Calling all PS thesis-tacklers, researchers, and students!

[choro72]

Delster and katamari, sorry, I have a bad habit of not elaborating. I mean computer programming. Most people hear "Astrophysics" and they think exciting telescopes and shiny pictures that the news publish. It''s actually tons of sitting at the desk, staring at the computer, being stuck at a stupid problem because I''m not a Computer Science major. Bleh.

katamari, is that a publication that I''m sensing? Congratulations!

wishful, Congratulations!! When will you know the result for the fellowship? That''s not boring at all!

Okay, new goal. Finish the first version of the program before the beginning of next week!

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 7/17/2008 6:14:45 PM
Author: katamari
Congrats on the Fellowship nomination, WishfulThinking!

This is the kind of thing that grad admission committees will love to see on applications, even if it doesn''t pan out. But, of course, I am hoping you get the fellowship! The reason I heard that outside people are ''easier'' for the defense is because their questions tend to be more surface rather than the deep, hard questions. And, this is refreshing in the defense. People always seem to fear the ''connect your thesis to what I do'' questions, but these seems rare, at least in our department. Also, sorry to hear about the sabbatical outbreak. That seems to happen in large programs, too. But, it sucks when you are trying to defend. What about someone in education? Does your school have an education program--maybe someone there focuses on sex education? You could also think of asking someone who just seems interesting but doesn''t ''fit the bill'' so to speak. Not that I am faculty yet, but I do think I would sit on a committee if my work was only very loosely connected to the topic if it was interesting. And, yours sounds to be. What does your advisor suggest? It seems that she is very supportive of you, so a good word from her might also bring in someone that wouldn''t seem like a logical fit. Good luck!

Katamari- Does that mean you have a publication in the works?! YAY FOR YOU! That is so great!


Thanks for your comments! This is probably a highly stupid question, but is it appropriate to put a nomination like that on a resume, even if it doesn''t end up with a fellowship award? I am totally curious about this, and putting together resumes for grad school basically as we speak, so it is always helpful to know what people think about that!

Your ideas about outside the department defense members sounds right on, now that you''ve explained it more. I actually think I might luck out within Gender Studies for that, since this is very politically-oriented, and a lot of the department has more experience in history and anthro, rather than politics and current events. Perhaps that will work within my favor. I wish the advisor I have now would be my advisor the entire time I was doing the thesis, but she is MIA fall semester of next year, and will be stepping in as a 2nd chair during the Spring. She will be at my defense, for sure, and work with me in the final stages, but she is out for the time being, unfortunately. My "real" advisor is a little evil, but more unenthusiastic than anything else. Her focus is on gender studies and history, so I am sure she will be more interested in my account of Reagan and the evolution of the Welfare system than the [in my opinion!] more fun sections about social/political theory and current abstinence programs! Maybe her lack of knowledge will work in my favor, though.

I am definitely planning on drumming up some faculty support for my project come the school year, because I am getting excited, and thinking more and more every day that my contributions are worthwhile enough to merit some serious attention! Oh wow- a random boost in self confidence!

Choro- Thanks! There are a number of fellowships, and they will be awarded at various times throughout the coming academic year. Most are announced sometime around Dec, but there are some that go as late as May.

 

[Elegant]

Wow - looks like everyone is up to something productive!

Me on the other hand...

I finished rewriting two paragraphs of my lit review per my chair''s request and she wants the problem statement and purpose statement which I have not finished yet...

My motivation is seriously lacking. I sit here and just LOATHE it.

I am working on the problem statement right now though. Trying to push through the burn!

Keep up the excellent work you guys - you are doing fabulously!!!

 

[choro72]

Elegant, count me in for another motivation lacker. I stare at my computer and go for another round of ps dosage. Must...whip...own...butt...

 

[Elegant]

Date: 7/18/2008 1:35:20 AM
Author: choro72
Elegant, count me in for another motivation lacker. I stare at my computer and go for another round of ps dosage. Must...whip...own...butt...

You know what used to help me? I used to get a timer (I am a teacher so I bought this cute little chicken timer that sqwuaked whe the time was up)and set it for an hour and sit and do work for an hour. It worked! Where the heck is my freaking timer? Have you ever tried that?

 

[choro72]

Date: 7/18/2008 2:01:45 AM
Author: Elegant
You know what used to help me? I used to get a timer (I am a teacher so I bought this cute little chicken timer that sqwuaked whe the time was up)and set it for an hour and sit and do work for an hour. It worked! Where the heck is my freaking timer? Have you ever tried that?

Oh gosh, I have, but not since I was in grade school! Thanks, I should start on that again.

 

[pjean]

Hi, sorry to be MIA for so long. A belated "Yay, Gwen!" if you''re still checking this thread.

I also just moved, and am still unearthing things from boxes, but mostly I''m just not really getting anything done vis a vis graduating, so I don''t like posting here. It means I have to think about goals and things.

Between cascading political mayhem on my thesis committee (I''ve gone from 4 members to 6, then 4 but a different 4, then 5 and now am down to 3, all in the last couple of weeks) and an experimental road block (the lab''s stocks of a cell line I need appear to be contaminated, for any biologists on the list; that discovery makes me very popular with the people who''ve somehow been using them over the last 2 years), and the longest sentence ever in the history of the internet, progress is slow.

But: I have a loverly new condo to share with my FI. I have experiments planned for 2 days next week. My thesis committee chair seems to have negotiated some political peace. Maybe next week will be a better week.

For now, hi to all the new people on the thread. Keep up the progress so that I have someone to look up to!

 

[Elegant]

Hi pjean!

No progress here today either...I am such the slacker.

But I did buy new contacts, ordered a new cell phone, and came to the conclusion that I will not get an anniversary ring from my bf and I think I am okay with that...I am at peace, and that right there is priceless. That was the reason why I ended up here at PS...I was searching for a ring. I am happy I found this place even though I won''t get a ring. I have also been working out regularly and trying to get myself into shape - I have been walking one hour each day, 4 times a week. I am starting to walk for 30 minutes and then progressively try to jog the rest of the 30 minutes slowly but surely.

This week I did make some edits on my lit review per my chair''s request, and I plan on working on it this weekend. I really do need to buy a timer because in actuality, it really does work for me...even though I don''t have my chicken timer, I will have to buy another one and make do.

 

[katamari]

Thanks everyone for the congrats! I am very excited and hope that it results in a publication. Of course, now I just sit and wait 6 months for the reviews to come back in. But, you will all keep me motivated to move on to another paper during this time, right?

Wishful: YES! YES! YES! You should absolutely put this nomination on your resume, your vita, your graduate applications, etc. When you are trying to make the transition into life after undergrad, you are making the jump from big fish in a small pond to small fish in a big pond. So, anything you have to distinguish yourself from others is crucial. You should also be very proud of this an own it! You have been hinting on here that it may not result in the award, but you need to confidently state that you are being recognized for scholastic excellence. Stop being such a woman about it

(This last remark is total gender humor, by the way, so I hope it comes across this way).

Choro: I did totally think you were in Computers for some reason. I love that you do Astrophysics, though. That is awesome. My BF has a shirt that says "Guns don''t kill people. Physics kill people." I totally love lame academic humor, so I thought that I would pass that on. I also second Elegant''s comment about the timer. It is lame, but I totally time everything I do. And I find it to be very helpful. It also, for me, creates that sense of urgency that gets my butt going

. I give myself two hours to write every day. The first hour I just kind of sit there feeling sick and blank. But, once it gets to under 59 minutes, I start panicking and become productive. Weird, but it works.

Elegant: Congrats on getting all the life-stuff taken care of. That is a great accomplishment in itself! I always take "life days" or "life couple-days" here and there, because academics do have to be humans, too! And, working out is so hard for me in the summer (I hate heat!), so I am totally jealous you have been sticking to your walking routine. You have motivated me to go to the gym (tomorrow, of course).

Pjean: Glad to hear that the committee drama is working itself out a little! Just give them some fantastic work that they will be fighting over the co-author for

Keep up the good work everyone!

 

[WishfulThinking]

Elegant- Another congrats from me about getting "life stuff" done. As weird as it seems, you''ve motivated me to do some of my own life stuff that I have been procrastinating on... along with everything else I have been supposed to be doing. I have to register for an LSAT prep course so I don''t flunk out the logic games section

, call the state park about reservations for a day-pass to have the wedding

, schedule an eye doctor appointment, etc. Ugh. Sorry, you probably didn''t want a list and accompanying emotes, but maybe I just organized myself sufficiently? I should try the timer thing, it sounds like it might be helpful.

katamari- It is so cool to get some perspective about what to put on apps. and all that. I sometimes feel lost and stupid when it comes to stuff like that, as I obviously don''t have a ton of experience with it, which is probably clear from my posts.

I also need to stop being ridiculous about everything, including my accomplishments. I am so down on myself! I am not sure what is wrong with me and my accomplishments. I used to be so secure and admittedly arrogant

about all my "impressive" achievements in highschool, and when I got into a really great college, I felt like I wasn''t good enough. I bombed my first semester, took a medical leave after a crazy mental health breakdown, was out of school for a semester, did a semester at community college, came back in Spring 2007, and have absolutely ROCKED OUT the 3 semesters I have been back, more than I ever could have imagined. You''d think an awesome transcript from community college, overcoming all my emotional obstacles, and doing so well upon my return might give me a boost, but somehow it hasn''t at all sunk in. Now I spend a lot of time being bitter about the CC thing, irritated that my GPA didn''t transfer and feeling like my accomplishments there were worthless because I found it to be so unchallenging, and down about how my first semester in college ruined what would be an even better than my pretty good [good enough to get the lesser form of academic honors] GPA, and just overall critical of myself. I just just written a small novel about my life, for which I apologize, but I feel SO DOWN [it even needed caps

] right now, and have for a few days.
By the way, I loved the satirical gender comment. I can tell from your other posts [especially in dockman''s thread- I loved your post!] and academic background exactly what you mean by it, so no worries!


As for myself... I finished my formal summer work, like I said in a previous post, but haven''t gotten my grade for it yet, which I am SO paranoid about it, as it is the last grade that will be on my transcript and contributing to my GPA before I apply to grad schools and fellowship opportunities, and I really hope my advisor will give me an A. It''s even pretty dumb that I worry about it, since I''ve taken multiple classes with this prof. and she has always loved everything I do. Plus I asked her about 8,000 times whether I was meeting her expectations for this summer work and doing enough to earn the credits [I told you I was paranoid!] I am working toward. However, she did forget somewhere along the way that we changed the study from 2 credits to 3 partway through the study, and told me in an email that I was doing more than enough for my two credits, so I basically had a heart attack and emailed her back reminding her it was 3 credits and that I hoped I was still doing enough! Of course, her saying I was doing more than enough likely means I am doing well for the 3 credits, but for some reason my brain won''t work that way and think logically for once.

She is also REALLY busy and running into some sort of problem with her PhD thesis that she is almost finished with that I haven''t gotten an opportunity to talk to her about, so I feel bad that this is the time she needs to grade me and check over my written work right now. She has been sort of spotty answering emails. The typical [in my experience] prof. stuff like writing back really short responses and sometimes not responding to my questions. She has turned in the grade to the registrar, but in her email telling me that she didn''t tell me my grade, which I think she might have done on purpose because she always teases me about being so grade-oriented, which is SO BAD and a stupid habit, but my paranoia is thinking she might not have wanted to tell me herself because she didn''t give me an A and is worried I will be upset because I always do so well in her classes. I will know I think tomorrow what I got. And how much my GPA went up... I hope.

I also feel sort of blah and under the weather and down about stuff. I did get As in both my summer classes, which is good I guess, but not much of an accomplishment considering how ridiculously easy they are. I am taking a break from doing thesis stuff for a week or so, because otherwise I think I am going to die. I also have so much other stuff to do and register for and apply for and obsess over grad. school apps. and worry about how much it will cost to apply for everything, and wedding planning, and wedding budgeting and loans and...
Okay, so I am a little frazzled. And hard on myself. Even looking back at this post and seeing all the

s I have put into it makes me want to go back and delete them to kick some sense into myself, but they are so representative of how I feel right now that I think they need to be left.

Again, sorry for the novel as usual. I am a little short on outlets in the summer.
Good luck on everything, fellow students and researchers- you are all kind of my heroes and keep me motivated and on my toes! Not to mention helpful!!

 

[WishfulThinking]

PS: This is yet another question stemming from ignorance, but is it okay to put that you were a finalist for a major academic competition on your resume? Is this bad etiquette? What do you think?

 

[dockman3]

Hmmm, that''s a tough one. I don''t know if I''d put it on there unless I won it, but if its a major national thing, then that might be different. I suppose if just being a finalist is a big honor, which it is in most cases, then its worth putting on there. Just one line, "finalist for xxx prize". Nothing big or flashy and you should be ok.

 

[dockman3]

Hey everyone. Sorry I haven''t checked in here for a while. I''ve clearly had my mind on other things, as most of you know, since you posted in my other thread, but work is going slow. I really need to just propose so I can stop thinking about it and get my work done. Ugh!

As for work, its not too bad. I''m having trouble with the theoretical aspects of my problem right now, so I keep trying to put it off and do the experimental side of things. Problem is that I''m reaching the point at which I need the theoretical to guide the course of the experimental work. My goal this week to make real progress on the theoretical side. This is my last major hurdle to being able to write my dissertation, so here''s hoping I can make some progress.

A lot has happened since I''ve been on here, so instead of responding to everything that''s happened, I''m just going to give a big good job to everyone who''s actually been working and getting things accomplished. So good job everybody, and keep up the good work!

 

[AmberGretchen]

wishful - I really think you will be fine with your grad school applications. My experience (and that of many other people I''ve talked to in other top-10 programs) is that your enthusiasm for the work matters almost more than anything else, and you always seem very excited about and committed to what you are studying, so I am sure you will get in wherever you want to go

Dockman - good luck on your theoretical stuff. That''s awesome that its the last major hurdle before you can start writing

I, personally, am in MAJOR stress mode. I had a meeting with my PI the other day that under normal circumstances would be good - he told me to write up my data so far into a paper outline, and also to revise my thesis proposal to send out a new version to my committee. This definitely sounds like taking concrete steps towards being finished, but it comes at a very stressful time.

I have the first of three rounds of job interviews for a company I would LOVE to work with coming up August 5th/6th. I''m SUPER NERVOUS about this. The first round is a logic/math test that you have to ass to get on to the next round. Even though my math skills are generally strong, I''ve not done well AT ALL on the two practice tests I''ve taken, so I''ve ordered what are supposed to be the best practice tests, and I''ll just practice like crazy for the next few weeks. But its really stressing me out, because of how poorly I did to begin with

And even if I pass that, there are more stressful interviews coming in the next two rounds

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Hello everyone! I am Sarah and I''m an undergrad in my fourth year, but I wanted to drop by and say hello and give Wishful some info.

Hey Wishful!: Okay so I think what you are talking about is the LSAC UGPA thing. It would theoretically bring your GPA down if you have multiple schools/multiple transcripts. Mine will go down about .04-.05 I believe which sucks majorly, but hey nothing I can do. They also do play with your GPA, but don''t worry about it. There''s nothing you can do about that at this point, so concentrate on the LSAT. Use these next few months to do a little bit every night so you can knock it out in one shot. If you''re having a hard time with logic games, diagramming is key. However, don''t do too much of a diagram either. There''s simply not enough time. You get around 8 minutes for hard questions, and in the logic games section you don''t have to finish if you can get the other four sections correct. Oh and always remember to guess any leftover! Also, make sure you get your hands on some of the new reading comprehension questions. The test HAS changed. The new questions tripped me up a bit unfortunately. There isn''t a ton out there to practice with regarding those.

Anyway, just do your best that''s all you can do. After that, it''s all about the personal statement, reccs, work experience, extracurriculars, personal achievements/accomplishments, etc. Also, what state are you in and are you applying to any schools in CA? Sorry, I forgot! CA schools have a rep for being less than Pro-LSAT haha. It''s an interesting tidbit, who knows. I am not applying to any of them unfortunately.

FI will then be DH and he will have to relocate if I am going to..or maybe I should say when (one can dream) I am going to law school. If I can get into the same school as undergrad maybe not, but I doubt that''s going to happen.

On a personal note, I feel almost guilty for not taking it again and I can''t figure out why. I don''t want to. I feel relatively comfortable with what I have since I know I''ll get in somewhere..it''s just a matter if it''s where I want to go. I feel like taking it again would be futile unless I get about a 168-170. And I am not just randomly making this up. Admissions essentially told me that only doing that would increase my chances with them to more likely than a reach. So what''s the point? I guess if I wanted to go there bad enough I''d do it. Maybe I don''t want to go there as bad as I think? Who knows. Sigh. It''s so frustrating to all of the sudden "not be good enough" again. It really hurts my self-esteem, I just feel like in this pool of 177 and 3.8''s I don''t stand a chance and it''s ridiculous. I''ve worked my booty off in school and out of school, I am an integral part of the school, and I think that should count for something! It''s not that I feel like I deserve it, I am not one of those people. I just hope that by now I''ve earned it. I just want to help people and do something meaningful with my life. Anyway, sorry to get all negative, but I think you feel the same way.

But in your case, don''t feel too bad that you only get one shot. Depending on the school they either average your scores or look at the highest one. As I understand it, NO matter what..they see EVERY score. So while they may "consider the highest" they still see that lower score. And god forbid you do worse on the second try. People tell me this isn''t possible, but I respectfully disagree since it is logically possible. Haha logically.

I got VERY lucky with my logic games section, and I am afraid that won''t happen again. So while I may perform better everywhere else and more normally..I may perform so poorly in logic games for it not to matter.

Sorry for such a lengthy post!

 

[WishfulThinking]

Thanks dockman and AmberGretchen! I really appreciate both of your help and encouragement.

dockman- Good luck with the more theoretical aspect stuff! Good luck meeting your goal for the week and remember what you wrote here. If you get it done that will be a major hurdle for you.

AmberGretchen- Those interviews sound so killer and stressful. It sounds like they are chasing you a bit, so remember that you are more than good enough with your skills and simply have to work on the practice tests. It''s not *your* failings, it''s the stupid tests!

I''m a horrible test taker, so I understand that completely.

Sarah- Thanks so much for stopping by! You are a student, so more than welcome here. It''s nice to have a fellow future law student and LSAT taker/stressor. The UGPA thing is what I am talking about, yes. The multiple schools thing terrifies me, because I have transcripts from 3 schools. However, only the courses from the college I am getting my degree from count toward my cumulative GPA through my school. I am not sure how that affects it. My cumulative GPA that is on my official undergrad transcript from the college I am getting my degree from is in the good-high range, but not as good as I would like. I have two transcripts from other schools, one with 6 credits of summer classes at a 4.0 and one of an "overload" semester''s worth of classes with 18 credits and a 4.0. Maybe having multiple but good transcripts will help me? My college pre-law counselor is utterly USELESS. She knows nothing about UGPAs, and was confused and didn''t know what it was when I asked her. I know there''s not much anyone can do about it [especially since my GPA I have now is the final one I will have while applying to schools], but it is helpful to know what mine will be once it is adjusted to fit their weird scale.

I am definitely throwing myself into this LSAT. I just bought this ridiculously expensive prep course through Kaplan, and I know people who have had great results with it, especially for the logic games. Boy do I ever need help with those... ugh. The good news is that from what I understand, Kaplan basically has a [pretty unfair] monopoly on the most recent test prep info and now I have access to it too. My books are coming in the mail next week, and I can practice online, too! I am going to use the whole summer to prep and write admissions statements [and an addendum to explain to them my really awesome stuff about why I have a huge gap in my transcript

], etc, and I will add LSAT studying into that as well.

I am in MA, and applying to a bunch of different schools in different areas. I am looking at joint JD/PhD programs, or a masters if I have to go that route [aka: don''t get accepted to my fav. programs]. University of Arizona is top of the list because of their PhD in Social Justice which I

. Also, in no particular order, University of Arizona, Rutgers, American University, George Washington University, UC Hastings, UC Davis, University of Southern CA, and .... UCLA. I kind of wish. I am only looking at programs that have the areas of law I want to study and a masters or PhD joint program, which makes my options limited. That, and FI [who will be DW by Sept 2009] is applying to PhD programs in the fall as well, so we are picking schools that have programs we both like or are close to other schools. It will suck if we have to be long distance. Stressful! I am trying not to think about that, though. There''s nothing we can do but apply and hope for the best!

I think you probably feel guilty because you feel like you didn''t/couldn''t do your best the first time you took the LSAT. You have very high expectations for yourself and didn''t quite meet where you''d set the bar for. I don''t think that means you HAVE to take them again, but if your favourite school is telling you that they are a reach currently, that has to be really hard to hear. Do you mind saying what school it is? Only if you''re comfortable, of course. I think you probably SHOULD feel like you deserve an admission. You clearly have worked really hard and contributed a lot to your school. One thing I hate about law school admissions is that they seem to focus more on numbers than other non-law programs I have looked at. That kills me because I have made some impressive achievements, and they show both in my non-academic accomplishments, and clearly on my transcript as well. However, in order for that to count they do have to take my cumulative GPA [above average but not what I want it to be] with a grain of salt and check out the spiking progression. Fat chance.

Don''t worry about the lengthy post. I do it all the time! You sound a lot like me, and it''s nice to have your input and perspective about things!

 

[choro72]

Amber, good luck on your logic practices! I wish there was a way I can help you with that.

Last weekend FI helped me finish the first version of my program! Weee! I''ve promised that he will be acknowledged on my thesis

I''m about to call my PI and see what he thinks. Most likely it will be "Oh, how nice. Carry on."

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Hi Wishful!! I am home from my summer class yay!! Sigh. Things are behind so I don''t get to do my presentation until tomorrow.

I was all prepared, oh well. I am applying to GW and American as well! With all of the CA schools you might be in luck if the anti-LSAT rumor is true! Haha. I know I would be aside from being out of state. I am in VA, so I am going to apply to all the big VA and DC schools. I don''t want to get too far from FI and I know he could find a job in the DC area. If I go outside of the DC area he starts getting kind of screwed job-wise, but he said he''ll do whatever it takes. Man I

him. I feel like he''s sacrificed a lot for me already, so I told him if I don''t make it in on the first shot I want him to go to grad school and I will get a job. Then I will go to law school at some point later. There''s always part time as well (a bunch of the DC schools have part-time). Oh and I am also going to randomly apply to Yale! Haha. Apparently they are really unpredictable and will dip below their numbers occasionally if your essay just makes them fall in

with you. So hey, it''s worth a shot. That one won''t feel personally insulting at least! For undergrad I applied to Princeton and that was the only rejection I didn''t cry about. Hehe.

FI says I should go ahead and apply to Harvard, too, but I''ve read they are more about numbers.

Anyway, thank you for welcoming me here! It is so nice to talk to someone else who feels the way I feel. It seems like most of my friends have the same attitude I have toward myself..which gets old. Because while it''s nice to have high expectations for yourself to constantly be around people who expect the best or nothing gets tiring. I know going to law school in general is going to require an attitude adjustment for me. I''ve talked to Gypsy about this some. But hey, I''ve accepted that things will change and I''ll be compared to my peers moreso than I am now. However, I honestly feel like that''s how things are here anyway, but maybe I''m wrong. It certainly seems like my grades aren''t always just based on the effort I put out. I get so upset when I get a B+ in a class I aimed for an A in...it''s so frustrating 4tiuh4uth4uh!!!! An A- is okay..but a B+ ektbh43uithr4u bad bad! GPA killer! Phew now that that''s out of my system...

I feel the same way you do about the multiple transcripts thing. I transferred here from a smaller private school and while they told us our GPAs would go down..mine went up because I was at a hard school. I didn''t realize how much it prepared me for here until I got here. So that .04-.05 difference is going to really hit me I think with the UGPA. It''s so frustrating. But hey what can we do? They''ll see every transcript and hopefully look at the upward trend. A lot of schools claim they consider the type of major you had and school you went to as well, so hopefully that will help some?

As for the LSAT, aim for the 25th percentiles as your score minimum if you don''t have the GPA 25th. One 25th is better than 0, right? The problem is..and they probably won''t tell you this, but when they accept people below their 25ths it brings down their ranking. Bringing down their ranking costs them money, and that''s a serious issue. While I don''t necessarily agree with it, it''s the cold hard truth. So, if you are below either 25th or both you have to prove to them why they should take you for one of those few spots for people below the 25th. Does that make sense? I also feel like it''s turning into a numbers game, but hopefully they will consider our other factors at least some.

I plan on making my LSAT decision soon. Part of me feels like it''s already made, I am just scared to officially let it go. I go back and forth on it, it''s strange. Thanks for letting me vent here as well. Everyone just immediately says take again (except FI, my grandma, his grandma, parents, and my pre-law mentor). But it''s a gamble either way, and I am a person that likes the surest return for my effort/money. I don''t want to spend the money and the time unless I can guarantee it''s worth my effort and when it comes down to it I definitely cannot guarantee that. Going up one or 2 points would not mean anything, it''d be a total waste.

One last thing! From what I''ve seen looking at the LSAC database it appears to me that they do things in ranges, so if you don''t want to shoot for a 25th percentile as a target shoot for the highest range. There isn''t a big difference between a 163 and a 164 unless it breaks you into a 25th, but there is large difference between a 164 and 165. 165-170 is the range where every number starts to matter more. The 160-164 score range are essentially all the same aside from the 25th percentile aspect. A score of 160 or above will get you something maybe even a scholarship from a lower tier school, above 165 gets you something better and definitely a scholarship from somewhere, above 170 gets you chances at a top 5 school and many scholarships. Does that make sense? That''s how I see things anyway.

Here I go again with a lengthy post..I am going to go take a nap and come back later..I am going to think things over a bit more. That''s about all I do lately other than schoolwork is think things over. It''s very useful in the end I suppose.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Thanks wishful and choro - I''ve worked some more on them, and at least now I (mostly) understand the mistakes I made on the practice tests. My additional practice tests are in the mail (GMAT logic and quant sections are supposed to be the most similar, so I''ll study those like crazy). I don''t know what the bar is on these tests, but hopefully not too hard - DH went over them with me and agreed they are crazy hard. Funny thing is, I''m usually an excellent test taker, and I''ve never (please don''t hate me here) had to study very much to do well on almost any standardized test I''ve taken. But I''m trying to be as zen as I can about this (although its not really in my nature) - I''m going to do everything I know how to do, i.e. I went over the practice tests in depth and will do tons of GMAT practice as well, and then do my best to be ready the day of (good breakfast, good sleep, etc...), and then I guess if I don''t get it, it wasn''t meant to be. But believe me - I''m not nearly as calm about it as that sounds. I think the frustrating thing is, based on everything I know about this firm and also on my experience at the recruiting weekend, where we did a mock version of what you would do on the job, I KNOW I would be good at this, and that I would love doing it, and that I am a good fit for this firm. So it would really suck if this test was what made that not happen

 

[WishfulThinking]

AmberGretchen- Glad to see you are making progress, and you definitely have the right attitude in theory, even if it''s not easy to be that calm in "real life." I definitely don''t hate you for being a good test taker... instead I propose you take my LSAT for me! How does that sound?

Haha. Is the job purely based on the tests, or will there be other factors considered in later rounds? It sounds like you have real dedication and enthusiasm for the company and field, so perhaps they will get to see that at some point? I hope so! I hate quantitative evaluations. As you have probably gathered, I am a horrid test-taker.

Sarah- Speaking of tests...

The same thing happened to me with my summer classes and a presentation I was supposed to give! I ended the classes a few weeks ago, and I am so relieved. My profs were horrible [not my usual college] and unprepared. Sometimes I thought I knew more than them in the subject area [not their academic focus], which made it sort of uncomfortable. VA is a good place to be in terms of staying local for law schools! There are tons of great schools in that area and not too far away, so you likely have many options, even though I know the best of the best [which I think you are aiming for, and hence your disappointment with your LSAT score] are difficult to get in to. You sound like you have your act together, though, which is helpful. Your FI is a real sweetie for being so kind, loving, and understanding as you go through all of this stress and uncertainty. Applying to Yale sounds like fun! Here''s to hoping they fall in love with you! After all, you are very charming.

I am going to study so hard for this test, even if it kills me! [studying *and* a thesis... just kill me now...] I even started tonight as soon as they sent me the info to access the online portion of my classroom-based prep course. It was so exciting! I seem to be pretty decent at answering the logic questions correctly, but I get a feeling I am not doing them fast enough. You said 8 minutes or something? I will have to work on that to do well, but I am starting to think it isn''t as dismal as I originally imagined.

I, too, find it nice to have someone to talk to who I have stuff in common with and isn''t quite as crazed as the real world people I know. We are all doing senior honors theses [not required, but we''re ridiculous

] and trying to get into grad school, and take prep classes, and get 4.0s, and publish papers and run clubs... oh goodness. I feel like such a loser even talking about all of the stuff I am trying to cram into this year. How will I survive? My friends are collectively a total mess, and it irks me to hang out with people all day who reaffirm my suspicion that I will never be good enough to get in someplace good. They have the same perspective I do on all of this, which is fairly catastrophic, if you ask me. I will need the same attitude adjustment so as to avoid sudden death in law school. I went through the same thing in highschool, though, so I do know a bit about how it feels to transition to someplace where it feels like it is impossible for me to succeed.

I also have this HUGE hangup about a law class I took that I got an A- in, and I am afraid it will make me look incompetent to ace my other classes but not that one. I have 2 others I did very well in, though, so maybe that will make up for it? I try not to take too many, because I have been told that admissions people aren''t so keen on it, but I don''t know whether that is true. I just like to study it! They can''t blame me for that, right?

I definitely have to score in the highest percentile to get into the highest ranked programs I like. I am not even into the average gpa for Berkeley, so I am likely a fool, but pray I can score above their higher LSATs. In some alternate universe, maybe? They do claim they are really into soft factors and don''t think GPA and LSATs are the be all end all, which helps me out a bit. And they like experiences. Boy do I have experiences to share with them.

The 2 highest ranked schools on my list I am not into the median GPA, but somewhere around the middle I am solidly in the median, and then towards the end very much over the highest percentile, and I should score highest percentile for LSATs if my graded practice test from last semester was any good. This is good, especially since while I am paying attention to rankings, I am looking for very specific things in the programs, dual degree, focuses in specific areas, and some of the lower-ranked [still top tier] schools have programs I would absolutely love to attend and probably will be accepted to. I think I stress too much.

I completely know what you mean about knowing you''ve made the decision, but not wanting to admit it to yourself. I do that all the time. Actually, I love to try to trick myself into thinking or feeling things I clearly do not. It''s a pattern of behavior that is hard to break. People always say you should try again until you do your best or whatever, but it is a VERY stressful test, expensive, and a lot of energy that, in your case, might give you a lower score in the logic games and isn''t guaranteed to give you success. I feel the same way abut wanting things to be "guaranteed" before signing on to them. I am all about assessing worth and utility.

Thanks for the info and tips from the LSAC database... I need to check that out! I hope your nap was good and you feel better. I was finally productive tonight and made a huge spreadsheet with all the info from the schools I like [top 10, but I won''t apply to that many, I think] so I could compare them more efficiently. It is working wonders! I feel so organized- YAY!

 

[WishfulThinking]

I always knew I was a dunce at math, but am I the only person who has ever had serious issues with what 25th percentile and 75th percentile actually mean? I know what the median is, but I always for some reason thought the 25th percentile would be the higher scores, and the 75th the lower scores, but the admissions data I am seeing is telling me the opposite.

Someone want to tell me if this is right? This is UCLA''s admission info about GPA from class of 2010.
25th percentile - 3.54
50th percentile - 3.72
75th percentile - 3.85

Does that mean that 25% of people admitted had a 3.85 or higher and that 25% of people had a 3.54 or lower?

Sorry for the plethora of dumb questions the last few days... I think I am having a rough week.

 

[Delster]

Date: 7/23/2008 2:01:12 AM
Author: WishfulThinking

I definitely have to score in the highest percentile to get into the highest ranked programs I like. I am not even into the average gpa for Berkeley, so I am likely a fool, but pray I can score above their higher LSATs. In some alternate universe, maybe? They do claim they are really into soft factors and don't think GPA and LSATs are the be all end all, which helps me out a bit. And they like experiences. Boy do I have experiences to share with them.

The 2 highest ranked schools on my list I am not into the median GPA, but somewhere around the middle I am solidly in the median, and then towards the end very much over the highest percentile, and I should score highest percentile for LSATs if my graded practice test from last semester was any good. This is good, especially since while I am paying attention to rankings, I am looking for very specific things in the programs, dual degree, focuses in specific areas, and some of the lower-ranked [still top tier] schools have programs I would absolutely love to attend and probably will be accepted to. I think I stress too much.

WishfulThinking it really sounds like you are suffering from the dreaded over-achievers' blight and I do have sympathy. But I just wanted to alert you to though as to how it can come across to others, and I've highlighted the bit above that made me do a double take as I read your post. I would never in a million years get into Berkeley, heck I was rejected by our top university in Ireland TWICE (both for undergrad and postgrad). So by your logic above, I am a fool...

Now I know from reading your posts you are a caring and warm person and that you didn't mean it to come across that way, but just bear in mind that when you criticise yourself in those terms in front of others, you are, whether you mean to or not, applying those standards to them too. I've seen some students literally leave the room when academically successful students start the 'OMG I SO failed that exam' post-mortem type conversations. To a person who has never seen an A on a transcript, if feels like those straight-A students are mocking the reality that they are living.

But I do recognise that you're super stressed out and my goodness it sounds like you've got plenty to be stressed about! You've got an awful lot on your plate and I know the pressure to get that 4.0 in some schools in the States is just immense. Where I went to uni only two people in the last thirty years have managed a 4.0. So for us the pressure was just to get over the 3.0 hump and score that 2:1 degree. Hang in there, keep practising those tests, and do try to be gentle on yourself. Law school in the States is ridiculously stressful and you'll need all the self-gentleness you can muster to make it through L1 with your self-esteem intact!!! I don't know did I say it before but congrats on the award nominations, that's very cool. And yay for being organised!

Amber your plan sounds like a good one, but I know how hard it is to put the 'be zen' plan into practice when the last thing you are feeling is zen! The tests are about three weeks away, right? You have lots of time to practise. We are all rooting for you!!!




For me, I am plodding along and not really getting much done. It feels like I'm going round in circles. I have finally managed to wrangle a meeting with my supervisor later this week, I do not expect it to go well. It's a long story that I don't want to put on a public forum, but basically we're a bad match and have been mutually ignorning one another for the past year. I've been requesting this meeting for the last nine months roughly and now that I've secured it, I have no idea what to expect from it. Ughhh. If anyone has any advice or strategies for coping with a difficult supervisor-student relationship, I'd appreciate them! Switching is not an option, for many reasons that again I don't want to go into on a public forum.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 7/23/2008 2:41:17 AM
Author: WishfulThinking
I always knew I was a dunce at math, but am I the only person who has ever had serious issues with what 25th percentile and 75th percentile actually mean? I know what the median is, but I always for some reason thought the 25th percentile would be the higher scores, and the 75th the lower scores, but the admissions data I am seeing is telling me the opposite.


Someone want to tell me if this is right? This is UCLA''s admission info about GPA from class of 2010.

25th percentile - 3.54

50th percentile - 3.72

75th percentile - 3.85


Does that mean that 25% of people admitted had a 3.85 or higher and that 25% of people had a 3.54 or lower?


Sorry for the plethora of dumb questions the last few days... I think I am having a rough week.

Hi Wishful! I will be back later to talk more, but right now I have some reading to go over again. I wanted to answer your question really quick though (and it is not a dumb one, FI had to explain this to me..and when I start stressing he decides to explain it again). If I''m reading correctly (also bad at math), you''re 100% correct! The 75th percentile GPA means 75% of the people admitted had lower GPAs than those people (the 3.85 people). The 25% number means that 25% of the people admitted had lower scores than the 3.54 people. Also, note that often these reports (US News, LSAC, etc.) only say 99.9% reporting. What happened to the other .1%? I guess they get to hide it? Or maybe it''s to account for human error? I find it interesting to say the least.

Nice to see I am not the only crazy overachiever surrounded by other crazy overachievers that are driving me insane.

I am going to miss one of my friends, but they''re transferring and I think that may be good for me in the end. They''re worse than me, and that''s not really good for me to be around if I can avoid it right now. I know people will be competitive when I get into law school, but to be honest I won''t really care. I will BE THERE..who cares if I get the A- over the A? So what! I don''t think I want a top 250 Biglaw job anyway. Just gotta make it there, you know? And I''ve read the same thing about Berkeley! Anyway, I am off to get back to work!

 

[Lauren8211]

Just dropping in to join the student brigade. I''m an undergrad senior, and I''m (SHHH!!!!) quitting my job in a month to go back to school this fall full time. I have six classes in fall, and six in winter, and then I''m done. I''m scared out of my MIND to take that many classes, but I am ready to finish.

Good Luck to all the others in here who are furthering their education!!

 

[AmberGretchen]

Wishful - please ignore my grad school comment earlier, as while I am sure that enthusiasm matters for law school, I know what you all mean about grades and LSAT mattering more. Funny about the LSAT - my dad actually always really wanted me to go to law school, and even after it became clear I wasn''t going to, he still really wanted me to take the LSAT "just to see how I would do" - he offered to pay for it and schedule it and everything. I think he was secretly just hoping I would do really well and decide I could get into a higher-ranked law school vs. PhD program. Unfortunately for dad I 1) refused to take the LSAT, and 2) got into several top-rated PhD programs...

In answer to your question, the test is really just the first round of interviewing for this company (there are three rounds total). But I''m much more confident about the latter two rounds - I can practice for those a lot, easily, which I''m doing with a group every weekend now, and even though I know they will still be very challenging, as you said, my enthusiasm can come through there. But I have to pass this stupid test to get there. I did talk to someone at the frm last night and she said when they were developing the test they had a lot of top people at the company take it too, and no one ever got it 100% right, so that made me feel a *little* better

Del - thanks for the good wishes, and also for your insightful comments. I think wishful and I are/have been in similar situations, surrounded by overachievers. Its good to be reminded, in a gentle and tactful way, that not everyone has that same experience and that we should appreciate how lucky we are once in a while.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Hello elle and welcome!

Also, Amber I am glad we''re not the only ones. Good luck with with the test!

 

[WishfulThinking]

Delster- OH NO! I meant that I was a fool to pay approx $100, app, scores, and all, to apply there when it is such a large reach for me! Not that I would be a fool if I didn''t get it, and neither would anyone else! It is darn near impossible.

I''m so sorry if I inadvertantly offended anyone! It was a poor choice of words. Thanks so much for all of your kind words and support, I really appreciate them.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Thanks for the overview! It really is so confusing. I know what you mean about missing a friend, but sometimes it really is better that way on a day-to-day level. I live in the dorms, so it is difficult to escape the people who stress me out the most, and who fuel my own stress.

It's funny, I feel the same way about law school. I wouldn't blink at MUCH lower grades that I am used to, what most people would consider just average or even below, if it were law school. It is a whooooole different ballgame once we get there.

I am more than prepared for that. I also need to keep in perspective that I don't want a biglaw job by any means. I will be perfectly qualified for and passionate for what I *do* want to do [non-profit, mostly], and that will have to be enough. Good luck with everything!

Delster- I hope you are able to work things out with your advisor. I know how insane that can be, and your advisor sounds especially tough to work with. I am not sure if these suggestions will help at all, but I am in a similar situation and my strategy is to get her to take me seriously and know that I WILL NOT back down no matter what she does or says. She doesn't believe in me, so this will be helpful. I am not sure of your specific issues with your advisor, but it has been working for me. The best I can do is show up overprepared every single time and hope that it is enough to impress her and convince her I am good.

Hi Elle! Welcome!

Good luck with going back to school full time. Quitting your job must be hard, but it sounds like you are making the right choices for you and your life.

Amber- Yeah... I took that with a grain of salt, since I figured people in this thread weren't necessarily aware I was going to law school.

I am looking at dual degrees, and I know my enthusiasm will impact my non-law apps, but I feel like law school can be such a numbers game, and I am not quite up to par. All I can do is try my best, reach for the stars, and if I fall down flat on my face at least I will have tried!

I am sending dust your way about the first testing round. I am *so* sure that your enthusiasm will shine right on through as soon as they interview you. You are so dedicated to it.


Just to clarify one more time since I feel so awful about it, I think I am a fool for applying to a school I am 99% sure not to get into when I have no money, other expenses to pay for, and other things to spend my time doing. It's a very labor intensive and expensive [well, to me $100 is expensive] process that is likely to yield little rewards. My opinion of myself wouldn't at all be negatively influenced if I got rejected from a school like Berkeley. I would be a little sad because they have the best program that I love, but getting rejected from Berkeley... is a literal fact of life for most students. I am so sorry if what I said came across badly. I am trying not to be so insane about everything, but the people in my life, my professors, and my college atmosphere are making that very difficult lately.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Wishful it didn''t come across badly to me, don''t worry! I understand what you''re saying completely. I tell people if they accuse me of being pessimistic that I am just being realistic. My chances are slim..0-25% at the top 10 schools. End of story. But even if you meet their scores 100% your chance never goes much higher than that! You never have a 100% chance of getting in. So don''t worry, I understood. Like I said before, I totally get the overachiever personality thing. I live in it 24 hours a day. I expect the best from myself when it comes to undergraduate academics. I expect near perfection and if I don''t meet it I am so frustrated. FI doesn''t really get why I berate myself over a B+/A- paper grade, but don''t really spend time relishing over an A. He says it''s unbalanced, but to me it''s because the A is what I was supposed to do why pat myself on the back other than to say yay I did it..and move on? Wow, typing that makes me see how silly it all is really I suppose.

Hmm..well I have a midterm to study for, but right now I need a nap. I will be back later.

 

[dockman3]

Ok, I know none of you will know what this means, nor should you really care, but I had to tell someone.

From my experimental data, I found that a constant of approximately 0.032 fit the data extremely well.

I went through some theoretical calculations today and my theoretical modeling yielded a constant:

1/(4*pi^2)+0.5/(8*pi^2)=0.0317

AAHHHHH!! You have no idea how long it has taken me to find this constant theoretically. This number, 0.032, has been staring me in the face for about a year. I''ve known that value since last Sept but was never able to justify why it was what it was. Today I was able to pour through the math and find this constant which matches beyond my wildest dreams. I thought I would get the number in the ball park maybe, but never anything that close! The 0.5 is still empirical, but I''ll find a reason it should be 0.5 soon enough. I''m just soo excited! My adviser is gone for the day, so I''ll talk to him tomorrow, but I''m pretty sure I''ve just about nailed it, assuming I didn''t make any mistakes, which is always a possibility. Anyway, I''m riding a huge high right now and hopefully this will hold up to my adviser''s scrutiny. I''ll let you know tomorrow what he thinks, but I think I''ve nailed it!

Ok, thanks for reading. I know I''ve been MIA on this post for a few days and I''ll catch up as soon as I can, but it looks like everyone is doing well. Keep up the good work everyone!