Bullying by adults towards adults.

[AGBF]

Jordy, I have never met you or your wife but I can tell you no matter what you did or where you went on your honeymoon, it meant the world to your wife because she had you as her husband.

We paid for our wedding and had just purchased a new home two months prior to wedding. We were too broke to go on a honeymoon. We took the week after the wedding off as vacation time and stayed home. One of the best weeks of my life.

Thanks Callie!! Same story here as well, our parents didn't pay for our wedding so we weren't able to afford a big, expensive honeymoon. But it would have been a waste anyway as we are like lovedogs and her husband; we went to a little cottage in the mountains and relaxed after the madness and drama that was in the buildup to our wedding. Lay around watching DVDs, hot tub, delivered hampers of food, everything else that honeymooners do

I guess the trainer felt like all her tri-annual, budget-priced trips to Bali have all been a far better experience than our relaxation honeymoon because she had to get on a plane!!

It sounds lovely, Jordy.

Count us as another couple like you. We were terribly poor. Our wedding announcement was in "The New York Times". Since we live in The US, if it had said we were going to have a honeymoon in Paris it would have sounded nice. Instead it read that the couple was going to honeymoon on Cape Cod and reside in Paris.

Well, Cape Cod is close to where my family lives, and we drove there in an old car with the remains of our wedding cake in the trunk of our car, giving it to people along our route and eating it ourselves. We stayed in a cheap motel and had a wonderful time eating seafood. (Cape Cod is a peninsula jutting into a bay of water that is quite cold in March, the month we got married.)

I am sorry that people were mean to you. You are so nice. You do not deserve to be treated badly!

Hugs,
(((Jordy)))
Deb

 

[Missy]

Funny that this thread has come up, the last time I remember being bullied was high school until recently when I started a new position at a new company. The company viewed me as a gold mine of information and experience but part of the requirement is that all staff go through a 4 week training induction for the company. At first I was being excluded and ignored by the 'young girl group' in our training (about half of the entire group) which is TECHNICALLY bullying but that didn't bother me, I couldn't care less about that. But then the trainer made some comments in front of the group about where I took my wife for our honeymoon in a very condescending manner and that did hurt as it hit me in one of my big weaknesses, my self esteem. It hurt because I cared more for what my wife thought about me as her husband and not because of what everyone else thought of me.

How did I deal with both? Well, I think part of the reason why the young girl group didn't like me was because I have prior experience in the industry and have been able to fill the gaps when the trainer had been unsure of a process (which she would ask me to do often), so I think they labelled me as a 'know-it-all' type. That doesn't bother me at all, when they come ask me a question they get a single word answer and no explanation for their own learning.

As for the trainer, she apologized to me for what she had said and tried to make amends (something I found hypocritical since the day before she was teaching the company's anti-bullying policies) but too late, damage done. I know that my wife was not at all underwhelmed about where we went for our honeymoon, but for someone who has had self esteem issues his whole life it was not something I could laugh at when it was said.

Jordy, some people really suck but you and your wife have an amazing love story and no bully or anybody for that matter can tear you apart and your wife knows what a gem she has in you and vice versa of course. See what I did there btw using the word gem?
And I mean it from my heart- you are a gem of a guy and a wonderful person and anyone can see that. (((HUGS))).


Arkieb, I am generally with you and prefer to give everyone I meet the benefit of the doubt and treat them kindly. Until they show me who they are and then I don't waste my time or energy. It isn't worth it (IMO) and you aren't going to be friends with everyone and you cannot be nice to everyone. We all have stuff in our life and it is not an excuse to be mean or behave badly. What SonnyJane wrote resonated with me. Pull a dog's tail enough times and he will (rightly and justly) bite you.

 

[arkieb1]

Missy - I have always admired your posts as the voice of kindness and reason, but I agree sometimes people are just A-holes, that for whatever reason feel better about themselves by putting other people down, by engaging in angry, rude and unnecessary behaviour, and no amount of tolerance, compassion or walking a mile in someone else's shoes will alter that.

 

[Missy]

Missy - I have always admired your posts as the voice of kindness and reason, but I agree sometimes people are just A-holes, that for whatever reason feel better about themselves by putting other people down, by engaging in angry, rude and unnecessary behaviour, and no amount of tolerance, compassion or walking a mile in someone else's shoes will alter that.

Thank you arkieb, and I feel the same way about you. (((Hugs))).

 

[redwood66]

Yes people are that way and I have a few on ignore for just that reason.

 

[the_mother_thing]

This whole "compare bullying to dogs" is a logical fallacy, laughable at best, and pathetic in reality. But since some want to liken themselves to dogs, and I am an analytical person, let's just run with it for argument's sake, shall we?

PREFACE: I don't personally believe all Pit Bulls are 'attackers' (my sweet, loving 'Donut' even has some 'pit' in her, we believe). But for argument's sake (and not to necessarily pick on Pits) they are noted to lead the pack in terms of attacks, and have the most stats available for them, so let's analyze ...

TLDR/In summary:
- Dogs may not be able to always control themselves, but (most) adult humans can, and should.
- Neither 'taunting' nor 'tail pulling' is on the list of 'triggers for attack', (but darn those Pits sure are easily 'provoked' by a lot of things having NOTHING to do with malicious intent, and the only remotely close 'provovaction' is 'discipline', which I assume means 'corrective action' vs 'abuse', or it would have said 'being abused'.)
- Provocation is not a justifiable 'defense' for attack, unless the 'level of attack' is commensurate with the 'provocation'.
- Dogs are 'defensive' by nature, and their behavior is quite unpredictable.
- Bully breeds should be spayed/neutered, clearly identified by signage (change your signature or avatar, perhaps?), require training, or should be banned altogether.
- Bully breeds are most likely to be euthanized.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sources for below: http://www.dogsbite.org
2016 fatal dog attacks by breed

Triggers that Prompt a Pit Bull to Attack:
being administered CPR
being an animal control officer
being a mail carrier
being a gas worker
being a landscaper
being a police officer
being a public works employee
being in a wheelchair
being pregnant
borrowing a blender
breaking the ice out of a water bowl
cleaning a dog crate
coughing in bed
disciplining your dog
driving a vehicle
dropping a glass
falling down
feeding the dog
getting a rabies vaccination
getting neutered
getting off a bus
getting out of your car
getting the mail
getting the newspaper
handing someone a phone
hanging decorations
having a dog on your lap
having a seizure
having a smoke
hearing an argument
hearing thunder
helping someone
holding a clipboard
holding a mailbag
holding a stuffed animal
hopping off a couch
jumping on a trampoline
letting your dog out
mowing your lawn
not jogging correctly
opening a car door
opening your front door
playing in your backyard
playing in your front yard
playing keep-a-way
playing on a playground
playing on a swing set
playing with a tennis ball
putting up Christmas decorations
putting on a sweater
reaching for your purse
reading a bible
remodeling your home
running from bees
saving a family from a fire
seeing a cat run up tree
seeing a dog inside a house
seeing a horse
seeing a squirrel run up tree
seeing a leashed dog
seeing an unleashed dog
separation anxiety
sitting on a bed
sitting on your spouse's lap
showing your spouse affection
sitting in a stroller
sitting in a tire swing
sitting in a wagon
sitting on your porch
slamming a door
slipping on ice
smelling "baby formula"
standing in your backyard
standing in your garage
stepping on an ant pile
taking down a Christmas tree
taking out the trash
the act of bicycling
the act of driving
the act of gardening
the act of sex
the act of jogging
the act of sleeping
the ice bucket challenge
the sound of clapping
the sound of screaming
tripping on a dog bed
walking on a beach
walking down a path
walking down a road
walking down a sidewalk
walking a snack sized dog
walking to school
washing clothes in stream
undergoing dialysis
unloading bags from a car
watching TV
waiting for a bus
wearing a ponytail

1The abnormal behavior of "dogs bred for fighting" is well documented. Page 133 of Lockwood's "The Ethology and Epidemiology of Canine Aggression," is an excellent example.
2In the medical study, "Pit Bull Attack: Case Report and Literature," the doctors note the "hold and shake" bite style of the breed and liken a pit bull attack to a shark attack.
3We also ran across one person who said she saw a pit bull attack a plastic statue of a dog in a PetSmart.

If you go to the site, these appear as links to a scenario for each incident.

Furthermore:
https://dogbitelaw.com/why-dogs-bite-people/provocation-the-myth

Provocation: the Myth
In dog bite cases, provocation is a defense. Generally, the provocation defense is often mentioned but rarely supported by the facts. (If your case presents a bite which occured during an attempted rescuer, see Legal Rights of Rescuers Who Incur Dog Bites.)

The provocation doctrine states that a dog bite is justified under certain circumstances, so that neither the dog nor the owner, harborer or keeper of the dog may be held responsible civilly or criminally. The facts that will be deemed to justify a dog bite are similar from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but they are not always the same. Generally, actions of the person bitten which would have triggered the doctrine of self-defense if the dog were a person are usually considered to be provocation. For example, hitting a dog and causing it to feel pain usually constitutes provocation. The dog's reaction to the act of provocation, however, cannot be grossly out of proportion to the provocative act itself. Wade v. Rich (Ill. Ct. App. 1993), 618 N.E.2d 1314.

And the Psychology of it all:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/decoding-your-pet/201412/dogs-dont-bite-out-the-blue

In fact, unless the dog is sick, all bites are provoked by something. A few considerations:

- The purpose of aggression is to put distance between the aggressor and his target (“I can’t easily get away from you, so you’d better get away from me”). It’s safe to assume, then, that most dog bites to people are based in defending themselves (fear) or the resources they care about (food, bed, human).
- People and dogs don’t speak the same language and neither is perfectly bilingual. This disconnect sometimes results in interactions which people consider to be “friendly” but dogs view as threatening. If your dog is anxious, a visitor bending to tie a shoelace might be seen as a significant threat.
- Understanding canine body language is helpful, but knowing your own dog’s “dialect” is most important of all. Be mindful of your dog’s reactions to people, dogs and traffic, near and far. We humans are sometimes so caught up in the surrounding environment and our own self-consciousness that we fail to look DOWN to watch our dogs’ eyes, ears, mouth, tail and posture.
- Dogs are often uncomfortable when people face them, stare, reach towards or above them, touch the tops of their heads, and loom over them. They don’t like to be cornered. They’re not great fans of being in a room (think: veterinary hospital or your own living room) as someone unfamiliar enters.
- Remember that dogs can quickly change their minds about interactions with people or with other dogs. Those who seem to accept “sitting visitor” might jump and bite “standing visitor”. If you’re even a little uncertain about your dog’s reaction, err on the side of caution and keep some distance between him and the person about whom he’s concerned.

Tips for protecting the population from Bully breeds:
http://blog.dogsbite.org/2010/06/cities-with-successful-pit-bull-laws.html

In 2006, the pit bull ordinance was enacted. The breed was not banned. Owners simply had to get them registered, spay and neuter them, get them microchipped, and post a sign about their dogs.

"The ordinance, approved by the Beaufort County Council in October 2015 and municipal governing bodies in subsequent months, requires that all pit bulls and pit mixes be altered in an effort to fight the overpopulation burdening shelters.

In September 2016, statistics showed that attacks by pit bulls were reduced by a factor of six since Sioux City adopted a pit bull ban in 2008.

In September 2015, a spokesman for San Bernardino County said the mandatory pit bull sterilization ordinance adopted in 2010 has cut pit bull admissions and euthanasia of pit bulls by more than half.

Animal experts: Don't blame pit bulls; training curbs dog attacks

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-county-news-sun/news/ct-lns-dog-attacks-prevention-st-1029-20151028-story.html

And not surprisingly, which breed of dog is most likely to be euthanized:


And for humor's sake:

 

[AGBF]

Having had an insane lab, I am interested in why they come in second to Pit Bulls in fatal attacks on humans (at least according to the site you cite). Is it because they are so numerous, or was the number of dogs in the general canine population factored into the statistics?

AGBF

 

[the_mother_thing]

Having had an insane lab, I am interested in why they come in second to Pit Bulls in fatal attacks on humans (at least according to the site you cite). Is it because they are so numerous, or was the number of dogs in the general canine population factored into the statistics?

AGBF

I think the numbers were based on number of attacks reported by breed, so there apparently are some reports where labs have attacked. I had a golden mix/flat coat who was as sweet as could be to me, my DD, and all people in general, but she would go ape-shiz on ANY dog that sniffed her butt.

Dogs - animals in general, really - can be very unpredictable, and IMO that is across any breed/type; not just pits, labs, etc.

 

[House Cat]

Having had an insane lab, I am interested in why they come in second to Pit Bulls in fatal attacks on humans (at least according to the site you cite). Is it because they are so numerous, or was the number of dogs in the general canine population factored into the statistics?

AGBF

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.php

This says "labradors and their mixes contributed to 3 deaths." Who knows what was in the mix? Who knows if those dogs were inbred. And lastly, who knows how those poor dogs were treated. They could have been tied to trees their whole lives.

I'm always one to give the dog the benefit of the doubt. People suck.

 

[kenny]

I'm always one to give the dog the benefit of the doubt.
People suck.

Bingo!

This is SUPER true of parrots.
"Oh that parrot is mean. He bites, screams and and hates people so the owners gave it away."

After zillions of years of selective breeding to please humans dogs of today are pretty forgiving of abuse.
Parrots, not so much.

 

[House Cat]

I'm always one to give the dog the benefit of the doubt.
People suck.

Bingo!

This is SUPER true of parrots.
"Oh that parrot is mean. He bites, screams and and hates people so the owners gave it away."

After zillions of years of selective breeding to please humans dogs of today are pretty forgiving of abuse.
Parrots, not so much.

I know this! The bird rescues are full of sweet babies that are harming themselves because they are in so much emotional pain!! Sigh. Birds are my favorite. I wish my home life were right for one.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I like mouthy-birds that cuss and and say sarcastic/funny stuff.

But I am not going to do research into them in comparison to bullying.

 

[AnnaH]

Jenn said

"It appears many proclaim to be tolerant & anti-bullying, except when it comes to differences of opinion, in which case, they assume a 'lynch-mob' mentality laced with unnecessary & inappropriate labels, rather than simply respect that not everyone is/thinks the same as them."

Very true.

Interesting that people who bully can be unaware. If that's not who they tend to be irl, then maybe they just don't see themselves that way. Or maybe, because it's online, they think it's okay. Don't know, just speculating.

 

[AGBF]

Having had an insane lab, I am interested in why they come in second to Pit Bulls in fatal attacks on humans (at least according to the site you cite). Is it because they are so numerous, or was the number of dogs in the general canine population factored into the statistics?

AGBF

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.php

This says "labradors and their mixes contributed to 3 deaths." Who knows what was in the mix? Who knows if those dogs were inbred. And lastly, who knows how those poor dogs were treated. They could have been tied to trees their whole lives.

I'm always one to give the dog the benefit of the doubt. People suck.

I agree that dogs rule. I protected my Lab (aka The Worst Dog in the World) from anyone who might want to take him away from me and euthanize him! He went to doggie jail once for nipping a jogger on the throat because he wasn't on his own property, but all the other nips he performed were on our grounds. He would "bite" anyone who came onto our front porch (or through our garage since one entered it in front) although mobs could come through the back door. The thing is, he never drew blood. He bit for the form of it. But he was 110 pounds and oversized and scary as hell (although he was pale yellow, not black). He grabbed the mailman's belt once and ripped the jacket off the man who came to install cable. But he never hurt anybody.Still, I had to put extensive protective measure (protective for the dog) into place. When I answered the door, he had to be put into the bathroom or held on a leash or I had to have a bottle of tabasco sauce (he feared that because I put it in his mouth as a punishment if he went to bite). He was an absolute trip. Did I mention he was a rescue?

When I looked at the things that triggered Pit Bull attacks, I saw that many of them had triggered attacks by my Lab. Like once, when he was enclosed in a pen at the vet's, an attendant sneezed. And he bit her. That was the only bite I recall him doing that wasn't to guard his territory. I think it was a reflex. Fear when enclosed.

Deb

 

[kenny]

I'm always one to give the dog the benefit of the doubt.
People suck.

Bingo!

This is SUPER true of parrots.
"Oh that parrot is mean. He bites, screams and and hates people so the owners gave it away."

After zillions of years of selective breeding to please humans dogs of today are pretty forgiving of abuse.
Parrots, not so much.

I know this! The bird rescues are full of sweet babies that are harming themselves because they are in so much emotional pain!! Sigh. Birds are my favorite. I wish my home life were right for one.

... and bless you for not getting a bird anyway.
Many do.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Adult bullies are just a bunch of hot air coming out of the wrong end. When people come at me in a bullying manner, I come back at 'em like a rabid Velociraptor. They don't try it a second time.

 

[Missy]

I'm always one to give the dog the benefit of the doubt.
People suck.

Bingo!

This is SUPER true of parrots.
"Oh that parrot is mean. He bites, screams and and hates people so the owners gave it away."

After zillions of years of selective breeding to please humans dogs of today are pretty forgiving of abuse.
Parrots, not so much.

I know this! The bird rescues are full of sweet babies that are harming themselves because they are in so much emotional pain!! Sigh. Birds are my favorite. I wish my home life were right for one.

... and bless you for not getting a bird anyway.
Many do.

I am totally with you Kenny, Housecat and Deb. Dogs and birds (and other animals) ROCK. Don't blame the animal OK. It's the people who suck and the human's responsibility. Period. For example pit bulls are the sweetest dogs but if they have a mean owner who teaches them to attack and doesn't train them properly then there will be trouble. Not the dog's fault but unfortunately the dog gets blamed.

And I agree. Birds need to proper care and attention and not everyone should get one. Just like not everyone should be a pet owner at all. Animals are NOT disposable to be thrown away when they are not convenient.

Adult bullies are just a bunch of hot air coming out of the wrong end. When people come at me in a bullying manner, I come back at 'em like a rabid Velociraptor. They don't try it a second time.

You are my idol Madame Bijoux. You go girl!

 

[HollyS]

I don't recall seeing adults bullied in real life. We did have a situation here a number of years ago where a group of PS posters formed a private group (I think it was on FB) and decided to target posters here. It was, imo, horrific. They would pile on a person they didn't like and fill the thread with insults. Some were passive-aggressive and some were adept at psychological manipulation. It was like being trapped in a perpetual jr. high school bully group. They were outed by one of their own if I remember correctly after a PS member who was benign and liked was forced off the forum due to the bile and vitriol.

Gee, that sounds like fun. Who needs that kind of bull poo in their lives?

 

[jordyonbass]

Adult bullies are just a bunch of hot air coming out of the wrong end. When people come at me in a bullying manner, I come back at 'em like a rabid Velociraptor. They don't try it a second time.

From blokes, no worries. Plenty of fire

Ladies........well, it's done different and after experiencing it recently I am shocked as I could not figure out how to handle it in a professional manner considering the environment. I guess the shaved head, beard and tattoos don't scare people anymore!