borderline personality disorder

[Ara Ann]

I have found all of these replies very interesting and have a question for the doctors who have commented here about BPD. I have a close relative who I believe fits into this category (especially with the mood swings and angry outbursts, suicidal thoughts and reckless behavior/driving), however had also been previously diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) and was not diagnosed as having BPD or any other disorder. How are the two connected? Can GID be a form of BPD, or could GID develop as a result of BPD? I ask this because of the unstable ''self image'' problem in both GID and BPD. I have always wanted to ask this, but am not comfortable enough to ask my relative something so personal.

 

[that_someone_special]

The thing that really makes me mad about people saying that all BPD are scary is that I don''t see it like "that".

I feel like we get lumped in with sociopaths. Not everyone that has a personality disorder is a serial killer (though, a lot of serial killers have narcissistic/ antisocial personality disorders + more). It''s like saying "old people that drive blue cars are bad drivers" but that doesn''t mean that all bad drivers that drive blue cars are old"... know what I mean?


All of the BPD people that I''ve met don''t hurt others (physically), only themselves. Mentally, to avoid abadonment things can be said/ done that can hurt others, and often times it can be intentional (though they don''t even notice it). But what is so scary? I''m not coming after you with a meat cleaver.

I really really really don''t think that BPD people externalize physical pain on others. So I''m confused as to what is really "scary" about a BPD person.


In my experience, my family was scared to tick me off, not because I''d hurt them, but because I''d hurt myself (and sometimes a door).

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:05:00 PM
Author: Ara Ann
I have found all of these replies very interesting and have a question for the doctors who have commented here about BPD. I have a close relative who I believe fits into this category (especially with the mood swings and angry outbursts, suicidal thoughts and reckless behavior/driving), however had also been previously diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) and was not diagnosed as having BPD or any other disorder. How are the two connected? Can GID be a form of BPD, or could GID develop as a result of BPD? I ask this because of the unstable 'self image' problem in both GID and BPD. I have always wanted to ask this, but am not comfortable enough to ask my relative something so personal.

GID and BPD are technically two separate disorders, but they definitely have overlapping symptoms and could be co-morbid (i.e. yes, she could have 2 different diagnoses as they can be correlated). I am not a huge believer in a dx of GID myself... But, her dx may be worth revisiting, especially if her GID was diagnosed a long time ago (it's usually diagnosed in childhood).

PS: I am not a dr yet, so maybe someone else with more experience will have better insight.

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:05:00 PM
Author: Ara Ann
I have found all of these replies very interesting and have a question for the doctors who have commented here about BPD. I have a close relative who I believe fits into this category (especially with the mood swings and angry outbursts, suicidal thoughts and reckless behavior/driving), however had also been previously diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) and was not diagnosed as having BPD or any other disorder. How are the two connected? Can GID be a form of BPD, or could GID develop as a result of BPD? I ask this because of the unstable ''self image'' problem in both GID and BPD. I have always wanted to ask this, but am not comfortable enough to ask my relative something so personal.

I believe BPD is often diagnosed with other problems as well, such as anxiety, depression, alcohol dependency/ drugs..... but personally I have not met anyone with BPD and GID- or heard of it? I don''t see why it couldn''t happen though.

 

[kama_s]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:12:00 PM
Author: swedish bean
The thing that really makes me mad about people saying that all BPD are scary is that I don''t see it like ''that''.

I feel like we get lumped in with sociopaths. Not everyone that has a personality disorder is a serial killer (though, a lot of serial killers have narcissistic/ antisocial personality disorders + more). It''s like saying ''old people that drive blue cars are bad drivers'' but that doesn''t mean that all bad drivers that drive blue cars are old''... know what I mean?


All of the BPD people that I''ve met don''t hurt others (physically), only themselves. Mentally, to avoid abadonment things can be said/ done that can hurt others, and often times it can be intentional (though they don''t even notice it). But what is so scary? I''m not coming after you with a meat cleaver.

I really really really don''t think that BPD people externalize physical pain on others. So I''m confused as to what is really ''scary'' about a BPD person.


In my experience, my family was scared to tick me off, not because I''d hurt them, but because I''d hurt myself (and sometimes a door).

Sorry you got the impression that people have a negative connotation to being BPD. With respect to the word ''scary'', I think it was used to describe intense behavior, and not scary as in horror-movie-esque.

That said, my mother would physically hurt others. She has. Plenty of times. When I moved out I was really concerned for my brother''s well-being. Even though he is REALLY big and very strong and has training in martial arts. So I''m not sure if you can say that ALL BPDs NEVER hurt others. Can''t generalize either way.

 

[Ara Ann]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:16:05 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:05:00 PM

Author: Ara Ann

I have found all of these replies very interesting and have a question for the doctors who have commented here about BPD. I have a close relative who I believe fits into this category (especially with the mood swings and angry outbursts, suicidal thoughts and reckless behavior/driving), however had also been previously diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) and was not diagnosed as having BPD or any other disorder. How are the two connected? Can GID be a form of BPD, or could GID develop as a result of BPD? I ask this because of the unstable 'self image' problem in both GID and BPD. I have always wanted to ask this, but am not comfortable enough to ask my relative something so personal.

GID and BPD are technically two separate disorders, but they definitely have overlapping symptoms and could be co-morbid (i.e. yes, she could have 2 different diagnoses as they can be correlated). I am not a huge believer in a dx of GID myself... But, her dx may be worth revisiting, especially if her GID was diagnosed a long time ago (it's usually diagnosed in childhood).


PS: I am not a dr yet, so maybe someone else with more experience will have better insight.

Thanks for the reply. The diagnosis was given about 2 years ago, but my cousin has had this gender confusion their whole life, so it wasn't a surprise. But I was curious about the lack of co-morbidity in the Dr.'s diagnosis (or maybe I didn't get the whole story from my cousin, who said there were no other disorders diagnosed) because when my cousin had an angry outburst (broke things, etc.) and had suicidal thoughts/depression, etc. they chalked it up to having GID and not not being able to 'fit in' with others and being misunderstood which led to frustration = anger. But in my unprofessional opinion, I would think the behavior and angry outbursts would correlate more with BPD than GID alone. Hope that makes sense.

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:22:12 PM
Author: kama_s

Date: 6/17/2010 4:12:00 PM

Author: swedish bean

The thing that really makes me mad about people saying that all BPD are scary is that I don''t see it like ''that''.


I feel like we get lumped in with sociopaths. Not everyone that has a personality disorder is a serial killer (though, a lot of serial killers have narcissistic/ antisocial personality disorders + more). It''s like saying ''old people that drive blue cars are bad drivers'' but that doesn''t mean that all bad drivers that drive blue cars are old''... know what I mean?



All of the BPD people that I''ve met don''t hurt others (physically), only themselves. Mentally, to avoid abadonment things can be said/ done that can hurt others, and often times it can be intentional (though they don''t even notice it). But what is so scary? I''m not coming after you with a meat cleaver.


I really really really don''t think that BPD people externalize physical pain on others. So I''m confused as to what is really ''scary'' about a BPD person.



In my experience, my family was scared to tick me off, not because I''d hurt them, but because I''d hurt myself (and sometimes a door).

Sorry you got the impression that people have a negative connotation to being BPD. With respect to the word ''scary'', I think it was used to describe intense behavior, and not scary as in horror-movie-esque.


That said, my mother would physically hurt others. She has. Plenty of times. When I moved out I was really concerned for my brother''s well-being. Even though he is REALLY big and very strong and has training in martial arts. So I''m not sure if you can say that ALL BPDs NEVER hurt others. Can''t generalize either way.

I''m sorry that''s very sad.

It''s hard to say though if it''s caused from BPD... though.. I guess I am not explaining myself correctly.

You don''t have to answer this, but I am curious, was/ is she also self destructive/ self harming?

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:23:08 PM
Author: Ara Ann

Date: 6/17/2010 4:16:05 PM

Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:05:00 PM


Author: Ara Ann


I have found all of these replies very interesting and have a question for the doctors who have commented here about BPD. I have a close relative who I believe fits into this category (especially with the mood swings and angry outbursts, suicidal thoughts and reckless behavior/driving), however had also been previously diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) and was not diagnosed as having BPD or any other disorder. How are the two connected? Can GID be a form of BPD, or could GID develop as a result of BPD? I ask this because of the unstable 'self image' problem in both GID and BPD. I have always wanted to ask this, but am not comfortable enough to ask my relative something so personal.

GID and BPD are technically two separate disorders, but they definitely have overlapping symptoms and could be co-morbid (i.e. yes, she could have 2 different diagnoses as they can be correlated). I am not a huge believer in a dx of GID myself... But, her dx may be worth revisiting, especially if her GID was diagnosed a long time ago (it's usually diagnosed in childhood).



PS: I am not a dr yet, so maybe someone else with more experience will have better insight.

Thanks for the reply. The diagnosis was given about 2 years ago, but my cousin has had this gender confusion their whole life, so it wasn't a surprise. But I was curious about the lack of co-morbidity in the Dr.'s diagnosis (or maybe I didn't get the whole story from my cousin, who said there were no other disorders diagnosed) because when my cousin had an angry outburst (broke things, etc.) and had suicidal thoughts/depression, etc. they chalked it up to having GID and not not being able to 'fit in' with others and being misunderstood which led to frustration = anger. But in my unprofessional opinion, I would think the behavior and angry outbursts would correlate more with BPD than GID alone. Hope that makes sense.

I guess my question is what would be the clinical utility of having an additional dx such as BPD. If she can receive treatment (e.g. therapy or meds if her dr. feels it's appropriate) for her anger and depression, than the diagnosis is irrelevant. So unless she feels lost and like the needs to know what is wrong with her - the additional diagnosis would be pretty useless.

 

[iluvcarats]

My mom is borderline. My brother is a psychiatrist and has diagnosed her with this. She has every one of those symptoms. She has very poor coping skills which made growing up with her very difficult. I am the youngest of 4 and we are all within 6 years. (That is hard enough for someone with good coping skills never mind poor ones.) She would vacillate between love and hate, kindness and rage all the time. We never knew what mood she was going to be in. She was very paranoid, very negative and verbally abusive to us all. The things she said to me stay with me to this day, and although I know that she is ill and probably didn''t mean what she said (it was her way of coping) I am forever scarred by them and struggle all the time not to repeat to myself the mean things she said. I grew up believing them, and they became my mantra. She doesn''t remember saying those mean things, and says she is sorry that she said them. That is one of the most difficult things about borderline pd - my mom sort of doesn''t live in reality. Her way of coping is to create a false sense of reality. I think it keeps her safe and protected. It is really ironic that people with bpd have abandonment issues because usually their behavior is what drives people to abandon them. Also bpd is so frustrating because the person who has it almost never realizes it. S/he thinks that the problem is with everyone else. It is a horrible disorder. If it was anyone else that had it I would empathize with them, but since it is my mom, the person who is supposed to love and protect me always and unconditionally, I still have a lot of anger and resentment toward her. I have a relationship with her, but not a close one. It is hard to trust someone with bpd. It is at best an emotional roller coaster ride.

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:23:08 PM
Author: Ara Ann

Date: 6/17/2010 4:16:05 PM

Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:05:00 PM


Author: Ara Ann


I have found all of these replies very interesting and have a question for the doctors who have commented here about BPD. I have a close relative who I believe fits into this category (especially with the mood swings and angry outbursts, suicidal thoughts and reckless behavior/driving), however had also been previously diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) and was not diagnosed as having BPD or any other disorder. How are the two connected? Can GID be a form of BPD, or could GID develop as a result of BPD? I ask this because of the unstable ''self image'' problem in both GID and BPD. I have always wanted to ask this, but am not comfortable enough to ask my relative something so personal.

GID and BPD are technically two separate disorders, but they definitely have overlapping symptoms and could be co-morbid (i.e. yes, she could have 2 different diagnoses as they can be correlated). I am not a huge believer in a dx of GID myself... But, her dx may be worth revisiting, especially if her GID was diagnosed a long time ago (it''s usually diagnosed in childhood).



PS: I am not a dr yet, so maybe someone else with more experience will have better insight.

Thanks for the reply. The diagnosis was given about 2 years ago, but my cousin has had this gender confusion their whole life, so it wasn''t a surprise. But I was curious about the lack of co-morbidity in the Dr.''s diagnosis (or maybe I didn''t get the whole story from my cousin, who said there were no other disorders diagnosed) because when my cousin had an angry outburst (broke things, etc.) and had suicidal thoughts/depression, etc. they chalked it up to having GID and not not being able to ''fit in'' with others and being misunderstood which led to frustration = anger. But in my unprofessional opinion, I would think the behavior and angry outbursts would correlate more with BPD than GID alone. Hope that makes sense.

I am obviously not a dr but I have met with/ know multiple BPD people and have heard very personal stories, and from what I read of GID it doesn''t make sense to me (so if anyone can clarify that would be great.) When they say unstable self image I think it means you think of yourself in much worse ways than "normal people", not questioning your sexuality and/ or gender. To me they seem like two different things?????

 

[Ara Ann]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:27:48 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:23:08 PM

Author: Ara Ann

Date: 6/17/2010 4:16:05 PM


Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:05:00 PM



Author: Ara Ann



I have found all of these replies very interesting and have a question for the doctors who have commented here about BPD. I have a close relative who I believe fits into this category (especially with the mood swings and angry outbursts, suicidal thoughts and reckless behavior/driving), however had also been previously diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) and was not diagnosed as having BPD or any other disorder. How are the two connected? Can GID be a form of BPD, or could GID develop as a result of BPD? I ask this because of the unstable ''self image'' problem in both GID and BPD. I have always wanted to ask this, but am not comfortable enough to ask my relative something so personal.

GID and BPD are technically two separate disorders, but they definitely have overlapping symptoms and could be co-morbid (i.e. yes, she could have 2 different diagnoses as they can be correlated). I am not a huge believer in a dx of GID myself... But, her dx may be worth revisiting, especially if her GID was diagnosed a long time ago (it''s usually diagnosed in childhood).




PS: I am not a dr yet, so maybe someone else with more experience will have better insight.

Thanks for the reply. The diagnosis was given about 2 years ago, but my cousin has had this gender confusion their whole life, so it wasn''t a surprise. But I was curious about the lack of co-morbidity in the Dr.''s diagnosis (or maybe I didn''t get the whole story from my cousin, who said there were no other disorders diagnosed) because when my cousin had an angry outburst (broke things, etc.) and had suicidal thoughts/depression, etc. they chalked it up to having GID and not not being able to ''fit in'' with others and being misunderstood which led to frustration = anger. But in my unprofessional opinion, I would think the behavior and angry outbursts would correlate more with BPD than GID alone. Hope that makes sense.

I guess my question is what would be the clinical utility of having an additional dx such as BPD. If she can receive treatment (e.g. therapy or meds if her dr. feels it''s appropriate) for her anger and depression, than the diagnosis is irrelevant. So unless she feels lost and like the needs to know what is wrong with her - the additional diagnosis would be pretty useless.

I just thought it could be important for treatment/therapy to have a correct diagnosis, because if my cousin truly had BPD and was not being treated for that and was being counseled for GID alone, then it may make a difference. I don''t believe my cousin is on any medication at all because they were not diagnosed with anything other than the GID...that''s my roundabout point I guess...perhaps they should be on meds for the other things, but is not, because of the GID diagnosis alone...

 

[Ara Ann]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:32:36 PM
Author: swedish bean

Date: 6/17/2010 4:23:08 PM

Author: Ara Ann

Date: 6/17/2010 4:16:05 PM


Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:05:00 PM



Author: Ara Ann



I have found all of these replies very interesting and have a question for the doctors who have commented here about BPD. I have a close relative who I believe fits into this category (especially with the mood swings and angry outbursts, suicidal thoughts and reckless behavior/driving), however had also been previously diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) and was not diagnosed as having BPD or any other disorder. How are the two connected? Can GID be a form of BPD, or could GID develop as a result of BPD? I ask this because of the unstable 'self image' problem in both GID and BPD. I have always wanted to ask this, but am not comfortable enough to ask my relative something so personal.

GID and BPD are technically two separate disorders, but they definitely have overlapping symptoms and could be co-morbid (i.e. yes, she could have 2 different diagnoses as they can be correlated). I am not a huge believer in a dx of GID myself... But, her dx may be worth revisiting, especially if her GID was diagnosed a long time ago (it's usually diagnosed in childhood).




PS: I am not a dr yet, so maybe someone else with more experience will have better insight.

Thanks for the reply. The diagnosis was given about 2 years ago, but my cousin has had this gender confusion their whole life, so it wasn't a surprise. But I was curious about the lack of co-morbidity in the Dr.'s diagnosis (or maybe I didn't get the whole story from my cousin, who said there were no other disorders diagnosed) because when my cousin had an angry outburst (broke things, etc.) and had suicidal thoughts/depression, etc. they chalked it up to having GID and not not being able to 'fit in' with others and being misunderstood which led to frustration = anger. But in my unprofessional opinion, I would think the behavior and angry outbursts would correlate more with BPD than GID alone. Hope that makes sense.

I am obviously not a dr but I have met with/ know multiple BPD people and have heard very personal stories, and from what I read of GID it doesn't make sense to me (so if anyone can clarify that would be great.) When they say unstable self image I think it means you think of yourself in much worse ways than 'normal people', not questioning your sexuality and/ or gender. To me they seem like two different things?????

The way my cousin explains the GID is that his inner image does not match the outward body. It's not a sexuality thing for him. It may be a stretch to say this image issue could be partially related to BPD and the kinds of image problems they face, but thought it just might be related. I'm trying to understand this too!

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:29:22 PM
Author: iluvcarats
My mom is borderline. My brother is a psychiatrist and has diagnosed her with this. She has every one of those symptoms. She has very poor coping skills which made growing up with her very difficult. I am the youngest of 4 and we are all within 6 years. (That is hard enough for someone with good coping skills never mind poor ones.) She would vacillate between love and hate, kindness and rage all the time. We never knew what mood she was going to be in. She was very paranoid, very negative and verbally abusive to us all. The things she said to me stay with me to this day, and although I know that she is ill and probably didn't mean what she said (it was her way of coping) I am forever scarred by them and struggle all the time not to repeat to myself the mean things she said. I grew up believing them, and they became my mantra. She doesn't remember saying those mean things, and says she is sorry that she said them. That is one of the most difficult things about borderline pd - my mom sort of doesn't live in reality. Her way of coping is to create a false sense of reality. I think it keeps her safe and protected. It is really ironic that people with bpd have abandonment issues because usually their behavior is what drives people to abandon them. Also bpd is so frustrating because the person who has it almost never realizes it. S/he thinks that the problem is with everyone else. It is a horrible disorder. If it was anyone else that had it I would empathize with them, but since it is my mom, the person who is supposed to love and protect me always and unconditionally, I still have a lot of anger and resentment toward her. I have a relationship with her, but not a close one. It is hard to trust someone with bpd. It is at best an emotional roller coaster ride.

I am so sorry to hear these stories, ilovecarats, and Kama_S. God knows parents have the biggest impact on our lives. Unfortunately, even though children expect their parents to be protectors (rightfully so), often times, they are far from it. They are imperfect too, just like everyone else. I am confident that over time, and with the experience of positive relationships in your life, you will be able to slowly moved passed the resentment. Not an easy task, I am sure... But sounds like you are both very insightful and strong women. You will be able to change your mantra over time (although it will probably take lots of practice!).

 

[that_someone_special]

Honestly I have no idea, but I am very fascinated in learning about these things. I''ve mostly read up on my diagnoses and a bit on the other PD, so there is still more for me to learn.

I know this is off topic now, but for instance, does EVERY transgender have GID?

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:40:56 PM
Author: swedish bean
Honestly I have no idea, but I am very fascinated in learning about these things. I've mostly read up on my diagnoses and a bit on the other PD, so there is still more for me to learn.


I know this is off topic now, but for instance, does EVERY transgender have GID?

Nope. GID is a dx diagnosed when there is a huge level of distress or impairment associated with gender identity confusion. Lots of transgendered people are very comfortable in their skin, and do not have GID.

 

[that_someone_special]

OK, that makes sense now.TY

 

[Ara Ann]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:40:56 PM
Author: swedish bean
Honestly I have no idea, but I am very fascinated in learning about these things. I've mostly read up on my diagnoses and a bit on the other PD, so there is still more for me to learn.


I know this is off topic now, but for instance, does EVERY transgender have GID?

Thanks for the reply!!! And yes, not everyone with GID changes their gender either. My cousin is married and has kids and plans to stay male, etc. I was just curious if there was more help for him other than a diagnosis of GID, if other meds could help the other emotional stuff somehow too.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:32:44 PM
Author: Ara Ann

Date: 6/17/2010 4:27:48 PM

Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:23:08 PM


Author: Ara Ann

Date: 6/17/2010 4:16:05 PM



Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:05:00 PM




Author: Ara Ann




I have found all of these replies very interesting and have a question for the doctors who have commented here about BPD. I have a close relative who I believe fits into this category (especially with the mood swings and angry outbursts, suicidal thoughts and reckless behavior/driving), however had also been previously diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) and was not diagnosed as having BPD or any other disorder. How are the two connected? Can GID be a form of BPD, or could GID develop as a result of BPD? I ask this because of the unstable ''self image'' problem in both GID and BPD. I have always wanted to ask this, but am not comfortable enough to ask my relative something so personal.

GID and BPD are technically two separate disorders, but they definitely have overlapping symptoms and could be co-morbid (i.e. yes, she could have 2 different diagnoses as they can be correlated). I am not a huge believer in a dx of GID myself... But, her dx may be worth revisiting, especially if her GID was diagnosed a long time ago (it''s usually diagnosed in childhood).





PS: I am not a dr yet, so maybe someone else with more experience will have better insight.

Thanks for the reply. The diagnosis was given about 2 years ago, but my cousin has had this gender confusion their whole life, so it wasn''t a surprise. But I was curious about the lack of co-morbidity in the Dr.''s diagnosis (or maybe I didn''t get the whole story from my cousin, who said there were no other disorders diagnosed) because when my cousin had an angry outburst (broke things, etc.) and had suicidal thoughts/depression, etc. they chalked it up to having GID and not not being able to ''fit in'' with others and being misunderstood which led to frustration = anger. But in my unprofessional opinion, I would think the behavior and angry outbursts would correlate more with BPD than GID alone. Hope that makes sense.

I guess my question is what would be the clinical utility of having an additional dx such as BPD. If she can receive treatment (e.g. therapy or meds if her dr. feels it''s appropriate) for her anger and depression, than the diagnosis is irrelevant. So unless she feels lost and like the needs to know what is wrong with her - the additional diagnosis would be pretty useless.

I just thought it could be important for treatment/therapy to have a correct diagnosis, because if my cousin truly had BPD and was not being treated for that and was being counseled for GID alone, then it may make a difference. I don''t believe my cousin is on any medication at all because they were not diagnosed with anything other than the GID...that''s my roundabout point I guess...perhaps they should be on meds for the other things, but is not, because of the GID diagnosis alone...

Yes, this would be a good point to bring up with your cousin''s dr. It would be nice if the therapist/dr could treat the symptoms as opposed to needing a dx of BPD. I guess it depends on the site where she/he is treated and the dr who is seeing her/him...

 

[Ara Ann]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:51:29 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:32:44 PM

Author: Ara Ann

Date: 6/17/2010 4:27:48 PM


Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:23:08 PM



Author: Ara Ann

Date: 6/17/2010 4:16:05 PM




Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:05:00 PM





Author: Ara Ann





I have found all of these replies very interesting and have a question for the doctors who have commented here about BPD. I have a close relative who I believe fits into this category (especially with the mood swings and angry outbursts, suicidal thoughts and reckless behavior/driving), however had also been previously diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder) and was not diagnosed as having BPD or any other disorder. How are the two connected? Can GID be a form of BPD, or could GID develop as a result of BPD? I ask this because of the unstable ''self image'' problem in both GID and BPD. I have always wanted to ask this, but am not comfortable enough to ask my relative something so personal.

GID and BPD are technically two separate disorders, but they definitely have overlapping symptoms and could be co-morbid (i.e. yes, she could have 2 different diagnoses as they can be correlated). I am not a huge believer in a dx of GID myself... But, her dx may be worth revisiting, especially if her GID was diagnosed a long time ago (it''s usually diagnosed in childhood).






PS: I am not a dr yet, so maybe someone else with more experience will have better insight.

Thanks for the reply. The diagnosis was given about 2 years ago, but my cousin has had this gender confusion their whole life, so it wasn''t a surprise. But I was curious about the lack of co-morbidity in the Dr.''s diagnosis (or maybe I didn''t get the whole story from my cousin, who said there were no other disorders diagnosed) because when my cousin had an angry outburst (broke things, etc.) and had suicidal thoughts/depression, etc. they chalked it up to having GID and not not being able to ''fit in'' with others and being misunderstood which led to frustration = anger. But in my unprofessional opinion, I would think the behavior and angry outbursts would correlate more with BPD than GID alone. Hope that makes sense.

I guess my question is what would be the clinical utility of having an additional dx such as BPD. If she can receive treatment (e.g. therapy or meds if her dr. feels it''s appropriate) for her anger and depression, than the diagnosis is irrelevant. So unless she feels lost and like the needs to know what is wrong with her - the additional diagnosis would be pretty useless.

I just thought it could be important for treatment/therapy to have a correct diagnosis, because if my cousin truly had BPD and was not being treated for that and was being counseled for GID alone, then it may make a difference. I don''t believe my cousin is on any medication at all because they were not diagnosed with anything other than the GID...that''s my roundabout point I guess...perhaps they should be on meds for the other things, but is not, because of the GID diagnosis alone...

Yes, this would be a good point to bring up with your cousin''s dr. It would be nice if the therapist/dr could treat the symptoms as opposed to needing a dx of BPD. I guess it depends on the site where she/he is treated and the dr who is seeing her/him...

At the time he went to his Dr. he said this guy was top in the field for GID (a specialist with gender disorders), so perhaps the Dr. isn''t the best for treating the other problems? But I am not in the position to suggest anything to him. He e-mails me often because it is hard for him to talk to other members of the family about things sometimes and I have become a confidante/sympathetic ear, but I would not feel comfortable suggesting his Dr. prescribe something for him...and he''s kind of sensitive about the whole issue and medication, he is offended at the idea of GID being called a mental disorder, he does not want to be considered mentally ill in any way shape or form...he believes this is just how his brain is and how he was born, so no in his opinion, no medication is needed or would help....which also sounded familiar to me, regarding the BPD trait of not wanting treatment and denying they have a problem.

 

[Arkteia]

Re. GID - it is a complicated thing, because there are many subtypes and probably we should not lump all this things together as GID but I truly believe that it is inborn and biologic thing, that people are "born" this way and that the rate of comorbidities is the same as in any other person. Another thing is, luckily, many groups, such as lesbians and gays, have now been accepted in the eyes of the society, but the situation is totally different for transgenders. I happen to know (socially - it is important given my profession) some people with GID and also some transgenders and guess what? It is very hard...they are not accepted or very marginally accepted. It makes people feel ashamed, angry, suicidal. I once spoke to a gal who used to date a guy with GID (he later had gender-reassignment surgery). She told me how unusual his room looked like. There were two huge walk-in closets running on opposite sides of the room, one of them full of male clothes, the other one full of female clothes. Do you understand? His life was cut in half, he was halved... It may be similar to "splitting" of BPD because in fact people with BPD do not only "split" the external world, they feel "split". But these are two different conditions, and comorbidity, at least in my eyes, should be random.

This being said, I know doctors who automatically label gays "male borderlines".

 

[Ara Ann]

Date: 6/17/2010 5:55:43 PM
Author: crasru
Re. GID - it is a complicated thing, because there are many subtypes and probably we should not lump all this things together as GID but I truly believe that it is inborn and biologic thing, that people are ''born'' this way and that the rate of comorbidities is the same as in any other person. Another thing is, luckily, many groups, such as lesbians and gays, have now been accepted in the eyes of the society, but the situation is totally different for transgenders. I happen to know (socially - it is important given my profession) some people with GID and also some transgenders and guess what? It is very hard...they are not accepted or very marginally accepted. It makes people feel ashamed, angry, suicidal. I once spoke to a gal who used to date a guy with GID (he later had gender-reassignment surgery). She told me how unusual his room looked like. There were two huge walk-in closets running on opposite sides of the room, one of them full of male clothes, the other one full of female clothes. Do you understand? His life was cut in half, he was halved... It may be similar to ''splitting'' of BPD because in fact people with BPD do not only ''split'' the external world, they feel ''split''. But these are two different conditions, and comorbidity, at least in my eyes, should be random.


This being said, I know doctors who automatically label gays ''male borderlines''.

Thanks for the further info Crasu. I can''t imagine having to deal with something like this on a daily basis.

 

[Lynn B]

Very interesting thread.

I happen to have a friend who has been diagnosed with BPD. The diagnosis was not made in a hurry - a very careful, caring, and competent psychiatrist took over a year before he finally gave that diagnosis.

It is very comforting and reaffirming to read about some posters here with BDP who are living happy, balanced lives.

I only wish the same for my friend one day. She's not doing so well and it is heartbreaking.

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:39:42 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 6/17/2010 4:29:22 PM

Author: iluvcarats

My mom is borderline. My brother is a psychiatrist and has diagnosed her with this. She has every one of those symptoms. She has very poor coping skills which made growing up with her very difficult. I am the youngest of 4 and we are all within 6 years. (That is hard enough for someone with good coping skills never mind poor ones.) She would vacillate between love and hate, kindness and rage all the time. We never knew what mood she was going to be in. She was very paranoid, very negative and verbally abusive to us all. The things she said to me stay with me to this day, and although I know that she is ill and probably didn''t mean what she said (it was her way of coping) I am forever scarred by them and struggle all the time not to repeat to myself the mean things she said. I grew up believing them, and they became my mantra. She doesn''t remember saying those mean things, and says she is sorry that she said them. That is one of the most difficult things about borderline pd - my mom sort of doesn''t live in reality. Her way of coping is to create a false sense of reality. I think it keeps her safe and protected. It is really ironic that people with bpd have abandonment issues because usually their behavior is what drives people to abandon them. Also bpd is so frustrating because the person who has it almost never realizes it. S/he thinks that the problem is with everyone else. It is a horrible disorder. If it was anyone else that had it I would empathize with them, but since it is my mom, the person who is supposed to love and protect me always and unconditionally, I still have a lot of anger and resentment toward her. I have a relationship with her, but not a close one. It is hard to trust someone with bpd. It is at best an emotional roller coaster ride.

I am so sorry to hear these stories, ilovecarats, and Kama_S. God knows parents have the biggest impact on our lives. Unfortunately, even though children expect their parents to be protectors (rightfully so), often times, they are far from it. They are imperfect too, just like everyone else. I am confident that over time, and with the experience of positive relationships in your life, you will be able to slowly moved passed the resentment. Not an easy task, I am sure... But sounds like you are both very insightful and strong women. You will be able to change your mantra over time (although it will probably take lots of practice!).

Growing up this way definitely taught me how not to be a mom. I really have learned from her mistakes. I never want my kids to feel the way I did as a kid, and if I was the cause of it I don''t think I could live with myself. There is such a loss having a parent who is mentally ill. It is almost a death, but the person is still alive. I guess I really felt like I never had a mother. Even though she is still here, she was never capable of being a parent. She was and still is very limited. I don''t think that she ever self realized. She is still that little girl searching for something. Mental illness is so frustrating because it is uncontrollable. If she was physically sick it would be easier for me to make sense of. Then we could all agree that she has an illness and work towards a cure, and have hope. But people with bpd usually don''t admit that they are sick. Actually, admit isn''t the right word because that would imply that she acknowledges she has a problem. She doesn''t. She finds problems with everyone around her.I know in my heart that I should be more compassionate, but she has betrayed my trust so many times. The one person I was supposed to be able to count on always went for the jugular. I don''t trust many people.

But I have been very lucky in my life. I always feel like I won the husband lottery

and my two kids are amazing. I wouldn''t change anything, because all this has brought me to where I am now and has made me who I am.

 

[Autumnovember]

I hate the stereotypes that come along with ANY illness. It drives me up the wall big time.

I really avoid "lumping" any group...psychiatric illnesses are actually to ME, very fascinating and interesting to learn about as each individual is different and can bring forth new information.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/17/2010 5:34:59 AM
Author: missydebby
Hey Sara,
wow! We have a term for those types in my profession - total as-hole!
I have Borderline Personality Disorder. I hear you on the second opinions. When I was 23, I went to a psychiatrist because I was having issues that were coming to a head. Would have been better to go to therapy and talk it out, but that''s where my HMO sent me. Anyway, after a 20 minute meeting, he was ready to prescribe me Prozac. I left and never came back... I couldn''t believe how quickly a doctor was willing to give me powerful psychotropic drugs.
It took me another 16 years of suffering before having enough confidence to go back and seek help. First I went to a therapist and we talked things out weekly for several months, before we even discussed the list of symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder. When I did read the list, I couldn''t stop being happy. I thought being sad all the time was just how I was built... didn''t even know there were any possible solutions.
Did you ever end up getting any helpful solutions?

Well, I am on Wellbutrin. It''s the only thing that works for me and it does work. At least for the depression and anxiety - although situationally it can still rear its head as it did around my birthday. Paxil and Zoloft are HELL on me... they make me quite literally catatonic AND I''m still anxious and depressed and very uncomfortable with additional bizarro side effects. Wellbutrin just makes me always feel thirsty. I don''t know exactly what chemical it is fixing in my head but whatever it is is atypical to what most people seem to respond to in the paxil family whatever its called. Kind of curious to me but I haven''t looked into it specifically. As for the ADHD stuff - the forgetfulness is greatly helped by external structure and cues like my iphone. I keep it on my body at all times and consider it the working part of my brain. The non-linear and egocentric stuff I have kind of learned to embrace with a sense of humor. I really need to get back to school. I was never intended to be a domestic goddess nor do I think I would make a good worker. I think the only thing I may be good at is staying in academics somehow. I can visualize some very strange concepts and have been wanting advanced degrees in physics and philosophy since high school - my niche. I''m really good at almost nothing else lol

Regarding your situation, I think it is an unfortunate and yet natural consequence that misdiagnosis can scare us away from finding a true dx. I don''t think there is an actual dsm dx for whatever quirkiness I have. I think I have some areas of myself that are pretty far out of norm but I don''t think they fit a predescribed pattern. I''m really happy for you that you have found your dx - that is often times the hardest part of the battle to find self understanding as a square in a round world.

 

[Autumnovember]

Date: 6/17/2010 2:19:42 PM
Author: swedish bean
I am also BPD with major depression (clinical depression), with SI tendencies.


I'm 26.

I've been diagnosed since I was about 15.

major depression kicked in around 18 or so?

I've been on at least 20 medications.

I went through a year of DBT + individual therapy (7 hours a week total).

It is the only thing that has remotely helped in the last 11 years. It didn't help with the depression, but it taught me 'skills' for when I feel the way that I feel.


I know exactly what you mean when you say you can almost 'feel' the anger. I can be fine and then something will happen that just puts me in a terror rage. I used to be really bad. I used to just destroy things, break things, anything to stop the 'feeling'. It usually ended when I broke something. I would then just sit and sob.. for hours. I've cracked bones in my hands before from slamming my hand on things, and I wouldn't even feel it. (And, well, that gets into SI behavior which goes much further than that.....)


sigh

This made me sad. Mainly because I can only begin to imagine how incredibly frustrating this is to deal with for you. My sister had something similar going on and it was so painful for me to watch her not be able to control her rage...and then watch her sob because I knew how much it hurt her that she was behaving in a way she could not even control.

Not being able to control your own behavior can be incredibly frustrating which is why I really do believe in cognitive behavioral therapy.


I'm not afraid of anyone who has any psychiatric illness. There is no reason to be. You're human, I'm human and we both deserve to be treated that way.

I should also add that a lot of times people misinterpret people with schizophrenia as being "violent" when actually, they aren't at all.

BPD definitely has comorbidity with other disorders and overlaps with many symptoms...but this is also true for MANY illnesses.

I'm also not DR, but I have studied abnormal psychology extensively/completing my BSN-RN for psychiatric nursing.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:39:50 AM
Author: radiantquest
I personally have given up on the psychiatric field. I have had many doctors over the years. Maybe they werent the right ones for me, but every single one of them gave a different diagnosis.


When I was younger as in 12-16 I was much ''crazier''. There was even a time I believed I could levitate. As I have gotten older I started to see doctors. One said that I was BPD. Had me on a whole cocktail of medications. Dangerous medications. I couldnt handle it anymore and stopped seeing that doctor. Then I saw another one that told me I was bipolar. Again, another cocktail. Less hazardous, but I still didnt like it. I was left with no emotion at all. It is one thing to try to keep someone from being drepressed and keeping that under control, but when you arent happy or sad that just plain sucks.


My most recent doctor has tried a lot of things. It seems that the older I get the more able I am to control myself. I dont know if the way I function is the same way others do, but it has been working for me. My most recent doctor kept giving me medications for anxiety. I told him that I am very angry inside. For all of you with a disorder this may sound familiar. I told him that I have a solid metal ball inside my chest. When something is aggravating me. (they are usually pretty small, but then anything fuels the fire) that metal ball starts to heat up and it grows thorns and moves around slowly. That is how I describe the anger inside of me. It spirals into such a fit of rage that I scare myself. I dont throw temper tantrums. I mostly keep my mouth shut and do what I have to do to get to be by myself. All in all I have given up on medications and when I become so livid I usually go somewhere that prevents me from harming myself and from harming others and wait out the storm.

I can relate to some of this - maybe not in exactly the same ways... more the impulsive part of adhd... and I have mellowed so much as I get older. In fact mellowed enough to have the clarity to see what my biggest issues are as a person. One of my absolutely best qualities as a person is that I am an excellent judge of character. One of my absolutely worst qualities is that I do not deal well with being frustrated. I am generally impatient but it isn''t an issue until I''m frustrated. It could be a song on the radio, the way someone is talking, the way my shirt fits, having the blankets wrapped around my legs - whatever it is the key for me is feeling frustrated. If I feel frustrated it triggers me so fast I just want to explode. I don''t feel the desire to hurt anyone and I don''t really feel anger per se - maybe I used to think I was angry but now I have it narrowed down to an ability to deal with frustration. And understanding that it isn''t the song on the radio and it isn''t the person who put on the song and that I''m not actually angry at them has helped hugely - now I can just see the little misfires in my head as pure frustration. I still haven''t managed to master DEALING with it but at least I''ve narrowed it down!!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/17/2010 2:37:37 PM
Author: crasru

Date: 6/17/2010 5:06:32 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
debby - when you say bpd are you referring to borderline personality disorder or as I saw mentioned a few times bi polar disorder?
My best friend since freshman year of high school is a psychologist. I was seeing a therapist several years ago and the guy was DETERMINED to put a dx on me. He suggested bi polar and something else (forget) and then schizophrenia and the last time I saw him he was literally telling me that my best friend didn''t exist or if she did that my relationship with her was misconstrued and I probably hadn''t actually seen her since high school and that I was imagining my relationship with her. I laughed. He said that my response was inappropriate and that I needed to take this seriously. I tried calling her on the phone but she didn''t answer. He started suggesting hospitalization and anti psychotics and I left and he was calling down the hall, ''Please reconsider what you''re doing is very dangerous.''
BOY did that mess with my head. I didn''t actually HAVE any of that but he definitely put doubts in my head. I got home, ''L was really exists - right?'' and he looked at me like I was nuts and I was like I thought so. I went and got wedding pictures and actually said this is L right and she is real right?
I went to a psychologist because I was feeling a bit lost and really all I needed was some encouragement to go back to school.... but instead he actually messed me up for a couple years. It took a long time before I stopped having spontaneous thoughts that maybe what I thought was reality really wasn''t reality. Now I know he''s an effing quack and I can''t believe I allowed myself to be susceptible to his suggestions. I don''t remember the words he used but basically an overweight uneducated housewife in Oregon couldn''t POSSIBLY be as close as I claimed to a successful san francisco psychologist - a psychologist! haha It''s just so full of irony. Not to mention she and I agreed that if one of us was going to be the other''s imaginary friend it was probably me that was hers lol
Needless to say my quirks actually fall more under the autism spectrum... I am not autistic, I am adhd but I am the true adhd and not just unable to concentrate... I have intense trouble being linear and a bunch of other things that go with it like a tendency to insecurity, unusual brilliance (I don''t mean unusually brilliant, I mean brilliant in weird ways), higher than average egocentricity, difficulty adapting to social norms which is usually preceded by obliviousness to them, and of course the usual inability to control my focus whether it be a difficulty to focus or a difficulty to unfocus.
In conclusion I am not any of the things he claimed I should be... and I worry about people relying on singular dx. I would get 2nd, 3rd opinions. It can''t hurt. He actually was triggering paranoia in me! ugh.

I am probably going to start threads about bipolar disorder but the next thread I am going to start specifically for you. As I have mentioned before, I have a son with Asperger''s but way before I had him, I loved treating people who felt they did not ''fit in''. Social anxiety, feeling isolated...different, as if you are staying behind the window and seeing a room there with people in it and you can describe what is going in there but you can not hear what they are saying so your understanding of their lives is not full...I do not know how to explain it better. It can not always be diagnosed...maybe ''atypicality'' is the best word. I often work with a therapist who, like me, loves this group of people and feels very supportive of them. She works with adults only. It is nice to know there is someone who feels like you.
As to borderlines - it is a difficult subject. I just wanted to raise awareness of the fact how stigmatizing it is in the eyes of mental health professionals, how easily it is given to people and how very few people want to work with someone with this diagnosis.

Well one of the things I''ve noticed is that everyone exhibits some oddity, let''s face it, we each have an unsharable separate perception of reality and that alone is very, very weird. Most of us can agree on certain aspects of it and this makes us feel normal, or at least not so alone. But sometimes the oddity makes it very difficult to function within the norms of society. I think that''s kind of where I am. I am sane, and to the largest extent completely normal even in my oddities... but there are a few things about me that even after years of learning how to adjust just don''t seem to compare with the experience that most people relate.

One thing I do know - I can pick other adhd people out pretty quickly and I vastly prefer my conversations with them over those with non-adhd people. My husband is EXTREMELY linear and we drive each other crazy. He is annoyed with the twists and turns and jumps and leaps of the conversations I have. I just want to crawl out of my skin to stay on one topic for too long. I can come back to a topic but when people are constantly reigning me in I just don''t want to be around them. I appreciate that it irritates them but I resent the implication that there is something wrong with me. To ME there is something wrong with THEM. Of course being in the minority I understand that how I see things isn''t the way everyone else does, but good lord, it would serve some of the super linear people to understand that not all minds work that way and that it is O.K. A little understanding, a little give and take can go a long way.

I know you said you were gonna start another thread but like I said I''m not very patient lol Plus as natural as it is (oooh possible epiphany coming up!) for me to be egocentric I have been taught for a very long time that it is WRONG to be such and attempts that I make to make everything about me make me feel bad about myself.

Like in my ring threads - it is VERY natural for me to make things "all about me" but the accusation that I am seeking attention is as far from the truth as it gets - seeking attention for attention''s sake makes me feel uncomfortable and I have been taught that it is wrong and socially unacceptable for so long that I even have a hard time inviting people to my birthday party....... INTERESTING... gonna have to think about this some more lol

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/17/2010 3:15:20 PM
Author: kama_s
I also fully agree that pychiatrists these days and seriously pushing pill-popping. I had a friend in university who came up to me for help because her father, a psychiatrist, put her on anti-depressants because she was feeling blue over a breakup. Uhh, that''s NORMAL. Depression is when you have prolonged, unusual bouts of sadness. Warranted feelings of sadness is normal human behavior! And hey, I''m knee deep in the world of pharma, so I really have nothing against drug utilization!

Also, MissDebby: Thank you for sharing your story.

There is a difference between long term chronic depression and episodic depression (not sure if these are clinical terms - they''re just my terms) For example, I have long term chronic depression issues that aren''t based on anything in particular but likely have to do with chemical (im)balances in my brain... but they were completely separate from the short term depression I got around my birthday that had specific reasons.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:12:00 PM
Author: swedish bean
The thing that really makes me mad about people saying that all BPD are scary is that I don''t see it like ''that''.


I feel like we get lumped in with sociopaths. Not everyone that has a personality disorder is a serial killer (though, a lot of serial killers have narcissistic/ antisocial personality disorders + more). It''s like saying ''old people that drive blue cars are bad drivers'' but that doesn''t mean that all bad drivers that drive blue cars are old''... know what I mean?



All of the BPD people that I''ve met don''t hurt others (physically), only themselves. Mentally, to avoid abadonment things can be said/ done that can hurt others, and often times it can be intentional (though they don''t even notice it). But what is so scary? I''m not coming after you with a meat cleaver.


I really really really don''t think that BPD people externalize physical pain on others. So I''m confused as to what is really ''scary'' about a BPD person.



In my experience, my family was scared to tick me off, not because I''d hurt them, but because I''d hurt myself (and sometimes a door).

I think the critical difference is you got help and were willing to. Although she never hurt me, it would not have surprised anyone if my MIL did. I had one friend of my mom''s make me promise not to sleep there because she was a social worker and really felt from what she had seen that I was in danger.

It is like an alcoholic to me. They have impulses they cannot control and nothing is their fault. The few who realize it is them and get help can be wonderful productive people, but will always be alcoholics. The majority who don''t can easily ruin their lives and those around them and never once think it is their fault.