Big Dog Owners - A Question

[tammy77]

I know it's not really any of my business, but I feel really terribly for my kids' German Shepherd. She's always been an indoor dog until last year when my ex husband decided that he didn't want to deal with getting up in the middle of the night to let her out to go to the bathroom. So it's now 30 degrees at night and he frequently leaves her alone outside from 7pm until noon the next day (or later) because he stays over at his GF's house.

I've asked him to rehome her. I've asked him to take her with him. I truly don't care that he's over there, in fact I absolutely encourage it because the more attached he is to her, the less concerned he is about the kids and my ultimate goal eventually is for my husband and I to have the kids full time. I think this upsets me more because my ex treats the dog AND the kids like possessions vs. living souls with feelings and needs.

So all emotions aside, am I being unrealistic or is this truly inhumane? Maggie (the dog) is about 7 years old now. She has a regular dog house, but no other protection from the elements. I would take her myself in a heartbeat but we can't.

Is this something that say, SPCA would be willing to come out to his house to either take her or at least talk to him about, or do I just need to stop trying to help her and hope that she doesn't get sick/die out there? I honestly don't see how a dog can survive an entire winter outdoors when the temp drops to 25-30 degrees consistently at night.

 

[Enerchi]

Please call the SPCA Tammy - if they don't know about a situation, they can't advise or act. That does not seem right. A dog is a companion animal and being left unattended for hours on end, does not say 'companionship' to me! That poor animal can't do anything for himself - he's a victim in this scenario. Please call and at least get some information... That's too bad you and your family can't take him in, but perhaps he'll see the light and allow another family to love the dog in their home. He's only 7, he's got several years of 'loving' left in him!

Good luck - let us know what transpires....

 

[Kaleigh]

The dog is the victim.. Wake up and put the dog in your house where it can be warm until you get this sorted out. It's your kids dog too.. Have you no compassion?? Do they want to see the dog freeze?? You said it was an indoor dog until he didn't want to take him out. What about you??

This time of year so many animals suffer...

 

[Kaleigh]

And it is your business because it's your kids dog who I am sure they love and adore...

 

[sonnyjane]

What's the reason you can't take it? Can you at least take the dog temporarily? I would get the dog INDOORS at night immediately until you can re-home if you cannot keep the dog forever. It's definitely your business because now you know there is animal mistreatment happening and if that dog should freeze to death.... ugh I shudder to think! Please act immediately. If you can't take the dog immediately, at least call the SPCA and inform them of the situation so that they can remove the dog immediately or issue your ex-husband with a citation that will make sure he provides proper care.

 

[tammy77]

Thank you for the responses. We got the dog before our divorce, about 5 years ago. He kept the house and the dog, I moved into an apartment because I just don't have the means to afford more at this point in my life. He let her stay indoors at night up until he got into a serious relationship with a woman that has a school age son, so she can't come to his house. As a result he is almost always gone at least 4 nights a week, regardless of the weather. He's been unemployed since he was fired (in his own words) in June of 2010, so 1.5 yrs ago. His parents are fully supporting him because he didn't get unemployment, so he also could not take care of Maggie if she gets sick.

There's a whole lot more to the story, but in the interest of trying not to cloud the issue I'm TRYING to keep on task. Trust me I want to rip into him right now for a whole laundry list of things.

We live in a 2 bedroom 1000 sq ft apartment with 2 kids, 2 adults, 2 cats, a bunny and a no dogs over 35 lbs policy (she's about 60 lbs and looks all of it +). If we had the finances to move to a place that would allow her, we would do it but even that would take too long. She needs help now. My ex said he would do the right thing, and up until yesterday I thought he was. I didn't realize he was just lying to me about it until the kids said Maggie was still outside only last night.

 

[sonnyjane]

Thank you for the responses. We got the dog before our divorce, about 5 years ago. He kept the house and the dog, I moved into an apartment because I just don't have the means to afford more at this point in my life. He let her stay indoors at night up until he got into a serious relationship with a woman that has a school age son, so she can't come to his house. As a result he is almost always gone at least 4 nights a week, regardless of the weather. He's been unemployed since he was fired (in his own words) in June of 2010, so 1.5 yrs ago. His parents are fully supporting him because he didn't get unemployment, so he also could not take care of Maggie if she gets sick.

There's a whole lot more to the story, but in the interest of trying not to cloud the issue I'm TRYING to keep on task. Trust me I want to rip into him right now for a whole laundry list of things.

We live in a 2 bedroom 1000 sq ft apartment with 2 kids, 2 adults, 2 cats, a bunny and a no dogs over 35 lbs policy (she's about 60 lbs and looks all of it +). If we had the finances to move to a place that would allow her, we would do it but even that would take too long. She needs help now. My ex said he would do the right thing, and up until yesterday I thought he was. I didn't realize he was just lying to me about it until the kids said Maggie was still outside only last night.

Please do the right thing. At least make a call to local animal authorities so that you know you've done something. This is not fair to that poor dog. When you make the call, don't get dramatic or personal - it might detract from how seriously they take your claim. Simply state the facts as you've witnessed them - that the dog is outside for more than 12 hours at a time in freezing temperatures. Something as simple as not having a fresh water source can get him a citation, and if the water bowl is frozen, that counts as water not being available.

 

[lulu]

I'd go get the dog right now and bring him home where it's warm. Dog's don't take much room, he'll curl up on the floor and go to sleep.

No one at your apartment complex will weigh him. You are equally responsible for this animal.

 

[tammy77]

Thank you again for the responses. I just called Animal Care and Regulations (SPCA directed me to them). They're going to go do a welfare check. Hopefully it happens quickly.

I can't bring her to my home, but I just looked up some info and I will buy her http://www.amazon.com/Lectro-Soft-H...KBCW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323475892&sr=8-1 within the week if the problem isn't resolved. It doesn't help her loneliness but at least she won't freeze.


Lulu, I am actually not equally responsible for her because she does not belong to me. I see where you're coming from, however I can't just take her from him. If I could, I would take her and find her a home. All I can do is ask him to re-home her (which I did), call for a welfare check (which I did) and bring her things like blankets, heated beds and heated water dishes. The expense of moving is far greater than those little items.

 

[Enerchi]

I'm glad you made that call Tammy - the dog will hopefully be moved to safer conditions now. So sad. People forget that a pet is for life. They are dependant upon their humans to provide them with the basics... and in 'dog world' that's food, water, shelter and some loving attention (unlike us PS'ers who would add DIAMONDS to that list!).

I hope it turns out well for him.... And really --- I'm so glad you made that call! Thank you again (speaking as a current doggie mom of 2, but have had a string of 5 dogs in total)

 

[distracts]

Big dogs can tolerate the cold fairly well, depending on the breed. I have a 60lb half Australian Shepherd/half Boxer, and until it gets into the low twenties, she prefers to sleep outside. I dunno, man, it concerned me at first but she seems fine, and since we have a dog door and it's her choice (she's got a bed in the mudroom that the dog door leads into, and a big puffy chair in the bedroom that is solely for her to sleep on) it's fine. In the midtwenties or lower though, and she doesn't want to be outside. But... we do have a dog door that leads into the mudroom. The mudroom door locks automatically and can only be opened from inside the house (good because the dog door is big enough for people to crawl through), so we can leave her out of the main house if necessary and she can still have a warm (or cool, if it's the summer) place to go, plus the yard for running around in. If this guy doesn't rehome the dog, he at least needs a dog door so the dog can go in and out on its own.

 

[AGBF]

Thank you again for the responses. I just called Animal Care and Regulations (SPCA directed me to them). They're going to go do a welfare check. Hopefully it happens quickly.

I can't bring her to my home, but I just looked up some info and I will buy her http://www.amazon.com/Lectro-Soft-H...KBCW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323475892&sr=8-1 within the week if the problem isn't resolved. It doesn't help her loneliness but at least she won't freeze.


Lulu, I am actually not equally responsible for her because she does not belong to me. I see where you're coming from, however I can't just take her from him. If I could, I would take her and find her a home. All I can do is ask him to re-home her (which I did), call for a welfare check (which I did) and bring her things like blankets, heated beds and heated water dishes. The expense of moving is far greater than those little items.

You could also pay off your rotten ex-husband to give the dog to the agency of your choice-and I would choose one that places German Shepherds in new homes and does not euthanize any. There are rescue agencies for every breed. You said that you did not have enough money to move, but that you could afford to buy a heated bed and water dishes for the dog. I say that you you should buy that dog freedom from a life in captivity. Let her go to a home where she will have more than a warm bed in a cold yard; let her have a warm bed and warm embraces, warm human kisses, the warmth of human kindness!

I am very serious.

Deb/AGBF

 

[justginger]

This topic is very close to me at the moment, because the rescue organization that I work for recently received a German Shepard in its care. Remo, is his name. Was his name. Remo was obviously once a treasured pet, as he knew how to walk on a leash perfectly, get into/out of the car, was housetrained, etc. However, Remo's owner slipped into mental illness and was no longer capable of providing him with proper care. NONE of the owner's relatives (who visited), or neighbors (who saw over the fence) stepped in to help.

The result? A dog that was so severely malnourished that he measured 10 CENTIMETERS across his backbone, could hardly hold his head up, and had half his body stripped of hair by mange. If you want to see for yourself, just Google "Remo - the strong one."

His owner actually died (I am unsure of how, but with his illness sort of assume it was suicide), and when his body was found 2 days later, the police discovered Remo. He was skipped over by the federally funded RSPCA (equivalent to the ASPCA), because he was a 'money pit.' Our rescue took him in and placed him in foster care immediately. Everything possible was done to restore him to health, many vet visits and hard work on the part of the foster carer, but sadly it was discovered that he had a fast growing form of cancer (a tumor in his neck) that would not respond to chemotherapy. He passed away last weekend, after having a month of wonderful, loving care in his foster home.

The moral of Remo's story? DO SOMETHING. It is unacceptable to allow an animal to suffer, especially one that your children have a personal connection with. Call MORE people, if the SPCA don't take the dog away. Research the rescue organizations in your town and explain to them what's going on. Find the local German Shepard club (cause there will be one, there always is for that particular breed). It is the responsibility of people like you, and me, and those neighbors who gave up when Remo's owner didn't consent to giving his dog away to FIX the situation. Persist. That dog deserves better.

 

[Enerchi]

oh justginger, what a sad story! I'm tearing up and getting all emotional! Both my dogs just got big hugs from me.....

Tammy, you have great support on this thread. Please keep plugging away at what is best for the dog.

 

[violet3]

You can also get a doggie igloo for her - they're pretty warm inside. I hope she's in better conditions soon - makes me so sad to think about her in the cold weather

 

[mrs taylor]

I'm a dog person and every dog I've ever owned was a rescue. My two current pups included. This story breaks my heart and is leaving me wanting to give your ex a swift kick. Regardless of whether or not this dog CAN stand the weather this is so far from being fair. It was a family pet, being given love, affection and companionship until something better came along. The poor dog is now cast aside. Dogs can experience depression as well and this is just not okay. I vote for paying off ex and getting that pup a proper home where it is cherished.

My neighbors across the street have a Husky who loves the cold. LOVES IT. It is out all day and pretty much every night (and I'm in New England.) I have approached them because I was concerned and it turns out that Lola has a doggie door. She can come and go as she pleases, and truly loves being outside. Some dogs are like that. But she has a choice. The one you are speaking of does not, and needs a voice.

 

[junebug17]

I'm a dog person and every dog I've ever owned was a rescue. My two current pups included. This story breaks my heart and is leaving me wanting to give your ex a swift kick. Regardless of whether or not this dog CAN stand the weather this is so far from being fair. It was a family pet, being given love, affection and companionship until something better came along. The poor dog is now cast aside. Dogs can experience depression as well and this is just not okay. I vote for paying off ex and getting that pup a proper home where it is cherished.

My neighbors across the street have a Husky who loves the cold. LOVES IT. It is out all day and pretty much every night (and I'm in New England.) I have approached them because I was concerned and it turns out that Lola has a doggie door. She can come and go as she pleases, and truly loves being outside. Some dogs are like that. But she has a choice. The one you are speaking of does not, and needs a voice.

I've been trying not to quote people as much and express my own opinion, but Mrs. taylor has expressed my thoughts so well I can't resist. I especially agree with the bolded part - that's that part that bothers me the most about this situation. What a drastic change for this poor dog. It's just not right.

I'm glad you're looking into this, Tammy. I really hope you can do something. Paying off the ex isn't a bad idea. And yeah, right now I'd like to give him a swift kick too.

 

[AGBF]

I've been trying not to quote people as much and express my own opinion, but Mrs. taylor has expressed my thoughts so well I can't resist. I especially agree with the bolded part - that's that part that bothers me the most about this situation. What a drastic change for this poor dog. It's just not right.

I wasn't going to look at this thread again, but obviously I did. I hope that it is not just a few of us dog lovers sitting in the front of the church preaching to the choir! In other words, I hope that we have not been so mean to poor Tammy that she has gone away with no intention of returning to see what else we have to say to her! I fear we may have crossed the line from supportive to harrying!!!

Tammy, if you are still reading, I am sorry that my own tone was aggressive. I just hate your ex-husband on behalf of the dog. I am sorry if I took it out on YOU!!! Please don't take it personally!!!

My Newfoundland, like the Husky belonging to mrs. taylor's neighbors, enjoys sleeping outside when the temperature is low. The difference is that now, unlike before he came to live with us, he now lives with a family not in a kennel. Now if he wants to spend the night outdoors, he can. If he wants to come inside, all he has to do is to bark, and we will open the door. If it is 17 degrees and he refuses to come in-which was often the case last winter-we know he is happy outside. Nowadays he often gets lonely even if he isn't cold, however, and wants to come in at odd moments. He's a family pet now. Maggie should have that choice, too. This point was articulated beautifully above.

Hugs,
Deb

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I struggled a little with this thread for the same reasons Mrs. Taylor mentioned. It's not exactly the cold that is my biggest concern, it's that the dog is obviously not considered a part of the family, which brings up a lot of OTHER concerns. Like AGBF, we have Newfoundlands...and it's not uncommon for one of our newfs to enjoy a nap in the snow in below-freezing weather. But it's completely the dog's choice. I know German Sheperd's are known for their uwavering loyalty, so I can't help but feel that she would be most comfortable inside with her pack.

If your ex is completely unwilling to rehome the dog or turn the dog over to the local German Sheperd rescue, would he at least be willing to install a dog door? It seems this would solve the problem of her needing to go outside in the middle of the night without disturbing him. Again, I'm concerned for a variety of reasons not related to the cold, but at least this one issue has a fairly simple solution.

 

[Winks_Elf]

It doesn't matter what kind of dog she is; the facts remain that up until recently she was an inside dog, used to sleeping in warmth and surrounded by people. She's also 7 years old, and German Shepards only live to be 8-10 years old, so she's in her senior years. It's downright cruel! Not to mention that she's coming up on the arthritic stages, ticks, and the whole loneliness issue.

Talk to him about taking over the dog. Doesn't matter than you cannot house her yourself. You can contact a German Shepard rescue that can foster her until she finds a home. There are a lot of people out there who would not think twice about taking a 7-year-old GS who was raised around children and house kept. If he says no and continues to keep her outside over night, call the rescue and they can observe her and make a case for removing her from the property if he is indeed neglecting her like that.

 

[lulu]

Tammy- did they do the welfare check?

 

[Puppmom]

What a tragedy. This just breaks my heart. I hope that you're able to help resolve this soon. I understand why this guy is your EX. What a piece of crap!

I'm sorry if you've felt picked on here. I think of a lot of *dog people* (myself included) get so incensed when these things happen. It's not an attack on you.

Keep us posted.

 

[monarch64]

My ex-husband was a horrible person but even HE would not be this cruel to an animal! I hope you get this all sorted out very soon, for the dog's sake. Good luck.

 

[QueenB29]

Stories like this infuriate me and break my heart.

Honestly? The next time I picked up my kids I would take the dog and bring her to a friend's house or a no-kill shelter. I wouldn't ask. Your ex-husband has obviously abdicated all responsibility for her. Who knows how else he's neglecting her. She may technically belong to him now, but since she lived with you for years, as far as I'm concerned, she's still your responsibility. Think about how sad your kids must feel to see their pet treated that way. It also sets a terrible example for them of the way a dog should be treated.

It doesn't matter how big a dog is or how well she can tolerate the cold. If the dog is raised as an indoor dog, then she is an indoor dog. Period. That dog didn't grow up tolerating the elements. She's not used to it. And even worse is the loneliness she must feel. Dogs are social creatures and German Shepherds are VERY smart. Trust me, she knows what is going on.

My husband and I adopted Belle, our yellow Lab, from a rescue organization specializing in Labradors four years ago. She was three. She had some behavior problems when we got her and had trouble remembering she was housebroken. Our trainer suggested keeping her outside during the day (just the day mind you). Yeah, right. She's so people-driven that we can't even keep her outside without us for 10 minutes before she starts crying. She would be miserable if we made her an outdoor dog and probably wouldn't survive very long.

SAVE THAT DOG. NOW.

 

[tammy77]

Hi All,

I'm sorry that I haven't responded. I've dropped by and read a few times, but I do have to admit that I am anxious about posting much for the very reasons that were brought up. I know everyone is just mad at HIM but he's not available to yell at, I do understand that point. I hope that nobody flames me for not doing more.

So a brief update. For now, shaming him to no end has done the temporary trick. I don't expect it to last, so I'm not going to just call it case closed, but she's doing better. I got to visit with her some and she actually looks healthy and in good spirits. She has a dog house with a shingled roof, and I brought her a thick blanket to go inside it for during the day. He's now bringing her in for the evenings.

As for the welfare check, because she looks fine and there was adequate shelter, food, water, there's really nothing more they can do other than the lecture that he so needed, and I'm sure will need again.

I am going to continue to ask around whenever I talk to friends and coworkers in hopes of finding her a better home. I looked at the GSD rescue group here as well. Ultimately I just want the best for her, but if I could give her that without taking my kids' dog away, I would really like to see that happen. If DH and I are able to someday move into a bigger place with even a small yard, we will take her.

 

[junebug17]

Thanks for checking back in Tammy - I'm glad things have improved a bit, I hope it lasts.

Sorry you felt a little picked on tammy - I hope my post didn't make you feel that way. My ire was directed at the ex, not you! I think it's nice you're concerned about the dog and are trying to make things better for him.

I just feel bad that the dog isn't getting much companionship. Just throwing out an idea here - would it be possible for you and the kids to "borrow" the dog so to speak? I don't know what your custody arrangement is, and I swear I'm not prying, but maybe you could take the dog for a day on the weekend so the kids could play with him, walk him, go to a park, etc. How often do the kids get to see/interact with the dog? As a mother, I totally get wanting to protect your kids from losing their pet, but at this point it seems like the dog is more your ex's than anyone else's (you mentioned the ex got the house and dog). I'm sorry if I'm over-stepping, these are just thoughts I had reading your post. I know this is a tough situation, lots of emotions involved here, never mind dealing with a difficult ex.

 

[tammy77]

June that's a very good idea. The barrier has been that the ex is rarely home if he doesn't have the girls, but I am going to ask him if he will leave his gate unlocked so we can "borrow" her as you put it, whenever we want. I think that's a fantastic idea. Thank you!

 

[AGBF]

Hi All,

I'm sorry that I haven't responded. I've dropped by and read a few times, but I do have to admit that I am anxious about posting much for the very reasons that were brought up. I know everyone is just mad at HIM but he's not available to yell at, I do understand that point. I hope that nobody flames me for not doing more.

So a brief update. For now, shaming him to no end has done the temporary trick. I don't expect it to last, so I'm not going to just call it case closed, but she's doing better. I got to visit with her some and she actually looks healthy and in good spirits. She has a dog house with a shingled roof, and I brought her a thick blanket to go inside it for during the day. He's now bringing her in for the evenings.

As for the welfare check, because she looks fine and there was adequate shelter, food, water, there's really nothing more they can do other than the lecture that he so needed, and I'm sure will need again.

I am going to continue to ask around whenever I talk to friends and coworkers in hopes of finding her a better home. I looked at the GSD rescue group here as well. Ultimately I just want the best for her, but if I could give her that without taking my kids' dog away, I would really like to see that happen. If DH and I are able to someday move into a bigger place with even a small yard, we will take her.

I am really glad to hear from you again, tammy. I am glad you have been plugging away, trying to solve this problem! I do wonder if the the better solution wouldn't be to work more on forming a liaison with the German Shepherd Rescue group you mentioned above and less on waiting for your life to change so that you, personally, can provide Maggie with a home. I have no doubt that you and your husband have a bright future and bigger houses ahead of you, but the truth is that Maggie may be too old to be a part of them. Much as we would love our animals to have human lifespans, they do not. Our dogs, especially our big dogs, do not live long enough to see our children grow up.

You started this thread by asking for advice from Pricescopers with big dogs. That's one of the things for which I qualify, although I have learned that my experience in handling dogs-despite having had them all my life-is minute compared to that of some Pricescope members! Luckily, here all the evidence I need to share is anecdotal!

My point is simply that I have a 19 year-old daughter and she has had three large dogs in her life already. Sequentially. When she was first born, we had a Golden Retriever. The Golden was in her later years. Then when she was in kindergarten we adopted an enormous, two year-old yellow Lab who lived to be 11. Now we bought a 16 month-old Newfoundland. Large dogs, most unfortunately, do not have really long lifespans. Although it is sad, Maggie has, in reality, already been taken from the children. She deserves to live with a loving family. She may not have many more years.

I wish you all the best with your struggles.

Hugs to you, Maggie, and your kids,
Deb/AGBF

 

[AGBF]

I just wanted to mention that I started typing what I wrote above this morning before June had posted. I had not seen her exchange with tammy when I finished what I was writing and hit, "submit". I see things are going in a different direction and it looks good to me! I just wish everyone well!

Hugs,
Deb

 

[Enerchi]

Thanks Tammy for the update! I hope it works out for the best - for EVERYONE involved - you and your new DH, your girls and for the dog. Being able to 'borrow' her could be a great solution!

Good to hear this news