Base closures!

[orbaya]

Around here they are closing Portsmouth Naval Shipyard which will cut 5000 jobs; cutting Brunswick Naval Air Station in half which means over 2300 jobs lost plus 61 civilan jobs; also the defense finance and accounting service at the former Loring Air Force Base in Limestone is closing...that move would cost 241 jobs. A small naval reserve center in Bangor would close with 7 civilian jobs lost.

Plus, Bath Iron Works just announced that they are getting rid of their 3rd shift so it''s not known at this point how many of those jobs will be lost. This state is falling apart and these closures are going to hit BIG TIME.

 

[MissAva]

I am so sorry to hear that. But no one wants to increase our military budget and this is what happened...these have been an issue for a while when Clinton went into office he cut 50% then anothr 30% of what was left. There just isnt any money left...christ half these people serving can get welfare beucase they are paid so little...and yet our senetors and congress people dont pay taxes and they our their remaing spouses once they die get paid the most$ that they ever earned. And again no taxes....

 

[Momoftwo]

Senators and Congressmen do pay taxes. The base closings have been discussed for a long time. The base closings actually are closing facilities and in most cases relocating the workers elsewhere. The closings allow money to be spent on other defense budget items instead of on maintaining multiple buildings and old bases. In the DC area the closings are consolidating offices, not cutting people. If shipyards are closing it''s because of less ships being built which has been coming for a very long time. This is not new. The peak of shipbuilding in the last 50 years was during Reagan''s administration. Since then, there has been less built and it has continued on that path and was planned that way for a while. A lot of what isn''t being built is because of new technology which means less large equipment is needed. BTW, my DH is a naval reservist, an O-6 who is a commanding officer of a reserve unit on the east coast. They''re dealing with cuts also and have had many meetings on how to do it and still be as effective. There''s no one person or agency or branch of government to blame. It''s a combination of factors.

 

[ForteKitty]

Government workers do pay taxes, but it''s not much. I''m taxed about 1/3 of what my friends w/ similar salaries are taxed.

 

[Momoftwo]

Date: 5/13/2005 3:46:18 PM
Author: ForteKitty
Government workers do pay taxes, but it's not much. I'm taxed about 1/3 of what my friends w/ similar salaries are taxed.

Excuse me? What are you talking about? I work for the federal govt. My Dh works for a private co. He pays more taxes because he makes more. Government employees do not have a different tax rate than anyone else. If they're netting less and make what you do, it's because of other expenses, like insurance, retirement accounts and investments and they're claiming deductions differently than you are. Someone with a larger mortgage, using their pre-tax deductions correctly and more charitable giving is going to pay less overall. That's a fact. But no one pays less because they're a govt employee. If they're military, they only pay taxes on their base pay and not housing allowances. That's pretty much the only break.

There are no special tax tables for government employees.

 

[ForteKitty]

That''s what i thought too until we started talking about salaries one day, and she said she nets a lot less than me. So we sat down and compared everything: Both single, head of household, same salary, same deductions, same % taken out for retirement & investments, but she is taxed a lot more. And I got more taxes back at the end of the year.

Maybe they screwed up on mine somehow?

 

[ForteKitty]

Date: 5/13/2005 4:03:25 PM
Author: Momoftwo

My Dh works for a private co.

I thought he was a Naval reservist? That''s not considered military/ gov''t?

 

[sjz]

Date: 5/13/2005 4:03:25 PM
Author: Momoftwo

Date: 5/13/2005 3:46:18 PM
Author: ForteKitty
Government workers do pay taxes, but it''s not much. I''m taxed about 1/3 of what my friends w/ similar salaries are taxed.

Excuse me? What are you talking about? I work for the federal govt. My Dh works for a private co. He pays more taxes because he makes more. Government employees do not have a different tax rate than anyone else. If they''re netting less and make what you do, it''s because of other expenses, like insurance, retirement accounts and investments and they''re claiming deductions differently than you are. Someone with a larger mortgage, using their pre-tax deductions correctly and more charitable giving is going to pay less overall. That''s a fact. But no one pays less because they''re a govt employee. If they''re military, they only pay taxes on their base pay and not housing allowances. That''s pretty much the only break.

There are no special tax tables for government employees.

Government employees pay taxes, just like everyone else. Sometimes they don''t pay into Social Security, though. My father worked for the USPS for over 30 years and never paid into Social Security. The Postal Service had a different kind of pension plan set up for their employees that was more of a government pension type of thing. The trade off is that my dad is not eligible for Social Security benefits. I think that maybe paying into Social Security is optional for some government employees. Some of the people my dad worked with over the years also had other jobs on the side where they DID pay into Social Security. Now that they are retired, they get BOTH their Postal Employee Pension AND Social Security benefits.

 

[Momoftwo]

Will an accountant or tax attorney please chime in and tell her that there is no special tax table for Government employees.

Same deductions? Same exact interest deduction for mortgage? Same exact charitable giving? Same exact everything? I highly doubt it. I dont' care how much you get back. That has nothing to do with your taxes paid. Look at the taxable income and the taxes paid lines on your tax returns. Is your taxable income exactly the same?

Do you both file the exact same forms? Are we talking state taxes or federal? Same state? Who does your taxes? Who does hers?

Oh dear! Do I have to explain with everything in the news about calling up reservists? A reservist is a PARTTIME weekend military "job". His full time jobs is as an engineer with a private company.

Social Security taxes have been taken out of every government employees checks for the last 20 or so years. Before that it was entirely civil service retirement with no ss benefits. It's now FERS which is why we have Thrift Savings Plan and ss.

This all got started because of somene saying congressmen and senators dont pay taxes. They not only pay taxes, they pay ss also.

 

[lost on 5th]

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=120507,00.html


Tax Tip 2004-40, Feb. 27, 2004
Military personnel and their families can benefit from several new tax breaks. The Military Family Tax Relief Act of 2003 allows, among other things, certain benefits and gains to be excluded from income on the federal income tax return. Reporting a lower income reduces the amount of taxes owed.





fyi. not lower tax. more allowable deductions. (as far as i can find)

 

[ForteKitty]

Date: 5/13/2005 4:16:33 PM
Author: sjz

Government employees pay taxes, just like everyone else. Sometimes they don''t pay into Social Security, though. My father worked for the USPS for over 30 years and never paid into Social Security. The Postal Service had a different kind of pension plan set up for their employees that was more of a government pension type of thing. The trade off is that my dad is not eligible for Social Security benefits. I think that maybe paying into Social Security is optional for some government employees. Some of the people my dad worked with over the years also had other jobs on the side where they DID pay into Social Security. Now that they are retired, they get BOTH their Postal Employee Pension AND Social Security benefits.

That''s weird because I do pay into Social Security. However, they named it something else, but it will be taxed and converted into SSA when i retire... whatever... i doubt there''ll be anything left by that time anway.

Good thing i''ll have my pension.... oh wait, that might be gone too...

 

[Momoftwo]

Date: 5/13/2005 4:22:48 PM
Author: lost on 5th

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=120507,00.html


Tax Tip 2004-40, Feb. 27, 2004

Military personnel and their families can benefit from several new tax breaks. The Military Family Tax Relief Act of 2003 allows, among other things, certain benefits and gains to be excluded from income on the federal income tax return. Reporting a lower income reduces the amount of taxes owed.





fyi. not lower tax. more allowable deductions. (as far as i can find)

The military does pay a lower tax on all of their income because they don''t pay taxes on their housing allowances, just their base pay so you cannot compare with total incomes when looking at non military salaries and taxes. They don''t deduct their housing allowance, it is never claimed nor does it show up as income.

 

[Momoftwo]

Date: 5/13/2005 4:23:16 PM
Author: ForteKitty

Date: 5/13/2005 4:16:33 PM
Author: sjz

Government employees pay taxes, just like everyone else. Sometimes they don''t pay into Social Security, though. My father worked for the USPS for over 30 years and never paid into Social Security. The Postal Service had a different kind of pension plan set up for their employees that was more of a government pension type of thing. The trade off is that my dad is not eligible for Social Security benefits. I think that maybe paying into Social Security is optional for some government employees. Some of the people my dad worked with over the years also had other jobs on the side where they DID pay into Social Security. Now that they are retired, they get BOTH their Postal Employee Pension AND Social Security benefits.

That''s weird because I do pay into Social Security. However, they named it something else, but it will be taxed and converted into SSA when i retire... whatever... i doubt there''ll be anything left by that time anway.

Good thing i''ll have my pension.... oh wait, that might be gone too...

What do you mean, they named it something else? Either you pay SS or you don''t.

 

[ForteKitty]

Date: 5/13/2005 4:17:59 PM
Author: Momoftwo
Will an accountant or tax attorney please chime in and tell her that there is no special tax table for Government employees.

Same deductions? Same exact interest deduction for mortgage? Same exact charitable giving? Same exact everything? I highly doubt it. I dont'' care how much you get back. That has nothing to do with your taxes paid. Look at the taxable income and the taxes paid lines on your tax returns. Is your taxable income exactly the same?

Do you both file the exact same forms? Are we talking state taxes or federal? Same state? Who does your taxes? Who does hers?

Yes, same deductions. No kids. No school loans. Interest deduction for mortgage''s a few dollars off, but close enough. No Charity. Our taxable income is within $100 of each other (I make more).

Same form. Federal & State. Both California. Turbotax did mine. Turbotax did hers. I work for L.A. County, she works in private. She paid a lot more taxes, got less back. I even double checked to make sure I didn''t do anything illegal.

I''m not complaining.

 

[sjz]

Date: 5/13/2005 4:28:21 PM
Author: Momoftwo

Date: 5/13/2005 4:23:16 PM
Author: ForteKitty

Date: 5/13/2005 4:16:33 PM
Author: sjz

Government employees pay taxes, just like everyone else. Sometimes they don''t pay into Social Security, though. My father worked for the USPS for over 30 years and never paid into Social Security. The Postal Service had a different kind of pension plan set up for their employees that was more of a government pension type of thing. The trade off is that my dad is not eligible for Social Security benefits. I think that maybe paying into Social Security is optional for some government employees. Some of the people my dad worked with over the years also had other jobs on the side where they DID pay into Social Security. Now that they are retired, they get BOTH their Postal Employee Pension AND Social Security benefits.

That''s weird because I do pay into Social Security. However, they named it something else, but it will be taxed and converted into SSA when i retire... whatever... i doubt there''ll be anything left by that time anway.

Good thing i''ll have my pension.... oh wait, that might be gone too...

What do you mean, they named it something else? Either you pay SS or you don''t.

Yeah, that seems odd to me, too. Why would they call it something else?

I have no idea what the USPS does now. My dad retired at 55, and he''s 72 now, so it''s been a while since he was a government employee. Before he worked at the post office, he worked on his father''s farm (again, didn''t pay any taxes, worked for room and board and spending money) and he was in the army for a few years. I don''t know what they did about paying taxes back then, he was in the army in the 1950''s.

 

[ForteKitty]

Date: 5/13/2005 4:28:21 PM
Author: Momoftwo
What do you mean, they named it something else? Either you pay SS or you don''t.

Effective 1970 something, L.A. County employees started paying into SS under the name H.I.T. There was some negotiations between County and Federal so that it''s not called SS because it''s being used by the County while we are employed, but when we retire, that amount goes to Social Security and is taxed somehow, and we are then eligible for SS benefits. I''m not really sure how it works since I''ve only been with the County for a few months and I never cared enough to find out. I''ve always been in private, and to tell you the truth, gov''t jobs suck. The people here are more than incompetent and lazy. if it wasn''t for this pension, i''d be out of here after the first week!

 

[MissAva]

I didnt say all goverment employees I just said senators and congressmen and they dont pay income taxes....

 

[ForteKitty]

Date: 5/13/2005 4:47:41 PM
Author: ForteKitty

Date: 5/13/2005 4:28:21 PM
Author: Momoftwo
What do you mean, they named it something else? Either you pay SS or you don''t.

Effective 1970 something, L.A. County employees started paying into SS under the name H.I.T. There was some negotiations between County and Federal so that it''s not called SS because it''s being used by the County while we are employed, but when we retire, that amount goes to Social Security and is taxed somehow, and we are then eligible for SS benefits. I''m not really sure how it works since I''ve only been with the County for a few months and I never cared enough to find out. I''ve always been in private, and to tell you the truth, gov''t jobs suck. The people here are more than incompetent and lazy. if it wasn''t for this pension, i''d be out of here after the first week!

If there are any L.A. County employees who can explain this to me, I''d love to understand it as well.

I tried calling HR right now but it''s Friday, and nobody''s working...

 

[Momoftwo]

Date: 5/13/2005 4:52:35 PM
Author: Matatora
I didnt say all goverment employees I just said senators and congressmen and they dont pay income taxes....

Yes they do. Everyone has to pay income taxes. How much depends on your income and deductions. Where did you get the idea they don''t?

First on SS, see this link: http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp

And here''s one that talks about income taxes: http://www.conginst.org/congressional_myths/taxes.html

So, do some research before you state things that are not true.

 

[MissAva]

Thank you I will be sure to mention this to the professor at Rice which stated it during a visiting lector....please dont be rude it never helps.

ETA: I am sorry that upon re-reading seems harsh. The tone as I read it of your reply struck me as somewhere between flippant and condescending but it may have not been intended that way. However, in my defense since it seems I need one, as students we are expected believe things we are told. I heard that my first semester at college and remembering thinking that was awful. On reflection since the tone of the lecture was that upper middle class/educated whites don’t have to help or contribute to society I should have been more suspicious. Still you are right we as students should not just believe something just because a professor states it as fact. I have learned that since then, but occasionally forget to double check things. I apologize for whatever, if any, inconvenience I caused you.

 

[Momoftwo]

I have two sons in college right now and they do not believe what they're told just because a professor says it's so. I hate paying as much as we do for someone to use their teaching time as a soapbox for their personal politics and beliefs. Quite a few professors have liberal agendas and say things to get their classes to think the way they do, even if they're wrong. A recent study showed more than 80% of College Professors are liberal and most extremely socialist. While obviously the student body isn't 80% so. I didn't mean to come across as flip, just well informed. I have to laugh at the statement that he said white upper middle class folks don't contribute to society. A lot more than half of the tax money collected comes from the upper income brackets and a great deal of charity receives income from the "well-off". Some just to have a tax break, others because they believe in it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/13/2005 4:16:33 PM
Author: sjz

Date: 5/13/2005 4:03:25 PM
Author: Momoftwo

Date: 5/13/2005 3:46:18 PM
Author: ForteKitty
Government workers do pay taxes, but it's not much. I'm taxed about 1/3 of what my friends w/ similar salaries are taxed.

Excuse me? What are you talking about? I work for the federal govt. My Dh works for a private co. He pays more taxes because he makes more. Government employees do not have a different tax rate than anyone else. If they're netting less and make what you do, it's because of other expenses, like insurance, retirement accounts and investments and they're claiming deductions differently than you are. Someone with a larger mortgage, using their pre-tax deductions correctly and more charitable giving is going to pay less overall. That's a fact. But no one pays less because they're a govt employee. If they're military, they only pay taxes on their base pay and not housing allowances. That's pretty much the only break.

There are no special tax tables for government employees.

Government employees pay taxes, just like everyone else. Sometimes they don't pay into Social Security, though. My father worked for the USPS for over 30 years and never paid into Social Security. The Postal Service had a different kind of pension plan set up for their employees that was more of a government pension type of thing. The trade off is that my dad is not eligible for Social Security benefits. I think that maybe paying into Social Security is optional for some government employees. Some of the people my dad worked with over the years also had other jobs on the side where they DID pay into Social Security. Now that they are retired, they get BOTH their Postal Employee Pension AND Social Security benefits.

sjz
everything is still the same as you posted above.i have lots of friends working for USPS.

 

[ForteKitty]

Date: 5/14/2005 5:09:29 PM
Author: Momoftwo

Quite a few professors have liberal agendas and say things to get their classes to think the way they do, even if they''re wrong. A recent study showed more than 80% of College Professors are liberal and most extremely socialist. While obviously the student body isn''t 80% so.

Do you remember who conducted the study, where it was conducted, how many subjects were involved, and what the parameters were? I consider my college to be quite liberal, but i have never experienced such professors. In fact, they always encouraged us to research further in all topics and welcomed us to refute his claims. My degrees were in Psychology and Sociology, so I took quite a few controversial classes related to politics. 80% seems awfully high...

 

[Momoftwo]

I don''t remember who did it. I just remember it was all over the news just a few weeks ago. It wasn''t a surprise to me or to my boys. I''ve heard the same from friends and their kids so not just my boys have had professors tell them their views. I think Matatora''s experience speaks for itself too.

I found this by doing a search for liberal university professors: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html

Surprising the Post would report it, but they did. It took a couple of minutes to download and I have DSL, so be patient.

Here''s something else on the topic from a DC tv station who picked it up from somewhere else: http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1204/196509.html

 

[ForteKitty]

Thanks, i''ll take a look later when i''m not rushed. It still surprises me though, because my professors usually don''t express their own beliefs, even when asked. I should find out if my school has a policy against that.

 

[MissAva]

Emory was an interesting balance my mother went there and loved graduated with degrees in Pysch and Soic. I liked it but it was so liberal that it was hard for me to stomach at time. I do not believe that my grandfather is a bad man for serving during Vietnam, nor do I think only violent people choose to be career military. But these are things I was expected to listen and take notes on. When I took religion and terrorism the semester after 9/11 I had serious issues with my professor. I went to HS in NJ and that is where my parents live. My father was supposed to be in NYC that day and for whatever reason my mother convinced him not to go to that meeting. But I didn’t know that and several of my friends from HS choose to go to NYU and Columbia both in the city. I was scared to death and crying, Emory is next to the CDC and we were worried about that too. When I came home for thanksgiving my father flew me and I cried because the towers were gone and it wouldn’t be the same for me anymore. My parents had made a list of the people we knew who were "missing". I know this was hard for everyone but I guess my prof didn’t think that way. We read to Koran which I has fine with, although it annoyed me to be told everyday that we were only read a translation so it didn’t count. About the second week of class he told us that it was all our fault about 9/11 and that if we weren’t so greedy and consumer driven nothing like that would have ever happened. He said time and time again that it was 100% preventable and that the people in who died were at fault. That class was an exercise in self-control for me I had to go running everyday after class to keep myself under control. SOME not all professors have forgotten that their job is to educate not indoctrinate their students. I m now at UA and even though transferring cost me a year of my life it is a better environment for me. Yes my professors here do give personal opinions but it is done in a different way and they are much clearer about what it means. I am sorry to say that I think that the "better" universities meaning the top tier are a great deal more liberal then most. Because I went to such a lovely school most of my classmates went top tier and all of us have similar stories about professor who couldn’t find the time to get off their soap box and teach. One of my uber conservative friends from HS went to Harvard but wont be going back for graduate because he just couldn’t take it anymore.