Are you sending your child to private school?

[rosetta]

I live in the UK and a recent conversation with my other half have bought up some differences in opinion regarding schooling our future kids (should we have any that is!)

I'm rather against it but FI is pro. The local state schools aren't that great so he has a point, but we really need to plan and save from now to afford the fees.

It would cost us about $35,000 per child per year (non-boarding). I estimate by the time he/she is in secondary school, it will be about $45,000 at least.

Do you plan to or do you have kids in private school?

What influenced your decision?

This will be a big financial decision for us hence the very forward planning.

All thoughts welcome.

Thank you

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I think most parents want the best for the children. I went to a private high school. It was not planned but we moved states right before my freshmen year and my parents bought a beautiful home in a really bad school district. It was a great education. There was no comparison, but the tuition was steep (more than my college).

I honestly have no idea what we will do with my daughter. Schools change so quickly where we live (building new ones, redistricting, etc) so we will make that decision when she is older. I try to remain open minded and flexible in my parenting.

 

[ksinger]

Well, you don't have children yet, and since we married at 45, my husband and I missed the baby boat - it's a pity we didn't have it together at 35 (our "second iteration") - we might have been able to swing it then. Anyway, since kids and schools are what he does day in day out, we have had many a hypothetical about how we would have raised our kids and where they would have gone to school, etc.

Being a public school teacher my husband is of course, a proponent of public education. So I doubt we'd have sent any kids to privates. But as you say, all publics are certainly not equal, so we'd likely have tried to get into the best public we could find. And the "best" is not just the academics. It's the entire environment. I can't speak to the UK schools, but here, one of the unspoken, maybe even unconscious, reasons for sending your kids to a private is to segregate them, by SE status if nothing else. Even if that is not your intent, sheer cost will ensure that the vast majority of children are from homes of a certain income level. So there is that to consider. If you're OK with that, then go for it.

As for the private, you have to do a complicated calculus to decide if the monies spent - and they sound substantial - will really result in THAT much better an education and THAT much of an increase in opportunity down the line. Here in the US, there is increasing public debate about the enormous cost of education (mainly college) versus the dwindling return on that investment, or the inablity to pay off the massive debt incurred with the income generated after college. My thoughts would be that for 35-45 thousand a year, I could purchase a LOT of tutoring or additional "experiences" for my child. Not to mention that I feel between the two of us, we could have taught our child many additional/supplemental things ourselves.

Not all that helpful maybe, but there are some of our thought processes, which alas, for us will remain hypothetical. Good luck to you and your future kids.

 

[basil]

Being a public school teacher my husband is of course, a proponent of public education. So I doubt we'd have sent any kids to privates. But as you say, all publics are certainly not equal, so we'd likely have tried to get into the best public we could find. And the "best" is not just the academics. It's the entire environment. I can't speak to the UK schools, but here, one of the unspoken, maybe even unconscious, reasons for sending your kids to a private is to segregate them, by SE status if nothing else. Even if that is not your intent, sheer cost will ensure that the vast majority of children are from homes of a certain income level. So there is that to consider. If you're OK with that, then go for it.

Yes, this is the reason I would NOT want to send my kid to private school. I don't think it's particularly healthy to only be exposed to one (presumably high) level of SES. I went to a not-that-great by ranking public school, though I got a fine education. My friends' parents were bus drivers and dairy mart owners, as well as PhDs and accountants. I think it's important for a kid to realize that even if your parents can buy you a BMW at 16, it's not necessary, and it doesn't make you better than those who come from families who can't. And this attitude was plenty prevalent among the kids I met from private schools once I got to college.

 

[Shoopy]

No. We believe that with the right support from us at home she can be very successful at a public school. The money we save for her can be better used later in her life, either to help get her through college or a starter fund for when she graduates. Plus, if we do have more children, we won't be able to afford to put them all through private school while saving for their future (and ensuring we have a good retirement fund as well).

 

[Jennifer W]

Rosetta, there are all sorts of arguments for and against, especially in the UK, where there are excellent state schools and first rate private schools, as well as dreadful examples of both. I don't like the idea of my child growing up with any elitist notions, and I don't care to promote social exclusion, however, I do want the best possible education for her.

My approach is that she'll go to the local primary school, then when it's time to think about high school, we'll look at all the options and find the best fit for her personality and ability.

The primary school receives better HMIE reports than the nearest private schools for that age group, so that's an easy decision. The high school situation is not so clear, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. One of the factors for us is that a new state high school is going to be built in the next 3 years, much closer to where we live than any of the existing schools, state or private. If it's up to scratch, then it would be my first choice.

In the meantime, as there's a chance we'll consider private education, we plan financially for it as though it was a certainty. I'm sure we'll find another use for the money if she goes to a state school. (Biggest diamond you ever saw, maybe?)

 

[SapphireLover]

We are over in the UK and DH is a teacher in a state (public) school. He is against private schools. I went to one for about four years and my two younger cousins go to them at the moment. He gets so frustrated by the learning styles that they use in the schools, finding them old fashioned, out dated and do not encourage children to think and explore and apply things to the real world. I point out that the parents quite often want their children to have schooling like they did (work on a black board, have one maths equation explained to them and then sit in silence doing another 30 near identical equations) and that they get what they pay for.

Paying for private school is not an option for us in any case. We just could not afford it even if DH entertained the idea of it.

Most of the girls that I was friends with in my private school have absolutely no real world experience at all. They have never known what it is like to struggle, think that homeless people just need to get a job. They are quite sheltered and its quite scary. I went to state school for most of my high school so mixed with all types.

We had a similar discussion the other day about religious schools (still state, not private). The local Jewish high school to us gets outstanding exam results and I wouldn't mind any children that we might have going there. He is against schools that only take one religion in too!

 

[charbie]

Being a public school teacher my husband is of course, a proponent of public education. So I doubt we'd have sent any kids to privates. But as you say, all publics are certainly not equal, so we'd likely have tried to get into the best public we could find. And the "best" is not just the academics. It's the entire environment. I can't speak to the UK schools, but here, one of the unspoken, maybe even unconscious, reasons for sending your kids to a private is to segregate them, by SE status if nothing else. Even if that is not your intent, sheer cost will ensure that the vast majority of children are from homes of a certain income level. So there is that to consider. If you're OK with that, then go for it.

Yes, this is the reason I would NOT want to send my kid to private school. I don't think it's particularly healthy to only be exposed to one (presumably high) level of SES. I went to a not-that-great by ranking public school, though I got a fine education. My friends' parents were bus drivers and dairy mart owners, as well as PhDs and accountants. I think it's important for a kid to realize that even if your parents can buy you a BMW at 16, it's not necessary, and it doesn't make you better than those who come from families who can't. And this attitude was plenty prevalent among the kids I met from private schools once I got to college.

Ditto to both.
although, I must say, if we lived in an area where my kids may not be SAFE at the public school, I would have them in private. Where DH grew up, he almost had no choice, and the people in his Catholic high school did not come from big money...barely even middle class. I think if I knew our school district was just so-so, I would step up my game as a parent to make sure my children received the education they needed to succeed.

 

[janinegirly]

I also am not sure - it depends on the child, on where we are living and the state of the public schools in our town at the time. Right now they are considered top public schools, but ultimately I want what's best for my child and that means having all options open. So private school is a possibility, and I plan on saving for it (we have already accounted for college). I went to private schools and not saying what I did is best but looking back I can see how it was a benefit in my situation and am thankful to my parents for ensuring I had the opportunities.

 

[lbbaber]

It depends on the public schools in your area. I have taught in public schools myself but would not hesitate to send my children to private school if the local public schools were not excellent. That being said, I bought my house specifically because of it's location. I am living in a town in CT that is known for having a FANTASTIC public school system. The local private schools are not as good (in my opinion). Sadly, my taxes reflect this
Only you can decide if it's worth it or not. Take a good look at your public school system. If there is even a chance of it not being what you would want for your children and if you can afford private school, why not? Spending money on a quality education is a worthy investment (in my opinion).

 

[luv2sparkle]

We have done both. All of our children have experienced both public and private. My youngest, who is 14, is at a private school
which we love. He is begging me to send him to the local public school. The education doesn't compare and the public school has
a ton of drug problems. The private school opportunities are amazing if he chooses to apply himself. His next older brother went there
and did apply himself and was able to get into every college he applied all highly ranked.

The private schools still have their share of problems. We have been happiest with the progress of our kids at the private schools.

 

[yiska]

I love in London but I went to a private school in Oxford for most of secondary school. I LOVED it. However, that's just because it was a great school. I was able to go there because they offered bursaries to students from lower income families.
I really don't think I can generalize about which is better, as others have said, there are great comprehensives and awful private schools.

What I really thought was great about my school was that the teachers weren't so constrained by the curriculum and we were taught many things that went above and beyond what the government decided is the minimum level. We also had really interesting teachers that came from different backgrounds and professions. The focus wasn't all academic either- the arts department was fantastic and we had great sports facilities.

I honestly believe I owe that school a lot for turning me into the person I am today. They taught me to believe in myself and aim for the stars.

I am slightly shocked at the prices you quoted! Is that just because it's London? I think my school was around £7500 a year for paying students.

To conclude, I really think it depends on the child and the local comprehensive schools. My sister didn't go private and also did well, but she was perhaps more suited to an environment were you need to shout a bit louder to be heard!

 

[Trekkie]

If we raise our children in South Africa, yes. If we move to Australia, no.

Both my FI and I went to private boarding school and we really see the benefits. It's not only about the curriculum, it's about learning to think creatively, working independently and a whole host of things to which one can't assign a dollar value. My school was quite snobby. That isn't why I went there, I went because I was awarded a bursary for academic excellence.

I'm shocked at how expensive private school is in the UK. My dad went to Repton and I can't imagine my grandmother being able to afford such high fees. Have you considered Cheltenham Ladies College? Yes, it's quite a distance and your daughters would probably need to board, but it's a very good school. I only turned down my place because I couldn't face the thought of being in a different hemisphere to my then 3 year old brother.

Anyway, I think private school is a great experience and I think that if you can comfortably afford it, you should go for it.

 

[rosetta]

I've converted the currency wrong: the figure I quoted should be $25,000 not $35,000.

It's the current non-boarding fees for my FI's old school in London. I've double checked it.

Thank you all for all you views.

I don't want my kids to be elitist hence the support for public schooling. But of course I want the best education for them too.

It's very difficult. I wish there were better state schools where we will eventually live. FI doesn't believe there are any.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Personally, I plan to have my kids in public school (as long as it's a safe environment), and if they have needs that aren't being met, then I'll consider transferring them to private. But I don't think I'd start with private school off the bat without trying public school first. Even though it sounds like the school isn't the best, your kids still might thrive there, and you can always supplement their education at home and encourage other extracurriculars. You'll probably get a better feeling if they would do better in private school as they get older and gear up for high school, which is also where I think you get better "return" for your investment in terms of competitive college applications (at least here in the US).

 

[rosetta]

Cheltenham ladies is certainly much more reasonable! Not sure if I'll have daughters though, and whether boarding will be the right step anyway. Their results are very good though.

I know the area where FI and I will eventually live, and the schools there cost on average £10,000 + per year. So at least we know what we're dealing with.

We can afford it comfortably, but there goes the bulk of my jewellery fund!

 

[Trekkie]

I've converted the currency wrong: the figure I quoted should be $25,000 not $35,000.

Ah. This makes more sense.

Again, if it is affordable, then I would definitely suggest private over public. Especially in London. I don't mean to be critical, but there are very few really good public schools in London. There are more once one starts considering the outlying areas but that of course adds another level of complication.

Also, at the risk of sounding like a snob, think of the friends your child will make - they will be that generation's leaders and captains of industry. And as much as one would like to deny the existence of the old school tie, its benefits are inescapable.

 

[Trekkie]

.

 

[Trekkie]

Cheltenham ladies is certainly much more reasonable! Not sure if I'll have daughters though, and whether boarding will be the right step anyway. Their results are very good though.

I know the area where FI and I will eventually live, and the schools there cost on average £10,000 + per year. So at least we know what we're dealing with.

We can afford it comfortably, but there goes the bulk of my jewellery fund!

Oh no! Not the jewellery fund!

Forget private school. In fact forget school altogether - send the little buggers out to work! Those diamonds aren't going to buy themselves you know!

Good luck with this and I hope that when the time comes you'll have more options!

 

[asscherisme]

My kids go to public school. I never considered private school. I bought my house specifically for the school district. I went to public schools. Some of my children have special needs and I feel the services they are getting through the public school (with IEPS) is better than they would get with a private school. I also feel there is more oversight with it being public money than private money.

 

[chemgirl]

I think it really depends on the specific schools.

For example, I know several former teachers who did teaching abroad in London after being educated in Canada. 3 our of 4 are no longer teachers because the schools they were placed in were horrible. One was threatened with a knife by a student. I would not want my child in a school like that. I'm sure there are good public schools in safer areas that would be worth considering.

We don't have children, but we are starting to think of public verses private school because we are looking at houses. If we plan on private school then we are not tied to a specific school district. Its a huge issue for us because houses in the best school district cost around $100 000 more than similar houses in other areas. We can afford a large modern house in the suburbs, or a small Victorian era cottage in the good school district.

We're really not sure which way to go on it.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Nope, both my kids are in public and we're happy with their school! I've learned that it's not all about the school but also about the teachers. We've had some great teachers and some good ones, however, in the end, regardless, it makes a huge difference how much time parents spend with their kids and support their education when the child(ren) get home after the day to make up for any gap there may be.

Aside from that, we're not in the boat to fund two kids going to private school. At this point, I will be happy if we can afford to put both through college. Both my kids have aspired to go to a public university here and we'll do what we can to make that happen

 

[Haven]

I really think it depends on the child, and the family, of course. I teach in a public school, so I happen to be a big supporter of public schools, but I do believe that private schools are the right option for some children.

For example, my mother teaches in a private Jewish school, and for some families that school is absolutely the best option. If they sent their children to public school they would have to miss a lot of school for religious holidays, for instance, while the private Jewish school obviously schedules their school year around such things.

I also believe that some children who are extremely creative in one fashion or another can benefit from a specialized private school, especially if their local public school does not have the resources those children need. Similarly, some children with certain special needs would do better in a particular private school if that school had better resources than their local public school.

All that being said, I went to public schools from 1st grade through undergrad, and they all served me well. I desperately wanted to attend the U of Chicago Lab School when I was in high school, because I felt that would have been a better place for me, but we didn't have the money so it didn't happen.

Ultimately, I firmly believe that the home life contributes most to a child's education, so public or private, you have a lot of control over your child's education.

I don't have enough experience with boarding school to comment on those. My "second mum" attended boarding schools in England from 6th grade and on, I believe, and she has the most awful horror stories. BUT, that was just her experience as a shy, plump girl who was teased relentlessly. Those are her words, of course.

 

[Pandora II]

Rosetta, I'm in SE London and over my dead body will our daughter go to a state secondary school. They are just appalling in our area. I was a school governor for one of the better ones and they celebrated getting 38% 5 GCSE's not including English and Maths.

I'm tempted to try for a state primary school - but the only decent one near us (it is the closest) is C of E and we are both staunch atheists. Of the other 5 in the area, the non-denominational ones are in special measures and the others are RC. So if she doesn't get a place at the C of E one then we will have to try and find the money somewhere for a private prep school.

If we had plenty of money I'd go private from the start. My husband and I started in the state system - we were both bright and became so bored with everything being taught at the level of the slowest child in the class that we started misbehaving and our respective sets of parents moved us to the private sector pronto.

My prep school was hugely academic and I can say that the standard of education I got there was first rate. The facilities and extra-curricular activities were incredible. We did work extremely hard - 8.30am till 6pm from age 7 with an hour of homework every night till age 10 and then 2 hours, there was also school on Saturday mornings and 2 hours of sport every afternoon.

I then went to a state grammar school which took boarders. I found it quite hard there because I was constantly teased for my accent and for having a hyphenated surname (inverse snobbery seems to be seen as totally acceptable) and I'd have been much happier at a private secondary school as well I think.

For Daisy I'd like an all-girls school (if I had a son I'd probably opt for co-ed) and definitely a selective school. I want her stretched academically. I'm not interested in buying a certain class of friends, although I will say that I don't particularly want her hanging out with the local kids round here, but I'd like their parents to be equally apirational and interested in their children.

As far as affording schools goes, ones to look at are: City of London Girl's (they're selective and have a bursary scheme based on your disposable income after mortgage payments are taken out. For example if you have £30k of disposable income you would qualify for an 80% reduction in fees which would work out at around £700 a term IIRC), a lot of the others have similar schemes and scholarships although we'd really need a full one if we were to go for something like St. Pauls Girl's which is first rate but around £30k a year.

Others to consider are Christ's Hospital (amazing uniform), James Allen Girls and even places like Cranbrook - state grammar with boarding. If you're interested in boarding schools then places like Battle Abbey aren't extortionate although they're not top-notch academically. Check out the Girl's Public Day School Trust (sorry American's but in the UK a 'Public' school means a private school like Eton or Winchester or Harrow etc. What you call public schools are called State schools here) as many of theirs are affordable.

If you have a son, sign him up for singing lessons at birth and aim for one of the Choir schools!

As for state sector, Haberdasher Aske's in Newcross is amazing, but there are over 2,500 applicants every year for around 100 places and house prices are just incredible to live in the catchment area (and it's not exactly a nice area). It's pretty much like that everywhere though - my BIL has just spent best part of £1 million to buy a bog standard 3 bed Victorian terrace (with loads of work needed) because there are so many similar parents in the area that they can pretty much fill the local schools and get a good education for nothing.

Honestly, I really couldn't give a fig about whether it would be better for society if parents like me sent my child to a state school. Daisy is a bright kid and already way ahead of many kids of her age (and I don't hot house or teach her anything as I don't want her bored to tears when she starts school but she just picks things up on her own), both my husband and I won scholarships and he and his brother went to Oxbridge so although I have no wish to be a pushy parent, I think that it isn't completely stupid to consider that she is potentially capable of doing well academically.

When I've expressed my worries about lessons being taught at the speed and level of the slowest child - and we live in an area where the vast majority of children don't speak English as a first language if at all, most are from single-parent families and from ethnic groups that do not put a premium on education - I've been told that it is good for bright children to help the slower ones. Tying a racehorse to a carthorse doesn't make it go any faster but does frustrate the racehorse! Plus, I send my child to school to learn not to teach other children. Every minute that she spends repeating things ad infinitum or helping another kid is a minute she could have spent learning herself.

I also want teachers who have a degree in subject they are teaching - and who can spell and use grammar correctly!

My husband and I do what we can politically to improve state education round here - we're school governors, I was a borough councillor till last year, we mentor kids from deprived backgrounds etc but when it comes to our own child we will buy her the best opportunities we can even if it means huge sacrifices and probably only having the one child.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, I am going to agree with Pandora that the most important factor is that a parent does what they think is best for THEIR child!!! I'm afraid I don't see the need for diversity training by throwing kids in with drug addicts.

As a public (US) school teacher for many years, I can see that the education just isn't that good because the curriculum is geared to be acceptable for the average kids. In high schools, kids can be challenged more by taking AP classes. But the amount of drugs and ridiculous behavior tolerated convinced us that we needed to make another plan for our third child. Peer pressure from kids from homes unlike ours caused our son to almost ruin his life. If I could go back in time, there is NO WAY he would have gone to public school. The second child, a daughter, did much better and was a top student, but she still didn't get nearly the education that the better private schools offer. But so much depends on the individual school. Hindsight is easy, you know!

 

[rosetta]

thank you all so much for your views.

Special thanks to Pandora, you are actually living very close to where we will set up house (in fact, one of the schools you mentioned is where my FSIL went to school and loads of girls i went to medical school with went to City) and if that's the case, there doesn't seem to be any good state schools around. I'm getting more and more resigned to private schooling for future ankle-biters. i don't think our combined income will allow us to be eligible for any means-tested bursaries, so unless their are academic scholarships, we will be paying the full fees. Have you started saving already Pandora?

trekkie, i don't think i can sacrifice my child's education for the sake of jewellery, tempting as it is!

If they are not very bright, they are going state unless they demonstrate exceptional talent in the performing arts that merits specialist schooling!

anyway, this is all very enlightening, and then some. we really do need to plan well ahead and start saving now, as the amounts we are talking about are huge. thank goodness we are only planning to have one child, if any (twins run in the family though, in which case, we're truly in trouble!)

 

[Pandora II]

thank you all so much for your views.

Special thanks to Pandora, you are actually living very close to where we will set up house (in fact, one of the schools you mentioned is where my FSIL went to school and loads of girls i went to medical school with went to City) and if that's the case, there doesn't seem to be any good state schools around. I'm getting more and more resigned to private schooling for future ankle-biters. i don't think our combined income will allow us to be eligible for any means-tested bursaries, so unless their are academic scholarships, we will be paying the full fees. Have you started saving already Pandora?
trekkie, i don't think i can sacrifice my child's education for the sake of jewellery, tempting as it is!

If they are not very bright, they are going state unless they demonstrate exceptional talent in the performing arts that merits specialist schooling!

anyway, this is all very enlightening, and then some. we really do need to plan well ahead and start saving now, as the amounts we are talking about are huge. thank goodness we are only planning to have one child, if any (twins run in the family though, in which case, we're truly in trouble!)

Not really specifically for that, but DH is a big saver - however he's been out of work for 6 months although doing lots of lucrative consultency work and I'm currently a SAHM although in the process of starting my own business which may or may not be lucrative. On the other hand we own two properties in London so could probably raise the money if needs be.

Unfortunately most scholarships are also means-tested these days, so if you have over £50k in disposable income after tax & mortgages you wouldn't get much more than the prestige of being a scholar.

Which ball-park area are you moving to just out of interest? I can see Canary Wharf pretty clearly from here if that gives you a rough idea where I am. I do recommend this area in every way except schools, we love it!

 

[rosetta]

Think leafy S London and big family houses....

 

[basil]

Well, I am going to agree with Pandora that the most important factor is that a parent does what they think is best for THEIR child!!! I'm afraid I don't see the need for diversity training by throwing kids in with drug addicts.

As a public (US) school teacher for many years, I can see that the education just isn't that good because the curriculum is geared to be acceptable for the average kids. In high schools, kids can be challenged more by taking AP classes. But the amount of drugs and ridiculous behavior tolerated convinced us that we needed to make another plan for our third child. Peer pressure from kids from homes unlike ours caused our son to almost ruin his life. If I could go back in time, there is NO WAY he would have gone to public school. The second child, a daughter, did much better and was a top student, but she still didn't get nearly the education that the better private schools offer. But so much depends on the individual school. Hindsight is easy, you know!

Yes, but it is WAY dependent on the schools. When I got to college and met kids from very high tier private schools (Andover, Exeter, Milton, etc.), they were WAY more saavy than I when it came to drugs/alcohol/sex/etc. Drugs are not restricted to lower SES! All the kids I knew who dropped out or got kicked out of college for problems with addiction were from wealthy families.

Of course if the school is unsafe, that's a different matter. I'm sure I could have taken more AP classes in HS if I went to different (larger) school and maybe I missed out on my squash talent or something, but I am pretty convinced I wouldn't have been any more successful in life if I had gotten a "better" high school education.

And, though this is not a nice thing to say...I think I did benefit from being a "big fish in a small pond" in my early years. I had a lot of self-confidence academically that I may not have had if I had been around a lot of other similarly talented kids. I think that has value too.

 

[Pandora II]

I'd agree that going to a private school doesn't reduce exposure to drugs/alcohol/tobacco or sex, but a private school will generally come down hard on miscreants and there are no issues about permanently excluding pupils in the way that there are in the state sector.

On the other hand, my child's classmates are less likely to be stabbed and shot (and that is no exaggeration where I live).

Children disrupting the class and preventing others from studying is almost unheard of in the private sector and rife in the public sector. Ditto for academic success being celebrated in one and ridiculed in the other. I don't want Daisy to be the only child in her year to go to university, I want her to be in a class where it is expected that 99.9% WILL go to University and predominantly Russell Group universities.

One thing that I would like to say is that I don't necessarily think that a private education will make someone more successful in life, or lead them to have a spectacular career, but they will have gained knowledge and exposure to ideas and that is something that can never be taken away. Even a girl who decides to have children rather than pursue any kind of career will have profound benefits from what she has learnt and will pass them on to her offspring. That is what I want to buy for my child - not the £500k a year salary.