another kid Q...any friends/relatives that you know regret

[CJ2008]

This upcoming rant isn''t against you, Feb2003, you reminded me that this line of reasoning really gets my goat! As a DINK by choice, I have heard variants on this sooo many times ''You will be alone when you''re old'', ''Who will take care of you when you are old'', ''Don''t you want to be surrounded by family when you''re old'' etc etc.


Children are not some sort of insurance policy. There is no guarantee that they will even LIKE you, let alone stick around if they do like you, let alone take care of you/keep you company when you are old. How many people here live in the same town as their parents? I adore my mother and hope to have her come live with us when she retires, but I live 1000 miles away. We will never settle close to his parents, despite their wishes. Many of my friends cannot STAND their parents and have not seen them for years, and have no intention of sharing their children''s lives with their parents if they do end up having kids.


What happens when kids grow up. They fly the nest and go their own way, then they stick your wrinkled behind in an old folks'' home. People have this fuzzy dream about being surrounded by adoring children and packs of cheerful grandkids- does YOUR family gatherings, IF they happen regularly, look like that??

And yet people trot out this chestnut EVERY TIME.


Having kids to keep yourself or your spouse company seems like really deluded thinking to me. People still cling to it though, even to the point of forgetting how they treated their own parents and grandparents.

I agree 100%...

 

[Indylady]

Date: 6/8/2010 10:24:24 PM
Author: Galateia

Date: 6/8/2010 9:45:24 PM

Author: february2003bride

Yes, DH''s closest friend of the last 25 years. She and her DH decided not to have children, but rather be an amazing Aunt and Uncle to their nieces and nephews (and they are). Long story short, she was diagnosed with early stage breast cancer last year. She told DH that she wished they did have a child after all, because she was so worried about dying and leaving her DH alone. He''s very much an introvert and she was more scared about him being alone if she passed away from cancer (which she won''t, thank God) than from actually dying from cancer.

This upcoming rant isn''t against you, Feb2003, you reminded me that this line of reasoning really gets my goat! As a DINK by choice, I have heard variants on this sooo many times ''You will be alone when you''re old'', ''Who will take care of you when you are old'', ''Don''t you want to be surrounded by family when you''re old'' etc etc.


Children are not some sort of insurance policy. There is no guarantee that they will even LIKE you, let alone stick around if they do like you, let alone take care of you/keep you company when you are old. How many people here live in the same town as their parents? I adore my mother and hope to have her come live with us when she retires, but I live 1000 miles away. We will never settle close to his parents, despite their wishes. Many of my friends cannot STAND their parents and have not seen them for years, and have no intention of sharing their children''s lives with their parents if they do end up having kids.


What happens when kids grow up. They fly the nest and go their own way, then they stick your wrinkled behind in an old folks'' home. People have this fuzzy dream about being surrounded by adoring children and packs of cheerful grandkids- does YOUR family gatherings, IF they happen regularly, look like that??

And yet people trot out this chestnut EVERY TIME.


Having kids to keep yourself or your spouse company seems like really deluded thinking to me. People still cling to it though, even to the point of forgetting how they treated their own parents and grandparents.

My family is my insurance. They''re my support system. Sure, its not the same for everyone. But, just like there are some people whose families aren''t their support system, there are others whose families are their support system.

I do agree that there is no guarantee your children will like you and care for you when you''re older. I also don''t think that everyone must/should have kids.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/8/2010 8:36:21 PM
Author: audball

Date: 6/8/2010 8:08:36 PM

Author: Cehrabehra

I know people who have regretted not having children but I''ve never met anyone who regretted having children.

I have met a couple who deeply regrets having a child and resent her like nothing I''ve ever seen. She''ll never know this, because they hide it from her, but they have been absolutely miserable with their life since she arrived. They were they couple who had a child because they were scared into thinking they would regret it one day, and now they wish they never had. They take turns coming over to a mutual neighbor''s house (a childless couple) and cry about their decision. Just to get a break. They were a happy couple pre-baby, now, not so much. It''s not for everyone.

Is the child still a baby? How old is the child? I''d be curious to know if they still regret her when she''s grown and able to have discussions with them about things adult to adult.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/8/2010 9:20:01 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
I don''t see a reason why people can''t have children without finding Mr. Right or Ms. Right. I have seen many people who were brave enough to do it one their own and couldn''t be happier. I also know of a lesbian couple who each got artificially inseminated by the same guy .. they have two beautiful children!

Did you see the movie The Baby Formula? hehehe

 

[Cehrabehra]

I think the thing about kids, the reason that those who have had them wish others to have them is really just because as wonderful as life can be without kids - and this is true - there is a magical thing that happens, many magical things that happen when you create a person with someone you love and this magical thing is truly unique and I don''t care how much you love your dog your cat or your parrot, there is NOTHING on the planet that comes even close to the magic of making a person and watching that person develop. Yes it''s hard, yes it''s a pita sometimes, yes there are great sacrifices to be had... but the intense joy and the amazing emotions that go with it are so absolutely over the top amazing that those of us who have experienced it truly believe, and in some ways KNOW, that those who choose not to do it are missing out on something... that maybe they just don''t UNDERSTAND what they''re missing out on.

I am sure there are people who regret having children but it is extremely rare because the magic (I keep using this word - I know no other to describe it) is such that it erases everything and replaces it with joy. From the outside in you see what is mundane, what is annoying, what is irritating or gross. But what you cannot see, what you cannot KNOW until you''ve actually become a parent, is the joy that it brings, the special joy that nothing else in the world even comes close to matching. There is no travel, no cars, no fancy houses or gourmet meals that even come close. It may seem like those things are all better than snotty noses, dirty diapers, disrespectful teenagers and all of the other superficial annoyances that go along with being a parent, but to anyone who has actually crossed over into parenthood and experienced the joy - the people who would go back and choose material goods over their child is minute. And it''s not because they''re better equipped at being a parent, it''s because becoming a parent works its own magic on you.

It is absolutely impossible to imagine what it will be like, no matter how hard you try.

Now I say all of this and I mean all of this, but the bottom line to me will always be - if you don''t want to be a parent, I would never wish a child upon you, for their sake. For your sake it might be the most wonderful thing that ever happened... but in case you are that one in a million person who truly regrets that child, I would never wish a child to be born to a parent who doesn''t want it or love it.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/8/2010 9:12:19 PM
Author: waterlilly

Date: 6/8/2010 8:56:06 PM
Author: swingirl
Yep. Just about everyone I know who choose not to have children and made wonderful plans for toys, travel, sleepy Sundays, a clean house and a fulfilling career have found that somewhere around 50 life gets pretty dull. They've traveled everywhere and bought all the fancy cars and purses they wanted. The career has peaked, too. Now they look around and have realized there is no one to share any of the stuff with.

Sorry, I just find that a little hard to believe. This sounds more like something my parents would say to me as a scenario for what will happen when I'm 50 if I don't have kids. People actually have told you these details and that they regret not having kids because they can't share their 'stuff' with them? Not exactly a reason to have kids in my opinion.

Not only do I agree, waterlilly, but I actually thought that Dancing Fire's question was going to be whether there were any friends or relatives that we knew who regretted having children. I often wonder what my

life would be like if I hadn't had my daughter, if I hadn't gotten married to my husband. I have some friends with very happy marriages, no children, and lots of animals whose lives look wonderful to me as I struggle

with a troubled daughter whom I love and whom I fear no one else will ever love as much as I do.


Deb/AGBF

 

[waterlilly]

Date: 6/8/2010 10:24:24 PM
Author: Galateia

Date: 6/8/2010 9:45:24 PM

Author: february2003bride

Yes, DH's closest friend of the last 25 years. She and her DH decided not to have children, but rather be an amazing Aunt and Uncle to their nieces and nephews (and they are). Long story short, she was diagnosed with early stage breast cancer last year. She told DH that she wished they did have a child after all, because she was so worried about dying and leaving her DH alone. He's very much an introvert and she was more scared about him being alone if she passed away from cancer (which she won't, thank God) than from actually dying from cancer.

This upcoming rant isn't against you, Feb2003, you reminded me that this line of reasoning really gets my goat! As a DINK by choice, I have heard variants on this sooo many times 'You will be alone when you're old', 'Who will take care of you when you are old', 'Don't you want to be surrounded by family when you're old' etc etc.


Children are not some sort of insurance policy. There is no guarantee that they will even LIKE you, let alone stick around if they do like you, let alone take care of you/keep you company when you are old. How many people here live in the same town as their parents? I adore my mother and hope to have her come live with us when she retires, but I live 1000 miles away. We will never settle close to his parents, despite their wishes. Many of my friends cannot STAND their parents and have not seen them for years, and have no intention of sharing their children's lives with their parents if they do end up having kids.


What happens when kids grow up. They fly the nest and go their own way, then they stick your wrinkled behind in an old folks' home. People have this fuzzy dream about being surrounded by adoring children and packs of cheerful grandkids- does YOUR family gatherings, IF they happen regularly, look like that??

And yet people trot out this chestnut EVERY TIME.


Having kids to keep yourself or your spouse company seems like really deluded thinking to me. People still cling to it though, even to the point of forgetting how they treated their own parents and grandparents.

Agreed.

According to one article I read, it is estimated to take $259,000 to raise a child to the age of 18 (NOT including college). So, if we choose not to have kids, I won't need to worry about the lack of "care" they might give me when I'm older, I'll have a big fat retirement fund for that. Why would a parent expect to burden their child with such a thing? As if having a child means you have created some future care taker for you? I can't think of a more selfish reason for having children!

How many people do you know "hang out" with their parents? My parents have their own friends/social circle - it doesn't include me!

 

[RaiKai]

A fear of "being alone" when we are old is not a good reason for either DH or I to have children. That just does not work for me. I love my parents, and my family, and I do know that we are there to support one another, but I also do not live near them - they have their own lives and social circles as I have mine. And if they need to be taken care of as they get old...I really won't be able to afford it anyway (fortunately they have their own savings for that!).

We may have other reasons for wanting them (or not) but I do not agree that having children guarantees you will not be "lonely". I regularly see older men and women who have several children who are very "lonely". Their children may or may not visit them, but I don't think having a large family is a guarantee for personal happiness. People are always really at the end of the day "alone", but they are only as "lonely" as they "choose to be", and both DH and I are quite good about having our social circles and making friends. We are surrounded by friends, and to us that is just as much "family" as family is! No doubt that if I die before DH, and we did not have children, he will not worry about being alone....he will be surrounded by little old ladies in the senior's home biding for his attention. And if he goes before me, and we did not have children, and I needed "care" for some reason...I would hire myself someone wonderful and/or move into one of the fancy senior's communities around where I live (where we live, they have the best views and the loveliest huge apartments!).

I recognize that for some people this desire to be "surrounded by family" as they age is a motivation for having children....but it really does rub me the wrong way too when I see people comment that those who have NOT had children are going to be all alone when they are old or won't have anyone there for them or won't be able to provide for themselves.

 

[RaiKai]

Depends I guess what you mean by "regret". The only ones I know who did NOT have children and regretted it were generally those who had always rather sort of wanted them in the first place and just never were able to have them - even if they had tried quite early on. Not sure it is regret so much as it is just feeling a sense of loss for an opportunity they did not have or did not take.

I do think there are people who do "regret" having children. I remember reading a poll a couple years ago that was in a newspaper or magazine - of course the results are skewed by those that answered - but the question was whether they ever regretted having children or wishing they could do it over again. A really high number (like 70%) said yes. Does not mean they would necessarily put them back, but maybe would have done things differently. My own mother (who really is a WONDERFUL mother and person!) has shared with me she often wishes she had waited a bit longer to have children (she had us all quite young) though she loves us DEARLY and I have no doubt about that. But she does sometimes wonder "what if" she had waited, or not had them!

A French woman caused a stir with her book "No Kids". It was more a criticism of the "child centered" French culture, but she also expressed she would have done it differently if she knew then what she knows now, and not had kids. She already had two. Critics and the public focused more on the expressed regrets, than the policy issues, and were furious that somehow she was a terrible mother for thinking that, never mind expressing it. Then there were others who admitted they often felt the same...and felt very ALONE and ashamed of thinking that way. The thing is....how do you know until you have them how you will really feel?

So far, I am waiting, and am not going to rush to have them earlier out of a fear I "might regret waiting one day". I don't think fear - fear of waiting too long, fear of being alone, fear of being "old parents", fear of whatever...is a good reason for us to start trying before we both actually *want* to start trying. I am soon to be 31 (DH is soon to be 36) and many of our peers only started having their children in their mid-to late-thirties and don't regret having waited at all from what they share with us or mind changing diapers in their thirties. DH and I only met when we were 34 and 29 (and married at 35 and 30) and are not going to skip over what we feel to be important for our early years together to have kids before we are ready out of those fears. There is already a chance I might not be able to carry a child to term due to certain factors. If we find down the road we can't have them and want them...so be it. We are quite open to adoption, or just accepting our lives as they turn out to be. As long as we are always aware of our choices and make those choices for ourselves knowing that one choice may limit another choice and so on, there is little room for regret.

 

[Sha]

Date: 6/9/2010 5:05:25 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
I think the thing about kids, the reason that those who have had them wish others to have them is really just because as wonderful as life can be without kids - and this is true - there is a magical thing that happens, many magical things that happen when you create a person with someone you love and this magical thing is truly unique and I don''t care how much you love your dog your cat or your parrot, there is NOTHING on the planet that comes even close to the magic of making a person and watching that person develop. Yes it''s hard, yes it''s a pita sometimes, yes there are great sacrifices to be had... but the intense joy and the amazing emotions that go with it are so absolutely over the top amazing that those of us who have experienced it truly believe, and in some ways KNOW, that those who choose not to do it are missing out on something... that maybe they just don''t UNDERSTAND what they''re missing out on.

I am sure there are people who regret having children but it is extremely rare because the magic (I keep using this word - I know no other to describe it) is such that it erases everything and replaces it with joy. From the outside in you see what is mundane, what is annoying, what is irritating or gross. But what you cannot see, what you cannot KNOW until you''ve actually become a parent, is the joy that it brings, the special joy that nothing else in the world even comes close to matching. There is no travel, no cars, no fancy houses or gourmet meals that even come close. It may seem like those things are all better than snotty noses, dirty diapers, disrespectful teenagers and all of the other superficial annoyances that go along with being a parent, but to anyone who has actually crossed over into parenthood and experienced the joy - the people who would go back and choose material goods over their child is minute. And it''s not because they''re better equipped at being a parent, it''s because becoming a parent works its own magic on you.

It is absolutely impossible to imagine what it will be like, no matter how hard you try.

Now I say all of this and I mean all of this, but the bottom line to me will always be - if you don''t want to be a parent, I would never wish a child upon you, for their sake. For your sake it might be the most wonderful thing that ever happened... but in case you are that one in a million person who truly regrets that child, I would never wish a child to be born to a parent who doesn''t want it or love it.

Well said!

 

[yssie]

No.


An aunt tried all sorts of treatments and miscarried multiple times, then turned to adoption. They have a lovely little boy and they're over the moon, and have said outright that waiting too long was a hidden blessing.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Date: 6/9/2010 4:49:32 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 6/8/2010 8:36:21 PM

Author: audball

Date: 6/8/2010 8:08:36 PM


Author: Cehrabehra


I know people who have regretted not having children but I''ve never met anyone who regretted having children.

I have met a couple who deeply regrets having a child and resent her like nothing I''ve ever seen. She''ll never know this, because they hide it from her, but they have been absolutely miserable with their life since she arrived. They were they couple who had a child because they were scared into thinking they would regret it one day, and now they wish they never had. They take turns coming over to a mutual neighbor''s house (a childless couple) and cry about their decision. Just to get a break. They were a happy couple pre-baby, now, not so much. It''s not for everyone.

Is the child still a baby? How old is the child? I''d be curious to know if they still regret her when she''s grown and able to have discussions with them about things adult to adult.

They will. My BM is 22, and it has only gotten worse with age. We met her parents once, they were lovely people when she was not around, but their distaste for her was VERY clear, even though they did not say or do anything to indicate it.

As for children being magical, Disney world is supposed to be magical too, but it really isn''t for a lot of people, but they would never admit it while they were in the park. About a third of the parents I know regret either having kids or having as many as they did. They are good to them, but I actually think it is fairly common but no one is allowed to say, like the woman in France. I have NO doubt that it will be magical for me, but it really isn''t universal.

 

[Liane]

Date: 6/9/2010 2:11:57 PM
Author: brazen_irish_hussy
As for children being magical, Disney world is supposed to be magical too, but it really isn''t for a lot of people, but they would never admit it while they were in the park. About a third of the parents I know regret either having kids or having as many as they did. They are good to them, but I actually think it is fairly common but no one is allowed to say, like the woman in France. I have NO doubt that it will be magical for me, but it really isn''t universal.

Yes, thank you. I wrote four or five posts in this thread trying to say that without ranting and failed miserably, so I''m glad you were able to say it for me.

If parenting is "magical" for you, great. Your kids are fortunate to have parents who want them and love them. Not all children (or parents) are so lucky, and many of them are in that situation because they mistakenly believed that having kids = super magical happiness. And then, in the worst cases, I end up dealing with them at work.

It''s not universal. That myth causes real harm.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 6/9/2010 4:07:15 PM
Author: Liane

If parenting is 'magical' for you, great. Your kids are fortunate to have parents who want them and love them. Not all children (or parents) are so lucky, and many of them are in that situation because they mistakenly believed that having kids = super magical happiness. And then, in the worst cases, I end up dealing with them at work.


It's not universal. That myth causes real harm.

Well said, from you and BIH both.

I was reflecting on this topic and realized that yes, I do know people who admitted regretting having them/advised me not to have them. Usually coworkers at my old job, they'd ask if if I was married, and then if I had kids. When I said no, they'd often reply "Good. Don't." or give me advice not to have them for the sake of my sanity/happiness. Most of them were young, or unwed, or divorced. The divorcees werre predictably the ones the most bitter, perhaps due to getting sucked into the myth? I know lots of people who had, or were, the 'rescue baby' who was born to 'save' a marriage in it's dying throes.

The people who warned me not to have them all expressed their love for their kids, but there was a definite vibe of regretting that things had turned out the way they did.

I suspect that people's backgrounds and socio-economic status will have a huge impact on whether they view kids as being 'magical' or as a hardship. Parenting has to be that much harder if you can't afford your kids.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/9/2010 10:06:31 AM
Author: waterlilly


Agreed.

According to one article I read, it is estimated to take $259,000 to raise a child to the age of 18 (NOT including college). So, if we choose not to have kids, I won''t need to worry about the lack of ''care'' they might give me when I''m older, I''ll have a big fat retirement fund for that. Why would a parent expect to burden their child with such a thing? As if having a child means you have created some future care taker for you? I can''t think of a more selfish reason for having children!

How many people do you know ''hang out'' with their parents? My parents have their own friends/social circle - it doesn''t include me!

My husband, and I love it. My own mother I am taking to Hawaii for her 70th birthday this year and while I don''t normally hang out with her, I love to be around her.

As for the deathbed thing, my father, while living practically his whole life as a jerk, still had all of his at his deathbed. He was lucky.

Anyway, Galateia, I agree that socioeconomic status has something to do with the magic or not. I think that if you can afford your kids and the activities they do, it makes life a lot more fun and happy.

Also a factor in the magic or not, IMHO, is whether one is simply a capable person or not, and the inherent nature of that person''s disposition. Some people may not want to be parents, and then it happens, and they tackle it like anything else they do in their lives. With determination, responsibility, optimism, and vigor. Even though it''s grueling, I would have a hard time believing a person of that nature wouldn''t be able to find that magic.

However if one isn''t really capable of handling themselves or their responsibilities well pre-child, I think the magic is more elusive as they struggle to find their footing and how to manage a child.

In order to enjoy something, I think you have to be able to manage it (and manage yet again when things don''t turn out the way you expect). It''s hard to enjoy anything when it''s spinning out of control. Which is precisely why I say come back and talk to me when my child is a teenager.

 

[Kaleigh]

Tgal,
I have HUGE respect for you as a Mom. You will be fine with A as a teenager, because you are level headed... Communication is key.. Well it worked for me, and am loving having DD home.. She and I have the best time.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/9/2010 4:07:15 PM
Author: Liane

Date: 6/9/2010 2:11:57 PM

Author: brazen_irish_hussy

As for children being magical, Disney world is supposed to be magical too, but it really isn''t for a lot of people, but they would never admit it while they were in the park. About a third of the parents I know regret either having kids or having as many as they did. They are good to them, but I actually think it is fairly common but no one is allowed to say, like the woman in France. I have NO doubt that it will be magical for me, but it really isn''t universal.

Yes, thank you. I wrote four or five posts in this thread trying to say that without ranting and failed miserably, so I''m glad you were able to say it for me.

If parenting is ''magical'' for you, great. Your kids are fortunate to have parents who want them and love them. Not all children (or parents) are so lucky, and many of them are in that situation because they mistakenly believed that having kids = super magical happiness. And then, in the worst cases, I end up dealing with them at work.

It''s not universal. That myth causes real harm.

It isn''t universal, but it''s vastly and overwhelmingly common. That said, I think you should have ranted! I don''t have ANYTHING personally at stake to whether anyone has children or not, I''m not a recruiter and I don''t make a commission lol It bears NO impact on me whatsoever and ultimately I really don''t care what people choose.

What I said was an attempt to give INSIGHT into how many, dare I say the vast majority, of people feel about having children and WHY they want to wish them upon you. WHY they want so dearly for their beloved friend, daughter, coworker to experience what THEY feel. I never claimed it was universal. Romantic love isn''t universal - and yet when it happens, it''s magical. And parents will tell you the love they feel for their children (almost universally) is greater than that of the love they feel for their partner. So when people don''t understand why you wouldn''t want children it''s even more confounding than to hear someone say they never want to fall in love. If you have never BEEN in love how can you say you wouldn''t like it? Feel fulfilled by it? It''s the same concept but magnified a hundred fold.

I am not trying to sell anyone on having children. It really makes no difference to me and we''re all grown ups and need to make these choices for ourselves. Unfortunately there is no trial run with children the way you can trial run relationships. Borrowing children for a day or a week does not bring you that intense feeling of love and joy the way even a temporary love affair can. The ONLY way to understand how having a child feels is to have one and then there really aren''t give backs, are there? So you make the best choice based on the information you have about your situation and your temperament and you go from there, no regrets, no guilt. I apologize for every mother out there who has pestered you to have children - I only say all of this as a window into where it comes from, emotionally.

I do think it is fairly common to think that parenting sucks. I think it sucks. I love being a mommy - and it makes ENDURING the parenting worth it. totally worth it. But it sucks. I don''t think I''m great at it. I think I''m average at it. I don''t think my children benefit more than any other average person for how I parent them... but they are fully loved and they fully know that. Parenting is NOT magical. It is mundane, tedious, gross, challenging, time consuming, defeating, and occasionally rewarding. As a job it''s one of the hardest there is and not necessarily as gratifying as an equal amount of effort elsewhere would be. I think that if people know that isn''t for them, then absolutely they shouldn''t do it. Without question. Without doubt. Without guilt OR regret. The magic part is quite largely hormonal, like love, but even more intense because the hormones and instincts surrounding an offspring are so unique and the love is so overwhelming and physical and protective.

I say all of this like I said, as a window, as an insight into WHY all of those people who love you so much cannot understand why you wouldn''t want a love like that of your own. Everyone feels different of course, there are all sorts of individual nuances and some people are just better at it than others.

Also - there is no good reason to have children. Really there''s not at all. There''s no right time, there''s no right amount of money, there''s no line anywhere ever that divides "ready" from "not ready". It is an absolutely selfish thing to have a child, and the hopes that you will have a life long and healthy relationship with them are not unique to the few who mentioned it here. There are no guarantees, but how is that different from anything else in life?

One more time, just in case I wasn''t clear lol - This is not an infomercial to have children, it is a glimpse into why some people don''t understand why you wouldn''t want one. That is all

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/9/2010 5:48:19 PM
Author: Galateia

Date: 6/9/2010 4:07:15 PM

Author: Liane


If parenting is ''magical'' for you, great. Your kids are fortunate to have parents who want them and love them. Not all children (or parents) are so lucky, and many of them are in that situation because they mistakenly believed that having kids = super magical happiness. And then, in the worst cases, I end up dealing with them at work.



It''s not universal. That myth causes real harm.

Well said, from you and BIH both.


I was reflecting on this topic and realized that yes, I do know people who admitted regretting having them/advised me not to have them. Usually coworkers at my old job, they''d ask if if I was married, and then if I had kids. When I said no, they''d often reply ''Good. Don''t.'' or give me advice not to have them for the sake of my sanity/happiness. Most of them were young, or unwed, or divorced. The divorcees werre predictably the ones the most bitter, perhaps due to getting sucked into the myth? I know lots of people who had, or were, the ''rescue baby'' who was born to ''save'' a marriage in it''s dying throes.


The people who warned me not to have them all expressed their love for their kids, but there was a definite vibe of regretting that things had turned out the way they did.


I suspect that people''s backgrounds and socio-economic status will have a huge impact on whether they view kids as being ''magical'' or as a hardship. Parenting has to be that much harder if you can''t afford your kids.

I''ve told people before not to have 3 kids lol Two is plenty... I have 3 kids. I don''t regret any of them - which would I choose to get rid of? I guess I chose to get rid of #4 who COULD HAVE BEEN but isn''t. In some other plane of reality that person''s potential exists and will never, ever be. It is much easier to never go there than to wish to go back. It doesn''t work that way.

Also, the two are inseparable, but I do differentiate between being a parent and being a mommy. One is a job and one is a gift. The job part isn''t magical - it''s the part that people say RUN AWAY AND DON''T COME HERE IT''S GROSS AND LACKS PROFIT!!! The mommy part is the magical part that makes the job worth it. I don''t doubt that some never feel the magic... and I cannot guarantee that anyone will. I have no vested interest in anyone becoming a parent, but I do wish I could bestow the magical love on their lives. I wish I could bestow it on me without the work lol I hear that''s what being a grandparent is like

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/9/2010 6:53:46 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Tgal,

I have HUGE respect for you as a Mom. You will be fine with A as a teenager, because you are level headed... Communication is key.. Well it worked for me, and am loving having DD home.. She and I have the best time.

I agree... my daughter will be 16 next month and I think the preteen years were harder. They grow more and more lucid to the world around them and more able to have rational discussions. I think having a good sense of humor about everything, including negative consequences, has a wonderful impact on communication. You have to be firm, but firm and funny diffuses a lot in my experience. Maybe it''s just my whackadoodle kiddos.

And I am also of the mind that as much as our children will always need the parent in us, I think it''s very healthy to transition to a friend relationship as they reach adulthood. I don''t want my daughter to only seek me out for holidays or parental advice. I want to have a relationship with her that does cross over into friendship. I would love for her to be a part of my social circle and include her friends as well. Not that they''ll always want to hang out with the fogies, but I''d like it to be a pleasant option

 

[waterlilly]

I wonder if there is a tool somewhere - a way to calculate if you could comfortably raise a child based on your location and income...would be interesting to check out. Sort of like a mortgage calculator...

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/9/2010 7:36:11 PM
Author: waterlilly
I wonder if there is a tool somewhere - a way to calculate if you could comfortably raise a child based on your location and income...would be interesting to check out. Sort of like a mortgage calculator...

It would be tough I think... my husband earns WAY more now - almost 9x - what he made when we had our daughter. We were broke when we had her! You''d have to have earning projections too. If you wait until you already have the money it can be too late.

 

[Liane]

Trust me, if you have kids, you do not want to hear me ranting on the topic. The thoughts that go through my brain are the kind that get you a quick invitation to a nice padded cell with a stylin'' white jacket.

However, I do wish I''d had the chance to ask you to beta-read my first book before it came out. I''ve been told (and I think it''s true) that I didn''t do a very realistic job on some aspects of the babies in the books because I just don''t know that much about how real babies behave. Some parts I got right (for better or worse, I know a lot about shaken babies'' brain damage), other parts maybe not so much.

Oh well, too late now. But in reading this thread, I think I''d have done a better job if I''d turned to PS for tips.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/9/2010 8:25:47 PM
Author: Liane
Trust me, if you have kids, you do not want to hear me ranting on the topic. The thoughts that go through my brain are the kind that get you a quick invitation to a nice padded cell with a stylin'' white jacket.

However, I do wish I''d had the chance to ask you to beta-read my first book before it came out. I''ve been told (and I think it''s true) that I didn''t do a very realistic job on some aspects of the babies in the books because I just don''t know that much about how real babies behave. Some parts I got right (for better or worse, I know a lot about shaken babies'' brain damage), other parts maybe not so much.


Oh well, too late now. But in reading this thread, I think I''d have done a better job if I''d turned to PS for tips.

Actually I think I would be interested to hear it - I kind of think it''s easier to take radically different views on things than to take slightly different ones sometimes - it''s easier to say okay this doesn''t relate to me lol I can only vouch for how I feel and all of my ramblings are just an attempt to describe something, not sell it. I don''t enjoy being a parent that much, it frustrates me and overwhelms me and I think I am by nature way too self centered to do the best job at it. But the love part is like a symbiotic self centered thing where nurturing them is nurturing myself. Anyway, I dirgress lol I am curious what you read or learned here today that changes how you think about.. I''m not sure what - I haven''t read your book!

 

[galeteia]

Date: 6/9/2010 8:25:47 PM
Author: Liane
Trust me, if you have kids, you do not want to hear me ranting on the topic. The thoughts that go through my brain are the kind that get you a quick invitation to a nice padded cell with a stylin' white jacket.

S'up my homie in the next cell! Hifive to my sistah. Too bad we can't sneak off for some spleen-venting that would make parents' heads explode.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/9/2010 9:34:53 PM
Author: Galateia

Date: 6/9/2010 8:25:47 PM

Author: Liane

Trust me, if you have kids, you do not want to hear me ranting on the topic. The thoughts that go through my brain are the kind that get you a quick invitation to a nice padded cell with a stylin'' white jacket.

S''up my homie in the next cell! Hifive to my sistah. Too bad we can''t sneak off for some spleen-venting that would make parents'' heads explode.

I don''t see why you hold back - I don''t think people who want kids will be offended, SOMEone has to perpetuate the species

Personally I think I''d be entertained!

 

[RaiKai]

Date: 6/9/2010 11:06:34 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 6/9/2010 9:34:53 PM

Author: Galateia

Date: 6/9/2010 8:25:47 PM



Author: Liane



Trust me, if you have kids, you do not want to hear me ranting on the topic. The thoughts that go through my brain are the kind that get you a quick invitation to a nice padded cell with a stylin'' white jacket.

S''up my homie in the next cell! Hifive to my sistah. Too bad we can''t sneak off for some spleen-venting that would make parents'' heads explode.

I don''t see why you hold back - I don''t think people who want kids will be offended, SOMEone has to perpetuate the species

Personally I think I''d be entertained!

Yes, and even those who have had them often spent years not wanting them or being on the fence about it and thinking many of the same sorts of things!

My head does not easily explode at hearing others opinions whether they fit for my own life or not!

 

[redfaerythinker]

Sometimes this child or no child debate reminds me strongly of the "come to Jesus" moment. I am Catholic, and we don't "find" Jesus, we prefer to think that we never lost him to begin with. But I cannot express how irritating it is when people walk up to me and harass me about finding Jesus and accepting him as my lord and savior. I mean kudos for you, but that's just not the way we do things. The child debate is the same way. When people are constantly beating you over the head with the wonders of their little snot nosed darlings, it tends to just make people want to run the other way. My advice to the mothers of the world... show me with your happiness, not with your words, and we'll all be a lot happier.

ETA: Hey Galateia, got room in that cell for one more?

 

[swingirl]

Having kids is like ordering a custom ring from Leon. You may love it sight unseen, you may be disappointed that it didn''t turn out the way you envisioned, you may wish you could make a few tiny changes (but he won''t let you) or you may just realize it was the biggest mistake ever.

Unfortunately Leon doesn''t remake his rings and he doesn''t take returns--just like having kids, no returns.

 

[partgypsy]

I can see both sides, where I can be the mother who asks herself why did I do this, sleep deprived dealing with a child with ear infection up 3 nights in a row so you can''t see straight, feeling like I''ve taken years off my life and the rest of my identity sloughed off in service of taking care of this - creature. And then I can have a day of being at the swimming pool watching my youngest learn how to put her head under the water and hold her breath. Sitting in a big chair with my older daughter telling her stories about her namesake making her eyes widen in wonder. Spending the evening watching Escape to witch mountain, watching them jumping up and cheer when the kids prevail over the adults, remembering doing the exactly same thing when I was a kid. And that can be just 2 days out of one''s life.

I can be both the evagenlical about it, or the person who regrets my choice, or at least wonders what it would have been like had I not made this decision. But whether you regret not having children, or regret having them, I don''t think it''s really healthy to dwell there.

Life is what it is, good, bad or mixed up together. We have less control over it than we think. Might as well enjoy the ride whatever the view might be.

 

[beezygal]

interesting topic...

I''m not engaged yet, hopefully by the end of this summer.

I''m turning 26 in 3 months. I always picture myself to be married by 26/27... and.. have kids by 29/30. I told my mom about my "plan." She was telling me I shouldn''t wait too long and kinda let nature takes its course. She didn''t have me until many many years after she married my dad. They went to different doctors and they couldn''t tell them what was wrong. Then, after a VERY long time (I forgot how long.. maybe 7 years), I''m me!

I remember mom telling me she wanted to give me a little sibling... but.. it just didn''t work. So, I''m the only child. My mom keeps on telling me... just because I want to have kids by 30, doesn''t mean I''ll have one right away then. It might take a few years. Hearing you guys talk about it, it makes me think... hard...