Alberto Gonzales Lied to the Senate. Does Anyone Care?

[Rank Amateur]

Date: 2/3/2006 4:17:55 AM
Author: AGBF

Who made the damned law that the Capitol grounds were sacrosanct?

I dunno who made the law but I bet it's seen around for quite a while. You'd have to admit that the place would be a zoo if they allow every kook with a tee shirt and a ticket to "demonstrate".

And cut with the melodrama. It's not like Cindy hasn't had plenty of face time on the news for her demonstrations. The media ate her up. She was EVERYWHERE. Bleh.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004425.htm <----- right-wing nutjob view

 

[colormyworld]

Auther: aljbewey, dated 2/1/06 8:32 PM

But I certainly would call police if she decided to express herself by coming into my home and offending me by pushing her views at me.

Aljbewey just whose house was she in? Is this not THE PEOPLES HOUSE!!!
Who was she offending ? What was offensive about the message on her shirt?"

 

[fire&ice]

I akin a t-shirt to carrying a sign. That''s what the police were interpreting. They over-reacted and came out and said so.

Rules are rules. We spout about freedom of speech. We have it - but it''s all within good reason & respect. If she didn''t respect the president, she shouldn''t have been in his house.

 

[movie zombie]

f&i says: ''Rules are rules. We spout about freedom of speech. We have it - but it''s all within good reason & respect. If she didn''t respect the president, she shouldn''t have been in his house.''

we will have to agree to disagree because as i see it:

1-its not his house, its ''OUR'' house.
2-agree that rules is rules; however, there is not a dress code in place for ''the gallery''......yet.
3-no rule was broken or the police wouldn''t have issued an apology to BOTH Mrs. Young and Ms. Sheehan: both were invited by members of Congress to be guests.
4-freedom of speech does not require that the president be respected.

movie zombie

 

[colormyworld]

His house, his city, his country, his world. Me thinks we are in trouble!

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/4/2006 4:58:20 PM
Author: movie zombie

f&i says: ''Rules are rules. We spout about freedom of speech. We have it - but it''s all within good reason & respect. If she didn''t respect the president, she shouldn''t have been in his house.''

we will have to agree to disagree because as i see it:

1-its not his house, its ''OUR'' house.
2-agree that rules is rules; however, there is not a dress code in place for ''the gallery''......yet.
3-no rule was broken or the police wouldn''t have issued an apology to BOTH Mrs. Young and Ms. Sheehan: both were invited by members of Congress to be guests.
4-freedom of speech does not require that the president be respected.

movie zombie

O.K. - let me try this again. It''s our house - agreed. I never said that freedom of speech requires that the the pres - any pres is to be respected. Reason & Respect is for ANY thought put out there. It just wasn''t appropriate & was interpreted at the time as such. Time, place, method for protest/freedom of speech.

Really, you can''t equate a "slogan" worn is equal to a "dress code". It a political statement - not a fashion statement. They shouldn''t have over-reacted. But, sheehan was arrested for failing to do as the police asked her to - not for simply wearing the t-shirt.

At the end of the day, this is a ridiculous disscussion. My point about Jerry Rubin, et al was that at least they had a flair for the dramatic & didn''t go around passive agressive w/ a dopey t-shirt. I feel sorry that she lost her son - but she is being proped up by supporters of her sentiments.

My whole thing about "his" house - which is being blown WAY out of the proportions of which it was meant - rules are rules. You break them in someone''s "house rules" you can''t stay.

Let''s just agree to disagree as we really aren''t disagreeing - just a different perspective. The strangest thing is that neither t-shirt was political - just fact.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/3/2006 5:56:10 PM
Author: colormyworld
Auther: aljbewey, dated 2/1/06 8:32 PM

But I certainly would call police if she decided to express herself by coming into my home and offending me by pushing her views at me.

Aljbewey just whose house was she in? Is this not THE PEOPLES HOUSE!!!
Who was she offending ? What was offensive about the message on her shirt?'

Yes, color, the White House is the People's House. And since it is, I suggest you pack an overnight bag, show up on the doorstep, and demand an overnight stay in "YOUR" house.....and see where that gets you.

Honestly, a little common sense goes a long way. Public schools belong to us. Public libraries belong to us. Public government buildings (courthouses, etc) belong to us. Fine. That does NOT mean that society doesn't agree to a set of rules regarding those things.....among them appropriate behavior.

If you go to the public library and play loud music and start break dancing, I guarantee you will be ejected.

If you attend a trial at a public courthouse, and you do something that YOU may not feel is inappropriate but the bailiff or judge might deem inappropriate, guess what happens? YEP - out on your can.

The police reacted to what they believed at the time was an inappropriate display. Whether they were right or wrong, Sheehan's response was NOT to respond....but to ignore. That is not how our civilized society is structured to work.

 

[AGBF]

Much as I hate to leave the fruitful topic of how I would be received if I packed my nightie and showed up at the White House, the Senate is doing some things which bear watching .

The Art of Saying Nothing


"We thought President Bush's two recent Supreme Court nominees set new lows when it came to giving vague and meaningless answers to legitimate questions, but Attorney General Alberto Gonzales made them look like models of openness when he testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Monday about domestic spying.

...


On the absurd pretext of safeguarding operational details, Mr. Gonzales would not say whether any purely domestic communications had been swept up in the program by accident and what, if anything, had been done to make sure that did not happen. He actually refused to assure the Senate and the public that the administration had not deliberately tapped Americans' calls and e-mail within the United States, or searched their homes and offices without warrants.

Mr. Gonzales repeated Mr. Bush's claim that the program of intercepting e-mail and telephone calls to and from the United States without the legally required warrants was set up in a way that protects Americans' rights. But he would not say what those safeguards were, how wiretaps were approved or how the program was reviewed. He even refused to say whether it had led to a single arrest.

...

Generally, Mr. Gonzales stuck to the same ludicrous arguments the administration has continually offered for sidestepping the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which expressly forbids warrantless spying on people in the United States. He said that the president could make his own rules in time of war and that Congress had authorized warrantless spying in giving the president the authority to invade Afghanistan. Only the panel's most blindly loyal Republicans bought that argument.

To his credit, Mr. Specter pressed the attorney general hard on a legal position that, he said, 'just defies logic and plain English.' Mr. Specter forcefully pointed out that this isn't just an issue of public relations, but of the bedrock democratic principle of checks and balances.

...


Mr. Gonzales seemed to brush off this idea, something that should surprise no one since Mr. Bush clearly sees no limit to his powers. But even Bush loyalists on the Senate panel seemed at least faintly troubled.

...

One hopeful sign of nonpartisan sanity came from the House yesterday. Representative Heather Wilson, the New Mexico Republican who heads the subcommittee that supervises the National Security Agency, told The Times that she had 'serious concerns' about the spying and wanted a full investigation. With Karl Rove reported to be threatening Election Day revenge against anyone who breaks ranks on this issue, Ms. Wilson deserves support for a principled stand."


Deb

 

[movie zombie]

i listened to the majority of mr. g''s testimony and i was so appalled that during the course of the day i found myself calling my two senators in their washington offices to register my concerns.

movie zombie

 

[AGBF]

Do you want to laugh or cry?

Illegal and Inept

"While testifying about the Bush administration's warrantless eavesdropping program, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales was asked to explain how the program had been damaged by the disclosure of its existence in the press.

Senator Joseph Biden suggested that Al Qaeda operatives have most likely been aware for some time that the government is trying to intercept their phone calls.

Mr. Gonzales agreed. 'You would assume that the enemy is presuming that we are engaged in some kind of surveillance,' he said. 'But if they're not reminded about it all the time in newspapers and in stories, they sometimes forget.'

Senator Biden managed to laugh. Probably to keep from crying. This was the attorney general of the United States speaking, yet another straight man for an administration that has raised governing to new heights of witlessness"

 

[movie zombie]

deb, it was amazing to listen to: this guy actually thinks that the president is above the law.
i''m fortunate to live in an area that has a radio station not run by a corporation. they took a break from their normal programing and broadcast the entire thing.
f***ing depressing.

movie zombie

 

[AGBF]

Date: 2/9/2006 4:53:58 PM
Author: movie zombie
deb, it was amazing to listen to

Indeed , it must have been! If the enemy isn''t reminded by newspapers that the government may be watching them, they may FORGET!!!??

 

[movie zombie]

perhaps mr g and crew think the enemy is as forgetful as the american public.


movie zombie

 

[AGBF]

Let''s get back to basics. This is how this thread started...and there has been some news today of which everyone should be aware. I will post some excerpts about today''s news below.

Date: 2/1/2006 2:29:45 PM
Author:AGBF



Well, now we know that Alberto Gonzales, currently Attorney General of the United States, lied to the senate during his confirmation hearings.


Is he going to be removed from office? President Clinton, remember, was impeached for allegedly lying!


Mr. Gonzales was aware of the illegal wiretapping program Mr. Bush was conducting via the NSA, but he told the Senate that he knew of no such program. He L-I-E-D!


When is this country finally going to decide that it is NOT OK for the President to do whatever he chooses and that his lying about what he is doing (and having his staff lie) is unaccaptable because there are THREE branches of government for a reason! The executive branch is drunk with power. It is up to us to sober it up! If we end up with a domestic tyrant, it is because we slept through the warning signals!


Read this, and, if you care about America, WEEP!!!


A Sad, Sad Story


Deborah

 

[AGBF]

Congress Demands Phone Records Answers​

"Lawmakers demanded answers from the Bush administration Thursday about a spy agency secretly collecting records of millions of ordinary Americans' phone calls to build a database of all calls within the country.

...

'The government does not listen to domestic phone calls without court approval,' said Bush, without confirming the program of the National Security Agency. 'We're not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans.'


The disclosure, reported in USA Today, could complicate Bush's bid to win confirmation of former National Security Agency Director Michael Hayden as CIA director. It also reignited concerns about privacy rights and touched off questions about the legal underpinnings for the government's actions and the diligence of the Republican-controlled Congress' oversight of a GOP administration.

...

AT&T Corp., Verizon Communications Inc., and BellSouth Corp. telephone companies began turning over records of tens of millions of their customers' phone calls to the NSA program shortly after Sept. 11, 2001, said USA Today, citing anonymous sources it said had direct knowledge of the arrangement.


On Capitol Hill, several lawmakers expressed incredulity about the program, with some Republicans questioning the rationale and several Democrats railing about a lack of congressional oversight.

'I'm not sure why it would be necessary to keep and have that kind of information,' said House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, who wanted more details.

House Democrats called for a special counsel to investigate the NSA's activities.

West Virginia Sen. Jay Rockefeller, the top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee who is to be briefed on all NSA activities, said, 'Current congressional oversight is woefully inadequate.'

One big telecommunications company, Qwest Communications International Inc., has refused to turn over records to the program, the newspaper said, because of privacy and legal concerns."

 

[AGBF]

To recap:

The government reportedly now has a record of every phone number called by every phone in the United States. (That was what was said in a report I heard on the radio.) I do not know whether Qwest customers'' calls were tracked in some way or not. EVERY citizen-not those citizens suspected of terrorism-has had a list of all his phone calls handed over to the government by the phone company of whom he is a paying customer.

Am I alone in feeling Big Brother is watching?

 

[AGBF]

This is an excerpt from, "The New York Times" on the secret Bush plan to create a massive data base of all calls made by all Americans.

"...Democrats reacted angrily to the USA Today article and its description of the program''s vast size, including an assertion by one unnamed source that its goal was the creation of a database of every phone call ever made within the United States'' borders.

''Are you telling me that tens of millions of Americans are involved with Al Qaeda?'' Senator Patrick J. Leahy of Vermont, the committee''s ranking minority member, asked angrily.

Like Mr. Specter, Mr. Leahy made a link between the new charge and the administration''s refusal to answer the many of the committee''s questions about the security agency''s warrantless wiretaps of calls between the United States and overseas in which one person is suspected of terrorist ties.

''It''s our government, our government!''he said, turning red in the face and waving a copy of USA Today. ''It''s not one party''s government, it''s America''s government!''

Other Democrats demanded that the administration officials, including Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez and former Attorney General John Ashcroft, be subpoenaed to testify under oath about both programs.

 

[Mr Majestyk]

My brother and I are Jewish. We have "pet" names for each other, Arab names in fact. We call each other and use these names. We also exchange cassette tapes on which we share news, and do monologs in various dialects for amusement, again using the Arab names. We rarely discuss politics, but family stuff, employment stuff, etc. We may send one of these tapes to the FBI. It will keep them busy trying to decode the terrorist agenda hidden in it.

I was beating the dust out of a rug yesterday. I hung it on the clothesline, and beat it with a baseball bat, yelling, "Tell me where Bin Laden is! I know you are hiding him...."

I hope no one heard me.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Date: 5/11/2006 7:05:36 PM
Author: AGBF

Am I alone in feeling Big Brother is watching?

I feel that your sopping dislike for Bush may, just perhaps, be clouding your view on this issue. IF you surround yourself with more like-minded anti-Bushies you''ll never walk alone.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 5/12/2006 5:34:31 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
IF you surround yourself with more like-minded anti-Bushies you'll never walk alone.

Well, God knows, no one can accuse me of doing that at least. My husband claims that the only thing to the right of him is the wall and our next door neighbors here in Virginia, who have become our dear friends, looooove George Bush.

I endure political discussions in silence because people matter to me more than discussing politics. (But I do want to gag!) And I also feel that I would resent this egregious invasion of privacy even if Ted Kennedy and Patrick Leahy were in the White House.

 

[movie zombie]

in december, 2005 bush said he was not spying on americans and that only international calls were being monitored. another lie. do we honestly believe there are 10 million terrorists in the US? well, i guess if you include those quakers who are peace activists, perhaps maybe. shades of cointelpro have come back to haunt us.

movie zombie

 

[Mr Majestyk]

Next Monday PM Bush is making a speech. It may preempt or delay airing of the season finale of Prison Break, which is much more interesting, better written, and better acted.