Ageism

[merrijoy]

Anyone have any knowledge/insight/experience with ageism? Unfortunately, my parents never had real "careers" where they established themselves. Not to say that they have not worked, but well, money is tough for them. I am very worried to say the least. They are now in their late 60s/early 70s and still looking for work.

. It is hard already in the work force, let alone be that late on in life and not being up to date with technology, memory lagging, can''t see small writing, etc, etc. Now it seems my dad is facing ageism. I researched it a bit and it looks like it is very hard to prove when looking for employment (easier to prove when already working somewhere).
Maybe there is someone here who has had similar experience or possibly any lawyers? Thank you in advance. I am really scared of all the horror stories we are hearing lately.

 

[Maisie]

I don''t have any advice to offer. I just wanted to say how sorry I am that things are so tough for your parents.

 

[merrijoy]

Date: 3/22/2010 8:40:51 PM
Author: Maisie
I don''t have any advice to offer. I just wanted to say how sorry I am that things are so tough for your parents.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Truly.

 

[kenny]

Self employment may be something to look into.

 

[merrijoy]

Date: 3/22/2010 9:04:08 PM
Author: kenny
Self employment may be something to look into.

Thank you. My dad has tried that recently and also years ago. Is there any particular business you have in mind?

 

[kenny]

They'd have to follow their passion and skills.

How bout a temp employment agency specializing in aging people?

 

[merrijoy]

Date: 3/22/2010 9:09:58 PM
Author: kenny
They''d have to follow their passion and skills.

Passion and skills takes a lot of time as many will attest to. When you are in desperate need of money, it is hard to let your mind calm down enough to focus that way, unfortunately.

 

[merrijoy]

Date: 3/22/2010 9:09:58 PM
Author: kenny
They''d have to follow their passion and skills.

How bout a temp employment agency specializing in aging people?

I tried this route for them. I called but a lot of the places they put you in touch with will pay very minimal and not enough to cover their bills - mortgage, groceries, medicine, etc.

 

[yssie]

Merrijoy, I think you - they - need to honestly answer some questions first.



1. What do they want to do, in an ideal world?
2. What skills do they have?
3. Physically, how able-bodied are they? Can they drive? Need special workplace accomodations?
4. Mentally, how quickly can they learn / pick up new skills?
5. Realistically, how much time, effort, and expense can they put into learning any new skills?



I don't know anything about their situation obviously, but I'll throw this out there - if they can type and are willing to learn some computer stuff/programming, the only resources needed are books from the library and the internet on a home PC, and there's a ton of consulting temp work out there on the web that pay quite well. My mum likes picking out fun projects for herself on the side, I believe my grandfather did for extra cash, and I've done it too - it can pay quite well and it's quick cash. Whatever they choose, the first step is to stop thinking of themselves as victims of ageism.

 

[PumpkinPie]

I don''t have much advice for you either - except to ask if your state? province? government has an employment standards department - perhaps they could be useful?
I do want to offer you and your parents my support - this really sucks

 

[merrijoy]

Date: 3/22/2010 9:59:56 PM
Author: yssie
Merrijoy, I think you - they - need to honestly answer some questions first.



1. What do they want to do, in an ideal world?
2. What skills do they have?
3. Physically, how able-bodied are they? Can they drive? Need special workplace accomodations?
4. Mentally, how quickly can they learn / pick up new skills?
5. Realistically, how much time, effort, and expense can they put into learning any new skills?



I don''t know anything about their situation obviously, but I''ll throw this out there - if they can type and are willing to learn some computer stuff/programming, the only resources needed are books from the library and the internet on a home PC, and there''s a ton of consulting temp work out there on the web that pay quite well. My mum likes picking out fun projects for herself on the side, I believe my grandfather did for extra cash, and I''ve done it too - it can pay quite well and it''s quick cash. Whatever they choose, the first step is to stop thinking of themselves as victims of ageism.

yssie,

Thank you. I have actually asked them some of these questions. I have fought with my mom just to learn how to use a computer. In her earlier years, she was great with a typewriter though. My dad did a little bit of programming in the early 80s. Now he likes to play around with excel to try to learn functions in excel and he seems to enjoy sending those email forwards.

My parents can both drive, although my mom seems to be more and more fearful. It is very sad for me because this age is meant for retirement, not to try to figure out how to make ends meet.

Can you please point me in the direction of these web opportunities you found? I am sure my dad would love to have a look at that!!!

 

[merrijoy]

Date: 3/22/2010 10:08:58 PM
Author: Maevie
I don''t have much advice for you either - except to ask if your state? province? government has an employment standards department - perhaps they could be useful?
I do want to offer you and your parents my support - this really sucks

Thanks Maevie,

The jobs that my dad are looking at are sales jobs. Some of them do not even say what they sell in the job ad. I am not sure these jobs are even governed?

I directed them towards working for the Census. They went to take the test and both struggled with it. They should have studied before, but I think my mom would have struggled no matter what. I took it that night without studying and got a 70%, and I am not 70 years old.

 

[merrijoy]

And to be fair, if this was 20+ years ago, my parents would have made a great housing construction team. My dad is very handy and my mom is great with interiors. If only it were 20 years ago.

 

[swingirl]

I can''t think of any jobs where you don''t need to see well or remember things. Sounds like they should be in senior housing that is subsidized. Have they considered something like that?

 

[galeteia]

I don''t have any suggestions, but I wanted to say that I deeply empathize with your feelings. My mother has a successful career in complementary health and has built her practice over 30 years, and has chosen to work less so she can maintain joy and health in her life. While she is happy, she cannot afford to retire and I am gripped with worry about her future. She''s 57, and nearing retirement age. It is very unsettling to be in the position of wanting to take care of your parents and being financially unable to.

However, I would gladly, GLADLY support her if I could. I know some parents expect that of their children and that is the last thing on her mind, but it''s so heartbreaking and nerve-wracking to watch the people who nurtured you need nurturing and not being able to provide it.

Thank you for this thread. I have been wondering what I wanted to do with myself as a long-term goal after sacrificing my career to support my SO, and you have helped me realize that what I want to do once he is established in his career and we no longer need my income is to provide for my mother so that I may enjoy her company.

Come to think of it, I currently work in a call center, which isn''t great wages (about 10/hr) but there are many people of retirement age who work there because they are no longer physically fit enough to do other types of jobs. It''s not a great option for your parents, but it''s an option?

 

[VRBeauty]

First, I'm sorry that you and your parents are in this predicament. It must be heart-wrenching for you to see your parents worrying about their survival.

Next, the disclosure. I'm not a lawyer, and I trust someone who is will correct me (

) but...

I don't think it's considered age discrimination if someone is passed over for a job because they can't handle all of the minimum qualifications (familiarity with technology, reasonable memory, for example) or if another applicant is more qualified. It is age discrimination if they're passed over for a position solely because of their age or the costs associated with their age (need for extra time for medical appts? insurance costs?). Some of the limitations you mention -- i.e., the ability to read small writing -- might be considered disabilities for which reasonable accommodation could be expected. Others -- speed in completing tasks, or memory lapses -- would probably be considered legitimate reasons for a business to pass over a candidate, or to favor one candidate over another. Many employers will also take a spotty work history into account, especially it they're able to choose among several qualified candidates. In this economy... many employers probably still have the option of choosing among many qualified (and even over-qualified) candidates.

You've mentioned some of your parents' limitations, but you haven't mentioned the skills and background that they would have to offer a prospective employer. PS'ers are a resourceful and creative bunch... they might have some good ideas to offer if they knew more about your parents.

Combining a few of the previous responses... do you think your parents might consider e-bay sales as a way to earn some extra money while they're looking for the right jobs?

 

[merrijoy]

Date: 3/22/2010 11:27:24 PM
Author: swingirl
I can't think of any jobs where you don't need to see well or remember things. Sounds like they should be in senior housing that is subsidized. Have they considered something like that?

Thanks. I am sure they are not thinking that at all. They are very able bodied. My dad is pretty active in his building as president.

Writing has gotten tinier lately it seems. Heck, even my eyesight has gotten bad at the ripe old age of 32. I recently set the font on my computer to be over 100%. It is crazy, I actually have a great memory, but the more I learn, the more I forget - ha! I can not imagine how it feels to be 70.

 

[kenny]

Double post.

 

[kenny]

Date: 3/22/2010 9:15:17 PM
Author: merrijoy

Date: 3/22/2010 9:09:58 PM
Author: kenny
They''d have to follow their passion and skills.
How bout a temp employment agency specializing in aging people?

I tried this route for them. I called but a lot of the places they put you in touch with will pay very minimal and not enough to cover their bills - mortgage, groceries, medicine, etc.

I meant for them to start such an agency.

 

[merrijoy]

Date: 3/22/2010 11:46:50 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 3/22/2010 9:15:17 PM
Author: merrijoy

Date: 3/22/2010 9:09:58 PM
Author: kenny
They''d have to follow their passion and skills.
How bout a temp employment agency specializing in aging people?

I tried this route for them. I called but a lot of the places they put you in touch with will pay very minimal and not enough to cover their bills - mortgage, groceries, medicine, etc.

I meant for them to start such an agency.

Thank you for the clarification. But with what funds?

 

[jewelz617]

If this helps at all, I worked as a trainer for many years at a collection agency for education loans.

Collection agencies LOVE hiring older people, for one very simple reason: People trust them more. It's not great pay to start, but it's usually about 12 bucks an hour plus commission. There are light computer skills involved, but nothing crazy (just entering people's info on pre-made forms). You mostly just need to know what you are collecting, how to arrange payment plans, and talk to people on the phone.

The older people I worked with always made bank, much more so than the young kids straight out of high school or college. Older people tend to be more mellow and sound more knowledgeable and non threatening, which is a huge plus in the collection world. People tend to want to hold a conversation with them. Plus, you get to sit down at your desk, so there is zero physical labor. These jobs are always in demand.

I worked with so many older people who were nervous about finding work, or who had been laid off from jobs. I am still really good friends with many of them. One lady I trained was 72 years old and make $6,000 commission after about 9 months on the job.

People these days are trying to clean up their credit so it won't be as terrible as it sounds haha. It was a great job for me while it lasted, they should seriously look into it.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 3/22/2010 9:59:56 PM
Author: yssie
Merrijoy, I think you - they - need to honestly answer some questions first.




1. What do they want to do, in an ideal world?

2. What skills do they have?

3. Physically, how able-bodied are they? Can they drive? Need special workplace accomodations?

4. Mentally, how quickly can they learn / pick up new skills?

5. Realistically, how much time, effort, and expense can they put into learning any new skills?




I don''t know anything about their situation obviously, but I''ll throw this out there - if they can type and are willing to learn some computer stuff/programming, the only resources needed are books from the library and the internet on a home PC, and there''s a ton of consulting temp work out there on the web that pay quite well. My mum likes picking out fun projects for herself on the side, I believe my grandfather did for extra cash, and I''ve done it too - it can pay quite well and it''s quick cash. Whatever they choose, the first step is to stop thinking of themselves as victims of ageism.

Merrijoy,
completely agree with every point yssie said.

and yssie, get outta my head!

The questions above are very seriously what your parents should be answering (honestly!) - and I mean actually writing them down, and having help with analyzing the answers.
Perhaps there is a community service where they could go to receive help with this?

Do either of them have hobbies or projects that can translate into work skills or jobs?
When you think about it, pretty much every "life role" that we do has a corresponding career / job role.

For example:
parent - experience with child care, cleaning, cooking, driving, time management and organizational skills (to say the least).

Perhaps your mother is into crafts or cooking, your father into home maintenance or electronics? Just random examples, but any of these could translate into a potential job.

I think a good brainstorming session, starting with the above kind of questions yssie mentioned - writing everything down and trying to find some links, could be a good start.

Other topics I would suggest you have them talk / think and then write about:

* work / life roles or responsibilities - life, family, community?
* learning - (not just school). What would they still like to learn?
* Balance - emotional, mental, spiritual, physical needs?
* Interests - what do they like and dislike?
* Gifts, aptitudes, skills - anything they are able to do well / have done well in the past?
* Work connections - any connections or opportunities in the world of work that can help them at this time?

Think outside the box too - perhaps community, church, sporting or other groups can inform the above?

Doing this may feel like an odd exercise to them, but I can promise it will be worthwhile - hopefully it will help them gain some direction and perhaps more self confidence or identify a path they have not considered.

Most importantly - and I do not mean this in a rude sense - but they do need to stop blaming the barriers automatically on ageism.
Going down that path and pursuing litigation etc is in no way going to help them find a job, right? It will just be a negative distraction.

 

[merrijoy]

Date: 3/22/2010 11:49:34 PM
Author: PinkAsscher678
If this helps at all, I worked as a trainer for many years at a collection agency for education loans.

Collection agencies LOVE hiring older people, for one very simple reason: People trust them more. It''s not great pay to start, but it''s usually about 12 bucks an hour plus commission. There are light computer skills involved, but nothing crazy (just entering people''s info on pre-made forms). You mostly just need to know what you are collecting, how to arrange payment plans, and talk to people on the phone.

The older people I worked with always made bank, much more so than the young kids straight out of high school or college. Older people tend to be more mellow and sound more knowledgeable and non threatening, which is a huge plus in the collection world. People tend to want to hold a conversation with them. Plus, you get to sit down at your desk, so there is zero physical labor. These jobs are always in demand.

I worked with so many older people who were nervous about finding work, or who had been laid off from jobs. I am still really good friends with many of them. One lady I trained was 72 years old and make $6,000 commission after about 9 months on the job.

People these days are trying to clean up their credit so it won''t be as terrible as it sounds haha. It was a great job for me while it lasted, they should seriously look into it.

I will look into this for them. Sounds very good. I worry about them a lot and my dad is bravado and stubborn. But I got my stubborness from him, and I will keep trying.. I know that he will think that that amount is not enough for him, but maybe I can talk to my mom about this. The computer skills may scare her. Oh and unfortunately, the state we live in, many, many positions look for bi-lingual and even tri-lingual. That part really stinks as it is very hard to learn a new language as well.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 3/22/2010 11:15:26 PM
Author: merrijoy
And to be fair, if this was 20+ years ago, my parents would have made a great housing construction team. My dad is very handy and my mom is great with interiors. If only it were 20 years ago.

merri, may I ask why you say it this way (as if it''s not possible now)?.
This sounds like it could be a decent option to me.

Can you explain what the limitations are?

 

[merrijoy]

Date: 3/23/2010 12:02:04 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 3/22/2010 11:15:26 PM
Author: merrijoy
And to be fair, if this was 20+ years ago, my parents would have made a great housing construction team. My dad is very handy and my mom is great with interiors. If only it were 20 years ago.

merri, may I ask why you say it this way (as if it''s not possible now)?.
This sounds like it could be a decent option to me.

Can you explain what the limitations are?

Money and energy. Both are limited resources. It takes capital to start a business and we have seen young relatives lose their life savings on the construction business.

. But it would have been fun for them years ago. Unfortunately, we/they have never had the capital.

 

[jewelz617]

Date: 3/22/2010 11:58:54 PM
Author: merrijoy

Date: 3/22/2010 11:49:34 PM

Author: PinkAsscher678

If this helps at all, I worked as a trainer for many years at a collection agency for education loans.


Collection agencies LOVE hiring older people, for one very simple reason: People trust them more. It''s not great pay to start, but it''s usually about 12 bucks an hour plus commission. There are light computer skills involved, but nothing crazy (just entering people''s info on pre-made forms). You mostly just need to know what you are collecting, how to arrange payment plans, and talk to people on the phone.


The older people I worked with always made bank, much more so than the young kids straight out of high school or college. Older people tend to be more mellow and sound more knowledgeable and non threatening, which is a huge plus in the collection world. People tend to want to hold a conversation with them. Plus, you get to sit down at your desk, so there is zero physical labor. These jobs are always in demand.


I worked with so many older people who were nervous about finding work, or who had been laid off from jobs. I am still really good friends with many of them. One lady I trained was 72 years old and make $6,000 commission after about 9 months on the job.


People these days are trying to clean up their credit so it won''t be as terrible as it sounds haha. It was a great job for me while it lasted, they should seriously look into it.

I will look into this for them. Sounds very good. I worry about them a lot and my dad is bravado and stubborn. But I got my stubborness from him, and I will keep trying.. I know that he will think that that amount is not enough for him, but maybe I can talk to my mom about this. The computer skills may scare her. Oh and unfortunately, the state we live in, many, many positions look for bi-lingual and even tri-lingual. That part really stinks as it is very hard to learn a new language as well.

I trained many people that didn''t even have basic typing skills. On average, it took even the most unprepared person about 2-3 weeks to get comfortable. I have traveled to many different agencies for training and almost all those places have bi-lingual "call crossers." It''s these people''s jobs to work the floor and handle calls to non English speaking households. Most agencies hire these positions exclusively to assist the other employees.

I know the pay isn''t ideal, but it can be a really good "starter" or transitional job until something better comes along. And in today''s job market it''s good to have at least a start. And as far as being stubborn... well, for a bill collector, stubborn is GOOD, especially if you''re dealing with a tough client.

 

[merrijoy]

Date: 3/22/2010 11:58:40 PM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 3/22/2010 9:59:56 PM
Author: yssie
Merrijoy, I think you - they - need to honestly answer some questions first.




1. What do they want to do, in an ideal world?

2. What skills do they have?

3. Physically, how able-bodied are they? Can they drive? Need special workplace accomodations?

4. Mentally, how quickly can they learn / pick up new skills?

5. Realistically, how much time, effort, and expense can they put into learning any new skills?




I don''t know anything about their situation obviously, but I''ll throw this out there - if they can type and are willing to learn some computer stuff/programming, the only resources needed are books from the library and the internet on a home PC, and there''s a ton of consulting temp work out there on the web that pay quite well. My mum likes picking out fun projects for herself on the side, I believe my grandfather did for extra cash, and I''ve done it too - it can pay quite well and it''s quick cash. Whatever they choose, the first step is to stop thinking of themselves as victims of ageism.

Merrijoy,
completely agree with every point yssie said.

and yssie, get outta my head!

The questions above are very seriously what your parents should be answering (honestly!) - and I mean actually writing them down, and having help with analyzing the answers.
Perhaps there is a community service where they could go to receive help with this?

Do either of them have hobbies or projects that can translate into work skills or jobs?
When you think about it, pretty much every ''life role'' that we do has a corresponding career / job role.

For example:
parent - experience with child care, cleaning, cooking, driving, time management and organizational skills (to say the least).

Perhaps your mother is into crafts or cooking, your father into home maintenance or electronics? Just random examples, but any of these could translate into a potential job.

I think a good brainstorming session, starting with the above kind of questions yssie mentioned - writing everything down and trying to find some links, could be a good start.

Other topics I would suggest you have them talk / think and then write about:

* work / life roles or responsibilities - life, family, community?
* learning - (not just school). What would they still like to learn?
* Balance - emotional, mental, spiritual, physical needs?
* Interests - what do they like and dislike?
* Gifts, aptitudes, skills - anything they are able to do well / have done well in the past?
* Work connections - any connections or opportunities in the world of work that can help them at this time?

Think outside the box too - perhaps community, church, sporting or other groups can inform the above?

Doing this may feel like an odd exercise to them, but I can promise it will be worthwhile - hopefully it will help them gain some direction and perhaps more self confidence or identify a path they have not considered.

Most importantly - and I do not mean this in a rude sense - but they do need to stop blaming the barriers automatically on ageism.
Going down that path and pursuing litigation etc is in no way going to help them find a job, right? It will just be a negative distraction.

Good points. The difficulty is getting my dad to let go of his machoism and the thoughts that children should never assist or direct their parents or even pose life questions.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 3/23/2010 12:07:25 AM
Author: merrijoy
Good points. The difficulty is getting my dad to let go of his machoism and the thoughts that children should never assist or direct their parents or even pose life questions.

well, I'm sorry to hear that merrijoy. That is difficult indeed.
Perhaps you can do it with your mum and get your dad to come around that way?
Or are there job counseling services they can attend in your area for free?

It does sound like your dad is getting down about it all and hence blaming ageism..
And your mum has some confidence issues..
Basically whether it is you, someone else in the family, a friend, or perhaps a pastor or professional - it does sound like they need assistance to get out of this "funk".

With re to the construction / decorating idea, perhaps they can look for an opportunity with an existing business if they don't have the capital to begin their own?
Both of those businesses require sales associates too (either in a large retail setting or for smaller companies), if they feel they could fulfill that role.

 

[VRBeauty]

Date: 3/23/2010 12:05:19 AM
Author: merrijoy

Date: 3/23/2010 12:02:04 AM

Author: arjunajane

Date: 3/22/2010 11:15:26 PM

Author: merrijoy

And to be fair, if this was 20+ years ago, my parents would have made a great housing construction team. My dad is very handy and my mom is great with interiors. If only it were 20 years ago.

merri, may I ask why you say it this way (as if it''s not possible now)?.

This sounds like it could be a decent option to me.


Can you explain what the limitations are?

Money and energy. Both are limited resources. It takes capital to start a business and we have seen young relatives lose their life savings on the construction business.

. But it would have been fun for them years ago. Unfortunately, we/they have never had the capital.

It sounds as if you parents have the skills to flip houses, or to help entrepreneurs who are investing in and flipping houses.

It also sounds like one of the bigger obstacles they have to deal with may be attitude -- as in their own attitudes.

Good luck.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 3/23/2010 12:32:14 AM
Author: VRBeauty

Date: 3/23/2010 12:05:19 AM

Author: merrijoy

Date: 3/23/2010 12:02:04 AM


Author: arjunajane

Date: 3/22/2010 11:15:26 PM


Author: merrijoy


And to be fair, if this was 20+ years ago, my parents would have made a great housing construction team. My dad is very handy and my mom is great with interiors. If only it were 20 years ago.

merri, may I ask why you say it this way (as if it''s not possible now)?.


This sounds like it could be a decent option to me.



Can you explain what the limitations are?

Money and energy. Both are limited resources. It takes capital to start a business and we have seen young relatives lose their life savings on the construction business.

. But it would have been fun for them years ago. Unfortunately, we/they have never had the capital.

It sounds as if you parents have the skills to flip houses, or to help entrepreneurs who are investing in and flipping houses.


It also sounds like one of the bigger obstacles they have to deal with may be attitude -- as in their own attitudes.


Good luck.

agreed VR.