Advice from fish and aquarium people

[chemgirl]

My oscar Zissou died yesterday. Now I'm not sure what to do with the tank. I have a 60 gallon bowfront tank with lots of equipment. I don't want to put it in storage and I'm not sure what I should do with it.

I know I don't want another oscar. As much as I enjoyed keeping her, she was a handful and I wouldn't want to deal with that again. Oscars are super messy fish and good luck ever trying to move one. Zissou was 10 inches long and super strong. Our last move was a nightmare with her freaking out in the car. We tried to move her in a rubermade container with holes in the top and an oxygen stone...water everywhere. She was so strong I couldn't hold the lid on by myself.

We were looking at getting her a larger tank so I'm glad we didn't make that purchase.

I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. I have loads of cichlid care stuff so maybe I should look in to other types of cichlids? Does anyone keep a cichlid tank? I'm reading about them online, but there is too much to get through. Some advice from somebody with real experience would be great.

So far I'm thinking 1 or 2 parrot cichlids and some sort of schooling fish.

Any suggestions?

 

[kenny]

Perhaps store the tank in the garage and take a break for a year.
That's what I've done over my long long life.

Also the oscar may have died from a disease which is still in the tank.
If you get new fish I'd disinfect everything and start over.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Sorry about your Oscar!

I'm not familiar with cichlid fish to provide a solution but have kept fish for a few years now. Have you asked on any fish forums about which fish get along with cichlids? If you're planning schooling fish, I'd be sure that cichlids aren't easily stressed by the movements of the schooling fish and I'd stay away from species like neons especially if your tank isn't ideally cycled for an increase in bio-load. Neons are very susceptible to neon-tetra disease.

First off, have you kept the original filter and media so your tank is (still?) cycled? Take a cup of tank water in and have it tested for ammonia/nitrate/nitrite levels and then put a few cyclids in your tank (2+) and see how they do. Be sure not to wait too long b/c the beneficial bacteria may start dying off.

Also, be sure the pet store has a good return policy in case the fish bicker and you have to return any of them.

Good luck!

 

[IdLikeToBuyAVal]

We have five tanks right now and keep a little bit of everything. Have you ever thought of a planted tank?? They are higher maintenance but the results can be beautiful! A good resource is plantedtank.net.

For a low maintenance option, you could also do a community tank with dwarf cichlids. Depending on your water conditions you could check into the pelvicachromis genus (kribensis are usually the easiest to keep and prefer medium to hard water). They will generally hang out in the lower regions of the tank and will need some rocks, driftwood, or flower pots to hide in. I always recommend harlequin rasboras if you can find them as they are SO colorful and easy to care for. We have had as many as 10 in a school and they are truly stunning! They will stay in the mid to upper range of the tank. Laetacara curviceps is another great dwarf-ish cichlid (they usually get 3-4") but are very peaceful and colorful but have a very tame cichlid attitude. The Apistogramma genus is great but they like super soft water and will often need live foods.

We always love to keep "common" fish that are brightly colored. We love platies and mollies and guppies for pretty fail-proof fish. Some gouramis are quite hardy and angelfish are hardier than most people think. We've also found the common rainbows (they're called australian rainbows at Petsmart) are gorgeous larger fish that are quite hardy. They look pale and bland at Petsmart but once you get them home and feed them well they color up in a couple of weeks like you wouldn't believe! They are really gorgeous fish but you would need at least a small school so they feel comfortable.

If you have some other fish in mind I'd be happy to help. I've kept a little bit of everything over the years, from oscars and big cichlids to African shell dwelling cichlids and fancy plecos

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Perhaps store the tank in the garage and take a break for a year.
That's what I've done over my long long life.

Also the oscar may have died from a disease which is still in the tank.
If you get new fish I'd disinfect everything and start over.

Yes, and also do NOT use soap to clean anything!

 

[chemgirl]

Thanks for the info!

I did post on an oscar forum but didn't get any helpful responses. Most were pretty accusatory about why my fish died (um I don't know...she was fine and then she wasn't).

Kenny: I am in a condo so no garage. The only storage place is the coat closet so I'm a bit worried about breaking it if its in there for any length of time. I could bring it to my parents and store it though so that might work. I am really worried about disease in the tank so I'm hesitant about starting over.

MC: I do my own chemical testing weekly and nothing abnormal has come up. I tested the nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, and pH this morning and nothing was out of acceptable limits. I use cycle before I add water to the tank so I don't think its an issue with my tap water. My main concern is disease and I'm not sure how to clean it without totally killing the beneficial bacteria. I use a bio filter so I can keep that running and try to introduce more fish, but won't it be full of disease? I had Zissou for over 5 years now and she was my first fish so this is all new to me.

IdLikeToBuyAVal: Wow! so many fish! I've never tried a planted tank because the oscar would have just destroyed it. She had a vendetta against plants. I was thinking 2 blood parrot cichlids and maybe a small school of larger tetras because I was reading that parrot cichlids like to be around schooling fish. I'm really not sure about it. I'm also not sure what I should introduce first, the cichlids or the schooling fish. I think I would like something with personality. I don't think I can go for just schooling fish after the oscar. ETA: I have a marineland filter with biowheel so I think that's too much current for angelfish, am I correct?

 

[IdLikeToBuyAVal]

Parrot cichlids are a hybrid created by aquarists and have been known to have health issues because they are a cross between two species. I don't support that so I wouldn't keep them personally but that is JMHO. That said, they are still cichlids and as you've kept an Oscar, you already know that any other fish that will fit in their mouth will probably end up in their mouth and be lunch. Skip the smaller schooling fish if you're going the larger cichlid route. You could probably get away with larger schooling fish (maybe rainbows) but you'd have to make sure you weren't overstocking.

As far as the filter producing too much current, look up your filter's gallon per hour output rate. Ideally you want around 1.5-2x your aquarium's volume filtered per hour (i.e. our 55 gallon has a 110 gal/hour filter which produces a fairly strong current but it has a high bioload).

 

[chemgirl]

Parrot cichlids are a hybrid created by aquarists and have been known to have health issues because they are a cross between two species. I don't support that so I wouldn't keep them personally but that is JMHO. That said, they are still cichlids and as you've kept an Oscar, you already know that any other fish that will fit in their mouth will probably end up in their mouth and be lunch. Skip the smaller schooling fish if you're going the larger cichlid route. You could probably get away with larger schooling fish (maybe rainbows) but you'd have to make sure you weren't overstocking.

As far as the filter producing too much current, look up your filter's gallon per hour output rate. Ideally you want around 1.5-2x your aquarium's volume filtered per hour (i.e. our 55 gallon has a 110 gal/hour filter which produces a fairly strong current but it has a high bioload).

To be honest the idea bothers me too. It really upsets me how some pet stores dye them different colors. That said, they supposedly have the cichlid personality with a smaller (relative) size and mouth, so that's what I was drawn to. I agree that if I were to do schooling fish with a parrot, they would have to be on the larger side.

Do you have any experience with a type of cichlid that doesn't get massive and is relatively friendly with fish of a similar size? I realize that 60 gallons isn't all that big when it comes to cichlids so I want to be careful. German rams are supposed to be on the smaller side, but I can't find any info on their compatibility. I might just stop by my local Big Al's and ask them what they've got that fits my needs.

ETA: I realize you answered my questions in your earlier post. To Google to figure out more about those fish!

 

[Demon]

If you want really peaceful cichlids, Bolivian Rams are great. They are so mild that even my little regular rams (about a third or fourth of the Bolivian's size) would chase them until I put them in different tanks. Not really colorful, but wonderful fish.

 

[Dancing Fire]

i used to keep a lot of Discus ..

 

[MichelleCarmen]

MC: I do my own chemical testing weekly and nothing abnormal has come up. I tested the nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, and pH this morning and nothing was out of acceptable limits. I use cycle before I add water to the tank so I don't think its an issue with my tap water. My main concern is disease and I'm not sure how to clean it without totally killing the beneficial bacteria. I use a bio filter so I can keep that running and try to introduce more fish, but won't it be full of disease? I had Zissou for over 5 years now and she was my first fish so this is all new to me.
?

hahaha - Yeah, some of the fish people are a bit nutso. If you had your Oscar for over 5 years, chances are she died of old age. Fish die. It's sad especially when they become our buddies, but really, it's just the way it is! Was there any obvious signs of disease (did she act different or have any physical markings - or ich or fungus?) If not, and I know this probably isn't the best advice, but I'd just do a partical water change and put the new fish in and see what happens. Just two fish and try it out! lol Or you could first try a bit of Melafix which may kill both good and bad bacteria but you won't have ALL the good dying and won't have to take apart the tank. Then suck that out with a carbon filter.

FWIW, we had a fish die last week and he was the only one in his tank and I just took it apart and washed everything down with hot water (no soap or any product), put in new filter media (just foam - no carbon), tap water conditioner and then put three african dwarf frogs in (completely underwater frogs - basically fish that are shaped like frogs). The next day two of the frogs died and I called the pet store. Turned out they got a contaminated batch, so I took the one living one back and the guy gave me three new frogs and ALL I did after was wash the filter media under hot water and refill the tank w/fresh conditioned water and the new frogs are fine! (I did toss the gravel from the fish who died and haven't put more in.... It's bare bottom right now...)

 

[Dancing Fire]

Perhaps store the tank in the garage and take a break for a year.
That's what I've done over my long long life.

Also the oscar may have died from a disease which is still in the tank.
If you get new fish I'd disinfect everything and start over.

Yes, and also do NOT use soap to clean anything!

use rock salt to disinfect your tank.

 

[Dancing Fire]

MC: I do my own chemical testing weekly and nothing abnormal has come up. I tested the nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, and pH this morning and nothing was out of acceptable limits. I use cycle before I add water to the tank so I don't think its an issue with my tap water. My main concern is disease and I'm not sure how to clean it without totally killing the beneficial bacteria. I use a bio filter so I can keep that running and try to introduce more fish, but won't it be full of disease? I had Zissou for over 5 years now and she was my first fish so this is all new to me.

haven't tested my pond water in 6 months...

 

[chemgirl]

MC: I do my own chemical testing weekly and nothing abnormal has come up. I tested the nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, and pH this morning and nothing was out of acceptable limits. I use cycle before I add water to the tank so I don't think its an issue with my tap water. My main concern is disease and I'm not sure how to clean it without totally killing the beneficial bacteria. I use a bio filter so I can keep that running and try to introduce more fish, but won't it be full of disease? I had Zissou for over 5 years now and she was my first fish so this is all new to me.

haven't tested my pond water in 6 months...

Yeah...I'm a chemical engineer so I check it fairly often.

I have a spreadsheet

And graphs

I'm a nerd.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

MC: I do my own chemical testing weekly and nothing abnormal has come up. I tested the nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, and pH this morning and nothing was out of acceptable limits. I use cycle before I add water to the tank so I don't think its an issue with my tap water. My main concern is disease and I'm not sure how to clean it without totally killing the beneficial bacteria. I use a bio filter so I can keep that running and try to introduce more fish, but won't it be full of disease? I had Zissou for over 5 years now and she was my first fish so this is all new to me.

haven't tested my pond water in 6 months...

Yeah...I'm a chemical engineer so I check it fairly often.

I have a spreadsheet

And graphs

I'm a nerd.

hahaha - I did chart for a while and then realized my aquariums had their own minds and would do as they pleased, so I gave up. Some fish forum members gave great advice...others went nuts over my "fish-in cycling." But, one tank I had was 10-gallons with a single female betta. It never cycled and I was pure evil and all that according to a few betta fans even though she was a 1" long betta in a rather comfy tank for a betta (considering most people put bettas in small 1-gallon bowls).

ETA - I do think that since you're lucky enough to have a nicely cycled tank, just rinsing the filter media out in the water you've removed from the tank, you'll probably be okay putting new ones in as long as your nitrates stay at a good level.

 

[dragonfly411]

I personally find chichlids to be too high maintenance for my tastes. That being said, would you consider a community tank? Perhaps with some hardy fish that all get along? I also agree with trying to plant the tank, it can be really gorgeous.

All the fish talk lately really makes me want fish again.

 

[chemgirl]

I did a half water change, cleaned the gravel (replaced half of it) and replaced the carbon in my filter. I didn't do anything to the biowheel. I tested my water last night and today at lunch and everything is looking good. The pH was a bit high last night, but I used to purposely raise it using aeration when I had the oscar. I took out the air bar and the pH is closer to where it should be.

I hope I did enough!

MC: The oscar people have long memories and Zissou had hole in the head last year. I changed the filter type, used Melafix and changed to a recommended food. The disease cleared up, but assumption is that hole in the head is caused by negligence so anything that happens to my fish is clearly my fault. Negligent monster that I am...end rant. RE your betta: a 10 gallon is fantastic compared to how most of them end up! Fish centerpieces next to candles drive me nuts. Now that is cruelty.

I located an aquarium supply store with albino kribensis and harlequin rosbaras in stock. I'm going to stop by on my way home and get 2 kribensis and a small school of rosbaras. I'm thinking 6 to start, or do I need to get the entire school at one time? I don't want to add too much until I'm sure that everythng's ok with the tank. Test results for this morning were pH 7.4 (a little high, but reading that it should be ok), ammonia 0 ppm, nitrite 0ppm and nitrate 10.0 ppm. So it should be fine I think...

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Six rasbaras sounds fine. I tried those out and liked them...but I put them in with that 10-gallon betta - hahaha Didn't last more than a few days - they stressed the betta out w/their quick movements. (now our current female betta is in a 5-gallon and I feel so guilty...she'll be upgraded after we move)

Do Kribensis breed pretty easily? I think my SIL had those but cannot be absolutely sure...there was fry in the tank all the time, but the parents ate the majority of the babies lol She had a 100-gallon.

 

[chemgirl]

Six rasbaras sounds fine. I tried those out and liked them...but I put them in with that 10-gallon betta - hahaha Didn't last more than a few days - they stressed the betta out w/their quick movements. (now our current female betta is in a 5-gallon and I feel so guilty...she'll be upgraded after we move)

Do Kribensis breed pretty easily? I think my SIL had those but cannot be absolutely sure...there was fry in the tank all the time, but the parents ate the majority of the babies lol She had a 100-gallon.

I think they do breed fairly often. As icky as it sounds, I'm ok with is at long as they eat them and I don't end up with 300 fry reaching maturity. I'm afraid of platies for this reason.

Maybe I am a negligent monster...

 

[IdLikeToBuyAVal]

Sorry I skipped out for so long.

I've keep kribensis a few separate occasions and they've always spawned. Overall I've had difficulty keeping the female of the pair alive for more than 2-3 years. The males seem to last forever though! I kept a pair in a 29 gallon aquarium (on the small side but they were in by themselves with some zebra danios, another great community fish). The pair in the 29 had fry and I didn't remove them. After the first batch were about 1 cm long they spawned again and the 15 or so medium sized fry stayed were left in the tank and hid in the rocks and never bothered the new fry. They did this off and on for about 2 years, the only pair that would spawn was the original pair and the others never bothered the new fry. They like to dig and will dig rather large pits in your gravel. I LOVE love love kribs.

I've kept bolivian rams and german rams. German rams are more peaceful IMO. My bolivian pair attacked my 8" pleco when they tried to spawn! Rather bold little fishes but VERY pretty. They can be a little picky about having softer water too. FYI you might see "balloon" rams in the petstores. I don't support them either, they are bred to have shortened spines which can have some really heartbreakingly sad deformities I understand selective breeding for size, color, etc. in the hobby but these unnecessary hybridizations, and deformities that some hobbyists/commercial facilities are breeding for just seem cruel to me.

 

[Demon]

Hmm. I wonder if we're talking about different rams here.....I'll have to look them up tonight..... My Bolivians weren't very colorful, and as meek as could be! They never spawned for me, but my regular rams did, and they were very feisty - even attacking my hand when I was cleaning the tank.

 

[chemgirl]

I introduced 6 harlequin rosbaras and 2 kribensis to the tank last night and so far so good! The fish store guy talked me out of the albino ones (they were on sale and slightly larger than the wild type ones so that's why I was considering them). I bought a mating pair of regular kribensis and they seem to be getting along well. IMHO the striped ones are prettier so I'm happy that he showed them to me.

I'm really impressed with Big Al's. The employees whom I spoke with all had aquariums and seemed to know what they were talking about. I had to tell them the size of my tank and how long it had been set up. They also had me list what I wanted and they seemed pretty good about telling people when they were going for something that wouldn't work. Beats Petsmart!