1 in 4 South African men admit to rape

[trillionaire]

This is heartwrenching and devestating!!!

Excerpts:

Nearly 28 percent of men interviewed said they had forced a woman or girl to have sexual intercourse against her will, according to the survey. It said that 14 percent said they had raped a former or current girlfriend; 12 percent said they had raped someone who was not their partner; and 10 percent said they had raped both a stranger and a partner.

The research council survey said that nearly 20 percent of those who admitted sexual abuse had the AIDS virus — only slightly higher than the 18 percent infection rate among men not involved in rape.

Violence
It said that 17 percent of the men surveyed admitted to attempted rape, and 9 percent said they had taken part in gang rapes. In all, 42 percent of men surveyed said they had been physically violent to an intimate partner (current or ex-girlfriend or wife), including 14 percent in the past year.

"Our study suggests that the pathway which leads to these ideas and the practices of rape and other forms of violence toward women starts in childhood," said Jewkes, head of the research council''s gender and health unit. She said the results backed up findings of earlier research among younger men.

She said that "rape is far too common, and its origins too deeply embedded in ideas about South African manhood," for it to be regarded merely as a criminal problem which could be solved by prosecuting the rapists.

"You can''t change behavior practiced by one quarter of the population if the main strategy is through the use of police and courts," Jewkes told The Associated Press. "The police and courts are important but they are only part of the solution."

Many victim support groups complain that rape cases are repeatedly postponed and little is done to protect the woman from the trauma of facing her tormentor. Most cases don''t even reach court.

"Rape is one of the most brutal human rights violations in the world," said Maria Jose Alcala, who heads the U.N. development fund''s effort to curtail violence against women. "It is a stark manifestation of just how little value our societies place on the lives and dignity of women and girls."

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Thanks for posting this.
I''m an administrator of a rape support group, and we were informed that the statistics were even higher (one in three men).
It''s a huge problem here, and there have been many theories as to why this is so common. At the end of the day rape is not a display of sexual desire, but rather a desire to dominate another person. Therefore there is definitely an underlying problem within the communities when it comes to the general attitude towards women.

 

[chrono]

This is incredibly sad - they just do not have respect for the female sex.

 

[aprilcait]

My heart goes out to the women and girls living in such an environment.

 

[mysterylover]

One of the many reasons why we cannot seem to get a handle on the AIDS crisis in Africa. Rape is a huge problem, as well as plain old infidelity. Cultural norms are usually the downfall of a society. Just ask Rome.

 

[UCLABelle]

Man, this is just too sad to think about right now

 

[D&T]

this is terrible, its very sad to hear and read about these things that go on

 

[Steel]

I saw a programme on t.v. recently about the long reaching influence of the **** industry.

One segment followed some **** dvd's to Africa where they interviewed children who had often watched **** as entertainment. They interviewed a few of the men in the village who said after they watched **** they would rape to act on the feelings. There were two men interviewed who contracted HIV because they did not use condoms when they had sex. They felt they did not need to use condoms because in the **** they saw, the 'actors' did not use contraceptive. One of these men later infected his wife but their child was born virus-free. Both husband and wife blamed **** for not encouraging the use of contraceptive and encouraging the men to rape.


I switched the channel once I saw that. I did not understand how the wife could blame **** and not her cheating husband. How the village could legitimately claim **** was the problem and not the men committing rape.

I felt that the programme was heavily weighted against the **** industry but even with that tint, the attitude of (best case, a minority) of people in that village was terrible.

 

[Patchee]

It is Africa and AIDS has always been prevailant there.... It stinks all together but Africa is known for sickness and abuse.

 

[princesss]

Date: 9/22/2009 12:30:30 PM
Author: Patchee
It is Africa and AIDS has always been prevailant there.... It stinks all together but Africa is known for sickness and abuse.

I am absolutely dumbfounded by this response. No compassion, no hope for change, not even outrage - you''ve just dismissed an entire continent as doomed to suffer because they''re "known for" it.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Date: 9/23/2009 11:11:52 AM
Author: princesss

Date: 9/22/2009 12:30:30 PM
Author: Patchee
It is Africa and AIDS has always been prevailant there.... It stinks all together but Africa is known for sickness and abuse.

I am absolutely dumbfounded by this response. No compassion, no hope for change, not even outrage - you''ve just dismissed an entire continent as doomed to suffer because they''re ''known for'' it.

As an African, I am always amused and shocked at the ignorance of other nations when it comes to Africa.

 

[perry]

Date: 9/24/2009 5:10:44 AM
Author: kribbie

As an African, I am always amused and shocked at the ignorance of other nations when it comes to Africa.

For the most part I agree: and I''m an American. I disagree with the "amused" part of your statement.

When I first read this thread yesturday I wanted to respond and have been trying to think of an appropriate response.

The issue of rape is far more complicated than presented above. Even the deffiinition of rape has changed a lot - at least within the US in recent decades (many things not previously considered rape in the US are now considered rape).

In some cases it is sexual - in other cases it is because of a truely emotionally sick person. I do admit that within situations that it is often more about domination & terriorization than sex (which is perhaps the most common reason within parts of North America).

In the case of South Aftica - the information above is not really new. There is a cultural history there some form of rape as a routine practice - and while I do not like how it sounds - and agree that rape is not a good thing; I am also aware that I do not understand the cultural issues involved - and I have also learned that western media often put their own spin on things (like leaving out key elements of the story). That makes me leary of saying much more than I would like to have a lot more information - and learn about the history and the culture. Rape is not a good thing; but, I do not know enough to say what would be better (i.e. what the fix is - and just saying "don''t rape" is not a fix).

As far as how this affects Africa in general. Very little. Africa is a continent with a number of countries - and you have very different cultures and practices across and arround the continent. There are also varying degrees of weath as well. Are many of them financially poorer than the "modern western world". Yes. Are they really worse off - are the people disadvantaged and lack a future. No. Material goods do not create a worthy life or limit the future. Do some of them need help. Yes. Do some people in the US and Europe need help. Yes. Do I believe that the cultural norms of America should apply arround the world. No. Do I think other cultural norms should be applied within the US. No. But I do think we all have something to learn from each other - and I think America would be a better place if we would adopt some of the ideas from other cultures; and that some other cultures would be a better place if they adopted some of the ideas in America.

Perry

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Perry. Your post was very disjointed without a central argument but I will touch on a few aspects.

The definition of rape has not changed much, as it is still the act of sexual penetration without consent, and although the definition has expanded to include for example intra-marital and anal rape, the basic definition remains the same.
As a rape counsellor I can tell you that 99% of the cases I have dealt with here have absolutely nothing to do with sex. Websites like www.livestrong.com can give you more info about the fact that rape is not about sex, but dominance.

I am appalled at your description of rape as a routine cultural practice. As someone who has lived and travelled extensively through the African continent, I can assure you that this is definitely not the case. Rape is NOT a cultural issue. Not here, not anywhere. It is a problem that is present worldwide, and simply stating dismissively that you do not know the culture and can therefore not judge disgusts me.

As for my comment that ignorance amuses me, it does.
Not when it comes to serious issues, but for example, this is an extract from a South African tourism website. The website owner eventually started answering the questions posed to him in a rather sarcastic, but highly amusing way.

Q: Does it ever get windy in South Africa ? I have never seen it rain on TV, so
how do the plants grow? ( UK )
A: We import all plants fully grown and then just sit around watching them die.
Q: Will I be able to see elephants in the street? ( USA )
A: Depends how much you''ve been drinking.
Q: I want to walk from Durban to Cape Town - can I follow the railroad tracks? ( Sweden )
A: Sure, it''s only two thousand kilometres; take lots of water...
Q: Is it safe to run around in the bushes in South Africa ? ( Sweden )
A: So it''s true what they say about the Swedes.
Q: Are there any ATMs (cash machines) in South Africa ? Can you send me a list
of them in JHB, Cape Town , Knysna and Jeffrey''s Bay? ( UK )
A: What did your last slave die of?
Q: Can you give me some information about Koala Bear racing in South Africa ? ( USA )
A: Aus-tra-lia is that big island in the middle of the pacific. A-fri-ca is the
big triangle-shaped continent south of Europe which does not.... oh forget it.
Sure, the Koala Bear racing is every Tuesday night in Hillbrow. Come naked.
Q: Which direction is north in South Africa ? ( USA )
A: Face south and then turn 90 degrees. Contact us when you get here and we''ll
send the rest of the directions.
Q: Can I bring cutlery into South Africa ? ( UK )
A: Why? Just use your fingers like we do.
Q: Do you have perfume in South Africa ? ( France )
A: No, WE don''t stink.
Q: Can you tell me the regions in South Africa where the female population is
smaller than the male population? ( Italy )
A: Yes, gay nightclubs.
Q: Do you celebrate Christmas in South Africa ? ( France )
A: Only at Christmas.
Q: Are there killer bees in South Africa ? ( Germany )
A: Not yet; but for you, we''ll import them.
Q: Are there supermarkets in Cape Town and is milk available all year round? ( Germany )
A: No, we are a peaceful civilisation of vegetarian hunter-gatherers. Milk is
illegal.
Q: Please send a list of all doctors in South Africa who can dispense
rattlesnake serum. ( USA )
A: Rattlesnakes live in A-meri-ca, which is where YOU come from. All South
African snakes are perfectly harmless, can be safely handled and make good
pets.
Q: I was in South Africa in 1969, and I want to contact the girl I dated while
I was staying in Hillbrow. Can you help? ( USA )
A: Yes, and you will still have to pay her by the hour.

 

[perry]

kribbie:

I am afraid that we will have to agree to disagree on some things. However, one of the very reasons that I stopped supporting an organization related to rape was because they also went off to the extreem and would not face up to facts.

99% of rape cases are not tied to domination. I agree that domination occurs in many cases - In some cases its the only reason - in others is one of several factors.

The biggest set of facts that shows that to be wrong are the studies done - and the successful treatment resulting from those studies - on why people who are charged with rape or other sexual crimes. A combination of two items top the list as the core reasons people commit sexual assaults: Improper sexual fantasies/standards and uncontroloable sexual urges tops the list. This is why castration (physical or chemical) works so well (not saying it is perfect). Some people can be helped with their sexual fantasies and standards through counseling and training (like learning to focus on "proper" sexual fantasies and letting the bad ones die out).

Many states within the US and many nations in the world are adopting chemical castration for rapist (and for other sexual crimes) - or at least for a certain class of offenders. Common statistics show reduction in repeat offences on the order of 75%. Physical castration - if I remember correctly - is often considered 90% effective at preventing repeat offenses (and physical castration is thousands of years old). But even physical castration will not stop someone who is hell bent on dominating another person - and using sex as a tool to do so.

So if the way to prevent the vast majority of repeat offenses is castration - to substantially reduce the sexual urges - or eliminate them..... what does that say about the "domination" theory of sexual assaults....

Sorry - the facts don''t even come close to your 99% number.

I am well aware that a number of "rape" websites often cite the 99% number.... But I am also aware that the NRA and Brady present similar totally oposite numbers on gun control. I don''t inherently trust any of them.... It is unfortunate - but very true - that the way you get funding is to be an "extreemist" on a point of view - and to only cite the portions of the facts that back up your side. It is also true that people who believe in one side or the other side deeply always see every problem as an example of what they believe. If my stomach hurts I do not first go to a surgeon - as they are likely to recommend surgury (its how they make a living).

As far as the cultural practice: I think that actually explains most rape - and many other crimes - far better than "domanance."

There was nothing new to me about the story listed above about 1/4 - 1/3 of south african men admitting rape. Want to know something else - most of them do not believe they did anything wrong - and in fact teach their children that it is acceptable. Now that''s a cultural item.

Individual families have cultures - ethnic/religous groups have cultures - areas or cities have cultures - and nations have cultures. How a person is raised - what is their "cultural" norm defines a lot about what they consider right and wrong.

I personally believe that no person should be forced into any sexual act - that it is wrong. I was taught that sex was like many things. Yes, you want it at times (and sometimes need it). Yet like many other things you want - some things are off limits - other things have terms and conditions to getting what you want. In many consumer cases - the common terms and conditions are to have enough $$$ to buy something and the place to put it. In the case of sex (outside of the restricted group) - the terms and conditions I was taught was to have the free consent of the other party - and that they had understand what they were doing.

But that is not what is always taught by individual families and various groups. Perhaps they are taught that it is OK to steel (at least from some); perhaps they are taught that if really feeling horney - that it is acceptable to rape someone if needed. Perhaps they are taught that their siblings are acceptable sexual partners. Perhaps they are taught - and hundreds of years (if not thousands) old legal and cultural standards of the area are - that it is OK to force sex on your wife (i.e. - legally you cannot rape your wife). Note that some of these countries allow a man to have multiple wives - and they can make a women their wife over her objection - all totally legal and culturally accepted in the area.

I have been reading about rape in south africa (and other places) for several decades (or more precisely - several decades ago I read a lot on the issues - and how to prevent/treat it; and have seen several articals periodically since then). Yes, I believe that the biggest problem in South Africa it is a cultural problem.

Finally, even though we disagre: I am glad that you are involed in the issue and working as a rape counselor. We need more people to do that. I do ask that you look at the facts on what have been identified as key issues - and what works for treatment of people who commit sexual assults and try to see those items in your evaluations. Of course, many people do not want to admit that their might be a medical or other issue behind the act. It is so easy to say that it was domination - and provides a false sense of reason for the victum. I do admit that domination does play a role in many rapes - if only as a contribitor.

Have a great day,

Perry

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Well...
I really am lost for words at this point. Clearly there''s no point in continuing this conversation. So all there is left to say is that I have never been more amused.
Over and out.

 

[perry]

kribbie:

Here is another thing for you to consider:

The "Dominance" theory as first postulated in a major way in the mid 1970s - and while I will admit that it has become the mainstream theory, and many people try to fit as many cases they can into that theory - it has a another major problem. Like why are there not more sexual assults by females. Take women with the same reflective trates that are claimed as reasons for male rapist. There are certainly many "dominant" women who fit these clasifications - yet they almost never rape.

In the end - there are two major problems with the "Dominance" theory that I am aware of (and I have not recently researched this in any detail).

1) As stated above - studies of people who commit sexual assults - on what was the key driver in their individual case - and how to resolve that issue; don''t match up well.

2) Females with the same dominant charecteristics and opportunities generally do not rape.

I just did a quick internet search on the subject (why men rape) and found that there is currently a growing number of researchers who are challanging the dominance theory because of those key reasons. This does not mean that the dominance theory is totally incorrect - just that it does not explain all the reasons. I do believe that the dominance theory does in fact explain a good subset of rape cases.

Perry

 

[perry]

For clairification for those who wonder what the "Dominance" theory is in regards to why men rape:

The theory basically states that men are in control of their society - and intentionally keep the females subservant - if not outright consider them nothing more than a minor piece of property. Thus, It is OK for men to rape either as a means of contolling or becasue a female has no value (other than perhaps sexual, child bearing, and druge labor).

As part of the theory - men are taught that rape is OK because this fits into the overall concept of male dominance of the world.

It is also stated that rape (and similar) sexual assults have virtually nothing to do about sexual desire - but are all largely (if not entirely) due to the desire to dominate the other person - or at least the other sex.

So, people who believe this theory explains all will try to fit every rape into it. Since the theory is rather broad it does appear on the surface to account for the vast majority of rape - if you don't dig into the individual details of why a person commits sexual assult.

The people who are trying to minimize sexual assult have to take a different approach - they have to dig into why a person is motivated that way - on an individual basis; and how could we change things. While either direct dominance or a cultural pattern of female dominance does occur in many cases - there are a significant number of cases where it doesn't. Nor do I believe that all cases of what I call cultural teachings regarding the acceptance of sexual assult are do to a desire for dominance in accordance with the dominance theory.

Finally, there is the issue of sexual desire as part of rape. Why is it that when you diminsh or eliminate the sexual desire that rapes, and other sexual assults, drop dramatically - which is a direct contradiction of a key tennant of the dominance theory.

Anyway, if someone told me that within North America - that about 15% of rapes were directly due to dominance - 60% had dominance as a contributing factor (and could have been prevented if the other factors had been handled) - and 25% were for other reasons.... (or some range from these numbers) - I'd likely consider the results to be credible (and would certainly do a lot of digging on how the results were compiled).

My biggest frustration on the issue years ago; was it seemed that so many people wanted to just fit all cases into one catagory (the dominance theory). It did not help that the concept of a guy supporting a rape crises center and working to minimize sexual assults was not exactly welcome. I also got tired of being looked at as an automatic rapist because I was male.

So I took my charity efforts and $$$ elsewhere.

Perry

 

[softly softly]

Date: 9/26/2009 7:45:11 AM
Author: kribbie
Perry. Your post was very disjointed without a central argument but I will touch on a few aspects.


The definition of rape has not changed much, as it is still the act of sexual penetration without consent, and although the definition has expanded to include for example intra-marital and anal rape, the basic definition remains the same.

As a rape counsellor I can tell you that 99% of the cases I have dealt with here have absolutely nothing to do with sex. Websites like www.livestrong.com can give you more info about the fact that rape is not about sex, but dominance.


I am appalled at your description of rape as a routine cultural practice. As someone who has lived and travelled extensively through the African continent, I can assure you that this is definitely not the case. Rape is NOT a cultural issue. Not here, not anywhere. It is a problem that is present worldwide, and simply stating dismissively that you do not know the culture and can therefore not judge disgusts me.


As for my comment that ignorance amuses me, it does.

Not when it comes to serious issues, but for example, this is an extract from a South African tourism website. The website owner eventually started answering the questions posed to him in a rather sarcastic, but highly amusing way.


Q: Does it ever get windy in South Africa ? I have never seen it rain on TV, so

how do the plants grow? ( UK )

A: We import all plants fully grown and then just sit around watching them die.

Q: Will I be able to see elephants in the street? ( USA )

A: Depends how much you''ve been drinking.

Q: I want to walk from Durban to Cape Town - can I follow the railroad tracks? ( Sweden )

A: Sure, it''s only two thousand kilometres; take lots of water...

Q: Is it safe to run around in the bushes in South Africa ? ( Sweden )

A: So it''s true what they say about the Swedes.

Q: Are there any ATMs (cash machines) in South Africa ? Can you send me a list

of them in JHB, Cape Town , Knysna and Jeffrey''s Bay? ( UK )

A: What did your last slave die of?

Q: Can you give me some information about Koala Bear racing in South Africa ? ( USA )

A: Aus-tra-lia is that big island in the middle of the pacific. A-fri-ca is the

big triangle-shaped continent south of Europe which does not.... oh forget it.

Sure, the Koala Bear racing is every Tuesday night in Hillbrow. Come naked.

Q: Which direction is north in South Africa ? ( USA )

A: Face south and then turn 90 degrees. Contact us when you get here and we''ll

send the rest of the directions.

Q: Can I bring cutlery into South Africa ? ( UK )

A: Why? Just use your fingers like we do.

Q: Do you have perfume in South Africa ? ( France )

A: No, WE don''t stink.

Q: Can you tell me the regions in South Africa where the female population is

smaller than the male population? ( Italy )

A: Yes, gay nightclubs.

Q: Do you celebrate Christmas in South Africa ? ( France )

A: Only at Christmas.

Q: Are there killer bees in South Africa ? ( Germany )

A: Not yet; but for you, we''ll import them.

Q: Are there supermarkets in Cape Town and is milk available all year round? ( Germany )

A: No, we are a peaceful civilisation of vegetarian hunter-gatherers. Milk is

illegal.

Q: Please send a list of all doctors in South Africa who can dispense

rattlesnake serum. ( USA )

A: Rattlesnakes live in A-meri-ca, which is where YOU come from. All South

African snakes are perfectly harmless, can be safely handled and make good

pets.

Q: I was in South Africa in 1969, and I want to contact the girl I dated while

I was staying in Hillbrow. Can you help? ( USA )

A: Yes, and you will still have to pay her by the hour.

Kribbie while I don''t disagree that there are many misconceptions about Africa, or that it is grossly unfair to assume that rape is a cultural norm in African society, I''d take the above with a grain of salt as I saw the exact same list being circulated a few years ago with Australia substituted for South Africa.