Talk to me about depression, anxiety and bi-polar disorder

[Phoenix]

So, the friend I posted about previously who has suicidal thoughts and gambling & money problems just posted on FB about depression and anxiety (shared some articles, did not post about himself specifically).

I am at a loss about what to do to help him. I just texted him saying I am here if he wants to talk. But he denies having a problem, and this coming from someone who actually tried to commit suicide once (took some anti-depression pills and then threw them up) and had suicidal thoughts more than once. I am not sure if he's suffering from depression/anxiety or he may be bi-polar. He exhibits some symptoms, such as problems sleeping when he has no physiological cause for insomnia. He can be super happy and yet at other times seemingly trivial things can make him unhappy & depressed. He's also had substance abuse issues in the past, most notably an overdose and was admitted to the hospital in time; but as far as I know none at present time.

I've suggested that he goes see Gamblers Anonymous and see a GP for a referral to a psychiatrist, to try tackle the root cause, ie. his depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts. To date, he hasn't seen either.

 

[PintoBean]

You can't help someone that isn't ready to help himself. All you can do is check in periodically like a friend would, and say, please don't hesitate to ask if you need any help, and I'll try my best. That's all. Unfortunately, you can only do so much for adults.

 

[Alexiszoe]

If he's going through depression, chances are he's finding it very hard to do anything at all. It absolutely robs you of any motivation and will - even getting dressed or taking a shower for some can be a challenge. A dear friend of mine can be holed up in his apartment not eating or showering for days. It can feel incredibly alone and the mind is so distorted and can be overwhelming. They would have to reach the point themselves where they are willing and ready to seek help.

As @PintoBean mentioned, checking in periodically helps. Be proactive and text him every week or two. It shows that you care, that you do think of him and you are there for him whenever he is ready. No pressure, no judgment.

He is lucky he has a good friend in you @Phoenix. I hope he takes a turn for the better eventually.

 

[Phoenix]

If he's going through depression, chances are he's finding it very hard to do anything at all. It absolutely robs you of any motivation and will - even getting dressed or taking a shower for some can be a challenge. A dear friend of mine can be holed up in his apartment not eating or showering for days. It can feel incredibly alone and the mind is so distorted and can be overwhelming. They would have to reach the point themselves where they are willing and ready to seek help.

As @PintoBean mentioned, checking in periodically helps. Be proactive and text him every week or two. It shows that you care, that you do think of him and you are there for him whenever he is ready. No pressure, no judgment.

He is lucky he has a good friend in you @Phoenix. I hope he takes a turn for the better eventually.

Thank you, Alexis.

I think he hasn't reached that point yet. He's still turning up for work daily and seems to be functioning normally, except I know he isn't. The postings on FB must be a cry for help.

On an another note entirely, I've been meaning to ask you: what is that amazing beauty adorning your finger in your avatar?

 

[House Cat]

There are so many variables to this story and too many mental disorders/diseases this could or could not be. There are personality disorders, organic brain disorders, mood disorders, addiction, on and on.

(After looking for physical disease). Any doctor worth his salt will treat the addiction first because the symptoms of addiction look just like many mood and personality disorders. After the addiction is well controlled, other possibilities can be explored.

Your friend needs professional help.

 

[Phoenix]

There are so many variables to this story and too many mental disorders/diseases this could or could not be. There are personality disorders, organic brain disorders, mood disorders, addiction, on and on.

(After looking for physical disease). Any doctor worth his salt will treat the addiction first because the symptoms of addiction look just like many mood and personality disorders. After the addiction is well controlled, other possibilities can be explored.

Your friend needs professional help.

Thank you, @House Cat.

Which physical disease might he have? And he won't even admit to having a problem (other than the gambling and money problems, and he swears he no longer touches any drugs), how does he then even get professional help? And what kind of professional help would he need? Assuming he's willing, how does he even start? I am assuming a GP would be the first step, but how would he even begin telling the GP what his problems are.

I am trying to talk to him to see if he'd open up. I realise that unless he wants to proactively seek help, I nor anyone else can help him. But I feel that he needs some guidance. That he's told me these problems he's had + his posts on FB means, to me, he's trying to reach out.

 

[whitewave]

Thank you, @House Cat.

Which physical disease might he have? And he won't even admit to having a problem (other than the gambling and money problems, and he swears he no longer touches any drugs), how does he then even get professional help? And what kind of professional help would he need? Assuming he's willing, how does he even start? I am assuming a GP would be the first step, but how would he even begin telling the GP what his problems are.

I am trying to talk to him to see if he'd open up. I realise that unless he wants to get help, I nor anyone else can help him. But I feel that he needs some guidance. That he's told me these problems he's had + his posts on FB to me means he's trying to reach out.

Low thyroid, low testosterone, sleep apnea, etc

You can’t help him. He doesn’t want help right now.

 

[Phoenix]

Low thyroid, low testosterone, sleep apnea, etc

You can’t help him. He doesn’t want help right now.

Could you please elaborate? I know one of the symptoms of low thyroid is insomnia. I'd need to google the others. Could these account for his other problems?

I understand. I just feel I can't sit idly by while he may harm himself. I know I am not responsible for any of the choices he's made, may choose to make; but I am the only he's told about these problems (other than the non-specific FB postings).

 

[cmd2014]

Could you please elaborate? I know one of the symptoms of low thyroid is insomnia. I'd need to google the others. Could these account for his other problems?

I understand. I just feel I can't sit idly by while he may harm himself. I know I am not responsible for any of the choices he's made, may choose to make; but I am the only he's told about these problems (other than the non-specific FB postings).

Phoneix,

It's not your place (or any of ours) to diagnose him. He needs to seek that help out himself. The first step would be for him to see his GP. It would be their job to screen for any physical conditions that might cause his symptoms. Again, it's not helpful for you or any of us to speculate on what any of those might be, as you and we simply would not have enough information to be able to do that, nor would this be of any benefit to him. Then his GP can make a decision about the need for further referrals (i.e., to a psychiatrist for an assessment and medication review, to a psychologist for a psychodiagnostic assessment and possible counselling, or to an addictions program for an assessment and treatment regarding the gambling and any other addictions that your friend may have). And posting on Facebook may or may not be reaching out. I would not necessarily interpret it as that, as if it is, it would be a *very* passive approach to his taking care of his own health.

All you can do as his friend is to express concern and encourage him to go see his doctor. Just because he has disclosed to you does not make you responsible for addressing the things that he has disclosed. If he says he is going to kill himself, call him an ambulance or take him to the hospital. Beyond that, there is nothing else you can do beyond encouraging him to go see his doctor. You are not sitting idly by if you continue to encourage him to seek help. You are doing the most that a good friend can do.

 

[whitewave]

Yes, any time someone vocalizes a threat to kill him self, that is always cause to call for an ambulance.

Other than that, nothing you can do

 

[Ally T]

I echo @PintoBean You just need to be there, day or night, if he needs you. You might find yourself cursing under your breath at the bad timing that he sends a message, but he needs to know you're there & that you're listening. And that's all you can do x

 

[lyra]

Phoenix, you are a great friend. I think you need to accept that there's only so much you can do, and if he's unwilling to work hard and help himself, there's nothing more you can do. My sister has all sorts of mental illnesses and she is absolutely able to fool every psychiatrist she's been assigned. She's a major manipulator who can seem perfectly normal or completely insane. She's also a substance abuser. I don't think anyone can "help" her, however, she manages to make her way somehow. She refuses any kind of real treatment.

Your friend would need to have a lot of self-determination to better his life and change his destructive patterns. It doesn't really sound like he's there, and he may never be. At some point, you have to step away for your own well being. You can offer him up the resources available, and what you're willing to "do" to hlep, but you also need to establish boundaries. This is not your problem or your responsibility. If he chooses a drastic measure, that is his choice and does not reflect on you. Take care. This won't work if he's unwilling to work harder that he is so far. And you can't really convince him. It's up to him now.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoneix,

It's not your place (or any of ours) to diagnose him. He needs to seek that help out himself. The first step would be for him to see his GP. It would be their job to screen for any physical conditions that might cause his symptoms. Again, it's not helpful for you or any of us to speculate on what any of those might be, as you and we simply would not have enough information to be able to do that, nor would this be of any benefit to him. Then his GP can make a decision about the need for further referrals (i.e., to a psychiatrist for an assessment and medication review, to a psychologist for a psychodiagnostic assessment and possible counselling, or to an addictions program for an assessment and treatment regarding the gambling and any other addictions that your friend may have). And posting on Facebook may or may not be reaching out. I would not necessarily interpret it as that, as if it is, it would be a *very* passive approach to his taking care of his own health.

All you can do as his friend is to express concern and encourage him to go see his doctor. Just because he has disclosed to you does not make you responsible for addressing the things that he has disclosed. If he says he is going to kill himself, call him an ambulance or take him to the hospital. Beyond that, there is nothing else you can do beyond encouraging him to go see his doctor. You are not sitting idly by if you continue to encourage him to seek help. You are doing the most that a good friend can do.

Thank you so much, @cmd2014. This is all very helpful information.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, you are a great friend. I think you need to accept that there's only so much you can do, and if he's unwilling to work hard and help himself, there's nothing more you can do. My sister has all sorts of mental illnesses and she is absolutely able to fool every psychiatrist she's been assigned. She's a major manipulator who can seem perfectly normal or completely insane. She's also a substance abuser. I don't think anyone can "help" her, however, she manages to make her way somehow. She refuses any kind of real treatment.

Your friend would need to have a lot of self-determination to better his life and change his destructive patterns. It doesn't really sound like he's there, and he may never be. At some point, you have to step away for your own well being. You can offer him up the resources available, and what you're willing to "do" to hlep, but you also need to establish boundaries. This is not your problem or your responsibility. If he chooses a drastic measure, that is his choice and does not reflect on you. Take care. This won't work if he's unwilling to work harder that he is so far. And you can't really convince him. It's up to him now.

If I may ask, why does your sister see the psychiatrists if she manages to fool them? Has there been intervention by other people and she just goes along to appease them?

My friend won't even admit that he needs help, which is strange bc in the past he's alluded to being depressed and like I said, has told me that tried to commit suicide once and he's had suicidal thoughts at other times, most recently only about a month or so ago. Why tell me all this and now denies that he has any kind of problem? The substance abuse issue and the near-fatal OD, to me, seem also symptomatic of an underlying mental illness of some kind (I guess, I don't know for sure).

 

[Gussie]

The underlying mental illness may be addiction, plain and simple. Just because he is not currently using does not mean he is not an addict. Addiction is a very powerful disease. Many with it do not accept that they have it or that they need help for it. Seeking out a 12 step program would be very helpful but you can't make him. No one can. Please listen to others here. You can only be a friend and listen. Don't bail him out, don't take on his responsibilities. If he is an addict, he might have to fall far enough before he seeks help.

 

[Phoenix]

The underlying mental illness may be addiction, plain and simple. Just because he is not currently using does not mean he is not an addict. Addiction is a very powerful disease. Many with it do not accept that they have it or that they need help for it. Seeking out a 12 step program would be very helpful but you can't make him. No one can. Please listen to others here. You can only be a friend and listen. Don't bail him out, don't take on his responsibilities. If he is an addict, he might have to fall far enough before he seeks help.

Yes, I have long suspected that he has an addictive personality but wasn't aware of the extent of the problem, til now.

I hear you, and others, who have all kindly posted to help. I am offering a listening ear and support whenever he wants/ needs. I will not bail him out. Yes, that's what I am worried, he's "flirted" (if that's even the right word) with death at least twice already. Not sure how much farther he'd need to fall before - if ever - he seeks appropriate help. Like everyone here has said, no much more I can do; only he can admit he has problems and is willing to take steps to help himself.

 

[Arkteia]

I would second everyone that has posted in saying that he has a great friend in you, @Phoenix, and I hope he understands it.

It is my personal feeling that diagnosing him is futile - we all try to do it, but we do not know half of what is going in people’s lives. Professionals should do it. It is good that he opened up to you, but what he said could be the tip of the iceberg. Problem is, if one pushes too hard, he may clam up. People are afraid of giving up control over decisions re. treatment to anyone else. Even if they understand it is for their benefit.

Likewise, an article about depression or any other condition posted on FB may not be indicative of a crisis (I follow a Facebook “BP magazine for bipolar” for non-personal reasons, its bloggers write pretty well, but it can’t be pinned, so I periodically post it on my FB with the intention to read. It does not mean anything personal).

You have done what is necessary, indicated that the line of communication is open. The decision is up to him.

Maybe he is not ready to give up gambling and/or other behaviors. Addictions are secretive. But in conjunction with gambling, I wanted to ask you, is the practice of self-excluding from casinos available in your country? It exists in the US. It should be used in conjunction with other treatments, never alone, but it is a helpful option.

 

[MarionC]

And also, take care of yourself by being there when you are needed, and focusing on your own life when you are not with your friend. Having ill friends or family will wreck your life you are codependent.

 

[Phoenix]

I would second everyone that has posted in saying that he has a great friend in you, @Phoenix, and I hope he understands it.

It is my personal feeling that diagnosing him is futile - we all try to do it, but we do not know half of what is going in people’s lives. Professionals should do it. It is good that he opened up to you, but what he said could be the tip of the iceberg. Problem is, if one pushes too hard, he may clam up. People are afraid of giving up control over decisions re. treatment to anyone else. Even if they understand it is for their benefit.

Likewise, an article about depression or any other condition posted on FB may not be indicative of a crisis (I follow a Facebook “BP magazine for bipolar” for non-personal reasons, its bloggers write pretty well, but it can’t be pinned, so I periodically post it on my FB with the intention to read. It does not mean anything personal).

You have done what is necessary, indicated that the line of communication is open. The decision is up to him.

Maybe he is not ready to give up gambling and/or other behaviors. Addictions are secretive. But in conjunction with gambling, I wanted to ask you, is the practice of self-excluding from casinos available in your country? It exists in the US. It should be used in conjunction with other treatments, never alone, but it is a helpful option.

This is what I am afraid of. There could be larger and/ or additional issues, which he has yet to tell me/ which he may never tell me.

I was just wondering about his FB posts. This is not the first time he's posted about depression, anxiety and suicide etc...But it is entirely possible he was just sharing, like he said.

He gambles online on his hand-phone and doesn't go to the casinos. He says he's now downloaded anti-gambling softwares on his phone. But I remain concerned since he has not joined Gamblers Anonymous (saying he "doesn't feel the need to"), nor has he sought help from any other professionals.

 

[Phoenix]

And also, take care of yourself by being there when you are needed, and focusing on your own life when you are not with your friend. Having ill friends or family will wreck your life you are codependent.

I am trying my best to take care of my own health first.

That same term, "codependent", was used in my other thread concerning the same person. How do I protect myself to prevent myself from becoming a codependant? Or am I already one, by virtue of me being aware of his issues and somewhat being involved?

I try to distance myself from his issues, but that he's so severely affected has me concerned. I guess it's bc I've never known anyone before that suffers from a whole host of problems that he does, ie. depression, anxiety, suicide, gambling, debts, substance abuse etc...that I feel overwhelmed and inadequate, not knowing how best to deal with these issues, for both his benefit as well as mine.

 

[MarionC]

To me, codependent means you are intertwined with someone else’s problems and it is affecting you in a negative way. You feel responsible for their well being and you want to fix things.
If he were getting help, it would be one thing, but he sounds as though he would rather fall apart. Either he will rally to help himself, or he will fail. You can’t change that. He needs professional help. Period. You are not a trained professional, so please don’t fault yourself in any way.
Honestly, tough love might be the only help you can give. Tell him he needs professional help or a 12 step program. Offer to go to one meeting with him and if he says no, tell him you must distance yourself. Walking away may not change anything, but it might. You must realize that what is happening to him is his business, You need to get on with your life. Even if this were your adult child, I would be telling you the same thing.

 

[House Cat]

There are online quizzes to see if you are codependent.

Learning about this condition and recovering from it is a worthy road.

 

[lyra]

@Phoenix , my sister has had court mandated psychiatric therapies. It's pointless. She officially has borderline personality disorder (but has assaulted people unlike most), is a sociopath, is a narcissist, and has had depression identified at age 13. She has been in jail twice that I know of. Once for forging prescription meds. I don't have any contact with her. Nor do her 2 adult kids. She began abusing drugs including IV drugs when she was a young teen. She is now 60 years old. Some people can't be helped. And some who could be helped by a professional, refuse treatment because they are either afraid, or because they don't really want to give up their "highs" (ie gambling, drugs, other negative behaviours).

 

[House Cat]

@Phoenix , my sister has had court mandated psychiatric therapies. It's pointless. She officially has borderline personality disorder (but has assaulted people unlike most), is a sociopath, is a narcissist, and has had depression identified at age 13. She has been in jail twice that I know of. Once for forging prescription meds. I don't have any contact with her. Nor do her 2 adult kids. She began abusing drugs including IV drugs when she was a young teen. She is now 60 years old. Some people can't be helped. And some who could be helped by a professional, refuse treatment because they are either afraid, or because they don't really want to give up their "highs" (ie gambling, drugs, other negative behaviours).

I’m sorry Lyra.

 

[lyra]

@House Cat Really, it's not an issue for me. The further away, the better. I've been over it with my therapist, and he agrees, just stay away from her and people like her. She has no feelings for other people. In a sick way, I find it kind of fascinating that I'm related to her. I know that sounds weird. Maybe it was the drugs that addled her brain? Maybe it is genetic, who knows.

 

[Arkteia]

I am trying my best to take care of my own health first.

That same term, "codependent", was used in my other thread concerning the same person. How do I protect myself to prevent myself from becoming a codependant? Or am I already one, by virtue of me being aware of his issues and somewhat being involved?

I try to distance myself from his issues, but that he's so severely affected has me concerned. I guess it's bc I've never known anyone before that suffers from a whole host of problems that he does, ie. depression, anxiety, suicide, gambling, debts, substance abuse etc...that I feel overwhelmed and inadequate, not knowing how best to deal with these issues, for both his benefit as well as mine.

So often when we feel sorry for people with problems - and it is so normal for a woman to feel compassion - we fall into the pattern of overcaring, something that parents might do. One of the consequences might be the feeling of inadequacy and personal failure when, despite our help and concern, people do poorly. (Again, this is exactly what we might feel as parents - "my fault").

We own our feelings, but when the ones we care for fail, it is not our fault.

And it is hard to distance ourselves from the result without not distancing from our feelings, but this is exactly what needs to be done.

Sounds that you have worked very hard to help your friend. The lack of motion on his side, though, is his own failure.

I have known women who had good experiences with CODA.

Here is the way to reach them from other countries.
http://coda.org/index.cfm/coda-area-contacts/
Wishing you the best of luck, @Phoenix

 

[Alexiszoe]

@Phoenix , depression comes in various forms and it's not always as obvious. The friend of mine I mentioned - he's able to function and go to work, even go out with friends. But some weekends the darkness overwhelms him and he become paralyzed into doing nothing. This pervades other aspects of his day to day life - feeling stuck and difficulty just breaking out and doing something positive or different to change his life e.g. stuck in a toxic work situation for years. For most normal people it can be exasperating and wanting to say "do something!" to the other person - I have certainly felt like it! But when in that head space one doesn't think straight or behave the usual way that normal people would. Coupled with your friend's addiction it can be even more difficult to break free.

As others have said, the best you could do is offer a listening year, suggestion for therapy etc. But you are not responsible for him, because it is not on you - but on him to make that first step.

Re: the ring, it is a gift from my mother. The reason why there's no posts about it is the Mister is security conscious about the information we share online sad

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: the ring, it is a gift from my mother. The reason why there's no posts about it is the Mister is security conscious about the information we share online sad

That IS sad! There are tons of diamonds over 3 cts and up to about 9 posted on this forum. Your diamond looks so beautiful! I hope one day you'll feel that you can post!

 

[Phoenix]

To me, codependent means you are intertwined with someone else’s problems and it is affecting you in a negative way. You feel responsible for their well being and you want to fix things.
If he were getting help, it would be one thing, but he sounds as though he would rather fall apart. Either he will rally to help himself, or he will fail. You can’t change that. He needs professional help. Period. You are not a trained professional, so please don’t fault yourself in any way.
Honestly, tough love might be the only help you can give. Tell him he needs professional help or a 12 step program. Offer to go to one meeting with him and if he says no, tell him you must distance yourself. Walking away may not change anything, but it might. You must realize that what is happening to him is his business, You need to get on with your life. Even if this were your adult child, I would be telling you the same thing.

You are sooo right!!

I don't live in the same country as he does. He'd have to sign up for help himself. I've given him ideas of resources/ links to where help is available. I hope he seeks help asap.

 

[Phoenix]

There are online quizzes to see if you are codependent.

Learning about this condition and recovering from it is a worthy road.

I'll look them up. Thank you.