stupid excuses and how to deal

[suchende]

The title might not fit 100% but it's how I feel, like he's making excuses to push me back and not have an honest discussion.

Okay, a little background...

We've been together a little over a year. I am 24 and he is 25. My bf, K, is a law student, about to start his second year. I am a lobbyist in DC with my own plans for law school and want to start in 2010. Also, I think it's relevant to note that I was raised in a small town in the midwest, and K grew up in California, but has a decidedly east coast attitude about marriage.

I have made it no secret that I want to get married in the next 5 years. I don't think we're ready to get engaged yet, but I do want to know that's where we're headed. When we had been together around 6 months, I asked him where he thought this relationship was going, and he said he didn't know. This morning, I brought it up again, and again, he said he didn't know, and that I need to just relax and enjoy where we are right now. I tried to push the issue and he said, "If I tell you we're definitely getting married, then we're already engaged without a ring." I said something like, are you just never going to get married to anyone? Do you see me as someone you might marry? And he said, "Okay, fine, MAYBE we are going to get married someday."

Well sh*t.

I don't think it's unreasonable for me to be asking about this right now. Am I wrong to be pushing it? What is up with the whole, "if we talk about it we're as good as engaged" thing?

 

[neatfreak]

He sounds like he just plain old isn''t ready. And only you can decide how long to wait for him.

 

[misskitty]

I think it''s perfectly reasonable to want to know where things are headed. I also think that your boyfriend is WAY off in saying that talking about plans to get married == engaged.

Honestly, it makes more sense to talk about marriage and the future before engagement, if for no other reason than to be sure that you''re both on the same page about things.

This sounds like a communication/expectation misfire. Have you brought up that his interpretation of "do you see us getting married in the future?" isn''t the same as yours? As in, have you explained that you''re not asking the same question that he is answering?

 

[purselover]

I''m sorry your conversation didn''t go as well as you liked. If I were you I would be pretty upset right now. I don''t think it''s unreasonable to want to know where your relationship is going after a year. It''s not like you want to get engaged tomorrow, you would just like to know it will be an option in the next few years. If I were you I would think about how long you''re willing to stay in this limbo. In 2 years if he still isn''t sure where this relationship is going will you be okay with that? I think it''s silly to waste time on a relationship that isn''t going to become serious.

Lol, I''m also curious about this east coast marriage attitude? FI and I are born and bred east coasters and we didn''t "put off" marriage.

 

[suchende]

Date: 7/2/2009 9:30:43 AM
Author: purselover
I''m sorry your conversation didn''t go as well as you liked. If I were you I would be pretty upset right now. I don''t think it''s unreasonable to want to know where your relationship is going after a year. It''s not like you want to get engaged tomorrow, you would just like to know it will be an option in the next few years. If I were you I would think about how long you''re willing to stay in this limbo. In 2 years if he still isn''t sure where this relationship is going will you be okay with that? I think it''s silly to waste time on a relationship that isn''t going to become serious.

Lol, I''m also curious about this east coast marriage attitude? FI and I are born and bred east coasters and we didn''t ''put off'' marriage.

Well, out of my midwestern circle of friends, I am the only one who is not married or engaged, but the girls I work with, who are native east coasters, don''t know anyone from their high school friend circles who is not. Anecdotal evidence, I know, but I do get the sense that east coasters are more willing to wait until their late 20s/early 30s for marriage and kids.

 

[suchende]

Date: 7/2/2009 9:28:56 AM
Author: neatfreak
He sounds like he just plain old isn''t ready. And only you can decide how long to wait for him.

I am willing to wait a lot longer if there''s a light at the end of the tunnel!

 

[purselover]

Date: 7/2/2009 9:33:54 AM
Author: suchende

Date: 7/2/2009 9:30:43 AM
Author: purselover
I''m sorry your conversation didn''t go as well as you liked. If I were you I would be pretty upset right now. I don''t think it''s unreasonable to want to know where your relationship is going after a year. It''s not like you want to get engaged tomorrow, you would just like to know it will be an option in the next few years. If I were you I would think about how long you''re willing to stay in this limbo. In 2 years if he still isn''t sure where this relationship is going will you be okay with that? I think it''s silly to waste time on a relationship that isn''t going to become serious.

Lol, I''m also curious about this east coast marriage attitude? FI and I are born and bred east coasters and we didn''t ''put off'' marriage.

Well, out of my midwestern circle of friends, I am the only one who is not married or engaged, but the girls I work with, who are native east coasters, don''t know anyone from their high school friend circles who is not. Anecdotal evidence, I know, but I do get the sense that east coasters are more willing to wait until their late 20s/early 30s for marriage and kids.

ohhh yeah that is true, for some reason I thought you meant we were against marraige in general!

 

[NakedFinger]

Date: 7/2/2009 9:33:54 AM
Author: suchende

Date: 7/2/2009 9:30:43 AM
Author: purselover
I'm sorry your conversation didn't go as well as you liked. If I were you I would be pretty upset right now. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to know where your relationship is going after a year. It's not like you want to get engaged tomorrow, you would just like to know it will be an option in the next few years. If I were you I would think about how long you're willing to stay in this limbo. In 2 years if he still isn't sure where this relationship is going will you be okay with that? I think it's silly to waste time on a relationship that isn't going to become serious.

Lol, I'm also curious about this east coast marriage attitude? FI and I are born and bred east coasters and we didn't 'put off' marriage.

Well, out of my midwestern circle of friends, I am the only one who is not married or engaged, but the girls I work with, who are native east coasters, don't know anyone from their high school friend circles who is not. Anecdotal evidence, I know, but I do get the sense that east coasters are more willing to wait until their late 20s/early 30s for marriage and kids.

I assume you meant to say the east coaster dont know anyone from HS who is?

I will second that statement though. Not a general rule, but definitely something you see a lot as a demographic. Like a lot people I know that are from the midwest say that people get married at 18, 19 ,20 and nobody thinks anything of it. Infact, by 24 a lot are married with a few kids by then! Its not odd there and is socially acceptable. However, I do agree (as an east coaster myself) that the marriage age is definitely (on average) higher than it is in the midwest. I am a wedding planner, and large percentage of my brides are 28-34, estabilished succesful women who I guess just waited to get that out of the way before getting married? Not saying its a solid fact, a lot of that is speculation from what people tell me, but I can get what you mean.

 

[suchende]

Oops, yes NakedFinger, that''s what I meant.

Honestly, I am perfectly happy to be unmarried at 24, and perfectly happy to wait another 5 years before I get married. I am NOT happy to (emotionally) support K through law school, keep investing more of myself into this relationship, and then have him say at 30 that he''s too young to commit.

It''s a very tricky connundrum.

 

[lucyandroger]

Suchende, I''m sorry you''re feeling this way.

Does K say things like "I want to be with you forever" or talk about your future together (kids, house, etc.)? If so, then I think it''s less of a commitment thing and more of a "marriage" thing. My BF used to be weird about actually discussing the "m" word even though we would talk about our future because he thought it would somehow take away from the romance of a proposal.

Another thing is, this is a pretty stressful time to be a law student, especially one just going into the job search. I personally would be terrified about my future and so maybe this is spilling over into his personal life (fears of being able to provide for a wife, buy a ring, etc.)? I might cut him some slack until he''s landed a job this fall **fingers crossed for him**

But I think you should also keep in mind that you''re going to need to make decisions about law schools in the not-too-distant future and you don''t want to limit your options for someone who won''t commit. Please, please, please keep your options open. You don''t want to be kicking yourself in the future about giving up a great opportunity for a man who will only maybe marry you.

 

[Londongirl1]

Date: 7/2/2009 9:28:56 AM
Author: neatfreak
He sounds like he just plain old isn''t ready. And only you can decide how long to wait for him.

Ditto - I can understand where you bf is coming from. I guess he''s thinking that you''ve only been dating just over a year and he''s still a student who hasn''t established a career yet. I don''t think he''s ready to discuss marriage even if it is in the future. If you want a cast iron guarantee that he''ll marry you one day then I don''t think you''re gonna get it.

 

[suchende]

Lucy, I absolutely think you''re right, and honestly, you hit on the reason I have been as patient as I have been: the class of 2011 has a LOT of reasons to be feeling unstable... but I am feeling unstable too! And you''re also right about choosing a law school. If I get in somewhere close-ish to him, great, but if I don''t? Do I want to go through the torture of a 1L LDR?

 

[tlh]

Date: 7/2/2009 10:09:57 AM
Author: Londongirl1

Date: 7/2/2009 9:28:56 AM
Author: neatfreak
He sounds like he just plain old isn''t ready. And only you can decide how long to wait for him.

Ditto - I can understand where you bf is coming from. I guess he''s thinking that you''ve only been dating just over a year and he''s still a student who hasn''t established a career yet. I don''t think he''s ready to discuss marriage even if it is in the future. If you want a cast iron guarantee that he''ll marry you one day then I don''t think you''re gonna get it.

AGREE!

Sometimes you just gotta follow your gut, and not overanalyze things. If you are having fun enjoy it. But if you feel that the wonderful time you spend with him isn''t worth it unless you know you''ll get married... then you might want to rethink things. There are no guarantees in life or in love.

 

[suchende]

Date: 7/2/2009 10:19:08 AM
Author: tlh

Date: 7/2/2009 10:09:57 AM
Author: Londongirl1

Date: 7/2/2009 9:28:56 AM
Author: neatfreak
He sounds like he just plain old isn''t ready. And only you can decide how long to wait for him.

Ditto - I can understand where you bf is coming from. I guess he''s thinking that you''ve only been dating just over a year and he''s still a student who hasn''t established a career yet. I don''t think he''s ready to discuss marriage even if it is in the future. If you want a cast iron guarantee that he''ll marry you one day then I don''t think you''re gonna get it.

AGREE!

Sometimes you just gotta follow your gut, and not overanalyze things. If you are having fun enjoy it. But if you feel that the wonderful time you spend with him isn''t worth it unless you know you''ll get married... then you might want to rethink things. There are no guarantees in life or in love.

He would probably agree with this, but I just cannot relax and enjoy right now when there''s so much uncertainty. Help me with this! I am scared about being one of those women who just waits and waits and then gets let down after years of sharing their life with someone.

Am I being silly? Letting irrational fears undermine a relationship that, generally, makes us both very happy?

 

[purselover]

Date: 7/2/2009 9:55:32 AM
Author: suchende
Oops, yes NakedFinger, that''s what I meant.

Honestly, I am perfectly happy to be unmarried at 24, and perfectly happy to wait another 5 years before I get married. I am NOT happy to (emotionally) support K through law school, keep investing more of myself into this relationship, and then have him say at 30 that he''s too young to commit.

It''s a very tricky connundrum.

I totally see where you''re coming from it is A LOT to emotionally support someone through law school, been there doing that as well, not a lot of fun! So I can''t even imagine going through law school myself at the same time. I imagine when you start school especially if you''re LD there will be a lot of stress on your relationship. 1L is really the time to focus on you and your career you shouldn''t have to worry about whether or not your SO will be there for you with a ring when this is all over. Honestly if SO didn''t let me know how serious he was about our relationship I probably would''ve left him this year, I wouldn''t want to take the chance it was all for nothing. Likewise if he didn''t know I was willing to support him through this time no matter what, I really think his studies would''ve suffered. I think law school makes a relationship a thousand times stronger or it tears it apart, I have to say the fear of finding a job and all of 1L''s stress really made SO appreciate me that much more b/c he knew no matter what happened I would be there at the end of the day. It solidified his desire to get married, not scared him away. Whenever someone says something about how great he''s doing in school and how proud they are he always says it''s not just me I would be nowhere if I didn''t have purselover supporting me.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 7/2/2009 10:11:41 AM
Author: suchende
Lucy, I absolutely think you''re right, and honestly, you hit on the reason I have been as patient as I have been: the class of 2011 has a LOT of reasons to be feeling unstable... but I am feeling unstable too! And you''re also right about choosing a law school. If I get in somewhere close-ish to him, great, but if I don''t? Do I want to go through the torture of a 1L LDR?

Oh gosh, this is so difficult. I can tell you''re a "life planner" like me. I would feel really uncomfortable being in limbo like this as well. It''s hard to just sit back and have fun when you have to make life decisions.

You''re both going through really stressful times and I think you need to just remember to put yourself first. This is what I would do - focus on your law school apps, apply everywhere (not just the NY schools), and wait and see where the relationship is when it''s time to accept at a school.

I''m not gonna lie, a 1L LDR certainly would be torture for me. Let''s just say that both my BF and I broke up with our SO''s at the time by the second week of September. On the other hand, I saw LOTS of couples make it.

I think you really do need to listen to your gut on this one. Is he being this way because of the stress? Is he just not ready for marriage now? Or will he never be ready to marry you? I think deep down you know the answer.

I also think this is a great test for your relationship. I used to think things would get easier once we graduated and started practicing...but it sooooooo does not. The stress is ALWAYS there. (Right now I''m dreading telling my BF that I just got an email saying I have to work tomorrow

) So you just kind of have to learn how each other deals with the stress and have faith in the relationship.

 

[suchende]

purselover... you got me all indignant, lol. he has done freaking AWESOME in law school, and i know i deserve some of the credit for that. i won''t get into the details out of respect for him, but it was not. easy.

 

[suchende]

lucy, do you work for a firm?

 

[purselover]

Date: 7/2/2009 10:47:30 AM
Author: suchende
purselover... you got me all indignant, lol. he has done freaking AWESOME in law school, and i know i deserve some of the credit for that. i won''t get into the details out of respect for him, but it was not. easy.

oh no, I really hope you''re not indignant towards me! Please don''t take me the wrong way, I totally meant that I know how invested you are in helping him out, I agree behind every great law student there is an equally great SO

I just hope he does the same for you is all I meant.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 7/2/2009 11:00:18 AM
Author: suchende
lucy, do you work for a firm?

Yep, big DC firm.

 

[suchende]

Date: 7/2/2009 11:03:52 AM
Author: purselover

Date: 7/2/2009 10:47:30 AM
Author: suchende
purselover... you got me all indignant, lol. he has done freaking AWESOME in law school, and i know i deserve some of the credit for that. i won''t get into the details out of respect for him, but it was not. easy.

oh no, I really hope you''re not indignant towards me! Please don''t take me the wrong way, I totally meant that I know how invested you are in helping him out, I agree behind every great law student there is an equally great SO

I just hope he does the same for you is all I meant.

haha, no, not blaming you, i think i am just in a tiff and feeling under-appreciated

 

[neatfreak]

So the thing is-you've been together a year. And in guy time-that isn't long. Especially a guy with the east coast mentality about marriage. He probably is NOWHERE ready to think about marriage as I said before. Although you feel that you've supported him in some way through a year of school-it might mean different things to you than it does him.

I do think however that things will become apparent *if* you need to try and do a LDR while you are in law school. He'll either be gung ho for it or not; and if not then you don't have to deal. If he IS willing then that will be a strong indicator of his feelings for you and your relationship and you can take it from there.

If I am honest though I don't like his reaction of freaking out when talking about the future at all. It's one thing to say "I pinky swear we are getting married someday!" and a completely different thing to have an adult conversation about your feelings for each other, intentions for the relationship, etc.

If he can't even have an intelligent, grownup conversation about his feelings or intentions then it might indicate that he doesn't see you guys getting married anytime soon. And if that is the case I would think twice about keeping up a relationship if you really do want to get married in the next few years. Some guys just won't be ready until their mid-30's or later.

I don't mean to be harsh so I hope it isn't coming off that way-but some guys just are NOT in a place to even think about marriage even if they have a fantastic girl.

 

[suchende]

Date: 7/2/2009 11:05:00 AM
Author: lucyandroger

Date: 7/2/2009 11:00:18 AM
Author: suchende
lucy, do you work for a firm?

Yep, big DC firm.

yeah, associate life cannot be easy on a relationship. i can''t say it makes me want to give up my gov''t affairs lifestyle...

 

[decodelighted]

Will the status of your relationship affect where you apply for law school? That may be a tangible "logical" reason that he can understand. I would NOT limit your chances considering you are not engaged. I''d apply far & wide! What if you got into Stanford? Would you not go?

 

[suchende]

Date: 7/2/2009 11:10:19 AM
Author: decodelighted
Will the status of your relationship affect where you apply for law school? That may be a tangible ''logical'' reason that he can understand. I would NOT limit your chances considering you are not engaged. I''d apply far & wide! What if you got into Stanford? Would you not go?

No, I hate California!

Seriously though, I want to go to the best school I get into, even if it''s at a distance. He has said he''ll wait and be supportive, even if that means going to school in Chicago, or Richmond, VA, and I believe that he''s being sincere.

 

[suchende]

Date: 7/2/2009 11:07:47 AM
Author: neatfreak
So the thing is-you've been together a year. And in guy time-that isn't long. Especially a guy with the east coast mentality about marriage. He probably is NOWHERE ready to think about marriage as I said before. Although you feel that you've supported him in some way through a year of school-it might mean different things to you than it does him.

I do think however that things will become apparent *if* you need to try and do a LDR while you are in law school. He'll either be gung ho for it or not; and if not then you don't have to deal. If he IS willing then that will be a strong indicator of his feelings for you and your relationship and you can take it from there.

If I am honest though I don't like his reaction of freaking out when talking about the future at all. It's one thing to say 'I pinky swear we are getting married someday!' and a completely different thing to have an adult conversation about your feelings for each other, intentions for the relationship, etc.

If he can't even have an intelligent, grownup conversation about his feelings or intentions then it might indicate that he doesn't see you guys getting married anytime soon. And if that is the case I would think twice about keeping up a relationship if you really do want to get married in the next few years. Some guys just won't be ready until their mid-30's or later.

I don't mean to be harsh so I hope it isn't coming off that way-but some guys just are NOT in a place to even think about marriage even if they have a fantastic girl.

If you're right about this, we've got completely different problems, like his distorted view of how hard it is to get someone through 1L, especially with economic pressures being what they are.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 7/2/2009 11:19:37 AM
Author: suchende

Date: 7/2/2009 11:07:47 AM

Author: neatfreak

So the thing is-you''ve been together a year. And in guy time-that isn''t long. Especially a guy with the east coast mentality about marriage. He probably is NOWHERE ready to think about marriage as I said before. Although you feel that you''ve supported him in some way through a year of school-it might mean different things to you than it does him.



I do think however that things will become apparent *if* you need to try and do a LDR while you are in law school. He''ll either be gung ho for it or not; and if not then you don''t have to deal. If he IS willing then that will be a strong indicator of his feelings for you and your relationship and you can take it from there.


If I am honest though I don''t like his reaction of freaking out when talking about the future at all. It''s one thing to say ''I pinky swear we are getting married someday!'' and a completely different thing to have an adult conversation about your feelings for each other, intentions for the relationship, etc.


If he can''t even have an intelligent, grownup conversation about his feelings or intentions then it might indicate that he doesn''t see you guys getting married anytime soon. And if that is the case I would think twice about keeping up a relationship if you really do want to get married in the next few years. Some guys just won''t be ready until their mid-30''s or later.


I don''t mean to be harsh so I hope it isn''t coming off that way-but some guys just are NOT in a place to even think about marriage even if they have a fantastic girl.

If you''re right about this, we''ve got completely different problems, like his distorted view of how hard it is to get someone through 1L, especially with economic pressures being what they are.

Well hopefully I''m not!

I''ve just seen it before where a guy doesn''t value (or recognize) the amount of support that a SO has given ya know?

If you think he''s being sincere about supporting you through school (in whatever way he means) then just go for the gold-apply everywhere to law school and see where it takes you. You''ll know pretty quickly if he meant it or not!

 

[iwannaprettyone]

been there done that...

Set your own deadline, if he misses it you got to be prepare to GO. This is how my story went and 5 years later we married and it was perfect (i''m 27 he''s 30). His qualms and "excuses" truly were valid, but not what I wanted to hear at the time.

This maybe a blessing in disguise- and remember life is short- so what''s the rush.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 7/2/2009 11:10:17 AM
Author: suchende

Date: 7/2/2009 11:05:00 AM
Author: lucyandroger

Date: 7/2/2009 11:00:18 AM
Author: suchende
lucy, do you work for a firm?

Yep, big DC firm.

yeah, associate life cannot be easy on a relationship. i can''t say it makes me want to give up my gov''t affairs lifestyle...

Knowing what I know now, I''m not sure that I would...

But on the BF front, since he''s talked about supporting you wherever you go to school, it sounds like he''s pretty committed. I think the marriage talks just seem like an added stress on his part right now.

 

[trillionaire]

It''s been a little over a year? I''d probably avoid the topic too or have an anxiety attack if my boyfriend of just over a year had asked me where I saw the relationship going. Some people just need more time. *shrugs*