OMC of my discounted dreams? Opinions needed!

[AL12]

Pretty stone. Pretty ring Amsterdam (NL) and Antwerp (B) are old diamond trade centers, so I would think such a find is legit. Only the headache of an international transaction would give me some reservations

Thank you for your input!

 

[AL12]

Hi AL12. I am not the typical Pricescoper. I am okay with inclusions on real true antique stones because I have to be. I prefer antique cuts (which are unmatchable) to modern cuts. I HAVE seen some modern cuts lately that look very much like antique cuts but no Old Mine Cuts that look right to me.

I also have recently gotten interested in colored stones, where color is king. When you buy a colored stone you look at color on the hand, and then accept certain inclusions as part of the necessary package (Unless you have an unlimited budget).

I’m older, and my eyesight isn‘t as good, so I see mostly the color and light return (cut) of my stones not the inclusions. So if inclusions are what I have to accept to get a much whiter than normal antique stone, I seriously consider accepting them. IF they are NOT too abundant… Cut has to be really good to accept obvious inclusions.

On the other hand, this is your lifetime set. So this may not be the time to be settling on a diamond with obvious inclusions. I can’t really tell the extent of them - can you please post close up photos of the inclusions?

I wanted to see the ring on the hand so I could try to gauge stone color more. I can’t tell if the stone looks whiter because of inclusions, haziness, or actual whiteness. Close up photos would be great, no need to ask for more, post the photos you currently have.

I‘m thinking that you might not be happy with an included stone in a trilogy ring with two other non-included ideal cut diamonds. If you are thinking you might use modern antique cut side stones (Distinctive Gem) those side stones will likely have different light return, meaning they will outperform an antique! You might be best served by commissioning a “complete” modern antique cut MMD trilogy from Distinctive Gem? Or trying to do a trilogy with Alex Park.

To me, this antique OMC diamond makes sense in the context of a historical package (period setting, old rose cuts etc.) but maybe not as part of a perfect lifetime wedding set. I have also had the issue of finding a center antique diamond but have not liked the setting and I’ve stalled trying to find side stones or a new setting. It’s a process.

Thank you so much for your detailed response! I actually have a lot of thoughts running through my head with your response but before I address them, I thought it best to upload the videos of the ring on the hand and the upclose photos of the inclusions in the event that PS-ers see something that makes the stone an automatic dud.

Again, I really appreciate that the vendor is being transparent (at least from my view). Even the newer videos, I sense that he is trying to show how the inclusions are visible to the eye.


Here are the videos first:

 

[AL12]

Here are the close-ups of the inclusions. They definitely look bad and scary from this close view I can definitely imagine PS-ers cringing at these shots.

 

[AL12]

Two more photos from the vendor site… bad quality because I cannot save the picture so I’ve taken a photo of the monitor with my cell
phone.

 

[klrrrr]

Are you open to auction pieces? I love this stone.. https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/antique-diamond-cluster-ring-2011-c-3d4441a8cb

 

[LightBright]

This is a really hard call. I really like the cut of this stone, and I think it is authentic. It does look plausibly H. i don’t know how obvious the inclusions will be, but you will see them.

The cost of the entire ring is decent, and comparable K color almost 2 carat OMCs are going for almost triple that price. I guess there’s scarcity now. You could keep looking but you WILL be paying double the cost if not triple for a large size higher color antique diamond. And cuts are all variable so even if the color clarity and cost are right, the cut might not be. Like I said before matching side stones is a PIA.

What about something like this? H/I all done (i don’t see lab reports). In a white metal, these stones will look whiter.

2.78ctw Old Mine Cut Diamond Trilogy Ring

The wonderful meaning behind trilogy rings is never lost on us - a representation of the past, present, and future is a beautiful thing, especially when doing so in diamonds!We’ve taken three chunky old mine cuts and lined them upfront and center, all set in buttery yellow gold. The result is a...

www.jewelsbygrace.com

or this

2.53ctw Old Mine Cut Diamond Trilogy Ring

The wonderful meaning behind trilogy rings is never lost on us - a representation of the past, present, and future is a beautiful thing, especially when doing so in diamonds!We’ve taken three chunky old mine cuts and lined them upfront and center, all set in icy platinum. The result is a chic...

www.jewelsbygrace.com

This one is high color (claimed to be)

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

 

[oldcutclubmember]

I wouldn’t consider myself an expert AT ALL but I love old cuts (I don’t own any new/modern cuts). With old cuts, I tend to go with my gut and what I like in MY eyes.

That being said, here are some of my thoughts. I think this stone is a bit spready/shallow so while the face up measurements may be around 2 carats, it may be actually smaller in carat weight (perhaps you can ask for a side profile pic). I think your main concern is the face up size so this probably isn’t a factor but I think it’s just worth noting. Also, based on the new videos, I don’t think this is a GIA F, more like H/I. The seller is based in Europe, so perhaps their estimate is more in line with EGL and they often differ in their color grade. However, it also actually may be just reflecting/showing the gold setting as I think the stone is more on the shallow side since the stone definitely looks whiter in the vendor site pics than in the new videos.

It also looks like the weather is overcast in the new videos so I don’t think these are great examples but the stone doesn’t look as lively in the new videos.

The ring as whole is VERY pretty. I love it and as a right hand ring, I would buy this if I wanted a right hand ring. I think it’s a great price for the whole ring and the inclusions and all of the issues I noted above actually don’t bother me if this was to be a right hand ring. I also very much like the shape/cut.

If this is going to be your final upgraded engagement ring, I would most likely pass. I think all of the issues I noted above WOULD bother me if this was going to be my engagement ring. As others have mentioned, a custom made 3 stone setting that is a decent period appropriate repro will not be a cheap setting. It will take time and not something that I would want to do twice. I would want to get it right the first time with my forever stone. I just upgraded my engagement ring (vintage asscher) from a GIA M to a G (same size and placed in the same setting). I’m not that color sensitive but the M color bothered me in my engagement ring. The M is in a bezeled pendant now and I love it and it doesn’t bother me at ALL as a pendant. I have non-engagement rings/stones (all old cuts) that vary from I/J all the way to an N. The color doesn’t bother me because it’s not my engagement ring.

So I think it really comes down to how much inclusions, color, etc. you can tolerate and will be happy with as your final upgrade all the while considering how much finger coverage you want.

 

[LightBright]

I agree with Muluver, in that the stone maybe a shallower than average OMC, need to see profile (if vendor has estimated by all measurements, that should be fairly accurate estimate). I also agree that for a forever ring, you might not want to compromise. It will be a lot of work to put together a trilogy w matching stones, etc. You wouldn’t want to do that twice, IMO.

 

[AL12]

Are you open to auction pieces? I love this stone.. https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/antique-diamond-cluster-ring-2011-c-3d4441a8cb

Pretty! I would be open to auction but as you can tell from my back and forth... I need to really be confident in my purchase and auction makes me feel like I would need to make a pressured decision?

I love this find as well and the cluster around also has great potential but the L-M is very scary to me. I think I would prefer lower ct size so that I could get into the H-I-J and *maybe* K range.

Thank you for all your finds though , I've never even heard of this site or considered auction before!

 

[AL12]

This is a really hard call. I really like the cut of this stone, and I think it is authentic. It does look plausibly H. i don’t know how obvious the inclusions will be, but you will see them.

The cost of the entire ring is decent, and comparable K color almost 2 carat OMCs are going for almost triple that price. I guess there’s scarcity now. You could keep looking but you WILL be paying double the cost if not triple for a large size higher color antique diamond. And cuts are all variable so even if the color clarity and cost are right, the cut might not be. Like I said before matching side stones is a PIA.

What about something like this? H/I all done (i don’t see lab reports). In a white metal, these stones will look whiter.

2.78ctw Old Mine Cut Diamond Trilogy Ring

The wonderful meaning behind trilogy rings is never lost on us - a representation of the past, present, and future is a beautiful thing, especially when doing so in diamonds!We’ve taken three chunky old mine cuts and lined them upfront and center, all set in buttery yellow gold. The result is a...

www.jewelsbygrace.com

or this

2.53ctw Old Mine Cut Diamond Trilogy Ring

The wonderful meaning behind trilogy rings is never lost on us - a representation of the past, present, and future is a beautiful thing, especially when doing so in diamonds!We’ve taken three chunky old mine cuts and lined them upfront and center, all set in icy platinum. The result is a chic...

www.jewelsbygrace.com

This one is high color (claimed to be)

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

Correct when you say that I would be looking to pay almost the triple the price for around 2ct and in the "whiter" color zone.

I have looked at Jewels by Grace's site many many times and I usually based my estimates on what I see in her store (although I do feel like her larger antique cuts may be a tad bit marked up compared to if I was to find a "great" deal). The first two links I've seen before and the ratio to side stones to center stone is not the final look I am going for. The cuts also look to be a bit narrow versus like a pillowy cushioney shape that I have a preference for.

Your third link is pretty close to the ratio of side to center stone that I am looking for! But I know that I won't be happy with a 0.80 ct center

Thank you so much for sharing the finds though!

 

[AL12]

***I got interrupted mid-thought. Place holder until I can come back and reply to ALL the good stuff mentioned above stepping away for family time***

 

[AL12]

Strange, the edit button is not working for me right now so I will make a new post versus editing above.

@LightBright and @Muluver : as always super appreciative that both are you are taking time out to dissect the pro and cons of this piece for me. I've asked the vendor for a profile shot and am waiting for them. His initial measurements with calipers are as follows: 7.8x6.7x5.2. I am definitely not an expert so when it gets into more technical talk like shallow table etc. I have no eye for it and it's really beyond me so I appreciate any wisdom.

@LightBright : I think you said a trigger word for me... which is "rare". I think I am a sucker for a rare find/deal but only if it's something I've somewhat been meaning to purchase anyway (e.g. I would not buy a rare piece just due to the fact that it is rare). Even my current stone which has sentimental value to me now was a very unique faceting found by a price-scoper here and I think I pulled the final trigger on it with many people on this forum commenting on non-standard faceting. Thank you for your input on color. My preferred color range is no lower than H-I-J and maybe K. My current e-stone is an H and I am perfectly happy with it as the color trade-off for lower cost made perfect sense to me. Any warmer than J/K would likely be off the table for me unless I could confirm that it faced up white in person. I have so many other thoughts on your comments but trying to keep this more on the succinct side.

@Muluver : I dont think I am being biased when I agree with you that I do think the second videos were from a more overcast day. That was my initial thought as well. If indeed the stone is more spready, I think I would be okay with that. Of course just to be able to say it, I would love a stone that said 2ct on paper but I realize ct size and face up size do not always go hand in hand. I have taken all your comments about this not being best for a final wedding set piece and best for a more fun piece such as RHR.... that being said...

Current thoughts: Despite all the many many warning presented above by various members and lots of members whose opinions I greatly respect, I think my top option is what was presented by @kgizo which was to: buy this ring to scratch this itch and then potentially replace with MMD in the future. Although financially it kind of seems like wasted money/double dipping, I know that MMD is not going anywhere and I wonder if I will completely regret letting this one get away. In fact the technology and cutting is improving moment by moment for MMD so if I do get a MMD down the line, it will likely be a better version of whatever is going to be released in the next few months. I can also look into MMD for my side stones (@LightBright noted and I think I completely agree with you that Distinctive Gem ideal cuts would not be the way to go for side stones due to likely large and clashing light performance). If I do replace the center would MMD, I could then pop this stone back into its original setting and convert it into a brooch or what not. I don't love all antiques... but i actually love this one was a whole set and would definitely wear it. Is this wishful thinking??

Although I have a comfortable lifestyle with my family even if my family were to make double to triple what we do now, I don't see myself in the future spending $15-20K for a single stone (which is what a true earth-mined 2ct of would cost and possibly more). While I love pretty things and luxury items, I still live a life where I take a lot of consideration on how my money is spent and even a purchase like this comes with much much thought. Basically, I do see that the future of more of my larger size stones will be MMD (or antique!) while I treasure the earth-mined stones that I have.

I am a little scared of all these horror-ish stories of not being able to buy matching side stones...and the verbatim words "not something I will want to do twice" so I'll have to really consider that.

Still 100% open to other thoughts, inputs, considerations. I have a few days before I make the final decision everyones input has been really helpful for me to determine what I really want and what is really important to me!

 

[AL12]

Here are the photos of the side profile. It doesn’t look to be a super puffy crown as I’ve seen in other omcs but I am not an expert. This vendor (I really hope is legit) has been super communicative despite difference in time zone.

He states “ the thickness from the top of the stone to the bottom of the bezel is 6mm”

I have a video which I can post later. Just takes more time to post videos.

 

[petrock<3]

Thank you for this!!! So much info and honestly now I'm swaying back and forth. I'm sorry everyone I am indecisive in nature about pieces that will cost me in the thousand of dollar range. Let me try to hit all the info/questions you provided.

Per the website and discussion the ring is circa 1890 - 1900, and there are some chips on the rose cuts too and the rose cuts are a bit wonky shaped which is why yes, the ring is so "affordable". Besides guilt at dismantling the ring, I am okay with the extra cost to re-set because as I mentioned, to get a better clarity stone of this size would easily cost me 10-15K more if even that. I still feel as if this route would be my most budget friendly option.

Color: Yes , it's definitely possible that it's a bit warmer as the stone has not been graded and all are estimates. But based on the photos and videos given to me, the stone is showing up white enough to my untrained eye without glaring yellow/brown/champagne hues that would throw me off.

Inclusions: I don't know if you can answer this black and white, but can you explain a bit more why the inclusions would not bother you? I'm really am trying to figure out....if it will bother me. Of course if I had a choice I would not like them to be there, but I am a realist that at my budget, I will have to compromise somewhere and for some reason the inclusions were not an immediate deal breaker. I think it had enough going for it at a very attractive price point. He also sent me some close up photos of the inclusions but I haven't posted them since I do think they are visible in the photos and videos anyway.

DG AVC: I exchanged some emails with Rhino. He is awesome/amazing, cannot rave enough about his customer service. I was 90% going to pull the trigger with a lab AVC and then his new lab AVOMC but after staring after photos and videos for days, it just didn't have that true OMC faceting that I loved and I couldn't follow through. His lab AVOMC is in the back of my mind for potential side stones however if the three stones complement each other.

Returns: If I purchase, I want to be as confident as possible to the point where returning is not even on my radar unless it turns out to be something totally wrong. Doing an international return sounds like a huge headache and stressful process to me? If this was a US buy, I would have bought the ring to view and to potentially return easily

I can ask for videos on the hand, the vendor is extremely responsive and helpful but should I also for something specific? Are you trying to see something specific (how it performs on the hand, if you can see the inclusions while on the hand etc.?)

Thank you again! Now I feel like I don't know what to do anymore

Hi! I love the ring you are considering! I don’t know a ton about OMC but wanted to ask if you can explain the difference with DG OMC vs the Giselle or what you would consider a true OMC. Thank you

 

[AL12]

Hi! I love the ring you are considering! I don’t know a ton about OMC but wanted to ask if you can explain the difference with DG OMC vs the Giselle or what you would consider a true OMC. Thank you

Hi @petrock<3 ! I am definitely not the expert but I do have a strong sense of what I do and do not like aesthetically so while I can't provide a technical breakdown e.g number of facets, type of culet etc, I will share with you how I visually see these older cuts

I've been looking at OMCs, OECs, antique cushions and DG antique ideal cuts for months and after some time you start to recognize the features pretty easily but of course there will still be variances within each cut. I will say it really will come down to YOUR personal taste as it is with all cuts, and my personal taste strong leans towards an OMC which is not too elongated.

Again my descriptions below are going to be very amateur layman's terms in a sense...there is no technical! I'm sure searching this forum or others can provide more technical info.

Antique cushions vs. OMC: This confused me the most in the beginning as at times vendors use these two terms interchangeably. From a visual perspective I see very clear differences between the two. Antique cushions generally have a wide/chubby maltese cross in the center and the facets on the edges (to me) appear to be a bit more elongated and angular despite giving off broad flashes of an antique cut. Sometimes they can look almost like scalene triangles? OMC (or the OMCs that I visually like e.g Giselle and this stone) tend to have more of a dainty pinwheel in the middle of the stone with more broken up facets all along the sides of the stone. The facets on the outside are smaller while still giving off broad flashes (in comparison to say an MRB which will have more splintery and scintillating flashes---hope I am using that term right). Some OMCs will also give you kozibe (another personal preference)...you can look this up as it's easier to see versus explain.

OMC versus DG OMC: The DG OMC is Rhino's newest cut and I was so sure at one point that I was going to purchase one while it was being released. While I'm sure that the light return and performance of the DG OMC is amazing, what I couldn't get past was the center faceting which had this very strong four 'pronged' pinwheel that was flashing on and off strongly with movement. It was almost like an OEC in a sense and for some reason (personally) gave off a very masculine vibe to the cut versus a soft romantic pillowy vibe that I really love. Take a hard look at the center of the diamond for the DG OMC center and Alex Park's Giselle and then expand your view outward and you should see what I mean.

Side note: all of DGs antique cuts are 'ideal" antique cuts which means that their inspiration comes from true antique cuts but have been optimized for the best light return and performance which at one point in time I thought was king... but I realized after time the actual aesthetics of the cut turned out to be more a bit more important for me personally (which is why I am here )

Hope this non-professional description somewhat helped and welcome to the world of OMCs! You will also likely find your personal taste in cut

 

[petrock<3]

Hi @petrock<3 ! I am definitely not the expert but I do have a strong sense of what I do and do not like aesthetically so while I can't provide a technical breakdown e.g number of facets, type of culet etc, I will share with you how I visually see these older cuts

I've been looking at OMCs, OECs, antique cushions and DG antique ideal cuts for months and after some time you start to recognize the features pretty easily but of course there will still be variances within each cut. I will say it really will come down to YOUR personal taste as it is with all cuts, and my personal taste strong leans towards an OMC which is not too elongated.

Again my descriptions below are going to be very amateur layman's terms in a sense...there is no technical! I'm sure searching this forum or others can provide more technical info.

Antique cushions vs. OMC: This confused me the most in the beginning as at times vendors use these two terms interchangeably. From a visual perspective I see very clear differences between the two. Antique cushions generally have a wide/chubby maltese cross in the center and the facets on the edges (to me) appear to be a bit more elongated and angular despite giving off broad flashes of an antique cut. Sometimes they can look almost like scalene triangles? OMC (or the OMCs that I visually like e.g Giselle and this stone) tend to have more of a dainty pinwheel in the middle of the stone with more broken up facets all along the sides of the stone. The facets on the outside are smaller while still giving off broad flashes (in comparison to say an MRB which will have more splintery and scintillating flashes---hope I am using that term right). Some OMCs will also give you kozibe (another personal preference)...you can look this up as it's easier to see versus explain.

OMC versus DG OMC: The DG OMC is Rhino's newest cut and I was so sure at one point that I was going to purchase one while it was being released. While I'm sure that the light return and performance of the DG OMC is amazing, what I couldn't get past was the center faceting which had this very strong four 'pronged' pinwheel that was flashing on and off strongly with movement. It was almost like an OEC in a sense and for some reason (personally) gave off a very masculine vibe to the cut versus a soft romantic pillowy vibe that I really love. Take a hard look at the center of the diamond for the DG OMC center and Alex Park's Giselle and then expand your view outward and you should see what I mean.

Side note: all of DGs antique cuts are 'ideal" antique cuts which means that their inspiration comes from true antique cuts but have been optimized for the best light return and performance which at one point in time I thought was king... but I realized after time the actual aesthetics of the cut turned out to be more a bit more important for me personally (which is why I am here )

Hope this non-professional description somewhat helped and welcome to the world of OMCs! You will also likely find your personal taste in cut

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain! Very helpful!! Yes I did notice the strong x on the DG OMC in the videos and photos. Wasn’t sure how noticeable in person it would be or if that was typical for this cut. I have been leaning strongly towards an AVC, which I have seen in person and love. But, it’s the Kozibe effect that I’ve realized I really really love. A culet with the kozibe is what has me enamored with Old Mine now.

Good luck with your search I will be following this OMC adventure of yours! So fun!

 

[oldcutclubmember]

Here are the photos of the side profile. It doesn’t look to be a super puffy crown as I’ve seen in other omcs but I am not an expert. This vendor (I really hope is legit) has been super communicative despite difference in time zone.

He states “ the thickness from the top of the stone to the bottom of the bezel is 6mm”

I have a video which I can post later. Just takes more time to post videos.

While it doesn’t have the super high puffy or chunky crown, it actually doesn’t look THAT shallow either! I have definitely seen many spreadier/shallower OMCs than this.

@AL12 I think you love what you see and I think you’ve fall in love with this stone. Go with your gut. I think you are going into this well informed, know that you are getting a stone with visible inclusions and you most likely won’t regret getting it. I do think you’ll regret it if you let this go and always ask “what if…”? The worst thing that can happen is that you end up with a fabulous right hand ring.

I wouldn’t want you to post on this thread in a few months!

Do you still dream about a piece of jewelry you didn't get...

One that you would have liked to purchase but for the circumstances at the time? I know we have discussed this topic in various forms but I am interested in hearing from new and old members alike. And if you could share photos of said piece that would be a treat.

www.pricescope.com

 

[maryjane04]

What about this one? Just for the centre at least.

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/art-deco-platinum-diamond-ring-728-c-7e3416f95b

 

[AL12]

While it doesn’t have the super high puffy or chunky crown, it actually doesn’t look THAT shallow either! I have definitely seen many spreadier/shallower OMCs than this.

@AL12 I think you love what you see and I think you’ve fall in love with this stone. Go with your gut. I think you are going into this well informed, know that you are getting a stone with visible inclusions and you most likely won’t regret getting it. I do think you’ll regret it if you let this go and always ask “what if…”? The worst thing that can happen is that you end up with a fabulous right hand ring.

I wouldn’t want you to post on this thread in a few months!

Do you still dream about a piece of jewelry you didn't get...

One that you would have liked to purchase but for the circumstances at the time? I know we have discussed this topic in various forms but I am interested in hearing from new and old members alike. And if you could share photos of said piece that would be a treat.

www.pricescope.com

Thanks @Muluver for riding with me through all my confusion!

My husband gets so upset that I ask for his opinion and then "I end up doing what I want". But I always tell him that his opinion on the matter helps me confirm what i really actually want or what is important to me. This post is kind of turning out like that.

Oh that thread , if I pass on this stone there is strong chance I will be posting there in the future!

 

[AL12]

What about this one? Just for the centre at least.

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/art-deco-platinum-diamond-ring-728-c-7e3416f95b

Eeek!!! Despite still feeling attached to my original find, this hits almost all my checks and is a huge center stone.... which makes me wonder...in your honest opinion, do you think this will go for below the estimate? (currently Est: $10,000 - $20,000)? With a GIA report, I imagine it would go even above the estimate unless there is something wrong with it that I can't see.

I never even looked over 2 ct ish for an earth-mined stone since it would just be so wildly out of my budget and this is 2.89!

I've never done auction before so unsure if this route can lead to amazing deals?

 

[lulu_ma]

OP have you seen many antique stones irl?

 

[AL12]

OP have you seen many antique stones irl?

Ah good question! Not “many” in real life as I’ve just gotten into them.

In one visit to a well known vendor here, I did try on OECs and OMCS and was surprised at how the OECs seemed to be flashier but I’ve always, always liked more square cuts versus rounds.

Do you think I should see more in real life before committing? Personally I don’t know anyone who owns an antique cut and I don’t have too much leisure time to visit multiple stores and also feel a bit guilty if I know I’m not seriously looking to buy a larger earth mined stone but asking the vendor to look at them (just a personal issue I have).

I’ve spent hours looking at photos and videos of antique cuts on the internet though, if that counts

 

[maryjane04]

Eeek!!! Despite still feeling attached to my original find, this hits almost all my checks and is a huge center stone.... which makes me wonder...in your honest opinion, do you think this will go for below the estimate? (currently Est: $10,000 - $20,000)? With a GIA report, I imagine it would go even above the estimate unless there is something wrong with it that I can't see.

I never even looked over 2 ct ish for an earth-mined stone since it would just be so wildly out of my budget and this is 2.89!

I've never done auction before so unsure if this route can lead to amazing deals?

I think even at 20k it would be a deal for a J colour hahaha. I don't have much experience with auctions - but know there is a buyer's premium I think usually 20% if not more. I think there definitely can be deals to be had but it is also pretty risky. I think you could ask the vendor for some photos/videos as well. I will definitely have my eyes on this ring to see how much it fetches.

@lulu_ma can tell you all about auctions

 

[junebug17]

Eeek!!! Despite still feeling attached to my original find, this hits almost all my checks and is a huge center stone.... which makes me wonder...in your honest opinion, do you think this will go for below the estimate? (currently Est: $10,000 - $20,000)? With a GIA report, I imagine it would go even above the estimate unless there is something wrong with it that I can't see.

I never even looked over 2 ct ish for an earth-mined stone since it would just be so wildly out of my budget and this is 2.89!

I've never done auction before so unsure if this route can lead to amazing deals?

It is a beautiful ring and the stone looks lovely...I just wanted to point out that the depth is 70% and the mm measurements are roughly 8.2, so this diamond won't face up as large as a 2.98 diamond, which should be closer to 9 mm. Not trying to be a downer but just wanted to point out that it's good to check the mm size, not just carat weight. A 8.2 mm diamond is still a very good size, so not trying to be discouraging.

eta - it will be interesting to see what this ring goes for - going by what I've been seeing with retail vendors, 20,000 would be a good price due to the J color.

 

[AL12]

I think even at 20k it would be a deal for a J colour hahaha. I don't have much experience with auctions - but know there is a buyer's premium I think usually 20% if not more. I think there definitely can be deals to be had but it is also pretty risky. I think you could ask the vendor for some photos/videos as well. I will definitely have my eyes on this ring to see how much it fetches.

@lulu_ma can tell you all about auctions

Haha, yes confirmation that this is definitely out of my budget at our guesstimate that 20K would be a "deal". I also think this is why I can't let go of the original stone due it being heavily discounted due to flaws. Thank you @maryjane04 for the find!

I am interested to listen to any other input @lulu_ma may have

Also, at the risk of being pushy I am also interested to see if @elizat has an opinions to offer as well before I make my final decision. I know that in all my research in PS, her name came up often when dealing with antique cushions (I think more in regards to antique cushions vs. OMC if I recall correctly, but I am still curious to see her take).

 

[LightBright]

AL12, can you let us know your budget and diamond parameters? for example, color range, diameter size (see Junebug17’s post above- because carat weight does not necessarily translate to bigger spread, on the contrary it often translates to deeper depth), do you want certain characteristics like a puffy crown, what’s your ultimate dream ring (photos).

I do think you need to try on various cuts, look at them on your hand, evaluate them in different light, to be able to know what you actually want.

If you have photos of diamond cuts you like, post here. In my experience, looking at antique diamonds, there is no one prototype even within a category like OMC. With OMCs I don’t think they even had cutting houses (but I don’t really know). My idea of an OMC is a cut close to the shape of a certain crystal, so light return isn’t as good as an OEC, but crown height and depth are higher/deeper so OMCs have more dimensionality (which I love). Some OMCs are round, some are square, etc.

The luxury of finding what you want and being able to purchase it within your budget may be difficult to impossible and will take time. What you have in your mind -specifically- might never happen because there is a lot of competition for antique diamonds. I have found all of my antique diamonds accidentally before too many people were looking for them. This doesn’t mean you should settle for a less than ideal diamond. It might mean you have to have discipline and restraint to follow your own parameters until you find something. So I recommend first knowing exactly what you like and want before you buy. (I recommend trying on antique cuts too.)

I haven‘t heard if you like puffy crowns, but since you like square OMC cuts, I wonder if you would like a modern Peruzzi cut - there’s a vendor called Sin City Finds on Instagram, who just posted a modern Peruzzi cut I think it was MMD. You might want to check in with that vendor to see if there’s a modern source for OMCs as well, in MMD. In any case, I wanted to point you there so you could see another modern antique cut option that is square.

 

[LightBright]

My thought on this first diamond that you have found is that it seems to be antique cut (due to style, due to facet junction wear, due to razor thin in some places/ irregular girdle). I think this might be a real antique in a more recent setting, but I do not know. i think it is plausibly H, but no way to tell.

Perhaps you need to ask someone here about the inclusions they see. I am not qualified. But it looks like it has graining as well. I can’t assess transparency.

I know this is another ask, but….Can the vendor take several close up photos of the diamond (not of the inclusions) so we can see top down, close up of the entire stone edge to edge? The whole diamond top down, so you can see close up of facet pattern. Close up photos showing the whole stone‘s faceting will show how transparent it looks (eg how crisp the facets look through the diamond material) which will translate to light return, in addition to showing how obvious the inclusions look. If you can get that, it would be helpful.

I think the cut of this stone is good. But will it be overshowdowed by the inclusions or will it hold its own.

 

[oldcutclubmember]

@LightBright makes some good suggestions.

@AL12 what is your budget? I know you are trying to get the max face up dimensions and want to stay at J/K at the lowest. I ask because your desired color range for a true antique earth mined diamond is going to be very hard to find and expensive. What is the minimum face up dimensions that you want? What is your budget for the stone and what is your budget for the setting (including side stones)?

From your prior posts, I think this is the look you want, right?

18 kt Yellow Gold Three Diamond Engagement Ring

The Marielle 1.25 ring is an absolutely gorgeous 18 kt Yellow Gold Three Diamond Engagement Ring. Shop this exclusive ring now at Victor Barbone Jewelry.

www.victorbarbone.com

The center on that ring is 1.25 ct at 6.17x6.07x4.42, has a chunky crown and the ring still has GREAT finger coverage. Would you be happy with this kind of finger coverage or are you looking for something bigger?

 

[AL12]

Hi all!

@junebug17 thanks for additional insight on the auction piece!

@LightBright and @Muluver : I can definitely list out my budget and what I my specifications are! But before I get into that, I think I do want to re-state from my original post that I had decided to go MMD since the beginning of my upgrade search due to budget. I think I am realistic about my budget, or at least I think I am (?), and what I want....which is why I haven't seriously considered the two auction pieces above. It's only due to not seeing any MMD cut to my liking that I started to dabble back into earth-mined and therefore lowered my desired ct size for the center to keep myself within budget (and even then I knew I would be compromising finger coverage and stretching budget if I went the earth-mined route). Maybe part of my fixation on the original stone is due to the fact that it may be my best chance at being within budget for an earth-mined for a stone that seems to hit all the boxes I want at the compromise of having visible inclusions. So my budget remains almost the same...whether MMD or earth-mined, but what I think I can get within that budget will vary based on if I got MMD or earth-mined based on the prices i'm seeing for these stones.

Since this is my upgrade and I am looking at old cuts, I think I am more focused on the overall look of the ring and size versus being as fixated on grading per say.

Budget: ~$10k is the top of my budget for a trilogy ring and will need to include all three stones and a new custom yellow gold setting (not a fancy setting but will need to be custom nonetheless since I will likely get the stones loose). Yes! @Muluver the Victor Barbone you linked is 100% my inspiration ring but I've looked at all the pricing for the Marielle's and they are out of budget. It *would* be the photo I send to whoever I choose to make the setting.

Color: No lower than J, will consider K or lower if confirmed to face up white

Clarity: Flexible (as you can see), again not as fixated on the grading versus how it looks visually

Size:
IF MDD: as close to 2ct in terms of face up size (I do believe these will sell in the $5k-$7k range)
IF EARTH: realistically i'm looking at 1.4-1.6 ct... maybe a spready 1.2-1.3ct---very similar to the first ones that the klrrr posted! (and I think @Muluver kind of mentioned before that there would be potential for me to feel unsatisfied with a smaller center). I expect these to sell in the $6k to $10k range.

Looks: I don't absolutely need kozibe or puffy crown though they are nice to have. I think the stone I found, Giselle and this other one from Alex Park strike me as very, very pretty. You all know that it's hard to really break down what your preference is...but i think some of the people here might have a sense especially with my reply to petrock above!

Alex Park on Instagram: "Sold* Perfect OMC!! #oldminecut #antiquecushion #antiquediamonds #antiquediamond #alexpark #uniquediamonds #hardtofind"

935 likes, 39 comments - parksfinegroupinc on April 18, 2022: "Sold* Perfect OMC!! #oldminecut #antiquecushion #antiquediamonds #antiquediamond #alexpark #uniquediamonds #hardtofind".

www.instagram.com

I think basically if I pass on this stone, I will wait for Alex Park to release his Giselle labs (of course I can still look around for fun until they are released!) versus settling on a smaller earth-mined center. If Parks group lab OMCs still are not visually to my liking, I'll move back to seriously looking at smaller ct size earth-mined.

Hope this helps more with my thought process!

@LightBright I looked at the peruzzi! It's pretty but I didn't see that it was lab, rather a new antique cut. Also I read that peruzzis are even HARDER to find than OMCs so I haven't looked into them closely. You're correct, visually I am more drawn to peruzzis (or Jubilees) personally than say an MRB, but my heart keeps going back to OMCs

 

[lulu_ma]

Ah good question! Not “many” in real life as I’ve just gotten into them.

In one visit to a well known vendor here, I did try on OECs and OMCS and was surprised at how the OECs seemed to be flashier but I’ve always, always liked more square cuts versus rounds.

Do you think I should see more in real life before committing? Personally I don’t know anyone who owns an antique cut and I don’t have too much leisure time to visit multiple stores and also feel a bit guilty if I know I’m not seriously looking to buy a larger earth mined stone but asking the vendor to look at them (just a personal issue I have).

I’ve spent hours looking at photos and videos of antique cuts on the internet though, if that counts

I think you should definitely see more antique cuts irl if possible. My ering is an F color and I used to consider myself very color sensitive until discovering old cuts.

When I started looking last year, I didn't want to go below a GIA J/K/L. I had seen E, G, I, and J color old cuts and the colorless ones didn't throw as much rainbow fire imho. Once I expanded my search to M, I got lucky (the stone in my avatar is an M color). Recently, I have been able to see some larger GIA N and OP colors and I was actually fine with the face ups. It really doesn't hurt to look to train your eyes-and you never know what you may find!

RE: what Mary Jane said, I have had some luck with auctions. You have to factor in the Buyers Premium which is generally 25-30% mark up and sales tax.

I do have a lead on a 4 ctw OMC Three Stone which is a bit over your budget. I actually believe that it is a preowned Marielle...I think it is 35-40% off it's original price.