shape
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OMC of my discounted dreams? Opinions needed!

AL12

Shiny_Rock
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Nov 12, 2013
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382
Hi all,

This will be a long post and I'm nervous to hear the feedback on this stone because maybe after months of searching I am really hoping this is the one. But of course I would be amiss to not take in the expert advice from this group.

Background: After coming back to PS for my ~10 year e-ring upgrade, I fell madly in love with OMCs and I cannot get out. Due to budget concerns, I was completely set on buying a lab-grown diamond but unfortunately (and I want to say I've looked at every single potential vendor you can throw at me), the cutting of lab OMCs are not yet on par with the faceting structure that I am looking for. I am mainly seeing cuts that mostly resemble antique cushions which I strongly considered but knew deep down it wouldn't satisfy my OMC itch. I've been hunting for about 7 months now, constantly refreshing what lab grown vendors and doing and lurking around antique sites.

Most recently, I decided that look of a true OMC was most important to me so due to budget I settled on going back to earthed-diamonds but lowered my preferred carat size to around the 1.4-1.6ct mark (and even then that would have stretched out my budget for the stone alone). My end goal is a trilogy ring and I still need room to purchase side stones and setting.

I stumbled upon this stone from an unknown antique vendor based in Belgium (if this is a reputable seller, their items are definitely worth a look!) which completely exceeded my ct size expectations for an earth mined diamond and at a price (pre customs and PP fees) that just looks amazing to me. Even now I am nervous to post this and will try to leave out some details since the stone still looks to be accessible on the vendor site ***LURKERS DO NOT SNATCH THIS STONE FROM ME UNTIL I HAVE MADE MY DECISION. THE VENDOR HAS ALREADY PLACED THIS ON HOLD FOR ME FOR ABOUT A WEEK AND YOUR PURCHASE WILL BE DECLINED***

Pros:
Estimated to be about 2ct (this was my initial desired ct size for lab grown before I gave up and dimensions were provided to me via caliper measurement and it looks to align)
Estimated high color grade (I was not looking for a very warm stone unless it faced up more white)
Interaction with vendor very professional with no red flags as of yet
Comes with this amazing setting and fun rose cut stones (true antique lovers please don't come at me if I dismantle this stone!)

Cons:
Little known PS vendor, trying to still confirm if I can confirm they are legit
Not graded, the stone specs are purely being estimated by the vendor (estimated +/-2ct size and estimated F-G in color and I1 in clarity)
International purchase and unable to see the stone in purchase/returns would be difficult
----and the KICKER (covers face)....this is estimated to be an I1 due to several black inclusions in the center.

I know being I1 is so taboo in the PS world but it is crazy that I still think I really want it and am okay with it? The price is unreal and this is my upgrade, I likely may not upgrade this ring again (hah) as my next upgrade would probably be a wedding band to stack. Basically, I am not concerned about re-sale value at this price. The vendor has been amazing at being upfront about the inclusions immediately and attributed the low price to the inclusions and in the requested videos I could tell he was not trying to hide away the inclusions at all. In his words "You can easily see the inclusions with a 10x magnifying glass but 'hardly' with the naked eye. The stone is alive with a beautiful effect". I can definitely see them in the videos and while I don't love it, from a big picture perspective I really think I can justify them for the discounted cost.

Ohh...yes, the cost is about $5185 USD.

Here are the photos and videos without further ado:
IMG_3016.jpg




 
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kgizo

Ideal_Rock
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I can see why it appeals to you as the shape is very pretty. I think those inclusions would be visible IRL. “Eye clean” means different things to different people, is the vendor thinking eye clean at 12”? If its going to be a ring you will be looking at the diamond close up and is that acceptable to you?
 

YadaYadaYada

Super_Ideal_Rock
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About the clarity, I1 is the vendor’s opinion and without a report you have no way of knowing how accurate (or honest because they are biased as a seller) that is.

This and the fact that a return would be problematic would be a no from me. It is a pretty ring but if those inclusions are as apparent in person, you may be too distracted by them to enjoy the diamond as much as you should.
 

AL12

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
382
I can see why it appeals to you as the shape is very pretty. I think those inclusions would be visible IRL. “Eye clean” means different things to different people, is the vendor thinking eye clean at 12”? If its going to be a ring you will be looking at the diamond close up and is that acceptable to you?

Yes, the shape/faceting is what I am looking for in an OMC. In the vendors defense, his exact words about the inclusions were “hardly” seen with the naked eye. So I take that to mean, yes you can see it but it may not be an issue (depending on the consumer). Right now… I’m thinking that at the price offered, I just might be okay with it…to me even a slightly better clarity stone near this size would easily be $10-15k more based on what I’ve seen?
 

AL12

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
382
About the clarity, I1 is the vendor’s opinion and without a report you have no way of knowing how accurate (or honest because they are biased as a seller) that is.

This and the fact that a return would be problematic would be a no from me. It is a pretty ring but if those inclusions are as apparent in person, you may be too distracted by them to enjoy the diamond as much as you should.

Thank you @YadaYadaYada ! I weigh your opinion heavily since I have read many of your posts.

Agree that with no true grading, it could truly be worse than what’s estimated. But with old stones I do feel like I keep hearing to move away from grading and focus more on how it looks in really life. That being said, those are inclusions are definitely real and visible.

Your last thought will need to be my major deciding factor… basically if the great price will give me enough joy to overlook the inclusions in the long-term.
 
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AL12

Shiny_Rock
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382
Have you looked at/contacted Alex Park at ParksFineGroupInc through Instagram? He had some nice OMC lab stones this week.

Hi @DAF ! I have been “stalking” his Instagram since he mentioned omc labs were coming months ago. Pestered him on eta and if I could place it on hold or even order customs cut etc etc.

His last stones from last/this week were very pretty but again the faceting reminded me more of an antique cushion versus the type of omc shape I really am desiring. So I decided to pass. Part of me feels like lab cutters are getting really close to achieving the “true” OMC look and maybe I need to be patient but I’m always looking while waiting and happened to find this one :)
 

klrrrr

Shiny_Rock
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419
I absolutely love the shape of this stone.

I own an old miner with a similar facet pattern, and I do want to flag that those inclusions are likely to be quite noticeable given the way it's cut.
 

AL12

Shiny_Rock
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Nov 12, 2013
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I absolutely love the shape of this stone.

I own an old miner with a similar facet pattern, and I do want to flag that those inclusions are likely to be quite noticeable given the way it's cut.

Thanks for your input! I love the shape too :kiss2: the inclusions…not so much. The price… amazing haha

Will hunt for your old posts to see if I can get a glimpse of your old miner and drool over it!
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
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Yeah, I agree the shape of the OMC is really delightful, but the inclusions are smack in the table and most likely readily eye-visible, and based on inclusion location may even mirror/reflect around in the stone depending on lighting/enviroment/hand movement.

If returns are problematic and if you are desirous of an eyeclean OMC, I'd recommend you keep looking.

Keep in mind, if the inclusions really were negligible, then vendor would not classify at I1 and would not price it so low.
 

klrrrr

Shiny_Rock
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Thanks for your input! I love the shape too :kiss2: the inclusions…not so much. The price… amazing haha

Will hunt for your old posts to see if I can get a glimpse of your old miner and drool over it!

I haven't posted it yet!! This is a good reminder to get on it :)
 

kgizo

Ideal_Rock
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Totally understandable that the price is attractive since it’s at the low end of your budget. You’ve mentioned getting side stones. And, because of they aren’t standard MRB sizes you will likely need a custom setting. So if this stone is $5K, and sidestones are $3K and a setting is $2K you get to a $10K ring pretty quickly. Will you be happy with a $10K ring with a center stone that you feel like you settled on? And because I’m an enabler, since you are open to MMD and feel attached to this stone is will it scratch the itch for now and if it bothers you later would you swap it with a MMD and do a pendant with this (less likely to be looking at it so close up)?
 

AL12

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
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Yeah, I agree the shape of the OMC is really delightful, but the inclusions are smack in the table and most likely readily eye-visible, and based on inclusion location may even mirror/reflect around in the stone depending on lighting/enviroment/hand movement.

If returns are problematic and if you are desirous of an eyeclean OMC, I'd recommend you keep looking.

Keep in mind, if the inclusions really were negligible, then vendor would not classify at I1 and would not price it so low.

Thank you! Great points to consider.

Main take-away from this for me is... am I really desirous of an eyeclean OMC? Generally my answer would be yes, but if it meant getting a steep discount due to the flaws....then I'm not too sure what my answer is anymore!
 

AL12

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
382
A few options I've stumbled across:

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1198388490/antique-solitaire-diamond?click_key=8a02f28be267f288b778948d926df8f4bb17cad6:1198388490&click_sum=4664e86e&ref=user_profile&frs=1



Thanks so much for these finds! These are the type of stones (size and price range) I have definitely been looking at as of late due to not finding a lab grown faceting that matches what I want.

The first stone (on hold anyway) is pretty and has OMC "vibes" but the faceting seems to lean a bit toward antique cushion in my opinion?

The second stone also seems to be classified as an I1? But of course it has a true I1 grading compared to just an estimate given for the stone I found.

Will come back to these for sure if I truly decide to part ways with this included stone.

And yes, please post post post your OMC! :appl:
 

AL12

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
382
Totally understandable that the price is attractive since it’s at the low end of your budget. You’ve mentioned getting side stones. And, because of they aren’t standard MRB sizes you will likely need a custom setting. So if this stone is $5K, and sidestones are $3K and a setting is $2K you get to a $10K ring pretty quickly. Will you be happy with a $10K ring with a center stone that you feel like you settled on? And because I’m an enabler, since you are open to MMD and feel attached to this stone is will it scratch the itch for now and if it bothers you later would you swap it with a MMD and do a pendant with this (less likely to be looking at it so close up)?

Thank you and enable away! :appl:

Thank you for taking all my info above and doing this deep dive analysis. I am here for it!

Yes....your breakdown looks to be pretty accurate. So, will I be happy with a 10K ring I settled on? If the center stone was a 2ct OMC, the answer just might be yes since there is no possible way I could afford a greatly cut earth-mined 2ct OMC at the numbers we're throwing out. And wow, yes I thought after this upgrade I should be "done" but you're right, if MMD cutting of OMCs catches up to what I am aesthetically looking for then I could consider replacing it in the future and re-purposing this "flawed stone". I know there are a lot of purists in this forum and also a lot of anti-MMD, but I feel like I am pretty accepting as long as I didn't overpay and the stone gives me that happy feeling.

Although no one asked, this is my inspiration ring in terms of look and ratio of center to side stones (only looking for it to be yellow gold):

https://www.victorbarbone.com/produ...e-engagement-ring?_pos=1&_sid=51072ae4f&_ss=r


I missed this one from OWD, and it was actually this post that made me realized that maybe I don't need close to a 2ct center stone to achieve what I want (if going earth-mined route):

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbqubE-j_nC/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
 

oldcutclubmember

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
1,142
Hi @DAF ! I have been “stalking” his Instagram since he mentioned omc labs were coming months ago. Pestered him on eta and if I could place it on hold or even order customs cut etc etc.

His last stones from last/this week were very pretty but again the faceting reminded me more of an antique cushion versus the type of omc shape I really am desiring. So I decided to pass. Part of me feels like lab cutters are getting really close to achieving the “true” OMC look and maybe I need to be patient but I’m always looking while waiting and happened to find this one :)

I am pretty certain that he will be cutting some lab OMCs that are true to the OMC faceting in the near future. It’ll probably be a few months but may be worth the wait.

I totally know what you mean since I prefer the OMC faceting to the antique cushion look as well.
 
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AL12

Shiny_Rock
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I am pretty certain that he will be cutting some lab OMCs that are true to the OMC faceting in the near future. It’ll probably be a few months but may be worth the wait.

I totally know what you mean since I prefer the OMC faceting to the antique cushion look as well.

Hi @Muluver ! Thanks for understanding my preference in faceting!

Can I ask why you think he may be cutting labs truer to an OMC? Was it a discussion with him or just based on his various posts showing OMCs he is wanted to emulate for labs?

I waited months for his lab omcs to release, there was about a 1.5ct that he released maybe 1-2 months ago that seemed promising but still not that real OMC look that I love and I was wanting closer to 2ct (if lab). Then after his most recent set I got discouraged that maybe the omc faceting would not be attainable for lab (?) and started considering earth-mined much more seriously…
 

oldcutclubmember

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
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Hi @Muluver ! Thanks for understanding my preference in faceting!

Can I ask why you think he may be cutting labs truer to an OMC? Was it a discussion with him or just based on his various posts showing OMCs he is wanted to emulate for labs?

I waited months for his lab omcs to release, there was about a 1.5ct that he released maybe 1-2 months ago that seemed promising but still not that real OMC look that I love and I was wanting closer to 2ct (if lab). Then after his most recent set I got discouraged that maybe the omc faceting would not be attainable for lab (?) and started considering earth-mined much more seriously…

He told me that he got a Sarin report on Gisele to model lab diamonds after her. So if you like the faceting and cutting/look of Gisele, I would wait!

 

AL12

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
382
He told me that he got a Sarin report on Gisele to model lab diamonds after her. So if you like the faceting and cutting/look of Gisele, I would wait!


Augh I love Gisele! Yes I saw this when he posted but then his lab OMCs looked nothing like Gisele. Haha thanks for the information that it might still be a work in progress…This actually is definitely swaying me in the other direction (to not buy)
 

oldcutclubmember

Brilliant_Rock
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Augh I love Gisele! Yes I saw this when he posted but then his lab OMCs looked nothing like Gisele. Haha thanks for the information that it might still be a work in progress…This actually is definitely swaying me in the other direction (to not buy)
He got her Sarin scanned 5-7 days ago so it’s in the early stages but it’s definitely in the works!!
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
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Nov 21, 2013
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I don't have any diamonds to add. But I just wanted to say that if this is your last upgrade then I think you should find something eye clean and mind clean. I would be bothered by those inclusions and I don't even have eyes like a hawk. If you like that 3 stone from Old World diamonds then I'm sure Adam can make you something within your budget but I feel like it wouldn't satisfy your itch to get to that 2ct mark. I really hope to see some of Alex's mmd which are modelled off Giselle. I too don't prefer antique cushions so good luck and can't wait to see what you come back with! We will keep our eyes out for you.
 

Mreader

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I don’t have much to add because everybody else has made excellent points but I’m just curious – is that price for the entire ring? Because I really love the ring as a whole!
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
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1,625
Is the ring a true antique? I would say that if you will keep the ring intact, the price is good. But to reset the stone, it will cost a thousand ++ more.

Real antique Old Mine cuts in that size and high color (not confirmed) are really not found, I’ve never seen one.

Every high color OMC found in that size will involve compromises. The vendor can’t sell it for a recut with those inclusions. And depth limits diameter so not worth recut for that reason also.

But he can sell to someone who wants it for the cut. Please be aware that the price is counterbalanced with rarity, cut, color, clarity and size/diameter. Clarity is what is pulling this diamond’s price down. Color has yet to be verified. Not possible to tell until you see it. If you can return the ring, I would try to see in person.

I’d say, if you want a genuine antique in high color this will be a rare chance (if vendor is telling the truth). It will have visible inclusions, which don’t bother me, but might bother you.
The other option for that price range in high color is Distinctive Gem August Vintage Cushion MMD. That would be an astoundingly beautiful option but not sure about pricing. Parks Fine is also a good option.

To be honest, I like what you've found. It could be a reproduction. I wonder if someone can tell if the rose cuts are antique. The centerstone looks authentic antique cut. To me, this is a nice ring for a good price. And I love the cut of the OMC.
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
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Can vendor send more videos on a hand?
 

AL12

Shiny_Rock
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I don't have any diamonds to add. But I just wanted to say that if this is your last upgrade then I think you should find something eye clean and mind clean. I would be bothered by those inclusions and I don't even have eyes like a hawk. If you like that 3 stone from Old World diamonds then I'm sure Adam can make you something within your budget but I feel like it wouldn't satisfy your itch to get to that 2ct mark. I really hope to see some of Alex's mmd which are modelled off Giselle. I too don't prefer antique cushions so good luck and can't wait to see what you come back with! We will keep our eyes out for you.

Thank you for replying and just giving your input in general. I think in my mind (especially with @Muluver confirming that Gisele labs are definitely in the works), I know I should probably let this one go and be patient and keep waiting to see how Alex's labs turn out.

I've really fallen in love with the stone though inclusions and all so having a hard time giving it up although I know I should.

I do think you are right about a smaller center stone not scratching the itch too. When I saw Adam's OWD trilogy and the price, I felt as if that was the direction I would need to go as I was not making much progress with my project, but I knew the center was a definitely smaller than I wanted and the color stone for his trilogy was warmer than I felt comfortable with as well. Basically I knew I would still be compromising some way or another to get close to what I wanted within budget.

Thanks for the well wishes and feel free to tag me anytime with any finds! Although realistic about what I can get on my budget, I can be particular/picky about weird things... so my warning has been given!

When Alex comes out with his Giselle dups we can freak out together with @Muluver :D
 

AL12

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
382
I don’t have much to add because everybody else has made excellent points but I’m just curious – is that price for the entire ring? Because I really love the ring as a whole!

Yes, the ENTIRE ring. Amazing right? I still haven't figured out how to calculate custom fees from Belgium though and still cannot vouch 100% for the vendor since people on PS do not seem to be familiar with the vendor (he has other amazing pieces on his website also).

I honestly would feel bad if I dismantled the ring, I am not at a lifestyle where I can collect antiques yet since I'm just trying to establish my wedding set...but I really love this and I've been really loving rose cuts these days. I had maybe hoped that I could sell the settings and/or side stones to funnel back into my upgrade. Either that or repurpose the rose cuts for something fun.

I digress...if I pass on this set, I definitely want a PS-er to get it if they are okay with inclusions. Was going to post on "Someone's gotta buy this piece" thread :D
 
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AL12

Shiny_Rock
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Nov 12, 2013
Messages
382
Is the ring a true antique? I would say that if you will keep the ring intact, the price is good. But to reset the stone, it will cost a thousand ++ more.

Real antique Old Mine cuts in that size and high color (not confirmed) are really not found, I’ve never seen one.

Every high color OMC found in that size will involve compromises. The vendor can’t sell it for a recut with those inclusions. And depth limits diameter so not worth recut for that reason also.

But he can sell to someone who wants it for the cut. Please be aware that the price is counterbalanced with rarity, cut, color, clarity and size/diameter. Clarity is what is pulling this diamond’s price down. Color has yet to be verified. Not possible to tell until you see it. If you can return the ring, I would try to see in person.

I’d say, if you want a genuine antique in high color this will be a rare chance (if vendor is telling the truth). It will have visible inclusions, which don’t bother me, but might bother you.
The other option for that price range in high color is Distinctive Gem August Vintage Cushion MMD. That would be an astoundingly beautiful option but not sure about pricing. Parks Fine is also a good option.

To be honest, I like what you've found. It could be a reproduction. I wonder if someone can tell if the rose cuts are antique. The centerstone looks authentic antique cut. To me, this is a nice ring for a good price. And I love the cut of the OMC.

Thank you for this!!! So much info and honestly now I'm swaying back and forth. I'm sorry everyone I am indecisive in nature about pieces that will cost me in the thousand of dollar range. Let me try to hit all the info/questions you provided.

Per the website and discussion the ring is circa 1890 - 1900, and there are some chips on the rose cuts too and the rose cuts are a bit wonky shaped which is why yes, the ring is so "affordable". Besides guilt at dismantling the ring, I am okay with the extra cost to re-set because as I mentioned, to get a better clarity stone of this size would easily cost me 10-15K more if even that. I still feel as if this route would be my most budget friendly option.

Color: Yes , it's definitely possible that it's a bit warmer as the stone has not been graded and all are estimates. But based on the photos and videos given to me, the stone is showing up white enough to my untrained eye without glaring yellow/brown/champagne hues that would throw me off.

Inclusions: I don't know if you can answer this black and white, but can you explain a bit more why the inclusions would not bother you? I'm really am trying to figure out....if it will bother me. Of course if I had a choice I would not like them to be there, but I am a realist that at my budget, I will have to compromise somewhere and for some reason the inclusions were not an immediate deal breaker. I think it had enough going for it at a very attractive price point. He also sent me some close up photos of the inclusions but I haven't posted them since I do think they are visible in the photos and videos anyway.

DG AVC: I exchanged some emails with Rhino. He is awesome/amazing, cannot rave enough about his customer service. I was 90% going to pull the trigger with a lab AVC and then his new lab AVOMC but after staring after photos and videos for days, it just didn't have that true OMC faceting that I loved and I couldn't follow through. His lab AVOMC is in the back of my mind for potential side stones however if the three stones complement each other.

Returns: If I purchase, I want to be as confident as possible to the point where returning is not even on my radar unless it turns out to be something totally wrong. Doing an international return sounds like a huge headache and stressful process to me? If this was a US buy, I would have bought the ring to view and to potentially return easily :)

I can ask for videos on the hand, the vendor is extremely responsive and helpful but should I also for something specific? Are you trying to see something specific (how it performs on the hand, if you can see the inclusions while on the hand etc.?)

Thank you again! Now I feel like I don't know what to do anymore :D
 

DutchJackie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2021
Messages
77
Pretty stone. Pretty ring :kiss2: Amsterdam (NL) and Antwerp (B) are old diamond trade centers, so I would think such a find is legit. Only the headache of an international transaction would give me some reservations
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
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Hi AL12. I am not the typical Pricescoper. I am okay with inclusions on real true antique stones because I have to be. I prefer antique cuts (which are unmatchable) to modern cuts. I HAVE seen some modern cuts lately that look very much like antique cuts but no Old Mine Cuts that look right to me.

I also have recently gotten interested in colored stones, where color is king. When you buy a colored stone you look at color on the hand, and then accept certain inclusions as part of the necessary package (Unless you have an unlimited budget).

I’m older, and my eyesight isn‘t as good, so I see mostly the color and light return (cut) of my stones not the inclusions. So if inclusions are what I have to accept to get a much whiter than normal antique stone, I seriously consider accepting them. IF they are NOT too abundant… Cut has to be really good to accept obvious inclusions.

On the other hand, this is your lifetime set. So this may not be the time to be settling on a diamond with obvious inclusions. I can’t really tell the extent of them - can you please post close up photos of the inclusions?

I wanted to see the ring on the hand so I could try to gauge stone color more. I can’t tell if the stone looks whiter because of inclusions, haziness, or actual whiteness. Close up photos would be great, no need to ask for more, post the photos you currently have.

I‘m thinking that you might not be happy with an included stone in a trilogy ring with two other non-included ideal cut diamonds. If you are thinking you might use modern antique cut side stones (Distinctive Gem) those side stones will likely have different light return, meaning they will outperform an antique! You might be best served by commissioning a “complete” modern antique cut MMD trilogy from Distinctive Gem? Or trying to do a trilogy with Alex Park.

To me, this antique OMC diamond makes sense in the context of a historical package (period setting, old rose cuts etc.) but maybe not as part of a perfect lifetime wedding set. I have also had the issue of finding a center antique diamond but have not liked the setting and I’ve stalled trying to find side stones or a new setting. It’s a process.
 
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