Please help me choose between these Asschers asap!

[Californiadreaming]

Hi all

Some of you kind Pricescopers helped me recently when I asked about buying a good sized, good looking 1 carat Asscher for approx $4000 (I'm in London and have to factor in $1000+ in duty taxes). Colour F or above as that's my preference.

I have been speaking with Good Old Gold and they have sent me links to three stones. They recommend the .90ct, saying it's more brilliant and not that much smaller than the 1carat. They suggest ruling out the middle stone, the 1carat F. They say the E is great too but might show a bit of darkness.

I am also including a Youtube video of the three stones left to right and a link to a James Allen stone that Niel picked out the other day - and thinks is eye clean despite the clarity. I don't have the asset - I can ask for one if you guys think it's a beauty? It is slightly more than I want to pay.

I really need your help, as I'm such a novice at this.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/0.9ct-f-vs2-asscher-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1ct-f-vs2-asscher-diamond.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1ct-e-vs2-asscher-diamond.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVu7YTlZdGg

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.04-carat-f-color-si2-clarity-sku-523981

Thank you in advance!

 

[UrsTx]

I'm not an asscher expect at all but here's my two cents.

If you can make the JA price work, I'd say it's worth contacting them for an ASET. If anything, it will put your mind at ease that it isn't the one or is the one.

As far as GOG, I also like that .9 ct the best. I think it's very close in mm size to the 1 ct, it appears to reflect light better in the video, and GOG gives good honest advice. And a VS2 is a plus since step cuts are less forgiving regarding inclusions.

 

[Californiadreaming]

Hey thanks for your opinion. I think I am erring on the side of the .90 too and yes GOG seem to be very reliable in their guidance.

Would love to hear other opinions too.

 

[ecf8503]

I would absolutely ask JA for an ASET and gemologist's opinion on their stone though - no harm in asking. They may not even be able to do it if the stone isn't accessible. But I'd still ask.

The 0.9ct GOG is beautiful though - if JA falls through I'd definitely take that!

 

[Californiadreaming]

Thanks ecf!

I have just requested three asset images from James Allen.

In the meantime, I would still definitely like thoughts on the GOG ones.

 

[Niel]

The .9 appears to be the best of the video. I still like the si2 but I wouldn't buy that if its our of budget for you

 

[marymm]

Honestly in your situation I'd go for the GOG .90 F-VS2 - it looks to be a beauty and you have the video, the photo, the Aset, the DiamXray, and the Sarin which all back up the performance of the stone - although I suggest you clarify with GOG in writing whether this stone qualifies for GOG's Lifetime Trade Up and Buy Back options (even if you don't at this time anticipate using either option in the future, the trade-up and buy-back policies are excellent benefits to have available to you since no one can predict the future). Plus, the diamond is definitely eyeclean and within budget.

The JA SI2 stone I fear would not be eye-clean - it has multiple feathers (cracks) which are located in all four corners basically, as well as two crystals which appear to be located near the top of the stone at two outside edges of the table - plus, with the mirror-like way an Asscher is cut and performs, depending on actual location in the stone, some/all of the inclusions may actually reflect to appear in other areas to the stone. I know the video is magnified but in real life I would expect at least one corner's feathers and one of the crystals would be easily eye-visible to you from most perspectives, if not all of them - and based on the video, at least one of the crystals does reflect to appear in a second location. Plus, this stone is over-budget.

If you were in the US and could easily buy/return diamonds, the JA stone might be worthwhile to look at, but you are in the UK and returning would be difficult and expensive. To my way of calculating, an over-budget, likely not eye-clean JA diamond which would have be returned, versus a very slightly smaller, within budget, eyeclean GOG diamond with all the back-up data to support the quality of the cut and performance... my vote goes to the 0.90ct F-VS2 asscher

 

[Californiadreaming]

Thanks so much for your replies. Great to hear the .90 is seen as a strong option

 

[tyty333]

I liked the first stone in the video the best. I assume that's the .9.

 

[Yimmers]

I can see the inclusions just in the general photo of the James Allen diamond. Therefore, I wouldn't go with the SI2 with the Asscher. The 0.9 F shows the most fire in the GOG video and I can't tell the size difference among the three. It's worth it to me to have a mind clean stone with a lot of sparkle.

 

[Coralfish]

Hi California

Sorry I never came back on your other thread.

I'm going to be totally honest because that's what the forum is for. I am worried about the large table of the 0.90. It's hard to explain why without seeing asschers in person, but I had an asscher that was beautifully cut and performed very nicely but had a huge table, and it bothered me a lot. Something is different re. fire to your eye, from the crown facets vs light reflected from under the table. I am inexpert enough to not know quite how to describe it. If you see one with a small table you will see the difference. This may well be a matter of taste but I want you to have as much information as I can give you. Indeed perhaps there are some that prefer a larger table and I want you to think about what your own preferences might be.

Also I do not like how it performs near the window. It looks leaky under the table to me, which looks more innocuous in the video when all three are on the tray than the contrastyness seen in diamonds 2 and 3, because possibly what you are seeing is the tray under the diamond through some of the steps - I mean this is almost inevitable, but perhaps there is more 'tray' visible than in the other two.

Of the three I have a slight preference for the one on the right. But looking at the aset and diamxray it looks a little worrying. I don't think KarlK can comment as the vendor carries his stones but I'd love an expert opinion as to whether there is hope for the dark steps. As long as they don't stay 'black' at various angles it's okay. That said, looking again, there does appear to be one 'dead' step. I'm not certain I'd choose this one either.

Something that bothers me is that they have not put the diamonds under dim and 'steroided' spotlighting like they normally do. I would personally ask for this to assess fire.

Also notice that 1 and 3 have very different outlines. 3 has much wider cut corners, a more octagonal look. Are you feeling a preference for either shape?

I don't know whether you are in a time crunch but if none hit your sweetspot that is okay.

Probably some will disagree with my opinions but after having spent too much time looking at asschers I thought a distillation of my own personal thoughts might be helpful.

 

[marymm]

^ hi CoralFish - I am bit confused by your reference to the 0.90ct F-VS2 Asscher having a big table... 62.4% is not generally considered a big table - can you elaborate on your comment? (Or did I misread the stats?) The Gog E-VS2 diamond does have a large table at 70.5% but the other 3 under consideration by OP all have tables between 61.4-62.4%. By the way, I do have the same preference as you, in terms of favoring smaller tables in Asschers.

 

[Coralfish]

Hi Marymm

Thanks for your comment. I love your asscher, I actually went back and 'visited' it several times over the course of a few months when it was for sale and am glad you bought it so I could see more pictures! May I ask, do you know how many pavillion steps it has?

Re op stone - I know table falls within most people's parameters of 'ok size' but for me it's just too big.

Also - I've noticed, with tables, and I don't know how or why this is, I *expect* some function of crown angle and therefore proximity to the eye/distance from girdle, however minutely different, some tables 'appear' larger than others with the same %. On this particular diamond it just reads as very big. I was surprised it was a 'low' as it was.

It's a conundrum how much detail to go into when trying to offer advice. And how much to explain about tastes and parameters without pushing your own taste onto an OP. I mean for most people things like corner size or table size etc are probably lower down the list of considerations, but I think about the splodge of money going on a stone like this and how many years I hope it will be enjoyed, and just feel I have to tell the OP everything I know about asschers so she can choose what is and isn't a priority for her (if she has the time).

I feel like she can do better, in this case if I am honest quite a bit better than the three GOG stones, and I think GOG can find a 'honey' for her if they keep looking, but you don't know with an OP whether she or he can, or even wants to, spend a long time getting to grips with the nuances of their particular chosen cut, and whether the details you are pointing out put someone off a perfectly functional stone.

Also she would like F or higher and perhaps there is a slight compromise on cut quality within a given budget.

As a good comparison OP, as videos say it better than words, here is a 'honey' and at H VVS1 (and bear in mind you are safe to go down to VS1 and probably beyond on a case-by-case basis in an asscher) would possibly (not sure!) have come in around your budget like for like today. (I am not going to try and talk you down to an H as I know everyone's eyes are different and if you are going to see colour you will see it in an asscher, in my experience).

2nd from left:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7SBfNGxTFE&list=UUEV7slr-i-VduBBnfv9MxhA

Isn't it lovely?

Here is where it came to rest:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-beaudry-asscher-dream-ring-with-side-pink-sapphires.183959/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-beaudry-asscher-dream-ring-with-side-pink-sapphires.183959/[/URL]

 

[marymm]

gotcha, Coralfish, now I understand where you're coming from... much thanks for explaining further.

I think your comments/insight on Asscher cut parameters and performance will be helpful not just for the OP but for anyone who is trying to understand how table and crown/steps/corners and windmills all come together to achieve a high-performing Asscher (or not).

Thanks for your compliment on my little half-carat Asscher - funnily enough I haven't ever counted the steps - I do treasure it though.

I also love DS's Asscher in her Beaudry ring, and agree that it is a top-performing Asscher.

Not sure if OP's timeline permits, but it would be great if GOG could find another couple options to consider.

 

[Californiadreaming]

Hello!

Thanks once again for taking the time to reply.

Wow I feel so confused now - I wish I was more knowledgeable (and decisive?!) about this diamond purchasing business!

Coral - really appreciate your full and honest reply. I do feel a bit baffled about the table, as I don't have as keen an eye as you do, and was just slavishly following numbers on this aspect .

If I'm totally honest, when I looked at the video of the three GOG stones, what I thought was this: 'The first stone looks nice, the second one seems kind of 'messy' looking, the third one is great but I'm slightly worried about those black areas' and that was all!

I have asked James Allen for two assets for the following stones:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.04-carat-f-color-si2-clarity-sku-523981

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/0.91-carat-e-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-583832

They have replied saying please do try to find a third stone to compare so I wondered about this:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-308147

But please do let me know if any of you have time to peruse James Allen and pick out a more promising looking stone to compare.

Time wise, it is my 20th anniversary in early November (20 years of being together, 10 years marriage) so I would like the ring done and dusted by end of October. Knowing me it will take a while to work out what setting and what to do with my eternity ring (that's a whole other thread!) so I'm really trying to get this done now-ish. I am also aware that JA and GOG won't hold any stones I am interested in for too long (in fact I need to ask them how long they will hold them for).


CD

 

[MarionC]

I have to read this whole thread more thoroughly, but thought to share my experience. I got 2 JA asschers, the first one was great, but at .90 at my age I could not even see that it was a square cut, so I went to a 1.55 and it leaked. SO I wrote to GOG about an Asscher on their website and it was spectacular. 1.23 K
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLJ4hf-VPJU

I would trust them to find a great performer.
DS's Beaudry is my all-time favorite too! Top of the list.

 

[MarionC]

Hm-m. Now my post seems a bit rude but I can't delete it. JA can get nice Asschers, but I feel that GOG is more invested in maintaining their reputation for finding great Asschers. Their help seemed very personalized. Also, a .90 is a nice size!
Best in your search. The Asschers are tricky and it's worth the wait to find just the right one.

 

[Californiadreaming]

Thank you for your thoughts Jimmi.

I don't think your post came across rude at all, it is your own personal experience.

 

[Coralfish]

Hi California

Don't worry if you are going on instinct. We are just trying to break down in technical terms the whats and whys of why you may feel inclined toward one stone or another so any feedback you have is most useful. Did you feel that the H VVS1 was a 'better' stone? Perhaps you did not, this information is all useful to us in helping to narrow down your tastes.

From your comments re. the three stones I suspect you are drawn to the wider-cornered outline in asscher three. Do you see how it is more octagonal? Perhaps you can instruct GOG to find more with those wider corners if that is how you feel.

That said, I think the two you have on hold from JA look very promising.

It may help to pop down your preliminary Settings thoughts. Just because if what you want can be got for cheaper than you anticipate, there may be more spendability on the stone. I think you anticipated getting it set in London. Forgive me if I have got this wrong. Unless you have a favourite jeweller I would consider more scope, from the stock settings of James Allen to the higher end manufactured settings GOG can call in (Ritani etc) then stopping on the way to a personalised mixed cast and forged setting from someone like Brilliantly Engaged to the the hand forged Victor Canera at the other end.

Also the turnaround time for those settings can be built into your timeline so perhaps we have more time to find you a stone.

If you feel inclined, perhaps pop down a couple of inspiration images and your anticipated budget all in for setting alone. Of course don't feel you have to.

If you already have your eternity maybe let us know what it looks like and therefore what settings will work well with it. Or perhaps it is on its way to a reset that is dependent on how you will set your asscher.

The diamond market is such a funny thing, sometimes there is simply a paucity of good stones in the specs one is looking for, then sometimes there is a glut.

I want to ask, forgive me that it is a redundant question, but just to be certain, are you set on F or would you actually consider a G or H?



Ps thank you Marymm for your kind comments. If you ever count your pavillion steps I'd love to know!

 

[Californiadreaming]

Hi again Coral

Very good points.

Re the other JA stone I chose, I really couldn't see anything else there I loved the look of. I don't know if any look good to you if you have time to look?

Re setting I think something similar to the Lucida. Something simple. I would like a setting that doesn't make it look too pointy-at-the-corners square! I'm not sure what that means in terms of prongs. I think you are right I need to look into how much that would cost, that makes sense!! I guess I have about $1000 to spend on setting.

Yes I do rather like the octagonal look.

I enclose pics of my eternity. Terrible pics, terrible phone sorry. It's large for my finger, 3carats ish. I know the .90 might look swamped so it's possible I will get a new simple band and wear the eternity ring on my right hand.

I have also been toying with taking the stones out of the channel setting...

 

[Coralfish]

If I had to pick another asscher from JA, I would pick this but

BEWARE THE SYMMETRY ISSUE

this can be the most irritating thing in the world if you are a symmetry lover

(see how there is just a little too much table on the left of the keel, compared with on the right?)

It is also very slightly elongated, with a tiny keel instead of a culet.
Also there is the grademaker inclusion in the table which would not bother me but would bother some.

All that said, I think it will perform very well if you can get over the symmetry

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.08-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-370692

------------------------------------------

Optional deeply unnecessary diversion

Just for fun, and because I am a spanner in the works kind of person, here is a 'Kruppy' style emerald cut which is a cutie

(read about Kruppys if interested here
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gorgeous-kruppy-ec-for-the-brave-and-why-ec-numbers-lie.201227/page-2']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gorgeous-kruppy-ec-for-the-brave-and-why-ec-numbers-lie.201227/page-2[/URL]
)

The steps look dark but importantly light up as the diamond rotates, so if of interest would be worth pursuing to ASET stage, hopefully EC experts can chime in

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/0.90-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-374200

And here is another scrumptious EC outside both your cut and spec parameters! Forgive me

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.02-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-588359


Here is a most enabling thread if you are being tempted beyond the 1:1 ratio

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ec-in-sholdt-semi-bezel-pearlmans-pics.180994/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ec-in-sholdt-semi-bezel-pearlmans-pics.180994/[/URL]

 

[Coralfish]

Hi California,

Just saw your update. Oh, what a gorgeous eternity.

I think you are envisioning the vatche x-prong? D'vatche (or however you say it) actually manufacture the lucida setting for tiffany.

Actually your future set does make me think of the lovely woofmama's set which I linked to in my last post. The Sholdt semi-bezel with eternity.

Here is a vatche x prong set with an asscher. Is this the right feel?

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/asscher-in-custom-vatche-royal-x-prong.120490/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/asscher-in-custom-vatche-royal-x-prong.120490/[/URL]

There are very close facsimiles of the vatche out there. James allen have something similar for $370 in 14k white gold (470 in 18k white, 740 in platinum).

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/14k-white-gold-thin-cross-prong-diamond-engagement-ring-item-121

In the box with the rotating picture, select the drop down box in the bottom left and change from 'round' to 'asscher'. It is quite an effective version of the look.

 

[MarionC]

FYI, I had a custom setting made for my Asscher. It was sort of pricey, but at the time I thought I was doing the right thing. Already I want something different : (
For my OEC I purchased a temp setting from Stuller. It was around $400. Turns out I love it and it works well. It will be a long time - maybe forever - before I look into a custom setting.
It might be worth checking out a Stuller catalog. The settings are well-made and quite nice designs from what I've seen.

 

[Coralfish]

Here is the rough pricing for the Vatche. I think James Allen can call in the Vatche for you too (??)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/vatche-engagement-ring-1.html

I would expect and ask for a discount on the setting if also buying the stone from GOG.

Also I must mention the James Allen advantage discount, ask for this to probably get somewhere between 50 and 120 dollars off your loose stone. Sometimes James Allen run 15% off settings at certain times of year too.

 

[Coralfish]

Good idea re Stuller Jimmianne. California, these are cast settings from a very big US manufacturer and supplier to the jewellery trade. There are UK equivalents but you will have a nightmare getting an outside stone set in the UK because of the near impossibility of getting the stone insured during setting. I mean they'll do it but the risk would be yours and to me it's an unacceptable level of risk. The chances of something going wrong are exceedingly slim but still there. In the US private customers can opt for this as Jeweler's Mutual will insure loose stones, or the bench of the place you bought the stone will cover the whole thing. GOG and I'm pretty sure JA too can call in Stuller settings.

Here are the Stuller options. I'd guess pricing starts at around $300 for 14k white gold.

Like the vatche

http://www.stuller.com/products/build/122100/9139673/?groupId=119111#/center-stone

Like the Sholdt (ish)

http://www.stuller.com/products/build/122062/5393318/?groupId=117252#/center-stone

Rather nice but 'discontinued'!

http://www.stuller.com/products/inactive/?iid=5336364



PS I love your eternity as is. If it was me I would not change it but of course it is a matter of taste and sometimes wanting a change. Are you considering shared prong?

Two slight variations:

https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/asscher-shared-prong-eternity-band
(I like almost everything he does but this is a little heavy-handed)

http://www.kwiat.com/asscher-cut-shared-prong-wedding-ring/1526

A true shared-prong:
(Sorry I could not find an acceptable looking version with asschers)

http://www.kingofjewelry.com/jewelry/10-5-Ct-Emerald-Cut-Diamond-Eternity-Ring-Shared-Prong-38269.html

 

[Californiadreaming]

Wow Coral fish where do I start!

Thanks a million for your thoughts and links.

Setting - yes absolutely the Vatche! I really like that.

Eternity potential new setting - LOVE the shared prong Not sure it's as practical as a channel set band? But I need to buy this new ring then decide and see how they look and feel together.

You're so funny with your comments and links about asymmetrical stones - it's like you are luring unsuspecting innocents into a new dark world!! Ha, I think the anal side of me feels slightly itchy at asymmetrical look...I'm not even sure why! But some of those rings are bloody gorgeous...

I am going to go through all your links again and have a good look.

 

[Californiadreaming]

Jimmi thanks - thanks for that, that's helpful.

However, I am still leaning towards getting it set in London because it will be a headache to send the ring (or stone) back to the US if it's wrong size or fit. I would rather just get the stone. But I do need to get a ballpark figure - can't believe I've not actually done that, have just been guessing

 

[Coralfish]

Hi California,

Holts will set the stone for around 2-300 pounds (exc VAT).

They never answered my questions re. insurance of the loose stone - who's liable if it gets damaged at the bench etc...
That's the major hang up I have with setting a stone here. If you can find a bench who will (in writing) take responsibility for setting it, or you are willing to take the risk, then that's fine.

I would urge you to consider a US setting from your stone seller. Diamond solitaires are straightforward enough to resize. If you buy a brand such as Sholdt or Vatche I think they have to be resized at source or the warranty would be invalidated, but then again I'm not sure their warranty would be valid for an overseas purchase. If they have authorised UK resellers, perhaps they will resize it for a fee. The fee will be higher than a standard resize.

Another option:
Have the empty mount posted to you, try it on, then post it back and have the diamond set. Even two back and forths would be cheaper than UK setting.

Also sourcing the same ring from a UK seller will most probably be pricier but this is just a bye-the-bye.

Are you thinking generic or branded x-prong? No worries if not sure as yet.

 

[Californiadreaming]

Ok thanks - so much to learn! I will think about that some more then.

I have now asked JA for three assets for three stones so will be back soon when I have them!

I'm getting there - kind of...!

 

[Californiadreaming]

Hi all. I have the three asset images from James Allen.

The first is a 0.91 CARAT E-VVS2 ASSCHER CUT DIAMOND
SKU:583832

The second is 1.04 CARAT F-SI2 ASSCHER CUT DIAMOND
SKU:523981

The third is 1.08 CARAT E-SI1 EMERALD CUT DIAMOND
SKU:370692

How do you think they compare to the GOG stones and which is your preference?

James Allen recommends the1.08 stone, it's the one Coralfish suggested to me!

The GOG stones links are in my first post and the JA one links for these stones a little further down.

Please help me on this, and thank you in advance!( GOG have given me til Tuesday to hold their stones).