Feral and stray cats

[Sparkles22]

Your kitties are beautiful. I love the softpaws they're so cute, it looks like she has a pink manicure! I'm glad to hear Chloe didn't dart from the brush! With our kitties we always feed them until they were full and worried about the amount after they were 1 year old. Of course I think I said this but 2 of my cats are 11 lbs and one is 12 lbs, 2 are muscle... the other... well she's just curvy. Another thing to think about is the kitty is probably used to eating as much as she can when she can since she wouldn't have been sure when her next meal was coming. She is probably going to be more active than Chloe too (because she's still a kitten) and will require more food for energy expendature! I love her feet those are cute. Oreo has feet like that too where only certain paws on the foot are pink and others are black on the same foot! Oreo's nose is like that too (multicolored), pink outlined in black...so cute!

Continue to keep us posted!

Oh yeah and I LOVE when they kneed!!!!!

 

[Gypsy]

My Duncan and Frodo both did the overfeeding too. It gets better.


Right now she''s used to feast or famine. She doesn''t know this arrangement is permanent honey. She''s storing up as much LIFE in her as she can in case she ends up outside again. Give her as much as she can eat for now. Make sure to keep her on a schedule, that will help a lot with her fears of starvation. After a few months (like 5) ... keep her on the same schedule... but cut her back to smaller portions so when she hits her year... she''s eating the right amount.

Plus she''s a kitten, she has higher energy requirements.

 

[chrono]

I had been reading but had no advice. I just crumbled and had to post when I saw those pictures. I just want to grab Chloe (in the curled up picture) and squeeze her until she "eeks". Holly still looks thin but I''m sure her coat will shine and fill out more in your care.

 

[sumbride]

Have you had her checked for worms? I remember having to de-worm our stray. He stopped eating quite as much afterward. It was 1 pill a day for 3 days. Easy enough.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 5/4/2007 3:10:35 PM
Author: Chrono
I just crumbled and had to post when I saw those pictures. I just want to grab Chloe (in the curled up picture) and squeeze her until she ''eeks''.

Heehee - me too. She''s so soft and cuddly - I give her lots of kisses and head bonks when she looks like that.

Sumbride - Holly was given dewormer at the vet - they didn''t mention doing anything else. I haven''t found any in the presents she leaves in the litterbox.

 

[FireGoddess]

Here''s one more Chrono. The lighting is natural - no flash was used. I want to squoosh her when she looks like this!!

 

[FireGoddess]

Watching the birds in the window...

 

[AmberGretchen]

OMG - Chloe is such a cutie pie!! I totally want to scratch behind her sweet little ears in those pictures

I would feed the new baby as much as she wants, but like Gypsy said, try to do it on a schedule. According to my vet, if and only if she starts getting a lot of abdominal fat should you worry about it. Its OK for them to have a little but as young kitties they should be pretty lean. However, she''s unlikely to pork out before 1 year old, and will definitely need to eat more than Chloe. Oliver was an uber-piglet when we first got him - he seemed like he just never got enough food, although I guess considering how much he grew (2 lbs to 12.5 lbs in 8 months) that''s not surprising lol

Thanks again so much for giving Holly a wonderful home - she looks like such a sweetie and it warms my heart to know she has a loving home

 

[FireGoddess]

Alright - I would LOVE some advice from people who have normal cats, because Chloe is a far, far exception to the rule.

The problem: Holly, from the sheer number of bites I am getting, gets overstimulated and shows petting aggression fairly quickly. She rubs against me and wants me to pet her, arches her back and flings against me, even gets on my lap to be petted. However, she is showing me no intermediate between ''pet me please'' and ''I''ve had enough.'' She does not give a warning growl, or a claws-hidden paw strike, or even a gentle bite that doesn''t hurt but says ''enough.'' She full on bites HARD to the point that she''s causing me puncture wounds and bleeding. It''s starting to piss me off.

I''m trying to figure this out. I have a cat behavior book at home and they talk about the water bottle. I tried that twice today. Then I realized that it''s a dumb idea to use when you''re petting the cat and it bites, because that teaches it to fear you. Not what I want. It would be great when she gets up on the kitchen counter or something so she learns that is bad, but not when she bites me because she''ll just associate it with me and not the bite.

I must say that this experience is making me realize how special Chloe is. She is truly 1 in a million. Yes, she is scared of everything including her own shadow, but over time this has ceased to extend to me. I can hold her, clip her nails, do whatever I want, and she never, NEVER bites or scratches. She also loves to be loved and with her, exposed belly does mean ''pet me'' which I know is rare. Anyway, the point is, Chloe will never, ever bite or scratch me, EVER. Which makes it easy to take care of her. She still has her limits and I know what those are, and I respect them. But at least with her I don''t ever have to fear a lashout. She chooses ''flight'' over ''fight.'' I know that normal cats are not like this. But the other cats my family has had all have ''warning signs'' of growling, or batting, or tail thumping. Not zero to ''attack.'' That means if Holly is giving me signs, they''re not ''loud and clear.'' I understand that she had to be this way to survive. I''m just wondering if it''s going to get better or not.

I called the Humane Society behavior hotline and left a message. I''m hoping they have some tips. I adore this cat but the puncture wounds are really starting to piss me off. A lot. She is so sweet and deserves a good home. I want to give her that. But I''m getting fed up with the full on attack biting. Help!!!

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 5/4/2007 9:20:12 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
OMG - Chloe is such a cutie pie!! I totally want to scratch behind her sweet little ears in those pictures

I would feed the new baby as much as she wants, but like Gypsy said, try to do it on a schedule. According to my vet, if and only if she starts getting a lot of abdominal fat should you worry about it. Its OK for them to have a little but as young kitties they should be pretty lean. However, she''s unlikely to pork out before 1 year old, and will definitely need to eat more than Chloe. Oliver was an uber-piglet when we first got him - he seemed like he just never got enough food, although I guess considering how much he grew (2 lbs to 12.5 lbs in 8 months) that''s not surprising lol

Thanks again so much for giving Holly a wonderful home - she looks like such a sweetie and it warms my heart to know she has a loving home

Thanks for the tips AG. She keeps crying for food even though it seems like I''m giving her a lot! Today was the first time she actually left some food in the bowl this morning (I gave her a 5 oz can). However, when I went for an afternoon pet session, she was crying for more. I have been keeping her to a schedule of morning and evening. I gave her a few treats but didn''t do an afternoon meal. She''ll get another 5 oz can tonight.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Hey FG - sorry to hear about Holly''s aggression issues. This link has a handout you can download on overstimulation and aggression. I apologize if you''ve seen this already; it seemed to have some good tips. I think the one thing I got from reading it plus your post is that the signals can be extremely subtle, and so maybe watching Holly VERY closely while petting might help. Also, the idea of trying to figure out how much she can take and stopping long before that. Maybe sometimes when she is throwing herself against you you should just let her and not pet her, just sit quietly, maybe even read a book or watch a movie or something. And make sure she''s getting plenty of energetic play time (a laser pointer can be good for this if she likes it). Also maybe experiment with petting different parts of her and see if she seems more likely to be aggressive with petting on some parts vs. others.

Anyway, those are just some thoughts, and that handout might be helpful as well. I really hope the Humane Society gets back to you and if they don''t, try the SF/SPCA - they have a cat behavior hotline as well. I can see where that behavior is frustrating though - I really hope it gets better!

 

[pyramid]

Hi I just wanted to add that we once had a cat who only wanted to be stroked on her head and occasionally on her back or at the sides of her face. She was a friendly cat too and used to go down to the gate and let strangers stroke her. You said about Chloe and petting her belly, is that where you are petting Holly? I once read in a cat book that cats have in inbuilt thing from the wild where they are purring one minute and bite you the next without warning, they were referring to stroking them on their belly. The book meant to say they had given of themselves to you too much and this inbuilt sensor goes off and they suddenly bite. Chloe surely doesn't have one or maybe different breeds/cats have stronger ties to where they came from.

 

[FireGoddess]

Thanks for the link again AG. If I did read that article, I forgot about it. It says similar stuff to the book I have, but does have some more info. I will try it out!

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 5/5/2007 8:19:19 PM
Author: Pyramid
Hi I just wanted to add that we once had a cat who only wanted to be stroked on her head and occasionally on her back or at the sides of her face. She was a friendly cat too and used to go down to the gate and let strangers stroke her. You said about Chloe and petting her belly, is that where you are petting Holly? I once read in a cat book that cats have in inbuilt thing from the wild where they are purring one minute and bite you the next without warning, they were referring to stroking them on their belly. The book meant to say they had given of themselves to you too much and this inbuilt sensor goes off and they suddenly bite. Chloe surely doesn''t have one or maybe different breeds/cats have stronger ties to where they came from.

Once, the first day, was the belly. I got a bite for that and that was the end of trying to pet there! Now I just pet Holly on the head, ears, chin, and back. I usually get bitten while petting her on the back, she''ll whip around and bite. I need to watch very carefully to err on the side of caution.

 

[pyramid]

She sounds like the cat we had years ago. Now that I think about it the gate we had was slatted lengthwise, she used to put her head through there so where strangers stroked her they could only stroke her head. Maybe when you stroke the cat's back she suddenly thinks it is not you but something else going to attack her.

 

[FireGoddess]

That''s definitely a possibility Pyramid. I recognize that this kitty is young and to be in the decent shape she was, she had to become very good at hunting and protecting herself. I''m sure she doesn''t mean to give me puncture wounds, but that''s little consolation when my hand is covered in swollen scabbed mounds!!! LOL. She does like the petting on the back, but only till she''s had enough.

At first I thought it was a hunting thing so I tried to tire her out with the feather dancer toy. She attacked that thing and I got a good sense of how she survived till now! Definitely a killer! Anyway, after that I let her calm down, walk around, chill out, and then she head butted me and got in my lap so I started the petting. It lasted a minute or two and then the head whip and bite. It only happens every few times though, not every time. I wish she''d just walk away instead!!

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 5/5/2007 8:33:09 PM
Author: FireGoddess

Once, the first day, was the belly. I got a bite for that and that was the end of trying to pet there! Now I just pet Holly on the head, ears, chin, and back. I usually get bitten while petting her on the back, she'll whip around and bite. I need to watch very carefully to err on the side of caution.

FG, a lot of cats don't like to be petted on their back, either. A lot of times during mating the male cat kind of grabs the female by the back of the neck and I don't know if that shows dominance or what, but none of my cats have ever liked being petted on the back for long. One stroke, maybe. Eddie doesn't even like it and he's the most patient cat I've ever met. He lets the kids carry him everywhere, even the 5 year old. So maybe that's it. And, she's been on her own a lot. I just wouldn't pet her much for a little while, just a few pets and gradually build up. You may be able to see what her tolerance is from there.

Occasionally Eddie will nip at me, but it's rare, and he sort of just acts like he's going to bite, the teeth never actually pinch me. When we first got him and he did actually bite (but not hard enough to break skin), I hissed at him. It did not take long at all for him to get the idea.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 5/5/2007 8:53:15 PM
Author: lumpkin

Occasionally Eddie will nip at me, but it''s rare, and he sort of just acts like he''s going to bite, the teeth never actually pinch me. When we first got him and he did actually bite (but not hard enough to break skin), I hissed at him. It did not take long at all for him to get the idea.

I love this. I have actually thought about trying it. It seems like a hiss would be better understood than me saying NO! It''s sorta more like speaking their language.

 

[AmberGretchen]

FG - I think the hissing thing is not a bad idea. The article I linked actually suggests blowing in their face, which has the same effect. I believe its the one on "play aggression" from that same website that has suggestions for how to judge if you''re doing that right - I believe it was that you want the cat to stop the behavior but not run away scared. Definitely worth reading up on a little more. It does sound like limited petting, and only on the head and face may be better for now and then build up to the other stuff. I know amongst our three they have varying tolerance for petting on places other than the head - Oliver can nip a lot if you pet his back or legs or tummy, but he loves head rubs (so sad that I can''t play with those tufty little furry feeties except when he''s really sleepy...).

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 5/6/2007 12:16:26 AM
Author: AmberGretchen
FG - I think the hissing thing is not a bad idea. The article I linked actually suggests blowing in their face, which has the same effect. I believe its the one on ''play aggression'' from that same website that has suggestions for how to judge if you''re doing that right - I believe it was that you want the cat to stop the behavior but not run away scared. Definitely worth reading up on a little more. It does sound like limited petting, and only on the head and face may be better for now and then build up to the other stuff. I know amongst our three they have varying tolerance for petting on places other than the head - Oliver can nip a lot if you pet his back or legs or tummy, but he loves head rubs (so sad that I can''t play with those tufty little furry feeties except when he''s really sleepy...).

Eddie head bonks my face. He is super affectionate and he just gets right on up there in my face. During allergy season I can really only take this a little bit so when he starts walking up my chest to get in my face I blow gently on his face. He backs down, tries again and then I blow into his face again. I think I say something like, "Not now, Eddie. Sit down." or "Off, Eddie," and he does back off. I only hiss at him when he''s aggressive, which is usually when he''s feeling spry and ready to play, and even then it''s rare. The face blowing works really well for all the other stuff.

I never read about the hissing, it was just something I did without thinking about it. I know what you mean FG, it pisses me off when a cat bites me, too. I think I hissed at him because it made me mad! But he backed right off, so apparently it was affective, LOL.

One of my first jobs was working in a warehouse (the office part) and we had a couple of mouser cats. One was an all black cat, I can''t even remember his name, and he was very affectionate, but very, very independent. He was intelligent and had this in charge attitiude. He spent a lot of time on my lap for the first few months I worked there. But every once in a while he would go absolutely wild and you just would have to let him alone and let him have his fit. He would hang on to one of the extra chairs, just clinging to the back of it with his claws with his ears laid back. It was funny because he KNEW I did not like it when he did that and I think I said something to him once about "Geesh, get over yourself." And he quit coming to my desk as much. It always stuck with me how cats can be perceptive to things like approval or when we love them (or are annoyed with them).

 

[kohdy]

Date: 5/5/2007 9:46:27 PM
Author: FireGoddess

Date: 5/5/2007 8:53:15 PM
Author: lumpkin

Occasionally Eddie will nip at me, but it''s rare, and he sort of just acts like he''s going to bite, the teeth never actually pinch me. When we first got him and he did actually bite (but not hard enough to break skin), I hissed at him. It did not take long at all for him to get the idea.

I love this. I have actually thought about trying it. It seems like a hiss would be better understood than me saying NO! It''s sorta more like speaking their language.

Lumpkin,
I am glad to know that I am not the only person to have tried hissing at my cats! This, by the way, works pretty well, at least with my kitties. I have also tried biting my cat when hissing didn''t work, but of course only to an extent that it wouldn''t hurt her!

I get this dumbfounded look from the cat, of course, but it still makes her stop for one reason or another!

In fact, I don''t even remember when the last time I did this. My cats are definitely on their best behaviors these days!

FireGoddess,
I get a feeling that Holly does not fully trust you yet, which is totally understandable. When I first brought Cherry home, she behaved exactly that way: no warnings whatsoever prior to scratching or biting! She also did not let me anywhere near her tummy for the first few months!!! Now? She does not bite even when I pet her in the tummy for minutes at a time! She will now growl first when she wants to tell me that it is enough! There is a great chance that Holly will stop biting and scratching once she realizes that you will never do anything to hurt her. Give her some time!

 

[Gypsy]

Hissing is a really great suggestion as it does work. I didn''t know about when I first got my cats so I would just use a firm NO and a tap on the bottom when they tried to nip. Now they just walk away when the get overstimulated. It''s going to take a little training FG. Duncan was the nipper. Now he''s GOLD with his paws and teeth.
Avoid her problem areas for now, and only pet her when she approaches you. As she learns to trust you it will get better.

I have 3 scars from training Noel... who really did just NOT get it for the longest time. But even she learned to cry or walk away instead of scratching. The key was that she had to trust me to put her down or walk away too.

I would be understandably ticked off too. ((HUGS))

 

[VegasAngel]

If you know your about to give a good petting session you can always try rubbing some bitter apple spray on your hands hopefully she will learn biting your hands isnt a good idea. Just be sure to wash them welll after you are finished.

 

[Sparkles22]

One of my cats likes to only be petted on the head and under the chin, even though he'll roll on his back and expose his tummy. If you pet elsewhere he bites, just hard enough to say that pisses me off stay off the white areas, LOL! That's how I tell everyone, don't pet the white (his tummy is white). But he also gets mad if you pet his back too. He usually will bite (not hard enough to break skin) get all wacked out and run off. Over time I gave up petting him to just a little under his chin and on his head. He now will come crawling into my lap since he trusts me not to pet the off limit areas, and although he's in my lap and I really just want to pet him all over, I have to just do the top of his head, behind ears and chin, and he doesn't like it for too long. Also I honestly think he would rather be talked to and told he's a good boy (that gets the loudest purrs) rather than petted. But he is a lot more affectionate these days, he would have never curled up in my lap before.

I love the pictures of Chloe what a cutie! I just want to snuggle up with her!

When my cat would bite they would bite and look at me with their mouth still around me, I found that if I made a sound like "ENT", nather than NO it seemed more alarming to them and they would get the message, I don't know why it works. My friend uses it on her dog, so I adopted it from her, and I thought it was really strange at first, but it really gets their attention a lot better.

ETA: Chloe needs to teach Holly proper kitty manners!

 

[FireGoddess]

Hey everybody! Weekend kitties update...

Holly has calmed down on the eating and is not snarfing everything in sight in 2 seconds anymore. That''s good! She''s still eating almost twice as much as Chloe but she does make it last awhile longer than she was before (which was inhaling it). She even had a tiny bit left over at the next feeding. Shocker.

Holly did not bite me on Saturday evening or on Sunday at all. I followed her lead and her head bonks, and petted her head and even her back, but the back only a few strokes before I stopped. She never got to the agitated point and never nipped at me.

The hilarious thing is that she wants to sit on my lap. She parks it there and purrs and head butts me but I don''t dare pet her body. I just let her sit there. I''m just treating her head as the ''safe place'' and I let her show me she wants petting by head butting me instead of just doing so of my own accord.

This morning was great too and she didn''t nip or get overexcited or anything. But then randomly my hand was on the table and she got on top of it and tried to bite (not so hard to break skin this time, thankfully) and I said NO! and she stopped. Didn''t run away, just stopped. That was good.

I gotta laugh because she wants to be near me and wants to sit in my lap, and I just want to squeeze her but I have to restrain myself and just pet a tiny bit and let her head bonk me to show she wants more. Maybe someday she''ll trust me enough that I feel comfortable with more. I closed my bedroom door w/ Chloe in there and let Holly roam the rest of the house. She sniffed around and everything. I had to water bottle squirt her when she jumped on the kitchen counter, but that was all. She sat next to me on the couch and just chilled. Very cute.

Chloe has been totally fine. I want Holly to do a few more walks around the house so Chloe can smell her before I even remotely think about a next step, which would be removing the tablecloth from the french doors so they can see each other but not interact.

Thanks for the input guys - you made me feel much better. I didn''t want to end up w/ a cat I was scared to touch. Over time hopefully she will come to trust me more.

 

[AmberGretchen]

FG - that sounds like EXCELLENT progress with Holly, and also that things are proceeding so far at a pace that''s working for Chloe as well - it sounds like you are doing everything exactly right!

I have to say I really do think she will come around to letting you touch her more as she learns to trust you more. She may always have sensitive areas and get overstimulated, but she is so young and you are training her in such a good way and its so early in the process that you probably won''t know for sure for a while. I also remembered that Oliver was teething around that age, so that might explain some of the biting as well. Also, I know a lot of kittens have to be trained about the difference between hands (and feet, and any other body part that might wiggle or dangle enticingly in kitty''s line of vision) and toys - what''s appropriate to attack and what''s not. The response you gave is exactly what I''ve seen recommended, so hopefully with a little more time and training she should get that as well.

Thanks so much for the update - it sounds like things are going really really well, and its so wonderful that you are able to give Holly such a lovely home so far.

 

[Gypsy]

I used to use a kitten mit with Duncan. I would put it on and rub him and play with him and let him nip and play with it telling him he was a 'good boy'. Then I'd take it off, and using the same hand I'd pet him and tell him 'no' if he tried to nip or play. Then I'd use both hands, one with mit and one with out... he quickly learned that mommy's bare hands and feet (I pet him with my feet too) and not places to scratch or bit or nip. And he's never attacked my stockinged or socked feet.

Now the funny thing is, occasionally he wil nip at DF when he gets overly playful or overstimulated... but even at the height of his excitment if I stick *my* hand in there he doesn't do anything AT ALL to it. Will not hurt me in any way.

AND... regardless of the poeple that are convinced that animals don't have similar reactions and feeling that we do... once we got Noel and were training her... if she hurt me, he would come over... sniff at my hand (the blood) and then go over and smack her. He used to punish her for hurting me. He did it everytime she drew blood. He does it with the other's too, though it is very rare they even scratch me.

He doesn't pay any mind to them most of the time. But when mommy get's hurt? Watch out.

 

[FireGoddess]

OMG Gypsy, Duncan is hilarious. Like mommy's little defender. I love that.

I hope you are right AG that Holly will come to trust me more as time passes. She wants love so much - little kitty just sitting in my lap - SO CUTE!!! Except for the biting episodes - not so cute. But hopefully those will become fewer and fewer to none.

Holly is going to be spayed tomorrow and I will just get her chipped while I'm there as well since it's fairly inexpensive at this place. Poor little girl. Has to be done though!

 

[AmberGretchen]

Gypsy - that Duncan story cracks me up as well. He sounds like such a sweetie! I love sweet kitties

FG - our vet actually told us its better if they chip them at the same time as the spay since they don''t feel it was much that way. We had Ollie chipped after he was neutered because we got him already fixed, and it didn''t seem very traumatizing for him at all. Holly will probably be a little woozy from the surgery tomorrow but other than that she should be fine, and she''ll be so much happier she never has to go into heat!!

 

[FireGoddess]

I'm really glad to hear that AG. I figured it was just one less trip in the carrier but it's good to know she won't feel it as much since I'm doing it at the same time as the spay.

The front office guy said 'she might be a little bit pregnant.'

He checked her again for a surgery scar (none) and a microchip (none). Her nipples are slightly enlarged and he said her belly is 'a tiny bit round.' Holy crap.