cutting losses?

[surfgirl]

Wink, it's always interesting and enlightening to hear the other side of any story. I think people here tend to be afraid to speak up when something isn't going right with a vendor that's one of the PS vendors, if you will. That said, I just want to clarify that my comments were mainly to say - and I quote my grandfather - "S*#t or get off the pot." I dont know you or the designer but this entire process has been ridiculous, from an outsider's perspective looking in. There just is no way that I could ever justify this many months of deliberation on a ring. It makes no sense at all.

 

[Kaleigh]

Thanks for responding Wink. I kind of wish you weren''t dragged into all of this. I feel that if Ocean didn''t want to make the ring, she should have let Cehra know that. But maybe she did want to make the ring. All this back and forth, and love fests is ridiculous. I''m all for loving the work of a designer, or for that matter the work of a benchman. But if the work doesn''t progress in a timely manner, I am out of there, period.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/2/2007 10:17:24 PM
Author: surfgirl
Wink, it''s always interesting and enlightening to hear the other side of any story. I think people here tend to be afraid to speak up when something isn''t going right with a vendor that''s one of the PS vendors, if you will. That said, I just want to clarify that my comments were mainly to say - and I quote my grandfather - ''S*#t or get off the pot.'' I dont know you or the designer but this entire process has been ridiculous, from an outsider''s perspective looking in. There just is no way that I could ever justify this many months of deliberation on a ring. It makes no sense at all.

I can appreciate that from your point of view. We have always let Cehra know that we were willing to stop at any point, including long before we got a deposit. She and Ocean have been in ongoing talks. I would rather have stopped long ago, but both Cehra and Ocean wanted to pursue it.

I told Cehra that the decision is hers and hers alone, I will not attempt in any way to convince her to go forward or to stop, it is her decision not mine. Ocean left two weeks ago for her vacation and Cehra knew that. Now, Ocean is back and ready to make the ring. Whether we do or not is entirely up to Cehra. Either way I will not think less or more of her, I will like her either way.

Wink, who will say no more in this thread.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 8/2/2007 10:08:24 PM
Author: Wink

I am not at all sure that this is proper forum discussion and would rather have it be a private discussion as I thought it was, but since I am getting emails telling me I am not behaving properly I guess I should respond here. Actually I am glad for the emails, otherwise I would never have known about this thread as I do not normally come to the hangout.

Wink

I started this thread before I spoke to you Wink. And after that first day when ocean said my design wouldn''t work and I came here upset, I have kept my feelings thoughts concerns everything off the board, choosing to ONLY paint the situation with positive strokes, leaving the negative to myself.

I have done private discussion all along, though I do wish I had involved you in the process more along the way, Wink. You were of GREAT comfort for me today and I absolutely do NOT think you have been improper at all. My only regret where you are concerned is not having you more involved along the way. To have everything kinda dumped in your lap like this is unfair to you and if anyone is saying you were improper I will be the first to disagree. You trusted Ocean and I to work through all of this and even at this very moment I am torn and all cut up inside over this and I hate feeling like this. So the time came when I *needed* to get some objectivity and I sought it here. I am grateful to the women here for giving their thoughts.

And for those who think I *enjoy* dragging it out etc. I just want to say, I am an optimist and I''ve tried really hard to paint a rosy picture not just because I want everyone here to think the situation is ideal, but because *I* have needed to view things that way to be as accepting as I have been. Perhaps I have been too accepting and if that now makes me look bad, then I guess I have to live with that

 

[luckystar112]

NOT AT ALL!

Cehra...you have such a big heart, and it is obvious to me that you seek the positive in any given situation. You have been nothing but classy and professional. I am so glad that you are sharing this process with us! And I love that you appreciate the artistry that goes into making a unique piece.

And the very small selfish part of me is okay with the fact that it has taken this long, since you''ve said in the past on here that you may leave the forum after your ring is done. But I totally understand that this process has been stressful for you. Your stone inspired me to get a cushion, and your guidance has assured me that I''ll get a good one!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 8/2/2007 10:31:19 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Thanks for responding Wink. I kind of wish you weren''t dragged into all of this. I feel that if Ocean didn''t want to make the ring, she should have let Cehra know that. But maybe she did want to make the ring. All this back and forth, and love fests is ridiculous. I''m all for loving the work of a designer, or for that matter the work of a benchman. But if the work doesn''t progress in a timely manner, I am out of there, period.

Kaleigh, two things... one - wink shouldn''t be dragged in now because maybe he should have been more involved all along.... and two- ocean never said she didn''t want to make the ring, she just needed to *feel* it and it has been a collaboration. I went into this with a clear vision of what I wanted, yes. My first jeweler got it. Pete got it. A couple others got it - several people have said this is fairly straightforward and not very difficult. Ocean feels it is VERY complicated, but the more I think about it the more it is because she is so organic and has had trouble wrapping her head around my rather chunky architectural look (vs fluid and curvy) as well as this method which doesn''t allow her as much control.

I am having second thoughts because once again (this has happened 2-3 times before) I am faced with the reality of the situation (rather than the love fest as you put it) and if I am true to myself I''m looking at another month or two or more. I don''t think the "love fest" is ridiculous. It hasn''t been an unenjoyable journey, but there have been several times (2-3 like I saidI) where I felt like a blinder has been pulled off and I find myself to have been wooed way off course.

 

[TravelingGal]

Cehra, there''s nothing more to think about IMO. You are having second thoughts and you two are not working well together. You are frustrated enough that you''ve now put it out here for everyone to read. You asked our opinion, and it''s overwhelmingly in favor of finding someone else who will do the work for you.

You know what you want in this setting. You really don''t want to budge from your vision. Screw the $500 and just find someone who will do it already. It''s business and I''m sure everyone will understand.

How much longer are you gonna drag this out? With all due respect, I have said it before and will say it again - Get. It. Done.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 8/2/2007 11:37:53 PM
Author: luckystar112
NOT AT ALL!

Cehra...you have such a big heart, and it is obvious to me that you seek the positive in any given situation. You have been nothing but classy and professional. I am so glad that you are sharing this process with us! And I love that you appreciate the artistry that goes into making a unique piece.

And the very small selfish part of me is okay with the fact that it has taken this long, since you''ve said in the past on here that you may leave the forum after your ring is done. But I totally understand that this process has been stressful for you. Your stone inspired me to get a cushion, and your guidance has assured me that I''ll get a good one!

I wanted to share the process from day one, but it was requested of me to keep it off the boards, so by discussing it here I feel hugely disloyal and awful about that.... but on the other hand I am a consumer, this is a consumer forum, and I have reached a point where I would like the opinions of others in this.

I was at albertson''s today, I took a friend to get a passport picture. I know the girl behind the counter fairly well, I''m pretty friendly and talk to everyone... so we get there and I notice she keeps saying to us - let me get these people taken care of. And I thought well... on the one hand she''ll spend extra time with us making sure its a good picture because she knows me... on the other hand we aren''t dealt with immediately because there is a friendly assumption that we''ll be okay to wait while she acts professionally for the others who come into the line.

And then I realized to some extent this is the same situation as with Ocean. I know she''s putting a lot of extra of herself into this, but on the other hand I can be put off.

And it isn''t that I want to leave the forum.... it is that I need this whole ring/process to NOT be quite so central to my attention anymore. I have this 15k+ stone sitting out there somewhere that I haven''t seen for 5 months and all of the money aside, the time is just.... day to day I think I can take it another day another week another few weeks.... I asked that this be done by my anniversary and that was over a month ago. Truth be told she said it would be done within 10 days of her coming back from vacation and I told everyone a month because I *knew*. I''d seen a deadline like that pass before more than once. And I''ve always been understanding. If I approve everything and she makes it now I might have it by the end of the month.... but if I''m really honest with myself, the flourishes she''s added to the ring are still beyond what I really want and to drag her back to the drawing board AGAIN would cost at least a month or two, realistically. I feel like I''ve begun agreeing to things to get it overwith.

As for my stone being inspiration you have no idea how much that makes me happy. I love my stone, but I still suffer from "it isn''t ACA" LOL I talked to Brian a couple days ago and he thought my stone looked wonderful in the pics and IS and ASET etc and he told me "its a fancy" but the future physicist in me knows there can be an ideal even for oblong and anything less than that could be considered too much "character" LOL But oh well, who can measure love in terms of brilliance anyway?

Also - I miss my stone like I cannot even say.... it was so hard sending it off.... I sent it off march 1st. I have trouble remembering it "live".

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 8/2/2007 11:50:39 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Cehra, there''s nothing more to think about IMO. You are having second thoughts and you two are not working well together. You are frustrated enough that you''ve now put it out here for everyone to read. You asked our opinion, and it''s overwhelmingly in favor of finding someone else who will do the work for you.

You know what you want in this setting. You really don''t want to budge from your vision. Screw the $500 and just find someone who will do it already. It''s business and I''m sure everyone will understand.

How much longer are you gonna drag this out? With all due respect, I have said it before and will say it again - Get. It. Done.

You said it better than me TGal!! As always.

 

[curiopotter]

Sara,

You remember how long it took me to finally come to the realization that my previous jeweler wasn''t working for me. I really really REALLY wanted him to do it, because he was retiring, and also because we shared a mutal loss of a huge friend a few years ago, and I thought it would be so sentimental to wear a ring that he created, because he was such a dear friend of my old professor that died.

I''m also an artist, and I wanted something comletely unique and within my sensibilities, and I thought that by working with him, he would be able to satisfy those needs, and suggest inventive ideas I wouldn''t have thought of.

Unfortunately, it was just taking waaay too long, and during my idle time, I would spend literally HUNDREDS of hours looking at other people''s rings on here, and from other vendors. I ended up changing my mind about a few things (always knowing I wanted a halo), and kept my prof. in touch with the changes, to which he said were great ideas, but he would always add his ''taste'' in the mix, and then it became something I didn''t really think I wanted. I actually had doubts that I would get what I wanted, and that really started to scare me... I brushed it off thinking maybe it was because I was over-thinking it because of all the time that had gone by.



I love the design whifeflash was able to do for me, it was really in-line to what I originally wanted. I had a great relationship with my professor, but I really couldn''t wait anymore.

I think you should go to a designer who will get you what you want. Ocean is a wonderful designer, but maybe not the best suited to your style, and that''s a huge problem for artists (trust me, I know) to really dig their teeth into, when the style just doesn''t correlate with their own visions of beauty. She''s very fluid and organic, and your style is very architectural. Those two styles are hard to fit together (unless you''re Santiago Calatrava

).

Personally, from an artist''s side, I''ve had so many projects that I put off for MONTHS, like this current motorcycle I''m painting, because I just didn''t dig ''their'' vision, and I just kept pushing it aside because I really didn''t want to do it, but I said ''yes'' because I didn''t want to dissapoint the other person.

Anyway, long story short... I think my realization was just to cut my losses (months and months of wasted time), and go somewhere I could trust. I really wouldn''t stick with it if you''re just pushing along to get something done. You''ll end up wasting more time making a new ring years down the road.

Follow your gut, girl.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 8/3/2007 1:13:14 AM
Author: curiopotter
Sara,

You remember how long it took me to finally come to the realization that my previous jeweler wasn''t working for me. I really really REALLY wanted him to do it, because he was retiring, and also because we shared a mutal loss of a huge friend a few years ago, and I thought it would be so sentimental to wear a ring that he created, because he was such a dear friend of my old professor that died.

I''m also an artist, and I wanted something comletely unique and within my sensibilities, and I thought that by working with him, he would be able to satisfy those needs, and suggest inventive ideas I wouldn''t have thought of.

Unfortunately, it was just taking waaay too long, and during my idle time, I would spend literally HUNDREDS of hours looking at other people''s rings on here, and from other vendors. I ended up changing my mind about a few things (always knowing I wanted a halo), and kept my prof. in touch with the changes, to which he said were great ideas, but he would always add his ''taste'' in the mix, and then it became something I didn''t really think I wanted. I actually had doubts that I would get what I wanted, and that really started to scare me... I brushed it off thinking maybe it was because I was over-thinking it because of all the time that had gone by.



I love the design whifeflash was able to do for me, it was really in-line to what I originally wanted. I had a great relationship with my professor, but I really couldn''t wait anymore.

I think you should go to a designer who will get you what you want. Ocean is a wonderful designer, but maybe not the best suited to your style, and that''s a huge problem for artists (trust me, I know) to really dig their teeth into, when the style just doesn''t correlate with their own visions of beauty. She''s very fluid and organic, and your style is very architectural. Those two styles are hard to fit together (unless you''re Santiago Calatrava

).

Personally, from an artist''s side, I''ve had so many projects that I put off for MONTHS, like this current motorcycle I''m painting, because I just didn''t dig ''their'' vision, and I just kept pushing it aside because I really didn''t want to do it, but I said ''yes'' because I didn''t want to dissapoint the other person.

Anyway, long story short... I think my realization was just to cut my losses (months and months of wasted time), and go somewhere I could trust. I really wouldn''t stick with it if you''re just pushing along to get something done. You''ll end up wasting more time making a new ring years down the road.

Follow your gut, girl.

Thank you Curio - your post was very helpful to me. I think some are even more frustrated with this experience than I am LOL

My gut still wants Ocean to do my ring. This is true. But I need it done. I feel so invested with Ocean and it isn''t for nothing. People can make fun of the relationship all they want and I know this is a reason ocean wanted it all kept off the boards. I needed this exchange though. I needed to get some perspective. I see the downside to putting it all out there, but I also see the benefit and sometimes you need to let it all hang out, the good the bad and the ugly, so you can separate them from one another and have a good sense of what you want to do.

One of the things that I keep going back to - and as an artist you may appreciate this... is that in some ways Ocean knows what I want better than I know what I want. I feel okay with giving her the bones and letting her flesh them out, but sometimes the deviation is too far and I think the ONE thing that kicks my ass here more than anything else is that I know if I say, "I can''t live with this, I really want it to be like that" it could set us back weeks, months. THAT is the part that has me tied up. Working with an artist isn''t a disappointment in itself... but feeling once again like the end isn''t in sight just makes me feel on edge.

Perhaps I am totally out of line here. Part of me feels like I am - that I never should have brought it here.... but another part of me feels relieved because I''ve needed to say this for a long time and got to the point where I thought I''d explode. Not speaking up along the way was probably not wise... but I''m trying really hard right now to forgive myself for being honest and not being wise... its ridiculous, but I feel guilty for it all. I feel guilty for not speaking up, I feel guilty for speaking up, I feel guilty that this is all my fault, I feel guilty for taking the burden of this all on my shoulders... I take to heart the comments that are like I''m trying to make this go on forever which I absolutely am not, at least not now. I wanted this done months ago... I told myself I was okay with this process because I didn''t like the alternative. And for the most part I have been okay with the process, I just need it done. I am done. I feel tapped.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 8/3/2007 2:10:49 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
Thank you Curio - your post was very helpful to me. I think some are even more frustrated with this experience than I am LOL

My gut still wants Ocean to do my ring. This is true. But I need it done. I feel so invested with Ocean and it isn''t for nothing. People can make fun of the relationship all they want and I know this is a reason ocean wanted it all kept off the boards. I needed this exchange though. I needed to get some perspective. I see the downside to putting it all out there, but I also see the benefit and sometimes you need to let it all hang out, the good the bad and the ugly, so you can separate them from one another and have a good sense of what you want to do.

One of the things that I keep going back to - and as an artist you may appreciate this... is that in some ways Ocean knows what I want better than I know what I want. I feel okay with giving her the bones and letting her flesh them out, but sometimes the deviation is too far and I think the ONE thing that kicks my ass here more than anything else is that I know if I say, ''I can''t live with this, I really want it to be like that'' it could set us back weeks, months. THAT is the part that has me tied up. Working with an artist isn''t a disappointment in itself... but feeling once again like the end isn''t in sight just makes me feel on edge.

Perhaps I am totally out of line here. Part of me feels like I am - that I never should have brought it here.... but another part of me feels relieved because I''ve needed to say this for a long time and got to the point where I thought I''d explode. Not speaking up along the way was probably not wise... but I''m trying really hard right now to forgive myself for being honest and not being wise... its ridiculous, but I feel guilty for it all. I feel guilty for not speaking up, I feel guilty for speaking up, I feel guilty that this is all my fault, I feel guilty for taking the burden of this all on my shoulders... I take to heart the comments that are like I''m trying to make this go on forever which I absolutely am not, at least not now. I wanted this done months ago... I told myself I was okay with this process because I didn''t like the alternative. And for the most part I have been okay with the process, I just need it done. I am done. I feel tapped.

Woman, the part I highlighted has more baloney than Oscar Meyer.

You KNOW WHAT YOU WANT. Pure and simple. If you read all your past posts and tell me that you don''t, I''ll show you a blind woman.

I''m not frustrated with your experience. I''m frustrated with YOU. And I do not mean that in a malicious way, truly I do not. You say you need it done. That you are done. That you are tapped. Well, then...

- Call Ocean. Say "Hi Ocean, this is Sara. I really adore you as a person, but I think I have come to the conclusion that I need to take this project elsewhere."
- Get diamond back.
- Send diamond to Qwest.
- Get ring in 3 weeks.
- Take all sorts of pics for SMTR forum, including all kinds of photoshops marked up with faces, hopefully smiling, grinning cheek to cheek ones.
- Accept all the "oohs" and "aahs" and smile smugly to yourself that you managed to SHUT TRAVELINGGAL UP!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 8/3/2007 2:19:38 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 8/3/2007 2:10:49 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
Thank you Curio - your post was very helpful to me. I think some are even more frustrated with this experience than I am LOL

My gut still wants Ocean to do my ring. This is true. But I need it done. I feel so invested with Ocean and it isn''t for nothing. People can make fun of the relationship all they want and I know this is a reason ocean wanted it all kept off the boards. I needed this exchange though. I needed to get some perspective. I see the downside to putting it all out there, but I also see the benefit and sometimes you need to let it all hang out, the good the bad and the ugly, so you can separate them from one another and have a good sense of what you want to do.

One of the things that I keep going back to - and as an artist you may appreciate this... is that in some ways Ocean knows what I want better than I know what I want. I feel okay with giving her the bones and letting her flesh them out, but sometimes the deviation is too far and I think the ONE thing that kicks my ass here more than anything else is that I know if I say, ''I can''t live with this, I really want it to be like that'' it could set us back weeks, months. THAT is the part that has me tied up. Working with an artist isn''t a disappointment in itself... but feeling once again like the end isn''t in sight just makes me feel on edge.

Perhaps I am totally out of line here. Part of me feels like I am - that I never should have brought it here.... but another part of me feels relieved because I''ve needed to say this for a long time and got to the point where I thought I''d explode. Not speaking up along the way was probably not wise... but I''m trying really hard right now to forgive myself for being honest and not being wise... its ridiculous, but I feel guilty for it all. I feel guilty for not speaking up, I feel guilty for speaking up, I feel guilty that this is all my fault, I feel guilty for taking the burden of this all on my shoulders... I take to heart the comments that are like I''m trying to make this go on forever which I absolutely am not, at least not now. I wanted this done months ago... I told myself I was okay with this process because I didn''t like the alternative. And for the most part I have been okay with the process, I just need it done. I am done. I feel tapped.

Woman, the part I highlighted has more baloney than Oscar Meyer.

You KNOW WHAT YOU WANT. Pure and simple. If you read all your past posts and tell me that you don''t, I''ll show you a blind woman.

I''m not frustrated with your experience. I''m frustrated with YOU. And I do not mean that in a malicious way, truly I do not. You say you need it done. That you are done. That you are tapped. Well, then...

- Call Ocean. Say ''Hi Ocean, this is Sara. I really adore you as a person, but I think I have come to the conclusion that I need to take this project elsewhere.''
- Get diamond back.
- Send diamond to Qwest.
- Get ring in 3 weeks.
- Take all sorts of pics for SMTR forum, including all kinds of photoshops marked up with faces, hopefully smiling, grinning cheek to cheek ones.
- Accept all the ''oohs'' and ''aahs'' and smile smugly to yourself that you managed to SHUT TRAVELINGGAL UP!

I don''t take what you say maliciously... I know you guys genuinely want what is best for me, preferrably as soon as possible LOL I know this has been a long road, and I''ve tried not to bring a lot of drama here, really. I know people who are mouthing off (me) can be very frustrating to other people. I''m frustrated with myself. I feel bad I put this all off on you guys, but I also needed to work through some of this and no longer felt I could on my own. I really do appreciate all of the comments in this thread, no matter what they said.... kicks in the ass with grins on faces are always welcome LOL I think more than anything I needed to know it was okay to terminate this and go elsewhere. I''m damned determined no matter which way I go that I will have this done by the end of this month. I refuse to have this going on for even a day over a year since I bought my stone. And that is Aug 30 I think.

 

[diamondfan]

Sarah, I have loosely followed some of the ring threads and have noted how excited you were with the stone. I did not really realize that this was going on. And I can totally understand being indecisive and wanting it to be perfect. I am about to undertake building a new house and am having some major anxiety attacks about the work involved, even with experts on board to help me. You are trying to respect Ocean as an artist, and while I think jewelry is art to an extent, I think you are paralyzing yourself needlessly. I cannot redo my house once I commit and build it unless I want to incur a ton of costs, and as this will be my last home I want it right. But this has me a bit confused. Is she trying to reinvent the wheel? It would seem, to me, and of course I am not a designer, that she takes your ideas and comments and wishes and comes up with something. You either like it or you do not. If you do not, you tell her what you do not like and try to go from there. For a ring, as much as I had a vision I think I would have lost mondo patience by now. Honestly, putting aside whatever delays were not in your control and the good faith you had in the process, by now I would feel like, Ocean, your are not painting the Sistine Chapel. I know you want to FEEL it but I need to WEAR it. So, either we can agree and you can start, or we need to part company. And you can still like and respect her in the process. I am not sure about her side of things, and do not know her creative process, but time I do understand, and if I wanted it on my finger I would have pulled the plug. A baby can be created in the length of time it is taking. And let me pose a question, and this is not meant to be flippant. If you finally give the go ahead, and or you go elsewhere, as much as you want it to be perfect, is it really the end of the world and not fixable if you are less than happy later on?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/2/2007 11:57:54 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

I wanted to share the process from day one, but it was requested of me to keep it off the boards, so by discussing it here I feel hugely disloyal and awful about that.... but on the other hand I am a consumer, this is a consumer forum, and I have reached a point where I would like the opinions of others in this.

I was at albertson''s today, I took a friend to get a passport picture. I know the girl behind the counter fairly well, I''m pretty friendly and talk to everyone... so we get there and I notice she keeps saying to us - let me get these people taken care of. And I thought well... on the one hand she''ll spend extra time with us making sure its a good picture because she knows me... on the other hand we aren''t dealt with immediately because there is a friendly assumption that we''ll be okay to wait while she acts professionally for the others who come into the line.

And then I realized to some extent this is the same situation as with Ocean. I know she''s putting a lot of extra of herself into this, but on the other hand I can be put off.

And it isn''t that I want to leave the forum.... it is that I need this whole ring/process to NOT be quite so central to my attention anymore. I have this 15k+ stone sitting out there somewhere that I haven''t seen for 5 months and all of the money aside, the time is just.... day to day I think I can take it another day another week another few weeks.... I asked that this be done by my anniversary and that was over a month ago. Truth be told she said it would be done within 10 days of her coming back from vacation and I told everyone a month because I *knew*. I''d seen a deadline like that pass before more than once. And I''ve always been understanding. If I approve everything and she makes it now I might have it by the end of the month.... but if I''m really honest with myself, the flourishes she''s added to the ring are still beyond what I really want and to drag her back to the drawing board AGAIN would cost at least a month or two, realistically. I feel like I''ve begun agreeing to things to get it overwith.

As for my stone being inspiration you have no idea how much that makes me happy. I love my stone, but I still suffer from ''it isn''t ACA'' LOL I talked to Brian a couple days ago and he thought my stone looked wonderful in the pics and IS and ASET etc and he told me ''its a fancy'' but the future physicist in me knows there can be an ideal even for oblong and anything less than that could be considered too much ''character'' LOL But oh well, who can measure love in terms of brilliance anyway?

Also - I miss my stone like I cannot even say.... it was so hard sending it off.... I sent it off march 1st. I have trouble remembering it ''live''.

Bingo.

And I''m sorry, after ALL this time there should be no need to go back to the drawing board again! We''ve spent WAY too much time there as it is. Heck, is there even any chalk left??!

Sara, what really, really bugs me about all this (regardless of who is and isn''t at fault here), is that you have gone all these years without a diamond ring. You chose to wait until you could get what you wanted. You found your stone (which btw, is gorgeous and you, so quit getting hung up on "ACA"), figured out what you wanted in a setting and set off. What should have been an extremely exciting, happy event, has turned into this. And in my humble opinion, it was all SO unnecessary.

Please, cut your losses and move on. And my personal suggestion, don''t have the stone sent to you, have it sent directly to Pete, who can actually "git her done".

 

[rainbowtrout]

Cehra, this sounds quite frustrating. I do have a slightly tangential question: why on earth were you pressured not to post about the situation? It IS a consumer board, I have seen critiques of Whiteflash posted, etc. There are certain unspoken "restrictions" on how far you can critique a PS vendor/what is fair, but to be asked not to post about it at all?? Odd.


I have not followed the situation but it sounds like the two of you cannot come to a design understanding, period--and that you''ve been unwilling to be firm enough/crystal clear enough with this Ocean person, probably because you have a mixed personal/business relationship. It can be tough to lay down the law with someone you consider a friend.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 8/3/2007 7:15:40 AM
Author: Ellen



Please, cut your losses and move on. And my personal suggestion, don''t have the stone sent to you, have it sent directly to Pete, who can actually ''git her done''.

cehra, please stop beating yourself up over this, I agree with those who have said it doesn''t really matter whose fault it is, you commissioned a job with deadlines that were not met and I think you really do repect her artisitic nature and even tried to convince yourself that you could accept whatever she decided to do when really that just isn''t true. I can point you back to old threads with the very specicic details you have for this ring, with your own personal meaning attached to it.

about the ACA doubts...I think many times the grass is always greener. I second guess my decision for a round all the time and keep thinking maybe some of my own setting issues were b/c deep down I really wanted a cushion. Your stone is fabulous and from what I know of you on these boards, I don''t think your a *round* gal, definitley the fancy cushion is *you*..once you get your ring, i think all of your doubts will dissappear..

and, 100000% agree with ellen, have your stone send directly to Quest and then you''ll have your ring in 3 weeks. bringing home for a visit would be a very bad idea in my opinion...

hang in ther women!! you are going to have that ring by the end of the month if you move on this today!!!

 

[Pandora II]

As a designer, my feelings are as follows:

For my own collections - my feelings are paramount and I have to be happy with work that bears my name.

For commissions - ultimately the client is king:

If I don''t like things aesthetically I might try to steer them in another direction.
If what they want is technically impossible I will tell them that.
However it is far better for my reputation that a client has a design that they are thrilled with, even if I wouldn''t be seen dead in it; than that they have what I consider to be a great design which they always feel slightly unhappy with.

If you went in with a vision - the designers job is to bring that vision to life in the best possible way, but remaining true to the your ideas.

If you have no real idea of what you want and ideas are being thrown about - it will take a lot, lot longer and you need to be very intune with that particular designers style.

If you want a definite design of your own - you need a benchman not a designer.

I think you need to assess which of these categories you fall into and how you need to proceed. From your posts I feel that you are still wanting your initial ideas but are scared of upsetting Ocean, and/or feel that because you are not a ''designer'' that either you should bow to greater knowledge or have started doubting your own creative thoughts.

On the whole designers are used to critiscm - it comes with the territory - and you should be able to seperate your feelings from what is ultimately a service contract. The most difficult thing to deal with is a client who won''t be firm about their opinion.

Not sure if this helps at all but thought I''d throw it out there.

Don''t feel bad about talking to us about this - I don''t see it as a criticism of Wink or Ocean, but someone who is looking for help in sorting out their feelings and priorities on a project?

 

[Joolskie]

Cehra... I have been following this journey you have been on. It seems to me that perhaps the balance between art and business has simply shifted too far to one side.

I have worked as a copywriter for many years. During my time spent working at ad agencies, the graphic designers and I worked together to create materials that would best represent our clients. Now, we were truly the experts when it came to what words, images, colors, tone and over theme would work best. But our clients were our clients. We were being paid to do a job for them and to make them happy. If the client really felt that bright, neon green combined with chartreuse would make their ad stand out from the pack... well, we would perhaps try to steer them in another direction. But if the client truly insisted that this was their vision, we would find a way to make it work with what they wanted. Because at the end of the day, it was a business transaction. And even if the completed material did not meet what the designer and I felt would truly have been best... as long as the client was happy, we would consider it a job well done.

Now, every client is different. Some would allow us complete freedom to do what we felt would work best. Others wanted to have much more input on the creative process. And when you choose to earn a living by providing services for people, part of that is working with all different personalities. The key is to recognize what personality you are working with and go from there. It has always been my feeling that I can work on creative projects privately to really express my creative self. But business is business and requires give and take on both sides.

Talk to Ocean. You obviously both like each other on a personal level. Which is cool. But if the business aspect of your relationship is not going where you, the client, wishes for it to go... there are decisions to be made. And you have every right to make what decisions you want to make. It is your money, your diamond and your ring. At the end of the day, this is a business deal. Pure and simple.

There are no wrong decisions here. And I am confident that whatever the outcome, it can be handled in a professional and respectful way that leaves no hard feelings on either end.

 

[february2003bride]

Cehra-

First, I am so sorry that this has dragged out for so long! I worked with Quest on a solitare and I had exactly one appointment with Pete who totally "got it" and was promised for it to be done in 4 weeks. How long did it actually take? TWO weeks! I worked with Bob at WhiteFlash on my three stone- it took a few e-mails and a change in hte CAD image and how long did it actually take from the day they recieved my stone? 10 days!

I''ve been following your journey with your setting, and I have to be hoenst- each time I''ve read a post about your ring and the process you''ve been going through with Ocean, I think that you are looking for for a friend to just be able to talk too, rather than an actual ring. I also understand wanting to have a certain meaning, attachment or...story with an engagement ring. But I really think what you are trying to attach to your ring is to the extreme.

You know what you want (and that''s bullsh!t that Ocean knows better than you!), get your diamond back, take it to Quest and get that setting DONE already!

I''m curious on one thing- reading your posts it jumps out at me that Ocean isn''t seeing exactly what you want. What happens when you get your ring and it''s more what SHE envisioned that what you did?

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 8/2/2007 6:08:12 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 8/2/2007 5:59:47 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Without knowing all the circumstances, all I can say is that this is taking what seems like a LONG time. Why is it taking so long anyway? Do you know?

Well there are personal reasons this had to be put off that it isn't my place to share and that would account for a good 6-8 weeks of this. And the first 8-9 weeks was her saying no this isn't going to work (really she just didn't like it mostly) and wanting to design me a ring from scratch and I went along for a while and then just coming to admit to myself, no - I really do still want my original So that's about 16 weeks blown right there. The rest has been negotiations.... she's a very creative woman and most of the negotiations have been me wanting to reign it in back to the original. I truly have NOT gone off on a creative spree changing everything. It's much more about how can she make this her own so that she can feel comfortable putting her name on it.

Sara, this is YOUR ring. Not hers. If she wants a ring she can make one for herself and stamp her name on the OUTside of it, for all that.

Frankly, I would be livid. For a jeweler to take this freaking long to make a ring is just...ridiculous. You were supposed to have the ring completed in July, and that was a very, very generous time allowance. Now it's August and you don't even have a wax???? Has anything actually been done? I'm inclined to think a refund may be in order. I'll tell you what, I'm totally underwhelmed by your experience with this designer.

ETA: Your being asked not to air this on a consumer forum concerns me. Many of us have posted our experiences here -- it is a CONSUMER board. It really does seem to me that you have been beyond patient. I can see that you have a very clear vision of what you want, so why won't someone make it for you? If it's really something that can't be structurally done, you are going to have to allow it to be changed. I'm going on the assumption that you are reasonable in that direction. If not, well then, get with the program, girlie!

Seriously, I think you've waited a long time.

 

[Sundial]

Cehra I just want to say that I am sorry that things haven''t turned out as you had hoped with your ring project. I feel your frustration and hope that you are able to work things out whether it be setting a deadline for Ocean or moving on to someone else.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 8/3/2007 8:53:54 AM
Author: february2003bride
I have to be hoenst- each time I've read a post about your ring and the process you've been going through with Ocean, I think that you are looking for for a friend to just be able to talk too, rather than an actual ring.

Looking for a friend, co-conspirator, and some kind of transcendent experience that's got to be big enough to fill some other kind of void (which is what you should *really* be questioning yourself about, once you send the stone to Pete). The phrase "she's exactly what I needed & more than I deserve" kinda stands out for me amongst your previous swooning posts re: this "magical & sacred" process. I don't intend this as mockery AT ALL. I'm a creative professional. I create FOR A LIVING. I live near WOODSTOCK NEW YORK and I've never heard the degree of mystical mumbo jumbo mixed up in what is ultimately a BIZ TRANSACTION in my entire life. Toughen up!!! Get a GRIP!!! Get your head out of the lovey-dovey clouds and see this for what it is -- a MISMATCH! Ooops -- you thought one thing but it didn't work out. MOVE ON. You're taking this breakup harder (seemingly) than some Ladies In Waiting who've had their boyfriends MOVE OUT, or ACTUALLY BE GAY.

Here's the big question for me though -- why this now ... when you're supposedly 10 DAYS AWAY FROM BEING FINISHED. Why *all of a sudden* did you realize it's not what you really want & you have to "go back to the drawing board" ... THAT's what makes me think you might POSSIBLY, SUBCONCIOUSLY be sabotaging the process. So it WON'T end. So you WON'T be dissapointed (as is ALWAYS the freakin case -- at least a little bit) ... and WON'T have to find something new to obsess over and Magicify.

Instead of concentrating so much on how to get what you really want ... why not take a few moments, days, weeks to PREPARE YOURSELF for maybe NOT loving the ring as much as you WISH YOU WOULD. Disassembling this fantasy about the ring to end all rings .. that picture in your head ... etc etc etc. I am sorry but it's GET REAL TIME. So

GET

REAL

(and I say this with love & affection)

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Bottom line: She who pays the piper calls the tune. If you really like this designer and want to continue working with her on your project, it''s time to put your foot down and say "This is what I want. No variations. If you are not comfortable with it, just say so, and I will take my stone to someone who will make my ring the way I want it made."

 

[crown1]

hi cehra! i know from reading your posts that you want to be friends with most people and have some kind of personal relationship. in business that is not always going to happen. i do not mean to be harsh or unkind but i do think you would end up being happier if you could separate polite business negotiations from deep personal friendships or connections.

it is not my place to tell you how to conduct your life or business just an observation that may or may not be correct. if pete will make what you want i would let him do so. i hope this reaches some resolution quickly. good luck! i have not read every response but most. if i missed something crucial please disregard my post.

 

[chrono]

Date: 8/2/2007 5:56:38 PM
Author: hlmr
I was half way through reading this post before I realized it wasn't your marriage you were talking about.

99% of all problems between people are a direct result of miscommunication. I hope you are able to communicate your wants and needs to Wink and Ocean and have them understand what you want, so you can get that ring on your finger and move on with your life.

Ditto! For a while there I was concerned that you were venting about your marriage. Phew!

Cehra,
Please talk to Wink and Ocean about this. They have every right to know that you are concerned about the delays, lack of progress, new estimate (more $$$) and given a chance to fix this. If it cannot be resolved to your satisfaction, then it is time to abandon ship and move on. I'm sorry that this is giving you so much grief.

ETA
I just finished reading all the updates. I still say it is time to move on because it looks like you are STILL mulling over the design!!! At this stage, it should already be a given. Cut the $500 loss, give the design to Quest, get the completed ring back in 3 weeks, post the pictures, and we will all ooh and aah over it. As much as I love Wink and you adore Ocean, it is still a business transaction and YOU have to be happy and excited all the way through the process.

 

[Mara]

Date: 8/3/2007 10:30:02 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 8/3/2007 8:53:54 AM
Author: february2003bride
I have to be hoenst- each time I've read a post about your ring and the process you've been going through with Ocean, I think that you are looking for for a friend to just be able to talk too, rather than an actual ring.

Looking for a friend, co-conspirator, and some kind of transcendent experience that's got to be big enough to fill some other kind of void (which is what you should *really* be questioning yourself about, once you send the stone to Pete). The phrase 'she's exactly what I needed & more than I deserve' kinda stands out for me amongst your previous swooning posts re: this 'magical & sacred' process. I don't intend this as mockery AT ALL. I'm a creative professional. I create FOR A LIVING. I live near WOODSTOCK NEW YORK and I've never heard the degree of mystical mumbo jumbo mixed up in what is ultimately a BIZ TRANSACTION in my entire life. Toughen up!!! Get a GRIP!!! Get your head out of the lovey-dovey clouds and see this for what it is -- a MISMATCH! Ooops -- you thought one thing but it didn't work out. MOVE ON. You're taking this breakup harder (seemingly) than some Ladies In Waiting who've had their boyfriends MOVE OUT, or ACTUALLY BE GAY.

Here's the big question for me though -- why this now ... when you're supposedly 10 DAYS AWAY FROM BEING FINISHED. Why *all of a sudden* did you realize it's not what you really want & you have to 'go back to the drawing board' ... THAT's what makes me think you might POSSIBLY, SUBCONCIOUSLY be sabotaging the process. So it WON'T end. So you WON'T be dissapointed (as is ALWAYS the freakin case -- at least a little bit) ... and WON'T have to find something new to obsess over and Magicify.

This is along the lines of what I was thinking as well....

Cehra I totally get the vibe from all your posts that you want to be buddies with people, talk to people, feel them, you seem really emotional and invested in a lot of what goes on. This project does baffle me from an understanding perspective, mostly because I have a very hard time understanding others that are not like me.

I don't attach any sort of mystical hoo-ha to my rings or jewelry or whatever. You definitely do...waxing poetic about the stone and then the design and heart and soul about the ring, etc etc. I vaguely recall some post about the curve of a dragons wing or something that really had me scratching my head in confusion. I stopped reading your posts a long time ago about your ring because it's like the neverending story and there's never a ring and quite honestly, I don't understand people who talk about a ring for a year but don't actually HAVE it in a year. I'm really deadline driven..it keeps me fairly sane in a world of chaos.

I want to see a ring. MrsSalvo, are you going to ever get your ring?!?! You guys are killing me.

From my uber-practical bottom line, this is a RING. It's just a material item. Sure it's pretty but how much does it really need to be? I also feel as others do that you might be looking for something 'more' out of this than just your ring finished. A new buddy, a heart and soul connection? There is a void it seems...you floated into this forum and you clamped onto it like a liferaft, racking up posts faster than I can eat M&M's (which is pretty fast). I easily know how people can get sucked into PS...hello still here after 5 years? That'd be me. But nowadays I tend to lurk more than I used to simply because I don't have the time or inclination to participate the way I used to....and I don't really have much in the way of projects on the horizon right now. I also have learned enough about my tastes to know that I don't need that much input from forum members in order to get a project completed. But to deco's point I wonder if there's like some internal sabotage going on you don't even realize...to fill some sort of void. But yeah, so here's the lack of understanding part for me.

I just don't get all the ANGST around this project. It sounds so frustrating, honestly isn't this supposed to be a positive process? It doesn't seem like it's that way for ANYONE right now, not you, not your stone, not Ocean, not Wink, not PSers who are dying to see this thing and certainly not your hand who wants to be wearing the DARN RING ALREADY.

I agree that there needs to be some scrutiny of why this is happening to you again a SECOND time, maybe it's more you than you realize...but in the meantime while you do all that soul searching (if you really even care, some people don't want to look within themselves and that's fine)...I think you should cut your losses and take your stone and just get it done somewhere else. Why are you so worried about what Ocean or anyone else is going to think? This is your ring, your project. If it's just not working, it's just not working.

BUT then you should really question if you can find someone to give you what you really want. Double entendre there too. Because if not you'll just end up in the same process with someone else. *I* don't even understand what you want, I question others understanding it, seems like you might be eternally unsatisfied because is this thing really going to live up to such lofty expectations? Your stone is really lovely, set it already. WEAR THE RING. I can't count all the posts that have happened about your ring, your expectations, design help, this and that. At some point you either need to just get it done or put the stone in a safe deposit box and take a break.

 

[TravelingGal]

I digested some more posts this morning and the new day diminished some of yesterday''s frustration with your situation.

Cehra, obviously not all PS members are alike. I find myself nodding while reading posts like Deco''s and Mara''s because I think more like they do. But that doesn''t mean we''re "right", nor does it invalidate how you feel. I know you''re taking a bit of a beating here and I want to mention again that I DO think you are a sweet and caring person. But sweet and caring people can sometimes get run over. A lot.

If all this "journey" was working out for you, I wouldn''t say a thing. Some people want BAM BAM BAM and others want to take it slow and really figure out the process. But it is not working for you, no matter how much you want it to. As Mara said, if you REALLY want a ring, you have to step it up. If not, I do agree that you should put the diamond in a safe deposit box and step away for a long while.

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 8/3/2007 10:30:02 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 8/3/2007 8:53:54 AM

Author: february2003bride

I have to be hoenst- each time I''ve read a post about your ring and the process you''ve been going through with Ocean, I think that you are looking for for a friend to just be able to talk too, rather than an actual ring.

Looking for a friend, co-conspirator, and some kind of transcendent experience that''s got to be big enough to fill some other kind of void (which is what you should *really* be questioning yourself about, once you send the stone to Pete). The phrase ''she''s exactly what I needed & more than I deserve'' kinda stands out for me amongst your previous swooning posts re: this ''magical & sacred'' process. I don''t intend this as mockery AT ALL. I''m a creative professional. I create FOR A LIVING. I live near WOODSTOCK NEW YORK and I''ve never heard the degree of mystical mumbo jumbo mixed up in what is ultimately a BIZ TRANSACTION in my entire life. Toughen up!!! Get a GRIP!!! Get your head out of the lovey-dovey clouds and see this for what it is -- a MISMATCH! Ooops -- you thought one thing but it didn''t work out. MOVE ON. You''re taking this breakup harder (seemingly) than some Ladies In Waiting who''ve had their boyfriends MOVE OUT, or ACTUALLY BE GAY.


Here''s the big question for me though -- why this now ... when you''re supposedly 10 DAYS AWAY FROM BEING FINISHED. Why *all of a sudden* did you realize it''s not what you really want & you have to ''go back to the drawing board'' ... THAT''s what makes me think you might POSSIBLY, SUBCONCIOUSLY be sabotaging the process. So it WON''T end. So you WON''T be dissapointed (as is ALWAYS the freakin case -- at least a little bit) ... and WON''T have to find something new to obsess over and Magicify.


Instead of concentrating so much on how to get what you really want ... why not take a few moments, days, weeks to PREPARE YOURSELF for maybe NOT loving the ring as much as you WISH YOU WOULD. Disassembling this fantasy about the ring to end all rings .. that picture in your head ... etc etc etc. I am sorry but it''s GET REAL TIME. So


GET


REAL


(and I say this with love & affection)

As always, deco has taken the words out of my head/mouth! So I''ll just say DITTO to the above. I''ll add that it seems that despite all the new-agey love fest talk, in the end you DO NOT really want the changes Ocean has made. Why on earth would you let her dictate what your ring should be like if you already know what you wanted?

But more than that, Cehra, stop POSTING about this and DO something about it. Take ACTION. TODAY.

ETA: You will be pleased to know that this is my last comment on this subject. I do hope you will take control of your situation and get your ring done and on your finger, where it should be.

 

[FireGoddess]

Yes, I''m confused now. But I confuse easily sometimes.

The ring can be ready in TEN DAYS. Not a month or two - a week and a half. What''s the problem? Is the problem that you now don''t want to go forward with this design anymore??? Cuz you''re on the home stretch here, and I''m really not getting this ''back to the drawing board'' talk.