Emerald cut help

[SN403]

Hi everyone -

I'm looking for an Emerald Cut diamond and would love some thoughts on which factors are most important. I'll most likely put the diamond in a platinum pave setting.

- Color: How meaningful is the difference between a G, H, and I when looking at the stone in a setting? I have seen some sites that say to stick with a G/H or better for EC, but have been told by someone that an I is fine. There seems to be a big price difference, and I could probably get a bigger size stone with an I color, so curious for any guidance
- Cut: This has probably been the toughest for me to know how to judge. I have seen the table on the pricescope wiki. Should I just be formulaic in looking for diamonds within these ranges? Or can diamonds outside these ranges look great? Are depth and table the most important -- and what ranges would people suggest staying within for these? I don't think I have seen the crown % on websites
- Clarity: I am thinking VS2 or better. Does that make sense? How meaningful is the difference between VVS1/2 and VS2?
- Dimensions: I have noticed that diamonds with similar carat sizes at times have really different overhead surface areas (length and width) -- even when the depth is really similar for the two. Is it recommended to look for diamonds with more surface area from the top, or are you trading something else off in the process?
- For Symmetry / Polish, how much do these matter? Is a "Good" rating OK?

Any other key things I should focus on?

Below are some of the stones I have liked so far. Any feedback on these or other recommendations would be really appreciated!

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5143502-2.11-carat-Emerald-diamond-H-color-VS2-clarity.aspx
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5142858-2.01-carat-Emerald-diamond-H-color-VVS1-clarity.aspx
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5163693-2.13-carat-Emerald-diamond-H-color-VVS2-clarity.aspx
If I go for an I color: http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD04369482?pt=setform&track=DiamondSearchEC

Thanks for the help!

 

[Gypsy]

Please read my posts (second half of the first page) about Emerald cuts and shopping for them:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-online-retailer-for-a-custom-setting.203660/#post-3706499#p3706499']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-online-retailer-for-a-custom-setting.203660/#post-3706499#p3706499[/URL]

Starting with this post, and then the subsequent posts in that thread okay?

Emerald cuts:
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king. With fancies though (anything other than a round brilliant), that is a little complicated. But no other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.

There really is no other way to determine if you have a good emerald cut is to see images of the stones, and then you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.

That's what an ASET image does. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance Please read.
And ASET shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return That is why you won't see us recommending vendors like Blue Nile, as they do not provide images or ASET images for their diamonds. James Allen and Good Old Gold do this. So do Brian Gavin, B2C and Whiteflash and High Performance Diamonds. ERD does too, for stones they source for you.



HORRIBLE ASET (Grade F):



Great ASET (Grade A):



Also helpful are videos and GOG and JA have videos. So you can see the stone in motion and see how the facets flash on and off.

Also read these:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/choosing-an-emerald-cut-advice-needed.203072/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/choosing-an-emerald-cut-advice-needed.203072/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-on-emerald-cut-purchase-need-to-finalize-this-week.203560/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-on-emerald-cut-purchase-need-to-finalize-this-week.203560/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/trying-to-choose-between-4-emerald-stones.203819/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/trying-to-choose-between-4-emerald-stones.203819/[/URL]

 

[Gypsy]

Good news for you is, the buyer in this thread ended up buying a pre-owned Tiffany ring instead of a new ring.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-on-emerald-cut-purchase-need-to-finalize-this-week.203560/page-3']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-on-emerald-cut-purchase-need-to-finalize-this-week.203560/page-3[/URL]

And that means the two gorgeous stones we found for him will be available for sale again in 24-48 hours!
Both these have been vetted. And both are lovely choices. I have a preference for the longer thinner one with more red in the ASET (first one I list below) but the other one got great reviews by the gemologist.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-305877


and
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.02-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-323736



They were in the 17k-20k range price wise. Price will be listed again when they are available.

 

[SN403]

Thanks Gypsy! Right after I put up my post, I noticed the EC post where you had those two JA diamonds and read through that -- can't believe I didn't notice that post sooner! The one question I had was whether I can sacrifice some color (to an H -- looks like you don't recommend I in your other posts, but let me know if I'm wrong) to get a bigger stone?

 

[Gypsy]

Good.
Now, about I color.

I have seen a lot of diamonds. And I particularly love step cuts so I tend to gravitate toward them in stores. And many of our members have lower colored step cuts in the I-K range. And I have seen some GORGEOUS warm step cuts.

Step cuts have FAR fewer facets than brilliant cuts like round brilliants. And they are MUCH harder to find of excellent make with fabulous light return.

Why is that important when we are discussing color?

Light return can mask a lot of body color and the fast facet movement of smaller facets helps keep your eye focused on the light, not the body. That's why so many ideal cut round J's just face up STARTLINGLY white. Emerald cuts are quieter and less flashy, and much more readily show both color and inclusions. That's why to be conservative I usually don't go below G even on step cuts when they are being purchased for SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE BUYER, UNLESS I can't find a nice stone in G, then I will go to H. Most of the time H is fine is the cut is good on the stone. Though I can notice some tint in some H's.

And most people believe that tint=bad in diamonds. Which is just not true. MANY people who know diamonds are very HAPPY with the trade off of slight tint, or even HEAVY tint for size. Or just tint because they like it. But these are people who have LOOKED at H-I-J-K diamonds and are buying for themselves and know what THEY like and can be happy with.

I'll never forget my first J ideal round. It was a very large stone worn by one of our members here and when I saw it at a GTG I was floored that it was a J. It was so bright.

And one of the PSers here in Nor Cal has a FREAKING AMAZING K color emerald that just captivates me when I see it. But it is not white the same way a round is. And stepcuts never are in those colors. They are a bit moodier. And IMO, they show reflected color more as well and are more influenced by what's around them. They can look BLINDINGLY white one minute and really tinted the next. And, I've seen J's step cuts that were more tinted than M OECs that I've seen in the same stores. A lot depends on the individual stone.

So for me, while I would happily hunt for an I-J-K for someone that wanted one, I tend to be super conservative on here BECAUSE most are being bought as a gift. And I want the wearer and recipient to be happy with their ring. And I can't know the color tolerances of the person you are buying for.

And color tolerances are personal. If you are buying for yourself. Tiffany carries I and has step cuts. So go and see an I color step cut and see if you like it. If you, I'll happily find a nice I for you, or whatever color you want. But if you are one of those people that wants to surprise your lady with a ring, and don't want to go to see what her color tolerances are, etc. for fear of ruining a surprise, then I suggest you stick to H or higher to be conservative.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Here is a good video on emerald cuts and ASET images to help you learn a little about cut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ez7p6w_Rv8&list=UUEV7slr-i-VduBBnfv9MxhA&index=81

Good Old Gold helped me find and excellent asscher, and I would recommend them for any fancy cut since they really specialize in well cut stones with good light performance. As to color, my asscher is small and in a right hand ring and is H color. I can see a very slight tint but I think that is because the stone is small. I can handle I color in a larger stone (and maybe J in some cases). For some reason, the color appears more concentrated to me in smaller stones. But if you can find an H, I think that is a great choice!

 

[woofmama]

DS loved that GOG video. I watch their videos often & thought I had viewed most of the step cut ones, but missed that one.

OP I also have a K color EC. It is very bright and lively and no one has ever noticed the color. I'm not trying to sway you from a higher color for an engagement ring but think you'll be safe in the G-H-I range. I also had the pleasure of seeing the 2.00ct + K and it is gorgeous! Many of us have been very pleased with our I-J-K step cuts, and Psers are super picky.

 

[Gypsy]

Woofmama is the perfect example of a Pricescoper with a lower colored EC who is happy with her (gorgeous) stone. BUT she bought it herself, and she bought it from a vendor with a great return policy and got it in person BEFORE it was set to make sure she was content with the color.

I do think it is different when you are buying for another person.

 

[Lorelei]

Good.
Now, about I color.

I have seen a lot of diamonds. And I particularly love step cuts so I tend to gravitate toward them in stores. And many of our members have lower colored step cuts in the I-K range. And I have seen some GORGEOUS warm step cuts.

Step cuts have FAR fewer facets than brilliant cuts like round brilliants. And they are MUCH harder to find of excellent make with fabulous light return.

Why is that important when we are discussing color?

Light return can mask a lot of body color and the fast facet movement of smaller facets helps keep your eye focused on the light, not the body. That's why so many ideal cut round J's just face up STARTLINGLY white. Emerald cuts are quieter and less flashy, and much more readily show both color and inclusions. That's why to be conservative I usually don't go below G even on step cuts when they are being purchased for SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE BUYER, UNLESS I can't find a nice stone in G, then I will go to H. Most of the time H is fine is the cut is good on the stone. Though I can notice some tint in some H's.

And most people believe that tint=bad in diamonds. Which is just not true. MANY people who know diamonds are very HAPPY with the trade off of slight tint, or even HEAVY tint for size. Or just tint because they like it. But these are people who have LOOKED at H-I-J-K diamonds and are buying for themselves and know what THEY like and can be happy with.

I'll never forget my first J ideal round. It was a very large stone worn by one of our members here and when I saw it at a GTG I was floored that it was a J. It was so bright.

And one of the PSers here in Nor Cal has a FREAKING AMAZING K color emerald that just captivates me when I see it. But it is not white the same way a round is. And stepcuts never are in those colors. They are a bit moodier. And IMO, they show reflected color more as well and are more influenced by what's around them. They can look BLINDINGLY white one minute and really tinted the next. And, I've seen J's step cuts that were more tinted than M OECs that I've seen in the same stores. A lot depends on the individual stone.

So for me, while I would happily hunt for an I-J-K for someone that wanted one, I tend to be super conservative on here BECAUSE most are being bought as a gift. And I want the wearer and recipient to be happy with their ring. And I can't know the color tolerances of the person you are buying for.

And color tolerances are personal. If you are buying for yourself. Tiffany carries I and has step cuts. So go and see an I color step cut and see if you like it. If you, I'll happily find a nice I for you, or whatever color you want. But if you are one of those people that wants to surprise your lady with a ring, and don't want to go to see what her color tolerances are, etc. for fear of ruining a surprise, then I suggest you stick to H or higher to be conservative.

Great post Gypsy and these are very important considerations with step cuts. It doesn't bother me at all but some can take on a hint of ' white wine spritzer' tone depending on the size and colour grade. I have seen some fantastic EC's with this feature but as Gyppers rightly mentions, this isn't for everyone and having an ICY WHITE diamond is paramount. H or higher for colour is a good place to start. As Gypsy says, we tend to be conservative here with things like colour grades, strong or very strong blue fluorescence unless we know the potential wearer is ok with these features.

 

[SN403]

Hi everyone --

Thanks again for your help before. I came across the below EC which I thought was potentially promising. I was wondering if I could get some opinions on this stone. I thought the ASET seemed pretty good, though wasn't sure if there was too much blue. Also, the picture of the actual stone has a brownish color, but looking at other pictures on this website of higher color stones they seem to have the same issue.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5142859-2.03-carat-Emerald-diamond-H-color-VVS1-clarity.aspx

Thanks!

 

[SJ3]

Im not an expert like the rest of the people on this board but that Aset does not look so great to me. There is a bunch of white there which is light leakage, and when its next to the blue which is blocked light in person it could look very dark and dull.

I just bought an EC and I love it but it does seem to take a lot more research and searching then some other cuts due to the steps. Here is my thread which has some helpful insights from the experts on this forum.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/emerald-cut-experts-weigh-in.203234/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/emerald-cut-experts-weigh-in.203234/[/URL]

Also I dont think you need a VVS1, I was stuck on that to before I started researching about cut. I went for a VS1 eye clean (which I never ever thought I would go below VVS2) because the cut was way better then the two VVS diamonds I was looking at.

I am kind of the reverse of yours VS1 but F color, but I think I could have gotten away with G as well.

 

[SN403]

Thanks SJ. Yeah I am more focused on VS1 / VS2, but this one seemed similarly priced. The ASET on this one is definitely no where near as nice as the ASET on yours!

 

[SJ3]

I hear ya. I would let others chime in, but that last one you sent, I would keep looking, there is so much white and blue in that aset.

 

[Gypsy]

Is there a reason you aren't just purchasing this one? http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-305877 It's gorgeous.

 

[SJ3]

Is there a reason you aren't just purchasing this one? http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-305877 It's gorgeous.

I agree! If that one was available when I bought mine it would have been a seriously hard choice.

 

[SN403]

That one was higher than what I had budgeted -- but I do agree it looks great.

 

[Gypsy]

Ok The H VVS is still a pass though.

 

[SN403]

Below are two stones I thought were promising on JA that are more in the range of what I was hoping to spend. I think they already put them on hold. I was wondering if these had potential and whether it would be worth getting an ASET complete. And if not, whether there were others that looked promising.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.02-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-306825
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.07-carat-i-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-316817

Hopefully my eye for this has gotten a little better...!

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[Gypsy]

They are worth getting an ASET. Not sure if the first one will have bright edges or dark ones.

 

[Lorelei]

Below are two stones I thought were promising on JA that are more in the range of what I was hoping to spend. I think they already put them on hold. I was wondering if these had potential and whether it would be worth getting an ASET complete. And if not, whether there were others that looked promising.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.02-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-306825
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.07-carat-i-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-316817

Hopefully my eye for this has gotten a little better...!

Thanks everyone for the help!

With Gypsy, these are definitely worth getting ASET, I prefer the second going by the video but it comes down to I colour and the possibility of warmth once again.

 

[SN403]

Below are the ASETs from JA. I have also pasted pictures of an option from a family friend who is a jeweler (it is the middle stone in the 3 stone setting below). The stone is an I VS1 with medium blue fluorescence, 65% table 68.7% depth. The pricing is more competitive than JA. I also have a video of the stone I am going to try to post somehow.

I think the first ASET clearly seems the best. Color gives me a little pause since I haven't seen it in person. I am also tempted by the non-JA diamond.

Would love your thoughts!

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.07-carat-i-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-316817


http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.31-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-314885


http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.02-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-306825


Other option (only the center stone) -- I realize it is really tough to tell from these pictures alone!

 

[Gypsy]

I love that first JA stone. It's lovely. The H did have the BLUE at the edges where I was worried. But that 2.07 I is lovely.

My recommendation? JA has a sixty day return policy and they pay return shipping. But the 2.07 I stone and have it shipped to you. Then take it in to the local jeweler and compare it side by side with their stone. That way you get an apples to apples comparison, on site and you can pick the stone that your eyes like the best. If the JA stone is the winner, great. If it is NOT, then you've lost nothing and can return for a full refund.

 

[SN403]

Below is a link to a video of the option from the store (under jewelry store lights). The I color I am interested in is in the 3 stone setting, the other was a G color he was showing me for comparison (and which actually would potentially be within my budget, though I didn't love the stone, wonder if others disagree). Let me know what you think.

https://vimeo.com/102964745

Thanks for the help and the recommendation Gypsy! However, I unfortunately wouldn't be able to order the JA stone to evaluate them side by side -- the jeweler is across the country from me, and I happened to be in town today to see it but likely won't be able to come back.

 

[Gypsy]

Here's my feeling. Get the JA stone. If you don't like it as much as you liked the other. Return it and buy the other.

 

[SN403]

One question on the setting: I want to do a thin pave band (probably V cut pave) with a simple 4 prong setting (no halo, no cathedral) similar to this: http://www.knoxjewelers.biz/products/design-2501. Do I need to do something hand-forged for a design like this? Are there any jewelers / websites people would recommend for something like this (or should I try well rated local jewelers)?

 

[Gypsy]

I don't recommend most local jewelers for pave. But I'm sure there are branded settings that you can get similar to that locally.

Where are you located?

A simple setting like that you could get from CAD and CAST vendors. http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/isabella-4-prong-empress-micro-pave-engagement-ring-bpid-234-18.html

 

[SN403]

Located in the San Francisco bay area

 

[Gypsy]

I was hoping you'd say that. I'm in the Bay Area as well.

Go to Joe Escobar in Campbell. They have an entire FLEET of settings. And last time I was there I was looking at settings very close to what you want, and I think they have 3 different ones to chose from.

Ask for Mia or Erik, but really... anyone there can give you great service.

 

[SN403]

One other option that just came in from WF that is an H. I am still a little nervous about the I color, and this H was in my budget. Curious for opinions on the ASET -- I thought the JA one was definitely better, and I would think going for the better light performer is more important than an additional grade of color.

Any other opinions would be really helpful!

 

[SN403]

I just spoke to the person from WF. She is saying that the really dark bars in the middle are "contrast" as opposed to light leakage. She said to refer to the IdealScope (where light leakage is white, not black?). She thought the ASET was actually pretty good and said you do want some contrast in the diamond. She wasn't sure if the JA one was clearly better or worse than this one.

I'm curious for other people's perspectives on this. If this diamond looks like a good light performer, I'd probably prefer it since the color is a little safer.