White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Questions

[TwinkleCootie]

Hi everyone. I am new to pricescope here so if I am asking a redundant question I apologize in advance. I just started looking for a diamond engagement ring for my girlfriend of 4+ years and decided to go the online shopping route. I have been browsing several websites including Blue Nile, James Allen, Zoara among others and noticed that the A Cut Above diamonds listed with White Flash and the Signature Collection with Brian Gavin are noticeably pricier than comparable GIA diamonds listed with other vendors.

For example, this 2 carat G Color VS2 with White Flash is listed at almost $35,000:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3157612.htm

A diamond with similar parameters with Blue Nile's Signature Ideal collection (2 carat, G, VS2, signature ideal) shows diamond prices ranging between $30.5k-$32.4k.

This 2 carat H Color VS2 with Brian Gavin is listed at over $29k:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.088-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104069928003

Similar diamonds with James Allen list between $23.4k to $24k.

Why are White Flash and Brian Gavin diamonds so much more expensive? Are these diamonds really superior to other more "plain vanilla" stones from Blue Nile or James Allen or is it because they are AGS diamonds which are pricier than GIA stones?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

They are top cut quality, hearts and arrows stones. Basically they are at the top of their class with the best cutting and light performance. Not everyone desires to have the best, but for those that do, these and other hearts and arrows diamonds are a perfect choice!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Read this: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL]

 

[TwinkleCootie]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Thanks for the replies.

Another question: Is there a reason ACA, Brian Gavin, Hearts on Fire and other "designer" diamonds all use AGS certs as opposed to GIA? I understand that AGS is supposed to have stricter standards for cut, but I hear that they are more lax than GIA on color and clarity. Can someone chime in or link me another thread that I can read?

 

[Gypsy]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

AGS is not laxer than GIA.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-grading-report

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamond-grading

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-vs-gia-ideal-cuts-and-prices-on-hearts-and-arrows.155558/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-vs-gia-ideal-cuts-and-prices-on-hearts-and-arrows.155558/[/URL]

 

[TwinkleCootie]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Thanks Gypsy.

So if I have a $25,000-$30,000 budget for a 2 carat stone is there any reason I should be going with GIA as opposed to AGS or can someone show me a GIA stone that is just as nice as a ACA or BGD Signature diamond?

Also, is White Flash or Brian Gavin the best place to find a "super ideal" cut or can someone recommend me another option?

 

[Gypsy]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Thanks Gypsy.

So if I have a $25,000-$30,000 budget for a 2 carat stone is there any reason I should be going with GIA as opposed to AGS or can someone show me a GIA stone that is just as nice as a ACA or BGD Signature diamond?

Also, is White Flash or Brian Gavin the best place to find a "super ideal" cut or can someone recommend me another option?

Regrading your first question. Did you read my responses in this thread? [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL] You don't NEED hearts and arrows. If you want them, then you want them coupled with ideal light performance. And AGS is going to be the best to evaluate that. Ideal performance is the part you don't want to let go of. But you can get AGS0 stones that aren't hearts and arrows and might be a good option for you.


Second, if you want a super ideal. Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, Infinity Diamonds (High Performance Diamonds), Good Old Gold and Hearts on Fire would be where I'd look.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Here is an AGS 0 without the Hearts and Arrows:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.08-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-249064
I think this is a nice stone.


Here's another and if this one is eyeclean (possible) I'd be ALL OVER this one:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.27-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-310791


You would get an idealscope of any stones you were interested in. BUT at JA you are allowed only 3 idealscopes. So... I'd limit myself to that.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Here's another and if this one is eyeclean (possible) I'd be ALL OVER this one:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.27-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-310791

The stone above is a GIA I SI1 stone.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Hearts and Arrows options. I'm not a hearts and arrows nit picker so I don't know if these are perfectly perfect. There are people that are, and if that matters to you I'm sure we can find someone to come over here and nitpick them for you.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12329/
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.02-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-299955 G color.
http://highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=1241
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.018-h-si1-round-diamond-bfg-11822 Advance purchase one might be a good value. The price is nice. Brain is Super Anal. His Signature Line is impeccable.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3164217.htm This is a lovely option as well. And BIG! One of the nicests ES stones I've seen from WF in a while.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3101775.htm G color.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3114552.htm G color as well.


Those are your options in the "super ideal" range.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Here's another and if this one is eyeclean (possible) I'd be ALL OVER this one:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.27-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-310791

The stone above is a GIA I SI1 stone.

You are right. Wonder if the lab report is wrong. Or is this IS one of the rare instances where the lab disagrees.

I asked. The labs disagreed. It happens. Sometimes GIA is higher, sometimes AGS.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

This one looks good!
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11976/

 

[Gypsy]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

If you want GIA and NOT Hearts and Arrows:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.04-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-330381 Get an ideal scope.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

This one looks good!
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11976/

Yes, but it is 5K over budget. His budget is 30K and under DF.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Here's another and if this one is eyeclean (possible) I'd be ALL OVER this one:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.27-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-310791

The stone above is a GIA I SI1 stone.

You are right. Wonder if the lab report is wrong. Or is this IS one of the rare instances where the lab disagrees.

I asked. The labs disagreed. It happens. Sometimes GIA is higher, sometimes AGS.

So in this case GIA say I color and AGS say H?

 

[Gypsy]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Yup. I told them that it should be listed as I.

 

[TwinkleCootie]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Thanks Gypsy for the information and the diamond recommendations.

Assuming I WANT a Hearts and Arrow "top shelf" triple 0 diamond is there any reason I should choose to go with Brian Gavin over White Flash? It seems like their Signature line is still more expensive than White Flash's A Cut Above line...

 

[TwinkleCootie]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

I am looking at these two diamonds in particular:

White Flash:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3063787.htm

Brian Gavin:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.088-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104069928003

 

[Roqsteady]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Of those 2 I would go with the WF ACA simply due to the price difference and I like the crown angle/pavillion angle combo a little better, as it will give you a slightly better balance of fire/brilliance than the BG Signature. Also, I heard PS asked vendors to stop offering PS discounts, but you can still ask both sales reps to see if they offer a discount since you're a member of pricescope. One may offer and the other may not, which could help your decision.

Either way, both knockout stones!

 

[TwinkleCootie]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

BGD diamond has a bigger face/surface area though...

 

[Gypsy]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

I prefer BGDs settings so for me, that would win.

Does either vendor have a setting you prefer over the other?

 

[teobdl]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Phoenix (a well-regarded PSer) is selling her 2.65 H SI1 for around 30K. Look on pre-loved.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Here's another and if this one is eyeclean (possible) I'd be ALL OVER this one:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.27-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-310791

The stone above is a GIA I SI1 stone.

Every single instance I have seen of disagreement on color of stones graded by both labs had one grade higher color from AGS than GIA. I once bought a GIA H&A stone in H color and later sold it with new grading from AGS at G color. That worked out really well for me! I feel that it is likely borderline color stones that AGS is looser on grading and GIA stricter. I do have WhiteFlash AGS diamonds and am totally happy with them. But I have also been fortunate in that Good Old Gold will check color for me when I look at their stones, and I don't buy an AGS stone that falls in the low end of a color range.

With the James Allen stone, I would compare prices and be sure it is priced at I color prices and not H.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Of those 2 I would go with the WF ACA simply due to the price difference and I like the crown angle/pavillion angle combo a little better, as it will give you a slightly better balance of fire/brilliance than the BG Signature. Also, I heard PS asked vendors to stop offering PS discounts, but you can still ask both sales reps to see if they offer a discount since you're a member of pricescope. One may offer and the other may not, which could help your decision.

Either way, both knockout stones!

+1

 

[TwinkleCootie]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

I was planning on buying the loose stone first, getting it appriased, and then buying the setting separately at a local brick and mortar jeweler (so I have options to return it in case my girlfriend does not like the setting I choose).

If you discount the settings, would you still go with the BGD stone?

 

[TwinkleCootie]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

This makes me a little uneasy purchasing an AGS. While I would have no problem paying the listed wire price for either of the White Flash or BGD stones if they were "True" H colors, I am afraid of overpaying if they are really only "I" colors. Is there anyway short of sending an AGS stone to GIA for another certification where I can get comfortable around this issue or am I just taking a chance at this point?

 

[Roqsteady]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

If you are going to buy a setting and have it set locally, you will have to insure it yourself during the setting process, as the local jeweler will not be liable for any damage to your stone as it is an outside stone to them.

Ask the sales rep for the gemologists' opinion of the color. If you are going to get it appraised anyway then you will know and you can return the stone during the return period (they both have pretty good return policies) if the color is not too your liking? Have you looked at H and I colored stones before? The difference is pretty minute, and almost impossible to tell face up.

And quite honestly, when you're dealing with stones of this quality, if you set these two stones side-by-side, I'd bet a good sum of money you wouldn't be able to tell which is which, even under all lighting conditions, unless you knew exactly what to look for.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

Yup. I told them that it should be listed as I.

Hmmm, I wonder what is inscribed on the girdle? The GIA #s or the AGS #s?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

If you are going to buy a setting and have it set locally, you will have to insure it yourself during the setting process, as the local jeweler will not be liable for any damage to your stone as it is an outside stone to them.

Ask the sales rep for the gemologists' opinion of the color. If you are going to get it appraised anyway then you will know and you can return the stone during the return period (they both have pretty good return policies) if the color is not too your liking? Have you looked at H and I colored stones before? The difference is pretty minute, and almost impossible to tell face up.

And quite honestly, when you're dealing with stones of this quality, if you set these two stones side-by-side, I'd bet a good sum of money you wouldn't be able to tell which is which, even under all lighting conditions, unless you knew exactly what to look for.

Yeah, but more of a "mind thing"..

 

[TwinkleCootie]

Re: White Flash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature Diamonds Quest

If you are going to buy a setting and have it set locally, you will have to insure it yourself during the setting process, as the local jeweler will not be liable for any damage to your stone as it is an outside stone to them.

Ask the sales rep for the gemologists' opinion of the color. If you are going to get it appraised anyway then you will know and you can return the stone during the return period (they both have pretty good return policies) if the color is not too your liking? Have you looked at H and I colored stones before? The difference is pretty minute, and almost impossible to tell face up.

And quite honestly, when you're dealing with stones of this quality, if you set these two stones side-by-side, I'd bet a good sum of money you wouldn't be able to tell which is which, even under all lighting conditions, unless you knew exactly what to look for.

Yeah, but more of a "mind thing"..

You are absolutely right about it being a "mind thing". However, since this is a big purchase I wouldn't want to have any form of buyer's remorse whatsoever. Part of that involves getting comfortable with the "mind thing"