Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestants"

[monarch64]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

I think everyone should learn to protect themselves, starting from a young age. Martial arts are a great way for kids to learn self-discipline, get exercise, and obviously learn skills that will stay with them the rest of their lives. To market that ONLY towards women as self-defense against all those rapists out there lurking in the shadows is fear-mongering at best and completely sexist at worst. I understand why that marketing exists, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it or encourage it. Let's start off younger and on a more even playing field. Offer it in schools or as part of subsidized youth programs and talk about bullies. Frame it in a different way that is all-inclusive and expects both sexes (all sexes, however one identifies, whatever) to be responsible for their own actions and behaviors.

And I still maintain that sex education in public schools in this country has a LOOOOOOOOONG way to go. This abstinence-only nonsense is a huge part of the problem. That's probably another topic for another thread.

 

[Matata]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

Monarch, Red...I appreciate both of you. Most of the time when we have discussions that are rife with emotion, we speak the same language albeit with a bit of dialectal difference and differing point of view that can be mistaken for opposition when in reality, we are on the same path heading in the same direction. It is this diversity of experience and thought that results in change for the better.

 

[monarch64]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

Has this been shared? I love this video the Brits put out using tea as an analogy for sexual assault. It's a stick figure cartoon and would be OK for older kids to watch, so SFW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp6alIALDHA

I find it interesting all the things moms of girls say and teach their girls to try to prevent them from being attacked, but I rarely hear moms of boys going on about how they are going to make sure they raise boys to keep their hands off of women. I have boys and girls, and aside from teaching my girls ways they can try to stay safe, I also teach my boys to be respectful of women, and, hopefully, they will always be respectful of women in words and deeds.

Have not seen that, but it's great and I just shared it on social media. Thank you for teaching your boys to be responsible for their behavior.

 

[redwood66]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

Has this been shared? I love this video the Brits put out using tea as an analogy for sexual assault. It's a stick figure cartoon and would be OK for older kids to watch, so SFW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp6alIALDHA

I find it interesting all the things moms of girls say and teach their girls to try to prevent them from being attacked, but I rarely hear moms of boys going on about how they are going to make sure they raise boys to keep their hands off of women. I have boys and girls, and aside from teaching my girls ways they can try to stay safe, I also teach my boys to be respectful of women, and, hopefully, they will always be respectful of women in words and deeds.

That was a great video! Thank you!

BTW I have said that I raised my sons to be respectful and their father is a consummate role model. I wish every man were like him. Thank you for doing the same with your boys.

 

[monarch64]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

Monarch, Red...I appreciate both of you. Most of the time when we have discussions that are rife with emotion, we speak the same language albeit with a bit of dialectal difference and differing point of view that can be mistaken for opposition when in reality, we are on the same path heading in the same direction. It is this diversity of experience and thought that results in change for the better.

Thanks, Matata. You are right. I know we all want to see each other and our children happy and healthy and we worry. We do want the same things--you put it very succinctly and eloquently. Great perspective.

 

[redwood66]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

Monarch, Red...I appreciate both of you. Most of the time when we have discussions that are rife with emotion, we speak the same language albeit with a bit of dialectal difference and differing point of view that can be mistaken for opposition when in reality, we are on the same path heading in the same direction. It is this diversity of experience and thought that results in change for the better.

Thank you Matata. As Monnie said, eloquently put as always.

I had been wondering if you had me on ignore.

 

[CJ2008]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

That was an awesome video, Bee!

Sharing that with my niece for sure...so she can pass it around to her friends (all in high school)

I do wish it talked more about a level BELOW unconscious - like if someone is drunk - although they do say unless you can clearly understand "yes, I want tea!", assume they don't...

 

[ruby59]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

Actually, it doesn't matter if two people are in the middle of sex and someone decides to stop. If the other doesn't allow the act to stop, it then becomes rape.

There is no such things as "the point of no return." Once the words "stop" or "no" are said and not honored, it becomes rape.
______________________________________________________

I wish I could make myself clearer.

I am in no way advocating this in the least. Intelligent people would understand that. I have been a member here for over 10 years. So to accuse me of being a troll is ludicrous.

What I am saying is that in a perfect world this would hold true. But we do not live in one. That is why I taught my daughters to not get themselves into that type of situation in the first place.

You've mentioned before that when you were young you were a victim of sexual assault or molestation, I'm not sure because you weren't specific (and that''s fine.) I think I understand the point you're trying to make, which is that you don't want that to happen to anyone else and you believe there are things women can do to have control over their situations so something WON'T happen to them. What others here and I are trying to get across to you is that this line of thinking absolutely gives power and control to the victimizers, not the victims. It is an old-school way of thinking and it places all the blame on the victim, not on the perpetrator where it should be. What we are saying is that instead of teaching girls to be the ones the responsibility falls on to protect themselves from predators, teach boys that it's not ok to just "grab women by the pussy" or rape them, or assault them because they've been drinking or because they're wearing what some might consider "suggestive" clothing or dancing provocatively at a club. Women get to be sexual beings, too. Not just men. We get to express ourselves however we choose, and men need to learn that if we change our minds at ANY GIVEN TIME they need to respect that. I'm sure it can be physically achieved. If a man is strong enough to overpower a woman, he's strong enough to walk away.

See, there's this whole other train of thought out there, Ruby. And it's progressive. And it assumes human beings will evolve until they stop treating one another like animals. We are steadfastly marching towards that. And when I talk about the Trumps, the dinosaurs, the old-schoolers being replaced? They're being replaced with forward-thinking humanists like me and Elliott and Telephone and others here and countless others who lurk but don't post here anymore because why bother? I believe we should bother. And I'll never shut up about this. Ever. My views are not unrealistic. I will not sit back and be told "that's jjust the way it is." I will not become complacent. I will continue to fight for equality for your daughters and for mine. Have a nice day.

What I advocating is to teach both boys and girls to have respect for each other and themselves. You cannot have one without the other. It is not an either or situation.

Have you listened to rap music lately? And who listens to that - young people? And much of it is deplorable in its treating of women, so I am not sure of the evolution you talk about.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

Monnie thank you for that post. This is the kind of discourse that we should try to have about this subject. I want to be honest here in that my way of thinking is somewhere in between because we do not live in that world yet. I worry for the young ladies we have in the here and now. People of all socioeconomic backgrounds raise (or don't raise) young men who do not have respect for women and they are out there every day. Ruby is right in her thinking about not putting yourself in a position you may not be able to get yourself out of and she should not be admonished for people not understanding her point. Because those ill raised young or old men are waiting and they are vicious. What people should do and what actually happens are two very different things. All I am asking is that you realize that protecting yourself is important and that expectations of someone else's actions being proper is ill advised. Knowing what I know and then not speak up when it comes to situational awareness for women would be tantamount to a dereliction of duty in my mind. And please do not mock me when I speak of it because it comes from long years of experience and care for my fellow women.

I may have been harsh earlier to sstephenid and I apologize for it. If we can't have proper respectful discourse then I will not respond to taunts.

Thank you Redwood for saying exactly what I was trying to express.

You cannot count on another person to do the right thing. There are bad people out there and we have to deal with society the way it is, not the way we what we want it to be.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

Red, I know you are coming from a place of self-preservation and protection and that you know the world to be a different place than some of us idealists here. I totally get that. Hearing about you dropping a guy for grabbing your butt is empowering and I am proud to know women who are strong enough to do that.

My mom was raped by the father of children she was babysitting for when she was 18. She was in the front hall waiting for him to drive her home (this is back in the early 60s) and he just pushed her down and raped her right there and there was nothing she could do. She wasn't wearing anything suggestive and she had just taken care of his children all evening. There was no preventing it. she didn't put herself in a bad situation. She was doing what millions of girls her age were doing every Friday night. Yet, she still told me I was dressing in appropriately and like a slut and screamed at me for wearing a 2-piece swimsuit at 14, etc. I was something she wanted to control because she hadn't been able to control her own situation. Nope. Ended up with a raging eating disorder (since I couldn't control anything else). And married someone who was very abusive the first time, and de-escalated and acquiesed because that's what I'd seen my mother do with my dad. Keep the peace. Keep them happy. So when I talk about getting to the root of the issue, that's why. Until we stop blaming ourselves and start placing blame, accountability, and responsibility where it belongs, with the boys and men who perpetrate these crimes, we're just going to continue the cycle. Rape doesn't just affect the victim. It affects her daughters, and her daughters' daughters, so on and so forth. It has to stop.

I was 12. I had the body of an 18 year old but the mind of a child. My "uncle" wanted to teach me how the big girls do it. If my mom had better prepared me, then I would have dropped him right there instead of letting him take advantage.

And yes, like you I was just minding my business and it happened. There are bad people out there and all the pre training is not going to change that.

That is why we have to teach our daughters to be ever vigilant for it is the world we live in now.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

I think everyone should learn to protect themselves, starting from a young age. Martial arts are a great way for kids to learn self-discipline, get exercise, and obviously learn skills that will stay with them the rest of their lives. To market that ONLY towards women as self-defense against all those rapists out there lurking in the shadows is fear-mongering at best and completely sexist at worst. I understand why that marketing exists, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it or encourage it. Let's start off younger and on a more even playing field. Offer it in schools or as part of subsidized youth programs and talk about bullies. Frame it in a different way that is all-inclusive and expects both sexes (all sexes, however one identifies, whatever) to be responsible for their own actions and behaviors.

And I still maintain that sex education in public schools in this country has a LOOOOOOOOONG way to go. This abstinence-only nonsense is a huge part of the problem. That's probably another topic for another thread.

First off we all have to be on the same page. And as Red said can we count on every parent to do it?

So until we can, what choice do we have. Can you guarantee that every man is going to take this advice? Can you guarantee for me an even playing field?

Until you can, my only choice as a parent is to arm my daughters as best as I can. That is why they took self defense classes, do not walk alone after dark and do not go to places that put them at risk.

 

[monarch64]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

Actually, it doesn't matter if two people are in the middle of sex and someone decides to stop. If the other doesn't allow the act to stop, it then becomes rape.

There is no such things as "the point of no return." Once the words "stop" or "no" are said and not honored, it becomes rape.
______________________________________________________

I wish I could make myself clearer.

I am in no way advocating this in the least. Intelligent people would understand that. I have been a member here for over 10 years. So to accuse me of being a troll is ludicrous.

What I am saying is that in a perfect world this would hold true. But we do not live in one. That is why I taught my daughters to not get themselves into that type of situation in the first place.

You've mentioned before that when you were young you were a victim of sexual assault or molestation, I'm not sure because you weren't specific (and that''s fine.) I think I understand the point you're trying to make, which is that you don't want that to happen to anyone else and you believe there are things women can do to have control over their situations so something WON'T happen to them. What others here and I are trying to get across to you is that this line of thinking absolutely gives power and control to the victimizers, not the victims. It is an old-school way of thinking and it places all the blame on the victim, not on the perpetrator where it should be. What we are saying is that instead of teaching girls to be the ones the responsibility falls on to protect themselves from predators, teach boys that it's not ok to just "grab women by the pussy" or rape them, or assault them because they've been drinking or because they're wearing what some might consider "suggestive" clothing or dancing provocatively at a club. Women get to be sexual beings, too. Not just men. We get to express ourselves however we choose, and men need to learn that if we change our minds at ANY GIVEN TIME they need to respect that. I'm sure it can be physically achieved. If a man is strong enough to overpower a woman, he's strong enough to walk away.

See, there's this whole other train of thought out there, Ruby. And it's progressive. And it assumes human beings will evolve until they stop treating one another like animals. We are steadfastly marching towards that. And when I talk about the Trumps, the dinosaurs, the old-schoolers being replaced? They're being replaced with forward-thinking humanists like me and Elliott and Telephone and others here and countless others who lurk but don't post here anymore because why bother? I believe we should bother. And I'll never shut up about this. Ever. My views are not unrealistic. I will not sit back and be told "that's jjust the way it is." I will not become complacent. I will continue to fight for equality for your daughters and for mine. Have a nice day.

What I advocating is to teach both boys and girls to have respect for each other and themselves. You cannot have one without the other. It is not an either or situation.

Have you listened to rap music lately? And who listens to that - young people? And much of it is deplorable in its treating of women, so I am not sure of the evolution you talk about.

I've listened to rap music since I was a child. NWA, Run DMC, Eazy E, Tupac, Biggie, L'il Kim, Snoop, Jay Z, Kanye, everything. Much of it is talk about prostitution. Much of it is also in celebration of the female form--see Sir Mixx A Lot's "I Like Big Butts." Much of it is about a plethora of social issues the African American community is faced with. It's a bit deeper than "omg, rap music, Becky!" And is that your only argument? Black people? Because that's not racist, or anything. Did you know there are female rappers? Ever listen to L'il Kim? She's pretty amazing. Hardcore, but still amazing. Do you know there's a former PSr whose son is a rapper and coming onto the Chicago scene in a major way? Did you know there are PSr's who love Kanye West and attend his concerts regularly? SHOCKING, huh.

You can teach both boys and girls about mutual respect all you want. But until you stop playing the blame game by placing it squarely on the girls, there is still a problem and it's still contributing to rape culture. I'm not trying to stop a cultural musical movement--it's not my place. I support what I enjoy and if there are depictions in the lyrics of violence against women that the artist is selling, I do not support that artist. If they are telling a story or description of things taking place that they have or are observing, that is different. Big picture. Complexities abound.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

But until you stop playing the blame game by placing it squarely on the girls, there is still a problem and it's still contributing to rape culture.
______________________________

Show me where I ever alluded to that.

What I said was that since I cannot count on anyone else having morality to do the right thing, I do need to put it on my daughter's shoulders. As someone upthread said, it is self preservation.

 

[monarch64]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

I think everyone should learn to protect themselves, starting from a young age. Martial arts are a great way for kids to learn self-discipline, get exercise, and obviously learn skills that will stay with them the rest of their lives. To market that ONLY towards women as self-defense against all those rapists out there lurking in the shadows is fear-mongering at best and completely sexist at worst. I understand why that marketing exists, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it or encourage it. Let's start off younger and on a more even playing field. Offer it in schools or as part of subsidized youth programs and talk about bullies. Frame it in a different way that is all-inclusive and expects both sexes (all sexes, however one identifies, whatever) to be responsible for their own actions and behaviors.

And I still maintain that sex education in public schools in this country has a LOOOOOOOOONG way to go. This abstinence-only nonsense is a huge part of the problem. That's probably another topic for another thread.

First off we all have to be on the same page. And as Red said can we count on every parent to do it?

So until we can, what choice do we have. Can you guarantee that every man is going to take this advice? Can you guarantee for me an even playing field?

Until you can, my only choice as a parent is to arm my daughters as best as I can. That is why they took self defense classes, do not walk alone after dark and do not go to places that put them at risk.

I listen to you, Ruby. I do. And I hear and actually understand what you're saying and I can even realize exactly WHY you have these beliefs, perceptions, and attitudes. And they are ok. All I'm asking in return is to have a two-way conversation in which you listen and comprehend what I'm saying and why as well.

 

[monarch64]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

But until you stop playing the blame game by placing it squarely on the girls, there is still a problem and it's still contributing to rape culture.
______________________________

Show me where I ever alluded to that.

What I said was that since I cannot count on anyone else having morality to do the right thing, I do need to put it on my daughter's shoulders. As someone upthread said, it is self preservation.

Ugh. Ok. I'm not in a pissing match here and don't care to be. I've met you halfway. You refuse to do the same. I'm done responding to you.

 

[Matata]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

I had been wondering if you had me on ignore.

Snort. Never my dear. We might make each other's teeth itch sometimes, but I relish and appreciate differences of opinion. How else can one learn, adapt, survive if we don't keep the borders of our mind open?

I think quite a few of us on this thread, meeting at a PS get together and deep in our cups, would be a sight to behold.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

I've listened to rap music since I was a child. NWA, Run DMC, Eazy E, Tupac, Biggie, L'il Kim, Snoop, Jay Z, Kanye, everything. Much of it is talk about prostitution. Much of it is also in celebration of the female form--see Sir Mixx A Lot's "I Like Big Butts." Much of it is about a plethora of social issues the African American community is faced with. It's a bit deeper than "omg, rap music, Becky!" And is that your only argument? Black people? Because that's not racist, or anything. Did you know there are female rappers? Ever listen to L'il Kim? She's pretty amazing. Hardcore, but still amazing. Do you know there's a former PSr whose son is a rapper and coming onto the Chicago scene in a major way? Did you know there are PSr's who love Kanye West and attend his concerts regularly? SHOCKING, huh.


__________________________________________________________________________

Yes, there is the good and the bad. I am not lumping them all in together, so why are you suggesting I am.

And it is the bad ones, and the young males who listens to those, that concern me.

And do note, I said young people. It is you that is bringing up race.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

But until you stop playing the blame game by placing it squarely on the girls, there is still a problem and it's still contributing to rape culture.
______________________________

Show me where I ever alluded to that.

What I said was that since I cannot count on anyone else having morality to do the right thing, I do need to put it on my daughter's shoulders. As someone upthread said, it is self preservation.

Ugh. Ok. I'm not in a pissing match here and don't care to be. I've met you halfway. You refuse to do the same. I'm done responding to you.

I was posting at the same time you were. So I did not see your subsequent post about meeting me half way as I had not gotten to it yet.. So why can't you give the benefit of the doubt?

 

[monarch64]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

But until you stop playing the blame game by placing it squarely on the girls, there is still a problem and it's still contributing to rape culture.
______________________________

Show me where I ever alluded to that.

What I said was that since I cannot count on anyone else having morality to do the right thing, I do need to put it on my daughter's shoulders. As someone upthread said, it is self preservation.

Ugh. Ok. I'm not in a pissing match here and don't care to be. I've met you halfway. You refuse to do the same. I'm done responding to you.

I was posting at the same time you were. So I did not see your subsequent post about meeting me half way as I had not gotten to it yet.. So why can't you give the benefit of the doubt?

I've been trying. I'm losing patience and I don't want to be a jerk to you, so I think it's best we just move on and let each other be. I'm sorry if my posts have offended you, and I'm sorry we can't see eye to eye on these issues. I understand, though, and it's ok. Thanks.

 

[telephone89]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

I don't think anyone should live in fear. That article is not me in any way shape or form. I do not put up with leering looks, and you had better not ever lay a hand on me. An inmate brushed against my backside once and in front of about 50 others I dropped his a$$ to the ground cussing very unseemly things under my breath in his ear. Being a victim of sexual abuse at a young age did not make me a life long victim.

It is a woman's responsibility to protect and stand up for herself because you cannot count on anyone else to do it. I wish more women would take this to heart. But you also must be realistic and use common sense because the world that Monnie and telephone want does not exist.

So if something doesn't exist, should we not push toward it? Back in the day, the lovely ole internet didn't exist, if people just accepted that and didn't push forward and innovate and try to expand and change, we would go no where!
I agree, it doesn't exist - yet. But I am willing to push forward, be the voice of change, the innovator and entrepreneur if it will mean a better life for generations down the road.

You might get further with me if you didn't feel the need to put me down all the time.

How was I putting you down? I'm confused as to how you took about creating positive change in the world as a personal attack?

 

[redwood66]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

I don't think anyone should live in fear. That article is not me in any way shape or form. I do not put up with leering looks, and you had better not ever lay a hand on me. An inmate brushed against my backside once and in front of about 50 others I dropped his a$$ to the ground cussing very unseemly things under my breath in his ear. Being a victim of sexual abuse at a young age did not make me a life long victim.

It is a woman's responsibility to protect and stand up for herself because you cannot count on anyone else to do it. I wish more women would take this to heart. But you also must be realistic and use common sense because the world that Monnie and telephone want does not exist.

So if something doesn't exist, should we not push toward it? Back in the day, the lovely ole internet didn't exist, if people just accepted that and didn't push forward and innovate and try to expand and change, we would go no where!
I agree, it doesn't exist - yet. But I am willing to push forward, be the voice of change, the innovator and entrepreneur if it will mean a better life for generations down the road.

You might get further with me if you didn't feel the need to put me down all the time.

How was I putting you down? I'm confused as to how you took about creating positive change in the world as a personal attack?

It may not be putting down but perceived glee in proving someone wrong is how I interpret many of your posts. I try not to do that but I guess I need to realize that others are different or my perception may be incorrect.

 

[telephone89]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

I don't think anyone should live in fear. That article is not me in any way shape or form. I do not put up with leering looks, and you had better not ever lay a hand on me. An inmate brushed against my backside once and in front of about 50 others I dropped his a$$ to the ground cussing very unseemly things under my breath in his ear. Being a victim of sexual abuse at a young age did not make me a life long victim.

It is a woman's responsibility to protect and stand up for herself because you cannot count on anyone else to do it. I wish more women would take this to heart. But you also must be realistic and use common sense because the world that Monnie and telephone want does not exist.

So if something doesn't exist, should we not push toward it? Back in the day, the lovely ole internet didn't exist, if people just accepted that and didn't push forward and innovate and try to expand and change, we would go no where!
I agree, it doesn't exist - yet. But I am willing to push forward, be the voice of change, the innovator and entrepreneur if it will mean a better life for generations down the road.

You might get further with me if you didn't feel the need to put me down all the time.

How was I putting you down? I'm confused as to how you took about creating positive change in the world as a personal attack?

It may not be putting down but perceived glee in proving someone wrong is how I interpret many of your posts. I try not to do that but I guess I need to realize that others are different or my perception may be incorrect.

Just a weird post to call that out on, bc I was partially agreeing with you!

 

[redwood66]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

I don't think anyone should live in fear. That article is not me in any way shape or form. I do not put up with leering looks, and you had better not ever lay a hand on me. An inmate brushed against my backside once and in front of about 50 others I dropped his a$$ to the ground cussing very unseemly things under my breath in his ear. Being a victim of sexual abuse at a young age did not make me a life long victim.

It is a woman's responsibility to protect and stand up for herself because you cannot count on anyone else to do it. I wish more women would take this to heart. But you also must be realistic and use common sense because the world that Monnie and telephone want does not exist.

So if something doesn't exist, should we not push toward it? Back in the day, the lovely ole internet didn't exist, if people just accepted that and didn't push forward and innovate and try to expand and change, we would go no where!
I agree, it doesn't exist - yet. But I am willing to push forward, be the voice of change, the innovator and entrepreneur if it will mean a better life for generations down the road.

You might get further with me if you didn't feel the need to put me down all the time.

How was I putting you down? I'm confused as to how you took about creating positive change in the world as a personal attack?

It may not be putting down but perceived glee in proving someone wrong is how I interpret many of your posts. I try not to do that but I guess I need to realize that others are different or my perception may be incorrect.

Just a weird post to call that out on, bc I was partially agreeing with you!

It wasn't for that post but the prior ones. I was trying to make a point and obviously failed at making nice.

 

[Calliecake]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

Actually, it doesn't matter if two people are in the middle of sex and someone decides to stop. If the other doesn't allow the act to stop, it then becomes rape.

There is no such things as "the point of no return." Once the words "stop" or "no" are said and not honored, it becomes rape.
______________________________________________________

I wish I could make myself clearer.

I am in no way advocating this in the least. Intelligent people would understand that. I have been a member here for over 10 years. So to accuse me of being a troll is ludicrous.

What I am saying is that in a perfect world this would hold true. But we do not live in one. That is why I taught my daughters to not get themselves into that type of situation in the first place.

You've mentioned before that when you were young you were a victim of sexual assault or molestation, I'm not sure because you weren't specific (and that''s fine.) I think I understand the point you're trying to make, which is that you don't want that to happen to anyone else and you believe there are things women can do to have control over their situations so something WON'T happen to them. What others here and I are trying to get across to you is that this line of thinking absolutely gives power and control to the victimizers, not the victims. It is an old-school way of thinking and it places all the blame on the victim, not on the perpetrator where it should be. What we are saying is that instead of teaching girls to be the ones the responsibility falls on to protect themselves from predators, teach boys that it's not ok to just "grab women by the pussy" or rape them, or assault them because they've been drinking or because they're wearing what some might consider "suggestive" clothing or dancing provocatively at a club. Women get to be sexual beings, too. Not just men. We get to express ourselves however we choose, and men need to learn that if we change our minds at ANY GIVEN TIME they need to respect that. I'm sure it can be physically achieved. If a man is strong enough to overpower a woman, he's strong enough to walk away.

See, there's this whole other train of thought out there, Ruby. And it's progressive. And it assumes human beings will evolve until they stop treating one another like animals. We are steadfastly marching towards that. And when I talk about the Trumps, the dinosaurs, the old-schoolers being replaced? They're being replaced with forward-thinking humanists like me and Elliott and Telephone and others here and countless others who lurk but don't post here anymore because why bother? I believe we should bother. And I'll never shut up about this. Ever. My views are not unrealistic. I will not sit back and be told "that's jjust the way it is." I will not become complacent. I will continue to fight for equality for your daughters and for mine. Have a nice day.

+1,000

Monnie, I know I have told you this many times but I have to say it again. Your daughter is so lucky she has you for a mother!

 

[monarch64]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

Thank you, Callie. That means a lot to me--you're the sweetest.

 

[AdaBeta27]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

...
Ivana actually issued a statement that clarified her original statements of rape. She said she felt "violated" by him in the sense that when they were intimate, it was void of the usual emotion. She claimed that she was not raped in the criminal sense.
I'm not sure that I believe her, but thought it was worthy of posting. I think someone else posted something in another thread about him potentially sexually assaulting a 13 year-old girl, but I have not heard any follow-up on that one.

I can't help suspecting that some of these women were willing participants in a tryst with The Donald (who was much better looking in the '80s and '90s) until the point where they realized it was "devoid of the usual emotion." As an adult woman who's been single far more years than I was married, I can certainly say that I've been on dates and in relationships where I was looking for love, emotional intimacy, and a relationship with some kind of future, but the guy was just thinking "SEX." lol There are loads of women who'd have an affair with a rich married man, who'd be a mistress of a celebrity, who'd be in it for fun, excitement, lust, and adventure. And if they felt somehow shortchanged by The Donald, I can see were this might be a golden opportunity for them to earn a few extra bucks by suddenly deciding to talk about it to the news media. I feel certain that the Dems are putting a few dollars into the purses of women who are willing to talk.

Another thing I can't help wondering about is, if these alleged assaults really happened, was it the real Donald Trump or some look-alike who went around impersonating him? It happens, someone who looks like someone famous using that to con somebody or to get laid. lol The more The Donald talks about this women problem, the more I am reminded of President Scroob in Spaceballs, the movie. For months now, I've been yelling stfu at The Donald. I don't care about his sex life now or in the 1990s. If these were real sexual assaults, it was up to those women to prosecute, before statue of limitations ran out. Roosevelt, Eisenhower, probably all of the Kennedys, Nixon, Johnson, Ford, Clinton, I think one of the George Bushes, -- all had affairs and/or mistresses. Wealthy and powerful men usually do. Yawn. Weeks away from the election and we're still wasting time on crap instead of the serious business of running the USA!

 

[OreoRosies86]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

...
Ivana actually issued a statement that clarified her original statements of rape. She said she felt "violated" by him in the sense that when they were intimate, it was void of the usual emotion. She claimed that she was not raped in the criminal sense.
I'm not sure that I believe her, but thought it was worthy of posting. I think someone else posted something in another thread about him potentially sexually assaulting a 13 year-old girl, but I have not heard any follow-up on that one.

I can't help suspecting that some of these women were willing participants in a tryst with The Donald (who was much better looking in the '80s and '90s) until the point where they realized it was "devoid of the usual emotion." As an adult woman who's been single far more years than I was married, I can certainly say that I've been on dates and in relationships where I was looking for love, emotional intimacy, and a relationship with some kind of future, but the guy was just thinking "SEX." lol There are loads of women who'd have an affair with a rich married man, who'd be a mistress of a celebrity, who'd be in it for fun, excitement, lust, and adventure. And if they felt somehow shortchanged by The Donald, I can see were this might be a golden opportunity for them to earn a few extra bucks by suddenly deciding to talk about it to the news media. I feel certain that the Dems are putting a few dollars into the purses of women who are willing to talk.

Another thing I can't help wondering about is, if these alleged assaults really happened, was it the real Donald Trump or some look-alike who went around impersonating him? It happens, someone who looks like someone famous using that to con somebody or to get laid. lol The more The Donald talks about this women problem, the more I am reminded of President Scroob in Spaceballs, the movie. For months now, I've been yelling stfu at The Donald. I don't care about his sex life now or in the 1990s. If these were real sexual assaults, it was up to those women to prosecute, before statue of limitations ran out. Roosevelt, Eisenhower, probably all of the Kennedys, Nixon, Johnson, Ford, Clinton, I think one of the George Bushes, -- all had affairs and/or mistresses. Wealthy and powerful men usually do. Yawn. Weeks away from the election and we're still wasting time on crap instead of the serious business of running the USA!

People like you are the reason so many sexual assaults go unreported.

 

[sstephensid]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

...
Ivana actually issued a statement that clarified her original statements of rape. She said she felt "violated" by him in the sense that when they were intimate, it was void of the usual emotion. She claimed that she was not raped in the criminal sense.
I'm not sure that I believe her, but thought it was worthy of posting. I think someone else posted something in another thread about him potentially sexually assaulting a 13 year-old girl, but I have not heard any follow-up on that one.

I can't help suspecting that some of these women were willing participants in a tryst with The Donald (who was much better looking in the '80s and '90s) until the point where they realized it was "devoid of the usual emotion." As an adult woman who's been single far more years than I was married, I can certainly say that I've been on dates and in relationships where I was looking for love, emotional intimacy, and a relationship with some kind of future, but the guy was just thinking "SEX." lol There are loads of women who'd have an affair with a rich married man, who'd be a mistress of a celebrity, who'd be in it for fun, excitement, lust, and adventure. And if they felt somehow shortchanged by The Donald, I can see were this might be a golden opportunity for them to earn a few extra bucks by suddenly deciding to talk about it to the news media. I feel certain that the Dems are putting a few dollars into the purses of women who are willing to talk.

Another thing I can't help wondering about is, if these alleged assaults really happened, was it the real Donald Trump or some look-alike who went around impersonating him? It happens, someone who looks like someone famous using that to con somebody or to get laid. lol The more The Donald talks about this women problem, the more I am reminded of President Scroob in Spaceballs, the movie. For months now, I've been yelling stfu at The Donald. I don't care about his sex life now or in the 1990s. If these were real sexual assaults, it was up to those women to prosecute, before statue of limitations ran out. Roosevelt, Eisenhower, probably all of the Kennedys, Nixon, Johnson, Ford, Clinton, I think one of the George Bushes, -- all had affairs and/or mistresses. Wealthy and powerful men usually do. Yawn. Weeks away from the election and we're still wasting time on crap instead of the serious business of running the USA!

So you say they are lying. Even if they have proof, too bad statute (not statue) of limitations ran out. Wow.

 

[lovedogs]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

...
Ivana actually issued a statement that clarified her original statements of rape. She said she felt "violated" by him in the sense that when they were intimate, it was void of the usual emotion. She claimed that she was not raped in the criminal sense.
I'm not sure that I believe her, but thought it was worthy of posting. I think someone else posted something in another thread about him potentially sexually assaulting a 13 year-old girl, but I have not heard any follow-up on that one.

I can't help suspecting that some of these women were willing participants in a tryst with The Donald (who was much better looking in the '80s and '90s) until the point where they realized it was "devoid of the usual emotion." As an adult woman who's been single far more years than I was married, I can certainly say that I've been on dates and in relationships where I was looking for love, emotional intimacy, and a relationship with some kind of future, but the guy was just thinking "SEX." lol There are loads of women who'd have an affair with a rich married man, who'd be a mistress of a celebrity, who'd be in it for fun, excitement, lust, and adventure. And if they felt somehow shortchanged by The Donald, I can see were this might be a golden opportunity for them to earn a few extra bucks by suddenly deciding to talk about it to the news media. I feel certain that the Dems are putting a few dollars into the purses of women who are willing to talk.

Another thing I can't help wondering about is, if these alleged assaults really happened, was it the real Donald Trump or some look-alike who went around impersonating him? It happens, someone who looks like someone famous using that to con somebody or to get laid. lol The more The Donald talks about this women problem, the more I am reminded of President Scroob in Spaceballs, the movie. For months now, I've been yelling stfu at The Donald. I don't care about his sex life now or in the 1990s. If these were real sexual assaults, it was up to those women to prosecute, before statue of limitations ran out. Roosevelt, Eisenhower, probably all of the Kennedys, Nixon, Johnson, Ford, Clinton, I think one of the George Bushes, -- all had affairs and/or mistresses. Wealthy and powerful men usually do. Yawn. Weeks away from the election and we're still wasting time on crap instead of the serious business of running the USA!

People like you are the reason so many sexual assaults go unreported.

Your comments are frankly disgusting, and I agree with Elliot that this horrible type of attitude is exactly why women don't feel comfortable reporting sexual assault. If you honestly think that the issue of a potential POTUS sexually assaulting MULTIPLE women is "wasting time on this crap", then you are 100% part of the problem.

 

[House Cat]

Re: Trump brags, "I 'inspected' nude Miss Universe contestan

When I was 18, I was violently raped by someone I knew and cared about. I felt responsible for the act because I walked into his apartment. I felt I was to blame, even though I was knocked down and tied up. If I am being completely honest, I was so confused after it happened, I actually sat in the apartment for about 20 minutes in complete shock. When I finally left, I didn't know what to call it. How could someone that I actually wanted to have as a boyfriend rape me? I would have given it to him willingly. But whatever that incident was, I definitely felt I brought it upon myself. Even after others told me it was rape, I never reported it.

I never told my parents, because of the shame I felt.

That incident almost killed me. I made a very serious attempt on my life just a few weeks later. I couldn't handle what had happened to me. I would like to say I was strong and rose above it and took martial arts and learned to kick a man's ass. I didn't, I crumbled. The trauma of that incident sent me spiraling out of control. I sunk deeper and deeper into a depression that I never felt before. The only peace I felt during that period of time was knowing that I could end my suffering. I took every single pill in my house, hundreds of them.

I believe in angels. One came to my front door as I was floating on all of those pills, he asked if I could pay the bill for his paper route. I couldn't. That was for my dad. The act of getting up off the couch made me sick. I began to vomit white paste from the pills. I vomited all night.

I can't say the months following were ok either. They were a blur of self-abuse and frightening behavior.

For 20 years, I had a predictable depression around the anniversary of the rape. It wasn't until I found my therapist that I could finally heal and put that depression to rest.

Three weeks ago, I was dropping my son off at school and I look over, there is my rapist, dropping his kid off too. My body went electric. I wanted to wail and beat something. Even worse, our children share a certain extracurricular activity that will put me in the same room with this man many, many times...potentially until our kids graduate high school.

My PTSD symptoms flooded back after seeing him. My body went into fight or flight for two weeks. I wasn't as productive or functional. I was filled with nightmares. I was not OK. I still am not 100%. I kept thinking, "this is one of the downfalls of not reporting! You see them 25 years later, dropping off their kids and leading a normal life!" I am also haunted by the idea that he may have harmed others.

My story can't be unique. When I see comments like some of the comments made on this thread, they actually cause physical pain in my body. This happens because I know what these comments can do. They can stop a woman from reporting her sexual assault and having justice. There is a lot at stake when a person doesn't report. The incident never really goes away. As I am learning now.