Royal Jewels

[neil31uk]

Hi Bobby,

the DoW used it in 1911 - thank you for the correction. I thought it was made for 1911. I did see a pic of the Pow and his sister in coronation robes with this coronet, I will see if I can find it.

In the mean time, I found a great pic of HRH Princess Margaret at the coronation, wearing her small coronet behind a tiara. I don''t think I have seen that tiara in any other pics, does anyone recognise it? Was it just brought out for the day as it did not obstruct the coronet, then back into the infamous Buckingham Palace vault?

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Date: 2/18/2010 6:16:14 PM
Author: neil31uk
Hi Bobby,


There was a big issue when he abdicated as technically when he abdicated he forfeit all his titles, including all his titles as Knight of the Garter etc. Evidence for this is that he had to be readmitted into all these orders of chivalry after the abdication by his brother. The question was then, had he forfeit his status as a prince or did he retain it as once the son of a king, always the son of a king!


Attached a pic from HM QE II coronation, showing a marvellous array of coronets. The young (just 18 years old) Duke of Kent is in the top left hand corner, wearing a coronet of strawberry leaves and crosses as the grandson of MH KG V.


I''m really enjoying this guys, your a great source of information.


Neil

Thanks for the info and picture.

I always took it for granted that once Edward VIII abdicated he simply reverted to his previous title of British prince. Obviously there was a speculation that this act made him a mare commeoner, right?
Rgarding the orders - when he became King he was no longer a Knight of the Garter, etc., but Sovereign of all British/Commonwealth orders. That''s why George V had to re-bestow all British orders that Edward had before his ascension to the throne.

PS: I''m enjoying this too. I don''t think we''ve had such discussion before here.

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Princess Margaret wore her mother''s Scroll tiara, made by Cartier (not sure) and given by her beloved Albert. The tiara was also worn by Princess Anne in the 1970''s.

Here is a rare photo of The Queen Mother wearing the tiara:

 

[prince.of.preslav]

I think this picture of Princess Margaret is from 1954:

 

[prince.of.preslav]

And finally Princess Anne. I think the next to wear it should be one of the York girls:

 

[neil31uk]

Rgarding the orders - when he became King he was no longer a Knight of the Garter, etc., but Sovereign of all British/Commonwealth orders. That''s why George V had to re-bestow all British orders that Edward had before his ascension to the throne.

I think, if I am right, that as King he was head of each order so kind of a part but not, very confusing. I think when he was added to the order of St Patrick he was the last person to be so added.

 

[neil31uk]

As promised above, a pic of Prince Edward and Princess Mary for the coronation of their parents in 1911, with Edward wearing the coronet of the Prince of Wales (made for his father in 1901) that he took into exile with him in 1936.

Note just how simple the jewellery is for such a big event for Princess Mary - a few stings of pearls, no tiara (that may have all been to heavy for a young lady as she was then). Contrast this with the pic of her at the coronation of 1953 that I will post below!

 

[neil31uk]

HRH Princess Mary, now HRH The Princess Royal, Countess of Harewood, in 1953. I think her jewels here are wonderful and her tiara with that huge sapphire is simply breathtaking!!

 

[neil31uk]

There is me saying I have never seen a pic of a Queen Consort holding sceptres until today, and I go and find another pic! This one I think show''s it off even better and the diamond necklaces she wears always impresses me. I wonder how many carets there are around her neck?

 

[neil31uk]

THe Duchess of Kent arriving for the coronation of HM QEII, with the daughter, HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent. The princess holds her coronet, more a simple circlet like those used by Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret in 1937. This pic shows the strawberry leaf on the coronet very well.

The Duchess is wearing the Festoon Tiara that HRH Princess Michael of Kent wears so often and so well now.

 

[neil31uk]

Date: 2/18/2010 6:25:28 PM
Author: prince.of.preslav

Date: 2/18/2010 5:54:48 PM

Author: neil31uk

Hi Bobby,



THANK YOU for that much larger picture, you have answered my question, re is it gem set, from this picture it is moulded and engraved to simulate gems.



The Duke of Gloucester''s coronet is the same as the DoE''s as the DoG was the son of a sovereign and so entitled to the Coronet of a prince. There is a range of coronets int he UK allocated based partly on title and partly on your relation to a sovereign:



1) Coronet with crosses and fleu-de-lys and an arch for the PoW.



2) coronet with crosses and fleu-de-lys for children of the Sovereign.



3) coronet with four fleu-de-lys, two strawberry leaves and two crosses for the grandchildren of the sovereign who are the children of the PoW.



4) coronet with four strawberry leaves and four crosses for other grandchildren of the sovereign.



This last coronet is the pattern used by Royal Dukes by virtue of them being the grandchildren of the sovereign and has been in the past allocated to those becoming a Royal Duke but not a prince by blood. At least I think its been used before, I will look for more evidence to support this.



And your right, its a shame the Imperial Crown of India is no longer used. Maybe HM could be persuaded to take it on tour to a country like Canada where she is also Queen and use it to open parliament there.



Best wishes,



Neil

Thanks for the explanation, Neil! I stand corrected!


PS: I doubt the ICoI will be used any more. It''s part of Britain''s past and is a kind of an artefact it''s place is in the museum/Tower.

ETA - Why shoud The Dominion use a crown created for another, now ex, dominion. And has Elizabeth II ever opened a parliament there?


Bobby

Well the Imperial Crown of India is the only crown that can leagally leave the UK, that was the only reason I would suggest it, but you have a good point, it was created for another dominion.

Yes she has opened the Canadian parliament, pic below.

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Thanks for the pictures of George V and Mary in coronation robes and of Elizabeth II in Canada. Simply gorgeous and breath-taking.

Here are my remarks on some of your posts:
1) Sovereign of an Order = head of an order

2) Edward, Prince of Wales wasn't the last person to be appointed to the Order of St. Patrick. He was among the last three. The other two were his brothrs Albert (1934) and Henry (1936). The order isn't officially abolished, though.

3) At the time of the Coronation Princess Mary wasn't married and since tiaras at that time were 'reserved' for married women, it is not surprising that she didn't wear one. And at that time she most probabaly had only pearl strings, because her important jewellery came as wedding presents.

4)The Princess Royal's jewels from the 1953 Coronation were wedding presents from her parents and husband. The sapphire necklace and pendant were Queen Victoria's. The huge (and as you say breath-taking) sapphire was actually a brooch. The original center of the tiara has/had a diamond cluster. The sapphire and diamond corsge belonged to Grand Duchess Olga Feodorovna and was also a wedding present from the then Viscount Lascelles.

Regards,
Bobby

 

[neil31uk]

Hi Bobby,

I had no idea tiara were limited to married women. Looking closer at the pic of here with Edward, I think that in addition to the pearls there is a diamond collet necklace, the lower of the necklaces. What do you think?

That was one hell of a broach to have, I think it was a stroke of genius to add it to a tiara, I think it is truly one of the great tiaras.

I have attached a picture from the 1937 coronation. It shows the DoG and the DoK just a few years before he sadly died. Also Queen Maud of Norway, the Aunt of the new King.

 

[neil31uk]

I came across this one of the Imperial State Crown being renovated prior to the use in the 1953 coronation. This is when the arches were lowered to make it easier to wear for HM QEII. How tempting to slip the Stuart Sapphire into your pocket and then skip the country!

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Hi Neil,

I don''t think Princess Mary wore a collet necklace at the coronation of her parents. I think she''s wearing a necklace with larger spacing between each pearl.

Thanks for the picture of the Imperial State Crown. I have never seen it before without the arches, although I know they''re removable. You''re right that one could grab the sapphire and leave the country. Rmember that King James II took it with him during his exile in France.

Here is a nice picture of the Princess Mary, Princess Royal wearing her big diamond tiara with diamond center:

 

[prince.of.preslav]

And one more of The Princess Royal wearing Queen Victoria''s sapphire parure and the large brooch:

 

[neil31uk]

Date: 2/19/2010 2:14:52 PM
Author: prince.of.preslav
Hi Neil,


I don''t think Princess Mary wore a collet necklace at the coronation of her parents. I think she''s wearing a necklace with larger spacing between each pearl.


Thanks for the picture of the Imperial State Crown. I have never seen it before without the arches, although I know they''re removable. You''re right that one could grab the sapphire and leave the country. Rmember that King James II took it with him during his exile in France.


Here is a nice picture of the Princess Mary, Princess Royal wearing her big diamond tiara with diamond center:

Pretty with the original diamonds, but I prefer the sapphires in it.

 

[laurensmama]

Am really enjoying the coronation pictures (QEII and G&E), especially the closeups.

 

[laurensmama]

Just thinking, are the four cartier (?) bracelets, art deco style, still in the UK royal family? Believe they could be worn separately or together. Each one was a different gem, sapphires, emeralds, etc. Who "owns" them? Thought they were a gift from King George to the Queen Mum, which she loaned to her daughters. Can picture them clearly in my mind, not doing a very good job of communicating, sorry. Any recent pictures of them?

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Don't worry, Laurensmama! The quintete bracelets are now with Elizabeth II.

Here is Queen Elizabeth when Duchess of York (i'm not sure) wearing the bracelets in quesion. An interesting cobination of gems - pearls, diamonds, turquoises, rubies, emeralds amd sapphires:

 

[prince.of.preslav]

And here is Elizabeth II wearing the the emerald bracelet in between the two diamond ones at the Return banquet during the Italian State Visit in 2005. The Queen is cissing her eldest son - The Prince of Wales:

 

[laurensmama]

I realize that jewels are sold usually for death taxes, but I was wondering was any of Mary''s (the Princess Royal) jewelery returned to the crown or left with her husband''s family, or was it all sold. I read the website link that Bobby submitted but am still a little confused. What happened to the tiara she had with the large center stone (diamond or sapphire). Thanks

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Hi again Laurensmama!

You''re right - the jewels of the late Princess Royal were sold in order her son to pay the heavy death duties. Princess Royal Mary''s children inherited all her jewels and later sold almost everything with the exception of QV''s small sapphire tiara and probably some minor pieces. Since Mary''s death it has been worn by the current Countess and her daughter-in-law Andrea. The princess'' second son, Gerald, inherited a small honeysuckle tiara, now also sold.
I''ve seen the sale catalogues with pictures of the sapphires (sans tiara), diamonds, emeralds, etc., but never photos of the large tiara. I have a nice photo of the tiara like the ones we see in auction catalogues, so maybe it was sold too. Just I haven''t seen that catalogue...

Hope this helps.

Bobby

 

[loriken214]

Date: 2/20/2010 4:21:26 PM
Author: prince.of.preslav
Don''t worry, Laurensmama! The quintete bracelets are now with Elizabeth II.

Here is Queen Elizabeth when Duchess of York (i''m not sure) wearing the bracelets in quesion. An interesting cobination of gems - pearls, diamonds, turquoises, rubies, emeralds amd sapphires:

Hi Bobby!

I love this photo....amazing jewelry, especially those bracelets!!!

Lori

 

[laurensmama]

Hi Bobby,

What tiara is the queen mother (then duchess of york) wearing in the most recent black and white photo you posted? It does not look familiar. Is it jewelry from her family, or a gift? What do we know about the Strathemore jewelry collection? Thanks

 

[prince.of.preslav]

The Queen wore it again! Her sapphire chrysanthemum I mean - HM presented ''The Queen''s Anniversary Prizes For Higher And Further Education'' at Buckingham Palace, 19.02.2010:

 

[prince.of.preslav]

On 18 February Elizabeth II and Prince Philip attended a reception for the Centenary of Australian Diplomatic Representation. The Queen wore the Australian wattle brooch:

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Date: 2/23/2010 4:35:53 PM
Author: laurensmama
Hi Bobby,


What tiara is the queen mother (then duchess of york) wearing in the most recent black and white photo you posted? It does not look familiar. Is it jewelry from her family, or a gift? What do we know about the Strathemore jewelry collection? Thanks

Hi Laurensmama,

This is the Papyrus tiara. You can see a photo of the it on page 121, posted by Shadowed rain. (Link - Page 121)

I belive the tiara was a gift from Elizabeth's Duke or Queen Mary, but I'm not sure. Luckily the tiara and information about it can be found in Munn's bible, so enyone who has that book - Please enlighten us!

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

The Queen Mother later gave the Papyrus to her younger daughter Marharet:

 

[prince.of.preslav]

In 1993 The Hon. Serena Stanhope wore it on her wedding to Viscount Linley, Princess Margaret''s son. Looking at the Viscountess'' hair-do, I wonder if something happened to the Poltimore in the last moment and that''s why she had to wear the smaller Papyrus. Since her dress was a tribute to The Princess, I think it''s quite possible. What do you think?