Need Advice: My Girlfriend is Going to a Wedding as Another Man''s

[AFC]

This is a complicated story, so I will try to simplify:

Jena, my girlfriend's best friend, was invited to a wedding by Paul as Paul's date. Paul is a male friend who is interested in her, but there is no mutual attraction on Jena's part. (Paul knows how Jena feels, but he is persistent.) Paul has a single friend, Jeff, who was also invited to the wedding, but did not have a date. Since my girlfriend and Jena are close friends, it was suggested (I don't know who suggested it) that my girlfriend go to the wedding as Jeff's "date." That way, Jena does not have to attend the wedding by herself and fight off Paul's advances, and Jena and my girlfriend can have a good time together at a party that they would not have been invited to otherwise.

Before I get to my concern here, let me point out that I am not looking for judgement on Jena's behavior, and I don't want to blame Jeff (or his friend Paul) for getting wrapped up in a situation that I think is sticky at best.

My concerns ceter entirely around my girlfriend. We have been dating for over 18 months and we would both agree that we are in a committed relationship. To me, this means that we do not date other people, even if we call it a "date." (And let me be clear, my girlfriend announced to me that she would be attending this wedding as Jeff's "date," she did not use the word "guest," and--in my mind--this is where I begin to have a problem.) I am worried that even though my girlfriend thinks this is not a formal date, Jeff may not see it that way. Even if Jeff and my girlfriend do share this understanding at the beginning of the night, considering there will be drinking and partying going on...I can see how this situation could get out of hand. I attended a wedding not too long ago where one of the bridesmaids slept with one of the groomsmen, and Jena herself ended up succombing to the advances of another groomsman. These things can and do happen, despite our intentions, and I am angry at my girlfriend for putting herself in this situation.

Upon breaking the news to me, my girlfriend's initial reaction was shock. She told me "I can't believe you are jealous!" She then suggested that it is not a big deal, reminded me that she was attending the wedding to be there for her friend, and expressed concern that I would "retaliate." To this last point, I told her that we are both adults and that I feel she showed poor judgement in accepting this arrangement. I then told her that I had stated my feelings and did not wish to discuss the matter further. I did not tell her that agreeing to go to a wedding as someone else's "date" hurt my feelings, because in my eyes it diminishes the significance of our relationship. I also have not metioned my concern about what could happen (and really, what kind of message this sends to her "date") and how she does not seem to think that she has put our relationship in jeopardy.

Now my girlfriend wants to discuss the matter with me, and while I have made it clear that I will not tell her she cannot attend the wedding, I need to find a meaningful way to communicate how her actions have made me feel. This is where I turn to you. I would like to hear your assessment of this situation. Did I overreact? Is there a viewpoint that I haven't considered? While I was typing this, my girlfriend called me and I didn't pick up...it's not because I'm stonewalling her, it's because I need some time to sort things out for when we have our next conversation. What can you tell me that will help us both when we do finally talk?

Edit: One thing I left out of this account that is pretty important is that Jena, Paul, my girlfriend, and Jeff have hung out together socially before when I was not there. They have consumed (too much) alcohol together when I was not there. Jeff has spent the night sleeping on the couch in Jena and my girlfriend's apartment because he consumed alcohol when I was not there. For all I know, Jeff is an upstanding guy, and I can't find it in myself to be mad at him. I am mad at my girlfriend because I think going to a wedding with Jeff has a special significance that isn't present at a social get-together (whether I'm there or not). On a somewhat related note, my girlfriend tried to explain her decision to accept the arrangement by telling me that Jeff will be standing up in the wedding, so it would look bad for him not to have a date. I hope anybody reading this can understand that this statement only made me more angry, because to my mind that is Jeff's problem...and it's not a problem that my girlfriend should be happy to solve.

One more thing: if my girlfriend had said: "I'm sorry I hurt you. I can see how you feel. I promise I won't do this again." That would have been enough conversation for me and I would consider the matter resolved. The reason we are having this talk, however, is because my girlfriend now feels bad for...making me feel bad. I don't think she gets my point of view at all, so there's a good chance that she will never apologize and stick with her notion that "it's not a big deal." I need as much feedback as possible to resolve this...so guys and gals if you can't respond to anything else I've written above, please tell me what you would do if were in this situation: if you're a lady...what would you do if you were invited to a wedding under these circumstances (please do not consider the fact that I don't approve...my girlfriend didn't know this when she accepted), and if you're a guy...well, how would you feel?

 

[Sabine]

I can see how it would not seem like a big deal to your girlfriend...her view of the night is probably much different than what you are imagining. She''s seeing herself hanging out with her friend Jenna. she is probably not even considering that her "date" would think of anything or that she would be upsetting you. But I can see your point that a guy may have different expectations for this date than your girlfriend. It would be one thing for her to attend a wedding on her own, but I do think it''s wrong to attend as the date of a single guy that she is not already good friends with. However, you need to calmly explain to her how you feel and why you feel that way.

 

[Circe]

Just asking for the purpose of context ... how old are you guys?

If it were me - if my husband volunteered/was asked to be a mutual friend''s "date" for a wedding that I wasn''t attending, since given generic gender roles, the situation doesn''t translate 1-to-1 - I don''t think I''d mind. Because I trust my husband, and if he was aboveboard and honest about it, it wouldn''t be a problem. If I didn''t like the person he was attending with/for, it might be another story ... and it sounds like you don''t particularly like or trust *someone* here, though I''m not sure if it''s Jeff, Jena, Paul, your GF''s friends as a collective, your GF (right now), or all of the above.

If you''re actually worried that your GF will cheat on you in the boundaries of an otherwise healthy, stable relationship just because of a title and the presence of booze, that''s a problem (I''m assuming you wouldn''t feel this way if she just went out for a night on the town with friends?): I''m not sure quite *what* the problem is, though. From my perspective, it could be excessive jealousy on your part, or it could be previous shifty behavior on your GF''s part.

Quick solution? First, talk to your GF, and try to respect her postion - that she''s only doing it to help her friend. And, maybe suggest that since that''s the case, she go as *Jena''s* date? Just to eliminate the semantic confusion?

P.S. - Extrapolating that your GF might "slip up" because other, presumably single people, have hooked up at weddings is the thing that''s making me think excessive jealousy: it''s one thing to feel offended by the terminology (I respect that part), but seriously thinking that your GF will be getting involved with other guys the second you''re out of sight seems ... odd to me. Because, no matter what Jeff thinks, it''s her commitment that''s the issue here, yes?

 

[Pandora II]

My take on it would be that it comes down to how much you trust your girlfriend.

I am often the 'date' at events for my male friends. I have one friend in particular who I regularly go to things with, as his girlfriend hates very formal dinners/receptions etc and I actually enjoy them. I also go for dinner at his house on my own - FI has no problem at all, but then he also steps in as guest for some of his female friends and also often goes for lunch/dinner with them.

Neither of us would ever pretend that we were not dating each other and were merely accompanying this other person. We also all know the other people well.

We also go to a lot of evening events on our own - mainly due to our jobs.

Personally neither I nor my FI have any problem with this. We are 100% committed to each other and trust each other implicitly - we do not have an 'open' relationship in any sense of the word..

Perhaps the fact that neither of us drinks makes the whole thing easier - no possible chance of being carried away by the moment (not that I believe in that - there is always that point when however drunk you are you make a decision what you do).

I would be pretty annoyed if FI reacted badly to my going to an event as someone else's 'date' as this would indicate his lack of respect for my ability to behave appropriately and his lack of trust.

 

[gwendolyn]

Yeah, I can see this from both sides. She seems to be focusing on the fact that she''s going in support of her girlfriend, and that this ''date'' of hers is just a means to be there for her friend. I personally wouldn''t read anything into her saying she was going as his "date" rather than his "guest"--anytime I go anywhere with people it''s a ''date'' to me, even if it''s just my mom and me. So the word itself doesn''t necessarily mean anything, just the intent and meaning behind it does.

Since your girlfriend is focusing on HER girlfriend, she might see your problem with the situation as being controlling of her actions if you don''t explain to her your perspective--even if you don''t outright ''forbid'' her to go (which I don''t think would ever be a good idea), you can still attempt to control her through emotional manipulations if you guilt trip her for deciding to go against your wishes.

If you think it''s possible the man might figure your girlfriend is fair game, share this concern with your girlfriend. Tell her that you are worried he might think she''s there for him as much as for her friend. The best way I can think of to deal with it is to ask if she can clearly spell things out to her date that she is happily taken, not looking for anything but a fun night out with her friend, and that if he tries anything on her, he''ll be in a GREAT deal of pain. (Kidding on the last bit! Well, mostly...)

Of course, it''s entirely possible this dude (Jeff?) is perfectly harmless and will just be happy to have someone to chat with at dinner, so maybe making assumptions beforehand that he''s some sleaze isn''t the best way for everyone to have an enjoyable night. But because he''s an unknown factor and you DO want to make sure she''s upfront about your relationship, it''s probably better she be blunt at the beginning of the night to avoid having any mis-communications later in the night.

Or, her friend could suck it up and just deal with not knowing people at the wedding. Most of us have had to do it, so I don''t know why she shouldn''t have to, but whatev! Doesn''t seem like that will be the case, so I guess just make the best of the situation.

 

[AFC]

I am 34 and she is 25, if that matters. We are not engaged, but have discussed marriage, and I do not want to be married and I think she does.

Going as Jena''s "date" is not an option because Jena was only invited by proxy. (Word choice matters, though...I did admit that had she told me she would be going as Jeff''s "guest" I wouldn''t have batted an eyelash; she told me she would be going as his "date.")

I will admit that this could be a case of jealousy and the only answer is to trust her whether I feel comfortable or not. I do not believe that she intends to cheat on me (or that she is purposely putting herself in a situation where she can cheat on me). If this makes sense, I feel the anger that you are supposed to feel once someone has cheated on you and they come to you and say "I don''t know how this happened?" (To which my response, already prepared is: "Really? You don''t have a clue? Can we look at what happened here, because I think I might be able to help you out.") I agree that trust is an important part of a healthy relationship, but I also feel that there are certain boundaries that you do not cross. My girlfriend has crossed a boundary in my mind, but not in her mind. It is also very important to me that she does not seem to care about how I feel...thus dismissing my feelings as jealousy, and giving me one or two reasons (I''m there for my friend, I''m helping Jeff out) that don''t mean a thing to me.

Thank you for the responses thus far.

 

[Livinthedream]

my $.02:
I agree with you. I think this in inapproapriate behavior. IF she had a male friend, someone you knew as well and felt comfortable with, then I think it would be a dif story if THEY were going to an event together But...that isn''t the case. Do you know Jeff? If not, he has no reason to respect you, and may have no problem hitting on your GF, and making the best of the situation. If Paul is spending the night persuing Jena then that leaves a lot of time for Jeff to be spending with YOUR GF. I agree with what people wrote above- if you trust her, then you can put that aspect aside. But I have to be honest- I don''t like one part of it. If Jena didn''t want to go b/c she didn''t want to have to deal with Paul''s advances then she should have said no. If she was already committeed to the event then she should go and deal with the situation she got herself into. I personally wouldn''t want to go with someone I know would try to ''get to another level'' with me, but if Jena said yes to go- then she has to deal with it.
I would never put my FI (or any BF I ever had) in that situation. If she thinks you trust her enough to let her go, then that is good news, but I still find it a bit disrespectful. There are plenty of other times when she can out with her friends and party. This seems inappropriate and not conciderate of your feelings. Tell her the truth. Tell her how it makes you feel. If I was doing something that ever made someone I love feel disrespected I would stop/never start etc. GOOD LUCK!

 

[Circe]

Date: 6/17/2008 2:20:28 PM
Author: AFC
I am 34 and she is 25, if that matters. We are not engaged, but have discussed marriage, and I do not want to be married and I think she does.

Going as Jena''s ''date'' is not an option because Jena was only invited by proxy. (Word choice matters, though...I did admit that had she told me she would be going as Jeff''s ''guest'' I wouldn''t have batted an eyelash; she told me she would be going as his ''date.'')

I will admit that this could be a case of jealousy and the only answer is to trust her whether I feel comfortable or not. I do not believe that she intends to cheat on me (or that she is purposely putting herself in a situation where she can cheat on me). If this makes sense, I feel the anger that you are supposed to feel once someone has cheated on you and they come to you and say ''I don''t know how this happened?'' (To which my response, already prepared is: ''Really? You don''t have a clue? Can we look at what happened here, because I think I might be able to help you out.'') I agree that trust is an important part of a healthy relationship, but I also feel that there are certain boundaries that you do not cross. My girlfriend has crossed a boundary in my mind, but not in her mind. It is also very important to me that she does not seem to care about how I feel...thus dismissing my feelings as jealousy, and giving me one or two reasons (I''m there for my friend, I''m helping Jeff out) that don''t mean a thing to me.

Thank you for the responses thus far.

Thanks for providing additional background. What I''m getting from this is that, while your reaction is quite reasonable, its magnitude is not.

Think about this from your GF''s perspective for a second: she agrees to do a favor for a friend, mentions it to you in (I assume) a jokey fashion, possibly expecting to get a fun, gossipy conversation about how clueless Paul is, or points for being a good friend, and ... boom. You tell her you''re offended, end the discussion (something which always rubs *me* the wrong way: it smacks of laying down the law, and establishes a weird power dynamic where one person has all the authority), and stop taking her calls. If I were her, right now I''d be pretty upset about being treated as being preemptively guilty ....

See, her reasons might not mean anything to you, but they mean something to *her.* Since you''ve been together for a year and a half, by extension, they *ought* to mean something to you. Should they trump your feelings meaning something to her? (Follow that house-that-Jack-built train-of-logic five times fast.) Well, no. This is where compromise comes in ....

If I were her, I''d feel uncomfortable backing out of an agreement to help out a friend, and doubly uncomfortable doing it because my SO said I had to. I think you''re totally within bounds to make it clear to her that she should have maybe thought about the ramifications of agreeing to be someone else''s "date," that she needs to be upfront with Jeff that it''s not a capital-D-date, and that you''d appreciate it if she''d prioritize your feelings in all things "date" related in the future ... but right now, I think you need to take it down a notch. At this point, she hasn''t really earned the degree of betrayal you''re exhibiting ... she needs to respect your feelings, definitely, but shouldn''t it go both ways?

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/17/2008 1:38:23 PM
Author:AFC
To this last point, I told her that we are both adults and that I feel she showed poor judgement in accepting this arrangement. I then told her that I had stated my feelings and did not wish to discuss the matter further. I did not tell her that agreeing to go to a wedding as someone else''s ''date'' hurt my feelings, because in my eyes it diminishes the significance of our relationship. I also have not metioned my concern about what could happen (and really, what kind of message this sends to her ''date'') and how she does not seem to think that she has put our relationship in jeopardy.

I think the biggest problem here is while you''ve communicated that you feel she crossed a line, you neglected to explain WHAT the line was, or WHY you feel it was crossed. She cannot read your mind. You need to communicate these concerns with her before you condemn her for not caring about your relationship. She doesn''t feel that she crossed a line because she doesn''t see why one would be there. If you explain that you feel going as somebody''s "date" diminishes your relationship, and explain that you''re worried about how Jeff may interpret the situation you''re going to have a much clearer conversation about this situation and will get closer to a resolution that will help you both.

Personally, I find nothing wrong with this. I wouldn''t care if my BF did it, and I''m 90% certain he wouldn''t care if I did it -- because it''s about your GF''s friend (in her mind) and not about Jeff.

 

[purrfectpear]

The crux of the matter to me, is that Jena doesn''t even like this guy.

I could see your GF going along to facilitate Jena''s attendance if it was important to Jena because Jena had a crush on the new guy...but that''s not the case here. In truth there is NO REASON AT ALL for Jena to be accepting a date with a guy she has no feelings for, much less for your GF to need to tag along.

It''s that simple. Jena is using the guy to party. She''s dragging your GF into it to have an additional friend to party with. I don''t think you need to be jealous to think the whole scenario is a little ridiculous. I think your GF should bow out, and if she''s of a mind to - she could suggest to Jena that dating guys you don''t care about is called "leading them on" or "using"

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/17/2008 2:48:05 PM
Author: Circe

Date: 6/17/2008 2:20:28 PM
Author: AFC
I am 34 and she is 25, if that matters. We are not engaged, but have discussed marriage, and I do not want to be married and I think she does.

Going as Jena''s ''date'' is not an option because Jena was only invited by proxy. (Word choice matters, though...I did admit that had she told me she would be going as Jeff''s ''guest'' I wouldn''t have batted an eyelash; she told me she would be going as his ''date.'')

I will admit that this could be a case of jealousy and the only answer is to trust her whether I feel comfortable or not. I do not believe that she intends to cheat on me (or that she is purposely putting herself in a situation where she can cheat on me). If this makes sense, I feel the anger that you are supposed to feel once someone has cheated on you and they come to you and say ''I don''t know how this happened?'' (To which my response, already prepared is: ''Really? You don''t have a clue? Can we look at what happened here, because I think I might be able to help you out.'') I agree that trust is an important part of a healthy relationship, but I also feel that there are certain boundaries that you do not cross. My girlfriend has crossed a boundary in my mind, but not in her mind. It is also very important to me that she does not seem to care about how I feel...thus dismissing my feelings as jealousy, and giving me one or two reasons (I''m there for my friend, I''m helping Jeff out) that don''t mean a thing to me.

Thank you for the responses thus far.

Thanks for providing additional background. What I''m getting from this is that, while your reaction is quite reasonable, its magnitude is not.

Think about this from your GF''s perspective for a second: she agrees to do a favor for a friend, mentions it to you in (I assume) a jokey fashion, possibly expecting to get a fun, gossipy conversation about how clueless Paul is, or points for being a good friend, and ... boom. You tell her you''re offended, end the discussion (something which always rubs *me* the wrong way: it smacks of laying down the law, and establishes a weird power dynamic where one person has all the authority), and stop taking her calls. If I were her, right now I''d be pretty upset about being treated as being preemptively guilty ....

See, her reasons might not mean anything to you, but they mean something to *her.* Since you''ve been together for a year and a half, by extension, they *ought* to mean something to you. Should they trump your feelings meaning something to her? (Follow that house-that-Jack-built train-of-logic five times fast.) Well, no. This is where compromise comes in ....

If I were her, I''d feel uncomfortable backing out of an agreement to help out a friend, and doubly uncomfortable doing it because my SO said I had to. I think you''re totally within bounds to make it clear to her that she should have maybe thought about the ramifications of agreeing to be someone else''s ''date,'' that she needs to be upfront with Jeff that it''s not a capital-D-date, and that you''d appreciate it if she''d prioritize your feelings in all things ''date'' related in the future ... but right now, I think you need to take it down a notch. At this point, she hasn''t really earned the degree of betrayal you''re exhibiting ... she needs to respect your feelings, definitely, but shouldn''t it go both ways?

+1

You''re acting as if she''s betrayed you already? This situation does seem to be a little more controlling than I think you want it to be, and you''re not displaying much trust in your GF.

And I would wager that she *does* care how you feel, but it fairly upset that you seem to feel like you get to just decide what she should do and punish her when she doesn''t follow the rules you set out for her in your own mind.

 

[trillionaire]

I think I'm more with you on this one.

The primary issue, to me, is that she is discounting your feelings for the convenience of a friend. This is a no-no. It seems you guys have more talking to do. Not to mention it looks a little odd when people KNOW you are a part of a couple, but one person is out as someone else's "date, stand-in, etc". A lot of people have said on here that it would be no big deal to them... but you are not them, and it bothers you, so now you just need to decide what will make you comfortable...

I think I could see the situation being a little less awkward for a work function, or some casual social event, but weddings are so imbued with romance and intense feelings, even before alcohol comes into the picture... I don't think I would want SO as someone else's wedding with another date unless it was a family member or something... The last wedding that I attended, I went to with SO, and he was in the wedding party... which meant that I was awkwardly alone for most of the night. And plenty of single men approached me, because they had no idea that I was not there by myself. I don't know anything about this particular wedding that she is going to, but I know a lot of weddings are open weddings (like a church where anyone can attend), but closed receptions (invite only). Would it be possible to go with your GF to the wedding, even if you can't attend the reception? Would that make you feel more comfortable? (I know it might not be possible at all, but on the off chance)

And it does sound like you have a trust issue going on, based on the dialog that you have pre-scripted in your head... is there a reason for that? As uncomfortable or frustrated as I would be in your situation, an indiscretion would be the farthest thing from my mind... I would be more concerned about how things looked and the perception (both mine and other people's) of my SO being out with someone else...

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 6/17/2008 2:56:54 PM
Author: purrfectpear
The crux of the matter to me, is that Jena doesn't even like this guy.

I could see your GF going along to facilitate Jena's attendance if it was important to Jena because Jena had a crush on the new guy...but that's not the case here. In truth there is NO REASON AT ALL for Jena to be accepting a date with a guy she has no feelings for, much less for your GF to need to tag along.

It's that simple. Jena is using the guy to party. She's dragging your GF into it to have an additional friend to party with. I don't think you need to be jealous to think the whole scenario is a little ridiculous. I think your GF should bow out, and if she's of a mind to - she could suggest to Jena that dating guys you don't care about is called 'leading them on' or 'using'

This is exactly what I was thinking. Are Jena and your GF friends with the Bride and Groom? If not, they have no business attending the wedding as dates of guys they are not interested in.

 

[jewelerman]

AFC,
This is not complicated.When two people are in a commited relationship then they do not date other people or go as another persons companion.It shows dis- respect and can lead to problems in the relationship both between the couple and with those people who are outside looking in... wondering why shes available and dating someone besides you.Relationships take alot of care and work to stay healthy.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 6/17/2008 1:38:23 PM
Author:AFC

I attended a wedding not too long ago where one of the bridesmaids slept with one of the groomsmen, and Jena herself ended up succombing to the advances of another groomsman. These things can and do happen, despite our intentions, and I am angry at my girlfriend for putting herself in this situation.

I think this would nip it in the bud for me. Why would she even want to go after this happened (given you were together at the time--and it sounds like you were)?

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/17/2008 3:19:51 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

Date: 6/17/2008 1:38:23 PM
Author:AFC

I attended a wedding not too long ago where one of the bridesmaids slept with one of the groomsmen, and Jena herself ended up succombing to the advances of another groomsman. These things can and do happen, despite our intentions, and I am angry at my girlfriend for putting herself in this situation.

I think this would nip it in the bud for me. Why would she even want to go after this happened (given you were together at the time--and it sounds like you were)?

Jena is not his GF, though. She''s the GF''s friend.

 

[jewelerman]

Your girlfriends best friend Jena should know enough not to continue to date a man she isnt interested in and knows she will have to fight off his advances...she is leading him on and your girl friend should not support her in this by agreeing to be another mans date,which put problems in your relationship.Jena needs to grow up and speak up for herself and paul need to give it up and spend his time and energy on the other fish in the sea.

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/17/2008 3:25:33 PM
Author: jewelerman
Your girlfriends best friend Jena should know enough not to continue to date a man she isnt interested in and knows she will have to fight off his advances...she is leading him on and your girl friend should not support her in this by agreeing to be another mans date,which put problems in your relationship.Jena needs to grow up and speak up for herself and paul need to give it up and spend his time and energy on the other fish in the sea.

ITA

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 6/17/2008 3:25:33 PM
Author: jewelerman
Your girlfriends best friend Jena should know enough not to continue to date a man she isnt interested in and knows she will have to fight off his advances...she is leading him on and your girl friend should not support her in this by agreeing to be another mans date,which put problems in your relationship.Jena needs to grow up and speak up for herself and paul need to give it up and spend his time and energy on the other fish in the sea.

Good point...

If Paul and Jeff both went stag, they could have a great time together picking up women

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 6/17/2008 3:25:33 PM
Author: jewelerman
Your girlfriends best friend Jena should know enough not to continue to date a man she isnt interested in and knows she will have to fight off his advances...she is leading him on and your girl friend should not support her in this by agreeing to be another mans date,which put problems in your relationship.Jena needs to grow up and speak up for herself and paul need to give it up and spend his time and energy on the other fish in the sea.

this is so true!

sorry, but your girlfriend is totally out of line. does she understand the words ? if it was no big deal, she''d have asked you how you''d feel about it before she agreed to party with the crew. i say this because weddings are imbued with such significance that it is assumed that when attends with a member of the opposite sex that there is a relationship between the two. had she talked with you before about this, perhaps it would have been a different story. but she didn''t. jena is a user. your girlfriend may think she''s doing Jena a favor but in reality she''s cheapening herself by being a party to this.

movie zombie

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 6/17/2008 3:22:47 PM
Author: princesss

Date: 6/17/2008 3:19:51 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

Date: 6/17/2008 1:38:23 PM
Author:AFC

I attended a wedding not too long ago where one of the bridesmaids slept with one of the groomsmen, and Jena herself ended up succombing to the advances of another groomsman. These things can and do happen, despite our intentions, and I am angry at my girlfriend for putting herself in this situation.

I think this would nip it in the bud for me. Why would she even want to go after this happened (given you were together at the time--and it sounds like you were)?

Jena is not his GF, though. She''s the GF''s friend.

Haha, I have no idea how I missed this--I read his post a few times to make sure I had everything right. I think I need to check my eyeglasses prescription....

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/17/2008 2:20:28 PM
Author: AFC
I am 34 and she is 25, if that matters. We are not engaged, but have discussed marriage, and I do not want to be married and I think she does.

Could this have anything to do with her willingness to go on a date with another man?

 

[ladypirate]

Date: 6/17/2008 2:58:34 PM
Author: princesss

Date: 6/17/2008 2:48:05 PM
Author: Circe

Date: 6/17/2008 2:20:28 PM
Author: AFC
I am 34 and she is 25, if that matters. We are not engaged, but have discussed marriage, and I do not want to be married and I think she does.

Going as Jena''s ''date'' is not an option because Jena was only invited by proxy. (Word choice matters, though...I did admit that had she told me she would be going as Jeff''s ''guest'' I wouldn''t have batted an eyelash; she told me she would be going as his ''date.'')

I will admit that this could be a case of jealousy and the only answer is to trust her whether I feel comfortable or not. I do not believe that she intends to cheat on me (or that she is purposely putting herself in a situation where she can cheat on me). If this makes sense, I feel the anger that you are supposed to feel once someone has cheated on you and they come to you and say ''I don''t know how this happened?'' (To which my response, already prepared is: ''Really? You don''t have a clue? Can we look at what happened here, because I think I might be able to help you out.'') I agree that trust is an important part of a healthy relationship, but I also feel that there are certain boundaries that you do not cross. My girlfriend has crossed a boundary in my mind, but not in her mind. It is also very important to me that she does not seem to care about how I feel...thus dismissing my feelings as jealousy, and giving me one or two reasons (I''m there for my friend, I''m helping Jeff out) that don''t mean a thing to me.

Thank you for the responses thus far.

Thanks for providing additional background. What I''m getting from this is that, while your reaction is quite reasonable, its magnitude is not.

Think about this from your GF''s perspective for a second: she agrees to do a favor for a friend, mentions it to you in (I assume) a jokey fashion, possibly expecting to get a fun, gossipy conversation about how clueless Paul is, or points for being a good friend, and ... boom. You tell her you''re offended, end the discussion (something which always rubs *me* the wrong way: it smacks of laying down the law, and establishes a weird power dynamic where one person has all the authority), and stop taking her calls. If I were her, right now I''d be pretty upset about being treated as being preemptively guilty ....

See, her reasons might not mean anything to you, but they mean something to *her.* Since you''ve been together for a year and a half, by extension, they *ought* to mean something to you. Should they trump your feelings meaning something to her? (Follow that house-that-Jack-built train-of-logic five times fast.) Well, no. This is where compromise comes in ....

If I were her, I''d feel uncomfortable backing out of an agreement to help out a friend, and doubly uncomfortable doing it because my SO said I had to. I think you''re totally within bounds to make it clear to her that she should have maybe thought about the ramifications of agreeing to be someone else''s ''date,'' that she needs to be upfront with Jeff that it''s not a capital-D-date, and that you''d appreciate it if she''d prioritize your feelings in all things ''date'' related in the future ... but right now, I think you need to take it down a notch. At this point, she hasn''t really earned the degree of betrayal you''re exhibiting ... she needs to respect your feelings, definitely, but shouldn''t it go both ways?

+1

You''re acting as if she''s betrayed you already? This situation does seem to be a little more controlling than I think you want it to be, and you''re not displaying much trust in your GF.

And I would wager that she *does* care how you feel, but it fairly upset that you seem to feel like you get to just decide what she should do and punish her when she doesn''t follow the rules you set out for her in your own mind.

I''m with you guys on this one--AFC, I think that while you''re justified in being annoyed that she didn''t ask you first, etc., you''re being really controlling in your reaction! If my bf had a problem with something I was doing, he''d at least tell me why rather than saying "I do not wish to discuss the matter further." IMHO, you sound like her father rather than her bf--not cool. If you guys are in a committed relationship, you should be able to discuss it like two adults, not have you lay down the law on her behalf.

 

[Eva17]

i don''t know, call me old fashioned, but it''s not cool.

if you are in a committed relationship, you don''t accept such an invitation....

whether you are just hurt or jealous or dis-trusting, the plan is not cool.





out of respect for my SO, i would say, can''t make it!

 

[AFC]

Wow...more good responses here. More details:

--My girlfriend doesn''t like what Jena is doing to Paul. She considers it leading him on. She is right. I will say no more, because I refuse to sit in judgement of Jena, and because I think Paul is equally to blame at this point.

--My girlfriend did not choose Jeff over me. She feels that Jeff is harmless, and I have no reason to doubt this. My girlfriend chose Jena over me. That is understandable, since they have been friends for much much longer than we have been dating. Maybe a better course of action would be to set her friend straight, but this is not what happened, so I can''t deal in alternate reality.

--Whoever first used the word "disrespect" hit it right on the head. That is how I feel: disrepected. My unease over how she might have an indiscretion with someone else is nothing over the humiliation I feel knowing that my girlfriend is going to attend a function with another guy...whether her attendance is based on false premises or not, she''s still going to be there with him. If this is controlling behavior, as some have suggested, then I am a controlling person. I do not feel that my reaction is inappropriate, but I do hear (and take to heart) the crtiicisms that the scale of my reaction might be off the charts as far as my girlfriend is concerned. For the record, I did not hang up on her. I tried to avoid what I thought was going to be a very unpleasant conversation. In hindsight, I should have simply told her how I felt. Nor am I avoiding her calls. We will talk this evening and resolve the matter; I just want to be as together as I can when we have the conversation.

--The least interesting point here is who is the real injured party? Some people sympathize with me, and some sympathize with my girlfriend. We both have good arguments for how we have been done wrong, but, at the end of the day, it doesn''t really matter. I love her and I hope she feels the same way, so I turned to this forum because I wanted other people''s perspective. I cannot prevent her from feeling hurt if she feels like I am acting inappropriately, as some have suggested. Likewise, I can wallow in my own hurt feelings for as long as I want, and she is powerless to prevent me from doing so.

--I think I have a solution (and I would like to hear what you all think):

I will not prevent her from going to the wedding. Even if she would allow me to prevent her, this would not be the right thing to do.
From my perspective, the problem is that she used poor judgement, upset me (unintentionally), and (the greatest sin of all) has
been playing a very strong defense in order to prevent admitting any wrongdoing. I think she is embarrased and upset because, as
several people pointed out, not only did she not think I would have a problem with her attendance, she is worried that I will
hold a grudge against her and change the dynamic of the relationship in some unforeseen way. I won''t do that, because I really
do want to work things out.

So, neither party wants to apologize and we are at an impasse. I should thank everyone here for reminding me that her feelings
matter just as much as mine--and independent of who is right or wrong--I do owe her an apology for the grief she is feeling. She
will get that apology. I will tell her not to change her plans. I will tell her why I feel the way I do. I will use the word
"disrespect," but I will make sure she knows that I do not think she made me feel this way intentionally. The weekend of the
wedding, I will not see her. That is for my comfort, and not hers, but it is based on the premise that if I do not acknowledge
the situation, it will be easier for both of us. After that, we have at least a couple of tickets left to a sporting event. A close
friend of Jena''s has indicated that she has always wanted to go to this sporting event. I will ask my girlfriend to give her two
tickets that we would have used so Jena''s friend can go (the only rule is that she cannot take either me or my girlfriend).
This probably sounds odd, so let me explain my logic. The first part of the solution I suggested isn''t satisfactory in itself
because it doesn''t really cost my girlfriend anything. She is still going to the wedding, and I simply won''t be happy about it,
even after we''ve said our apologies. I am asking her to forgo one planned evening out, and give that evening to someone
else who can make good use of it. It probably sounds either silly or vindictive (or both), but if she would be willng to do that,
it falls under the category of what Stewart Smalley would call "an amends" (the thing you do to make a wrong thing right).
This arrangement also allows me to say that the consequences my girlfriend fears are explicit, and that I will not retaliate
or exact revenge in some unexpected way. If she is willing to do that, then I consider the matter resolved.

Well, I thought I was very magnanimous when I thought this up. What do you think?

 

[decodelighted]

I find your plans for an "amends" unsettling & controlling. Its up to the two of you to negotiate a peace ... not for you to set a plan & expect her to follow it (in order for the matter to be "resolved".)

Lemmie get this straight: You don't want to marry the girl ... are you just expecting to date her forever? Have you told her you don't want to marry her ... or is it you don't want to marry at all?

If you want her to put YOU first, YOUR wants first ... instead of her best friend ... do you do the same? Just wondering.

Personally, I would not want my "exclusive boyfriend" to accompany a single woman to an event ... date or otherwise, "free party" or not. I *would* find that idea disrespectful. I'm confident my husband would never think of such a thing &, when I think of ex-BFs who *would* suggest such a thing ... those all go back to my early/mid twenties. When none of us were really "serious" about each other & hadn't yet fully developed our empathy/compassion. Or they were just jerks.


ETA: Concur with the post about you coming across more "father" than "boyfriend". If you treat someone like a child they will rebel. Do you think the age difference contributes to the dynamic?

 

[Circe]

It sounds like you''ve thought about this a lot, and I agree with a lot of what you say concerning your reaction and feelings... but not with your plan, because it''s not a solution. It''s a punishment, out and out. It''s the grown-up equivalent of a spanking, and, I have to say, if anyone I''d ever dated had tried to pull something this passive aggressive on me ... I wouldn''t be with them anymore. You sound like a cool guy overall, but you really need to think this one through a little more: if you don''t want to see her that weekend, that''s up to you, but asking her to participate in this demeaning little ritual? Setting conditions for who uses the tickets, and how, so as to make her complicit in the humiliation? Erk.

I don''t think it''s controlling, per se, to tell her that you feel uncomfortable with this, and to tell her you''d rather she didn''t do it, to explain that you feel disrespected, and to listen to her counter-argument, if she has one. It''s actually the mature way to handle it, to reach a solution that both people can be happy with. It is NOT the mature thing to do to make sure that both people are equally miserable. And, if there''s an amend to be made, shouldn''t she be the one to propose it? A relationship shouldn''t function as quid pro quo.

It''s controlling to try to manipulate her reactions, which is what the ticket thing amounts to: it''s not like your only choices are enact vengeance now, or hold it over her head till later. There''s the alternative of, y''know, working to find a solution that you''re both okay with. The thing that reads as controlling here is, you''re figuring out all the solutions without actually TALKING to her: you''re setting the conditions, without her input. And that''s ... not a relationship between equals. It''s actually damned unhealthy.

If she chooses to go to the wedding because she''s committed to her friend and you don''t want to see her that weekend to attend the event, just sell the tickets on Craigslist, or give them to someone, no strings attached. If she apologizes, choose to forgive her, or not, as you see fit. But, please, don''t insult her by withholding a treat as if she''s an ill-behaved little girl.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 6/17/2008 6:39:18 PM
Author: Circe
* It''s the grown-up equivalent of a spanking
* if anyone I''d ever dated had tried to pull something this passive aggressive on me ... I wouldn''t be with them anymore.
* It is NOT the mature thing to do to make sure that both people are equally miserable.
* It''s controlling to try to manipulate her reactions, which is what the ticket thing amounts to: it''s not like your only choices are enact vengeance now, or hold it over her head till later. There''s the alternative of, y''know, working to find a solution that you''re both okay with. The thing that reads as controlling here is, you''re figuring out all the solutions without actually TALKING to her: you''re setting the conditions, without her input. And that''s ... not a relationship between equals. It''s actually damned unhealthy.
* don''t insult her by withholding a treat as if she''s an ill-behaved little girl.

GENIUS way of putting it!!!!!!!!! Agree 100% will all the above points.

 

[wishful]

I''m sorry I don''t have time to read through the whole thread....so I''m just going to post on what you wrote initally.

I think it''s inappropriate and inconsiderate on her part. She is going out of her way to make someone else happy at your expense.
it basically boils down to that.

If you are not happy/comfortable with her going then the two of you need to sit down and come to an agreement that works for both of you.

I''m sorry that her friend will feel uncomfortable going to this wedding with her "date" but she didn''t have to accept. She chose to.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Date: 6/17/2008 6:39:18 PM
Author: Circe
It sounds like you''ve thought about this a lot, and I agree with a lot of what you say concerning your reaction and feelings... but not with your plan, because it''s not a solution. It''s a punishment, out and out. It''s the grown-up equivalent of a spanking, and, I have to say, if anyone I''d ever dated had tried to pull something this passive aggressive on me ... I wouldn''t be with them anymore. You sound like a cool guy overall, but you really need to think this one through a little more: if you don''t want to see her that weekend, that''s up to you, but asking her to participate in this demeaning little ritual? Setting conditions for who uses the tickets, and how, so as to make her complicit in the humiliation? Erk.

I don''t think it''s controlling, per se, to tell her that you feel uncomfortable with this, and to tell her you''d rather she didn''t do it, to explain that you feel disrespected, and to listen to her counter-argument, if she has one. It''s actually the mature way to handle it, to reach a solution that both people can be happy with. It is NOT the mature thing to do to make sure that both people are equally miserable. And, if there''s an amend to be made, shouldn''t she be the one to propose it? A relationship shouldn''t function as quid pro quo.

It''s controlling to try to manipulate her reactions, which is what the ticket thing amounts to: it''s not like your only choices are enact vengeance now, or hold it over her head till later. There''s the alternative of, y''know, working to find a solution that you''re both okay with. The thing that reads as controlling here is, you''re figuring out all the solutions without actually TALKING to her: you''re setting the conditions, without her input. And that''s ... not a relationship between equals. It''s actually damned unhealthy.

If she chooses to go to the wedding because she''s committed to her friend and you don''t want to see her that weekend to attend the event, just sell the tickets on Craigslist, or give them to someone, no strings attached. If she apologizes, choose to forgive her, or not, as you see fit. But, please, don''t insult her by withholding a treat as if she''s an ill-behaved little girl.

Take it from the women on this forum, you pull a stunt like that and she just may decide Jeff is a better date afterall.

What she did was stupid, ditzy and disrespectful. I agree she was wrong, but it wasn''t done to hurt you. What you are doing is vindictive, mean and humiliating. She wasn''t trying to hurt you, you are trying to hurt her; that doesn''t make things even.

How does you caring for her translate into wanting to make her suffer? My FI did something along these lines once and I was mad, but I never dreamed of punishing, controling or humliating him. I love him and therefore did not want those things, like all healthy couples.