Need Advice: My Girlfriend is Going to a Wedding as Another Man''s

[wishful]

Date: 6/17/2008 6:17:13 PM
Author: AFC

--I think I have a solution (and I would like to hear what you all think):

I will not prevent her from going to the wedding. Even if she would allow me to prevent her, this would not be the right thing to do.
From my perspective, the problem is that she used poor judgement, upset me (unintentionally), and (the greatest sin of all) has
been playing a very strong defense in order to prevent admitting any wrongdoing. I think she is embarrased and upset because, as
several people pointed out, not only did she not think I would have a problem with her attendance, she is worried that I will
hold a grudge against her and change the dynamic of the relationship in some unforeseen way. I won''t do that, because I really
do want to work things out.

So, neither party wants to apologize and we are at an impasse. I should thank everyone here for reminding me that her feelings
matter just as much as mine--and independent of who is right or wrong--I do owe her an apology for the grief she is feeling. She
will get that apology. I will tell her not to change her plans. I will tell her why I feel the way I do. I will use the word
''disrespect,'' but I will make sure she knows that I do not think she made me feel this way intentionally. The weekend of the
wedding, I will not see her. That is for my comfort, and not hers, but it is based on the premise that if I do not acknowledge
the situation, it will be easier for both of us. After that, we have at least a couple of tickets left to a sporting event. A close
friend of Jena''s has indicated that she has always wanted to go to this sporting event. I will ask my girlfriend to give her two
tickets that we would have used so Jena''s friend can go (the only rule is that she cannot take either me or my girlfriend).
This probably sounds odd, so let me explain my logic. The first part of the solution I suggested isn''t satisfactory in itself
because it doesn''t really cost my girlfriend anything. She is still going to the wedding, and I simply won''t be happy about it,
even after we''ve said our apologies. I am asking her to forgo one planned evening out, and give that evening to someone
else who can make good use of it. It probably sounds either silly or vindictive (or both), but if she would be willng to do that,
it falls under the category of what Stewart Smalley would call ''an amends'' (the thing you do to make a wrong thing right).
This arrangement also allows me to say that the consequences my girlfriend fears are explicit, and that I will not retaliate
or exact revenge in some unexpected way. If she is willing to do that, then I consider the matter resolved.

Well, I thought I was very magnanimous when I thought this up. What do you think?

It''s never a good idea to do something that makes the other person in the relationship feel bad.
What makes a relationship flourish is by making eachother feel good!
I understand that by her actions (choosing Jena over you) she has disrespected you and made you feel bad.
But two wrongs don''t make a right.

Getting your revenge is only going to make her feel bad and it will take away a small portion of her love for you.

I would seriously sit down with her and tell her that you feel disrespected and you feel uncomofrortable.
Perhaps say that while you cannot stop her from attending this wedding - she needs to know that she does so with out your blessing and with you feeling the way she has made you feel.
Explain to her that you would much rather come up with a soloution that makes BOTH of you happy and try to focus your energy on making that happen.

 

[Dancing Fire]

this is B.S......

Tell "Jeff" to find his own date. you never know what might happen after a few drinks.

 

[musey]

Woooooooooooooww.

I have to agree with all the other PSers telling you to avoid the passive-aggressive/childish/vindictive behavior. Don''t set about ''punishing'' your partner for their perceived wrongdoings. Successful relationships are about communication and compromise, not retribution and ''evening the score.''

 

[simplysplendid]

Hi,

I am going to be blunt - I think it is inappropriate behaviour on the part of your girlfriend. It demonstrates immaturity on her part and there is a possibility that she likes Jeff. I am not trying to fan fires here, but in my opinion, ladies generally do not go on dates with people they don''t like, be it a real date or not. And yes, the booze can lead to flirting and even more, if I were in your shoes, I would hate it even if there is flirting. I reckon if she was in your shoes, she probably wouldn''t like it too. Whoever dictates that wedding must be attended with dates? Jena can decline the invite if she is really uncomfortable that Paul is there and Jeff can attend the wedding with Paul.

 

[AFC]

You guys are good! And my proposed solution sucks!!!

We just talked and she told me that she felt like she was being punished. We tried to sort things out, but the problem we are having is that we still see the situation pretty much from our own points of view. Honestly, I can repeat verbatim exactly the way she feels, and it doesn''t change the way I feel one bit. Obviously, this is a problem.

Oh, she cancelled for the wedding. I told her that it doesn''t really change my feelings, but she said she was doing it for herself, and not for my sake. We are headed for some rough waters. I do hope we get through them. I care about her very much.

Any more advice? There have been some gems in this thread so far.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 6/17/2008 6:39:18 PM
Author: Circe
It sounds like you've thought about this a lot, and I agree with a lot of what you say concerning your reaction and feelings... but not with your plan, because it's not a solution. It's a punishment, out and out. It's the grown-up equivalent of a spanking, and, I have to say, if anyone I'd ever dated had tried to pull something this passive aggressive on me ... I wouldn't be with them anymore. You sound like a cool guy overall, but you really need to think this one through a little more: if you don't want to see her that weekend, that's up to you, but asking her to participate in this demeaning little ritual? Setting conditions for who uses the tickets, and how, so as to make her complicit in the humiliation? Erk.

I don't think it's controlling, per se, to tell her that you feel uncomfortable with this, and to tell her you'd rather she didn't do it, to explain that you feel disrespected, and to listen to her counter-argument, if she has one. It's actually the mature way to handle it, to reach a solution that both people can be happy with. It is NOT the mature thing to do to make sure that both people are equally miserable. And, if there's an amend to be made, shouldn't she be the one to propose it? A relationship shouldn't function as quid pro quo.

It's controlling to try to manipulate her reactions, which is what the ticket thing amounts to: it's not like your only choices are enact vengeance now, or hold it over her head till later. There's the alternative of, y'know, working to find a solution that you're both okay with. The thing that reads as controlling here is, you're figuring out all the solutions without actually TALKING to her: you're setting the conditions, without her input. And that's ... not a relationship between equals. It's actually damned unhealthy.

If she chooses to go to the wedding because she's committed to her friend and you don't want to see her that weekend to attend the event, just sell the tickets on Craigslist, or give them to someone, no strings attached. If she apologizes, choose to forgive her, or not, as you see fit. But, please, don't insult her by withholding a treat as if she's an ill-behaved little girl.

+1.

i obviously don't agree with her choice but your plan is not only disrespectful, its demeaning. if you don't want to see her that weekend, then don't.....but haven't you had enough of friends doing for friends and feelings getting hurt? why involve anyone else in this mess?

you say you love her but marriage plans just aren't happening. i hope you've been honest about that with her.

eta: written before your last post!

 

[movie zombie]

rough waters are not necessarily a bad things: opportunity comes from these times. you''ve both learned something about the other that perhaps needed to be learned. how about some cooling off time before trying to talk about it again?

movie zombie

 

[Circe]

Thanks, Deco (and Movie Zombie - we cross-posted)!

AFC, I'm glad you guys could talk honestly, and I'm glad you're not going through with The Plan. What you're talking about, with the understanding the other persons position, but fundamentally disagreeing with it? That's really familiar to me. I'm stubborn as hell, opinionated, and married to ... the male version of me. We butt heads on everything you can imagine. The best solution I've found is to try, as deliberately and as fairly as possible, to put yourself in the other person's shoes. Try to erase as many of the "I" thoughts as possible, get into their head, and see which parts are vaguely comprehensible to you. And ask *her* to do the exact same thing ... it won't solve all your problems, but a conscious effort towards empathy/identification might help with a lot of them. Don;t concentrate on how you've been mistreated: concentrate on what *they* were thinking when they took whatever action it was that hurt you. Unless it was malice aforethought, it's generally a balm of sorts. Also, you might consider couples counseling for specific techniques to employ.

P.S. - This may be overstepping the bounds of your question, but since it's kinda seemed like a pattern in your posts ... start treating her like an equal. Maybe, generally speaking, you do, but in your posts concerning this issue, it's seemed like there's a kind of an expectation on your part as to who makes the rules, and who obeys them. Could be age, could be gender, could just be a naturally forceful personality on your part, but that kind of imbalance tends to engender resentment and confusion, and that sounds like exactly what you *don't* want.

 

[swingirl]

I am married and if my best friend asked me to double-date with her and some guy she''s not interested and his friend, I''d say "no thank you. I''m all done dating."

If I wasn''t done dating, like for instance if I was young and wanted to get married but I was seeing someone who was older and not interested in getting married, then I''d probably want to keep my option open.

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/17/2008 8:11:35 PM
Author: swingirl
I am married and if my best friend asked me to double-date with her and some guy she''s not interested and his friend, I''d say ''no thank you. I''m all done dating.''


If I wasn''t done dating, like for instance if I was young and wanted to get married but I was seeing someone who was older and not interested in getting married, then I''d probably want to keep my option open.

Ditto.

It seems like this is kind of a "campsite rule" issue (I don''t know if anybody else is an avid reader of Dan Savage).

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/17/2008 3:16:14 PM
Author: LAJennifer

Date: 6/17/2008 2:56:54 PM
Author: purrfectpear
The crux of the matter to me, is that Jena doesn''t even like this guy.

I could see your GF going along to facilitate Jena''s attendance if it was important to Jena because Jena had a crush on the new guy...but that''s not the case here. In truth there is NO REASON AT ALL for Jena to be accepting a date with a guy she has no feelings for, much less for your GF to need to tag along.

It''s that simple. Jena is using the guy to party. She''s dragging your GF into it to have an additional friend to party with. I don''t think you need to be jealous to think the whole scenario is a little ridiculous. I think your GF should bow out, and if she''s of a mind to - she could suggest to Jena that dating guys you don''t care about is called ''leading them on'' or ''using''

This is exactly what I was thinking. Are Jena and your GF friends with the Bride and Groom? If not, they have no business attending the wedding as dates of guys they are not interested in.

A big ditto to all of this as well as jewelerman''s post. Jena has no business going or asking your girlfriend to be someone''s date!! She sounds pretty self-centered to me. Not to mention she is leading on a guy she doesn''t even like! Anyway, the guys do NOT have to have dates as there will likely be other single girls at the wedding. There''s no way I''d be happy if this happened to me. I trust my husband but it is not appropriate for someone in a committed relationship to go on a date with someone else.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, now I read the rest of the thread. I am glad you are rethinking the retaliation part of the equation. You don''t need to act immaturely back.

The reason I think there are so many divorces is that people won''t think of the other person above themselves sometimes. She should have said she was sorry she hurt you and that she was sorry even though she had no intent of doing anything wrong. And you should have told her that you care about her and when people are in a committed relationship, you feel that there has to be an agreement of not dating others, but you are sorry you upset her. Of course, at some point she may wonder about your intent for the future, and I don''t blame her for that either. You guys really need to learn to talk and consider the feelings of the other.

 

[AFC]

Here is Dan Savage''s campsite rule:

With regard to readers that are in relationships with a large age disparity, Savage promotes his "campsite rule": at the end of the relationship, the elder partner
should leave the younger in "better shape than they found them."

That gave me a good laugh!

I just had a mini-revelation: my girlfriend doesn''t really want to go to the wedding because she thinks she is being a good friend, but I think she has convinced herself that she thinks that. She wants to go because she thinks she will have a good time. She wants to have a good time. She needs to have a good time. Jeff doesn''t mean anything to her, but my objection to her going with him--"date" or no--is more than likely an unstated complaint about how I have gotten between her and a good time. THAT, in a nutshell, is why she reacts in a way that is 10x what I would consider to be a reasonable reaction when I tell her that I''m not comfortable with the situation: it''s like I''m telling her "you''re having a good time impinges on my sense of decency." It took me a long time to realize this, but...I think it''s the crux of the problem here. Well, now I will have to make it up to her, because I really do not want to stand in between her and having a good time.

Agree? Disagree? Want to write down relevant passages from Freud so they are part of the official record?

 

[Circe]

Date: 6/17/2008 10:20:36 PM
Author: AFC
I just had a mini-revelation: my girlfriend doesn''t really want to go to the wedding because she thinks she is being a good friend, but I think she has convinced herself that she thinks that. She wants to go because she thinks she will have a good time. She wants to have a good time. She needs to have a good time. Jeff doesn''t mean anything to her, but my objection to her going with him--''date'' or no--is more than likely an unstated complaint about how I have gotten between her and a good time. THAT, in a nutshell, is why she reacts in a way that is 10x what I would consider to be a reasonable reaction when I tell her that I''m not comfortable with the situation: it''s like I''m telling her ''you''re having a good time impinges on my sense of decency.'' It took me a long time to realize this, but...I think it''s the crux of the problem here. Well, now I will have to make it up to her, because I really do not want to stand in between her and having a good time.


Agree? Disagree? Want to write down relevant passages from Freud so they are part of the official record?

Uh, dude? You''re doing it again ....

What''s "it," you ask? Well, it''s infantalizing your GF.

I''m pretty sure that having a good time was probably part of the equation, but you''re now consciously ignoring everything she SAID and overwriting it with what you THINK. The first time around, it was the more negative interpretation that she wanted to attend for nefarious/disrespectful reasons ... this time, it''s that she just doesn''t know her own mind and just wanted to go to the shiny, pretty party. Why not actually listen to what she *says*?

Giving her some kind of a substitute prize doesn''t actually solve the problem any more than taking the tickets away did (though it is, admittedly, nicer): communicating with her might.

P.S. - Funny you should mention Freud: I''ve been reading him all day. Is it that obvious?

P.P.S. - How is her reaction 10X what you''d think was reasonable? Within a day, she canceled! What would she need to do to achieve reason, travel back in time?

 

[VRBeauty]

Date: 6/17/2008 10:20:36 PM
Author: AFC
Here is Dan Savage''s campsite rule:

With regard to readers that are in relationships with a large age disparity, Savage promotes his ''campsite rule'': at the end of the relationship, the elder partner
should leave the younger in ''better shape than they found them.''

That gave me a good laugh!

I just had a mini-revelation: my girlfriend doesn''t really want to go to the wedding because she thinks she is being a good friend, but I think she has convinced herself that she thinks that. She wants to go because she thinks she will have a good time. She wants to have a good time. She needs to have a good time. Jeff doesn''t mean anything to her, but my objection to her going with him--''date'' or no--is more than likely an unstated complaint about how I have gotten between her and a good time. THAT, in a nutshell, is why she reacts in a way that is 10x what I would consider to be a reasonable reaction when I tell her that I''m not comfortable with the situation: it''s like I''m telling her ''you''re having a good time impinges on my sense of decency.'' It took me a long time to realize this, but...I think it''s the crux of the problem here. Well, now I will have to make it up to her, because I really do not want to stand in between her and having a good time.

Agree? Disagree? Want to write down relevant passages from Freud so they are part of the official record?

I think there are a lot of problems here, starting with... Darn, I don''t even know where to start.

You know you don''t want to get married but you think your GF does. Uh... if your relationship is committed enough that you feel disrespected if she attends a wedding with someone else (I wouldn''t call what you described a date, by the way)... shouldn''t you at least know whether marriage is something she wants? Does she know your feelings on the subject?

Won''t go into the forced amends thing... I think Circe covered that nicely.

And now it sounds like you don''t trust her to know her own motivations, and that you''re willing to disregard your own feeling of having been disrespected because you now believe that the girl just wanted to have a good time.

It all smells like a mess to me.

And the campfire rule thing sounds patronizing.

 

[Independent Gal]

From the sounds of it, your girlfriend is being disrespectful. While I don't think there's anything wrong with going to a party with a male friend (as Pandora does), I do think she should definitely have asked you your feelings about it first.

That said, it sounds like you are being VERY controlling and unreasonable in your response, as some of the ladies have said. If you treated me that way, I'd be pretty freaking pissed off with you.

It does sound like there's a seriously unequal power dynamic in this relationship, which does sometimes (but not always) come along with a big age gap.

Of COURSE she wants to have a good time. Why shouldn't she? Although, at someone else's expense at someone's wedding... maybe childish.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, does she not ever have a good time when she goes out with you? I think if she never has a good time and she knows you don''t want to marry her, then I might decide to go out with Jeff, too!

 

[princesss]

Glad it gave you a laugh.

Seriously, though, don''t you think there''s a chance she sees *you* as the one who''s reacting 10x what she would consider appropriate?

 

[movie zombie]

dude, you''re overthinking the situation. get a grip. you were right to think she overstepped a boundary of a committed relationship but now you''re obsessing: accept it for what it is and move on, she made a mistake and changed her mind and it was a learning lesson for you both. if this is going to eat you up this way after she''s decided to not go to the wedding, then you need to start looking at yourself, not her.

if you really think she''s resenting you for getting in the way of a good time then maybe you don''t have the relationship you want.....or maybe she''s figured out you''re not going to marry her and she wants to party and still see you. or maybe you want the benefits of a committed relationship without having to get married. i''m beginning to wonder if she unconsciously set this mess up to get everything out on the table....we women sometimes do that.

movie zombie

 

[dockman3]

Wow, that just took me about 15 minutes to read the whole thread. It sounds like a very simple problem to me. You just need to relax a little bit and trust your gf. You said that she''s hung out with this group as friends before when you''re not there, right? Well going to this wedding is the same thing. She''s going with her group of friends to have a good time at a wedding. Let her have a good time. I''m sure she just said she''s going as his "date" because that''s what you say. You bring a "date" to a wedding. This Jeff guy has to know that she''s in a committed relationship, so I''m pretty sure he''s not expecting anything. If I were in your shoes, I would trust my gf enough to go on her own and not hook up with somebody. I know your gf has already canceled out of the wedding, but there shouldn''t be any repercussions from her acts. She should be allowed to have a life of her own and shouldn''t have to ask your permission to go to a party she was invited to. She''s a big girl now and can make her own decisions.

 

[wishful]

Date: 6/17/2008 10:20:36 PM
Author: AFC
Here is Dan Savage's campsite rule:

With regard to readers that are in relationships with a large age disparity, Savage promotes his 'campsite rule': at the end of the relationship, the elder partner
should leave the younger in 'better shape than they found them.'

That gave me a good laugh!

I just had a mini-revelation: my girlfriend doesn't really want to go to the wedding because she thinks she is being a good friend, but I think she has convinced herself that she thinks that. She wants to go because she thinks she will have a good time. She wants to have a good time. She needs to have a good time. Jeff doesn't mean anything to her, but my objection to her going with him--'date' or no--is more than likely an unstated complaint about how I have gotten between her and a good time. THAT, in a nutshell, is why she reacts in a way that is 10x what I would consider to be a reasonable reaction when I tell her that I'm not comfortable with the situation: it's like I'm telling her 'you're having a good time impinges on my sense of decency.' It took me a long time to realize this, but...I think it's the crux of the problem here. Well, now I will have to make it up to her, because I really do not want to stand in between her and having a good time.

Agree? Disagree? Want to write down relevant passages from Freud so they are part of the official record?

You should be the sorce of her good times.
Thank her for being sensitive to your feelings and canceling the wedding...then take her out to a nice dinner and evening of dancing or something else that both of you think is fun!
Enjoy eachother!

 

[AFC]

My girlfriend and I have now come full circle and had the talk that will take this issue out of the foreground for a long time. I hope it doesn''t linger in the background, but I wouldn''t call it resolved. We both think we are right. We both can be right, too, because the issue here is how we are reacting to each other''s state of mind, not who has more points on the board at the end of the game. She still doesn''t think she did anything wrong, and she told me that she is angry at me for trying to punish her for something she really thinks is not a big deal. There are questions that are not going to be resolved; most importnat: if I think it is a big deal, then what? (Do we have to decide that one of us is right once and for all? Because that....is not going to happen.) The essence of the problem is that we are not of the same mind, and the wedding isn''t the thing we were really arguing about. Simply stated, my complaint was: "How could you do something that hurt my feelings?" Her response was something like: "I didn''t DO anything, but I''m sorry I hurt your feelings."

You have been hard on me, but you--all of you--have helped me enormously. I told my girlfriend that I turned to the Internet for advice, that I picked a place where I would more than likely get more female perspectives, since I felt that I needed to come as close to her mind as possible. I told her you describe me as the type of person that no one would want to date. She told me that she loved me, in spite of the flaws you all pointed out. Do you know how good that feels? You should.

I will keep telling myself that it doesn''t matter who is right. I will also tell myself that this was an argument about her freedom and right to do as she pleases. I will have to give her more freedom, and I will have to let her do as she pleases. Those of you who called my girlfriend immature and inconsiderate were right. She can be. I do not believe that she means to be, and that makes a HUGE difference.

This whole ordeal has been almost as emotionally trying as graduate school. I had some of the worst times of my life there. But I look back on that time of my life fondly.

Thank you all again. I could not have gotten to this point without you.

 

[Bliss]

I really feel for you! It sounds like you really love your gf and want to support her wishes. But she's really crossing the line, in my opinion. And I don't feel as though you are standing in the way of her "having a good time."

In a relationship, it's about the couple. I would have a VERY hard time yukking it up with some dude if my FI were at home worrying and feeling disrespected. No way in heck would I go out and party at the expense of his feelings. I think she needs to factor in your feelings if she's serious about being a couple. Otherwise, she's acting like she's single -- doing whatever she wants without answering to anyone. But being in a couple is not me first. It's US first. Ya know?

ETA: Glad you did away with the "punishment" thing. That would definitely not fly. Two wrongs don't make a right!

 

[Bliss]

Oh! You reached a resolution! Great.

And yes, both of you can agree to disagree. Who knows? This might have shed more light on each others'' dynamics and boundaries. So it could be a good thing!

 

[simplysplendid]

Date: 6/18/2008 1:05:13 PM
Author: AFC
My girlfriend and I have now come full circle and had the talk that will take this issue out of the foreground for a long time. I hope it doesn''t linger in the background, but I wouldn''t call it resolved. We both think we are right. We both can be right, too, because the issue here is how we are reacting to each other''s state of mind, not who has more points on the board at the end of the game. She still doesn''t think she did anything wrong, and she told me that she is angry at me for trying to punish her for something she really thinks is not a big deal. There are questions that are not going to be resolved; most importnat: if I think it is a big deal, then what? (Do we have to decide that one of us is right once and for all? Because that....is not going to happen.) The essence of the problem is that we are not of the same mind, and the wedding isn''t the thing we were really arguing about. Simply stated, my complaint was: ''How could you do something that hurt my feelings?'' Her response was something like: ''I didn''t DO anything, but I''m sorry I hurt your feelings.''

You have been hard on me, but you--all of you--have helped me enormously. I told my girlfriend that I turned to the Internet for advice, that I picked a place where I would more than likely get more female perspectives, since I felt that I needed to come as close to her mind as possible. I told her you describe me as the type of person that no one would want to date. She told me that she loved me, in spite of the flaws you all pointed out. Do you know how good that feels? You should.

I will keep telling myself that it doesn''t matter who is right. I will also tell myself that this was an argument about her freedom and right to do as she pleases. I will have to give her more freedom, and I will have to let her do as she pleases. Those of you who called my girlfriend immature and inconsiderate were right. She can be. I do not believe that she means to be, and that makes a HUGE difference.

This whole ordeal has been almost as emotionally trying as graduate school. I had some of the worst times of my life there. But I look back on that time of my life fondly.

Thank you all again. I could not have gotten to this point without you.

I was with you earlier that it is bad judgement on her part to want to go for a "date" with Jeff. Since she cancelled on the wedding, this should no longer be a big deal, why do you still think this is unresolved? Are you the type that brings back old quarrels and issues whenever you have a disagreement? And since her plans are cancelled, this episode should be a very small matter -- you have lots more to worry about in a committed relationship that leads somewhere. It is true that she did not do anything to hurt you if she has cancelled her plans and it is graceful of her to apologise to you for making you feel hurt even though I don''t know why you are still feeling so.

Get over it. It is no longer a big deal since she has already cancelled her plans. Harping on it will makes you petty and controlling.

 

[steph72276]

This whole situation is weird. When you''re in a committed relationship with someone, you don''t go on dates with other people. Period. Sorry, but sounds like she might like this other dude since she agreed to go as his date.

 

[sevens one]

Date: 6/18/2008 1:05:13 PM
Author: AFC
My girlfriend and I have now come full circle and had the talk that will take this issue out of the foreground for a long time. I hope it doesn''t linger in the background, but I wouldn''t call it resolved. We both think we are right. We both can be right, too, because the issue here is how we are reacting to each other''s state of mind, not who has more points on the board at the end of the game. She still doesn''t think she did anything wrong, and she told me that she is angry at me for trying to punish her for something she really thinks is not a big deal. There are questions that are not going to be resolved; most importnat: if I think it is a big deal, then what? (Do we have to decide that one of us is right once and for all? Because that....is not going to happen.) The essence of the problem is that we are not of the same mind, and the wedding isn''t the thing we were really arguing about. Simply stated, my complaint was: ''How could you do something that hurt my feelings?'' Her response was something like: ''I didn''t DO anything, but I''m sorry I hurt your feelings.''

You have been hard on me, but you--all of you--have helped me enormously. I told my girlfriend that I turned to the Internet for advice, that I picked a place where I would more than likely get more female perspectives, since I felt that I needed to come as close to her mind as possible. I told her you describe me as the type of person that no one would want to date. She told me that she loved me, in spite of the flaws you all pointed out. Do you know how good that feels? You should.

I will keep telling myself that it doesn''t matter who is right. I will also tell myself that this was an argument about her freedom and right to do as she pleases. I will have to give her more freedom, and I will have to let her do as she pleases. Those of you who called my girlfriend immature and inconsiderate were right. She can be. I do not believe that she means to be, and that makes a HUGE difference.

This whole ordeal has been almost as emotionally trying as graduate school. I had some of the worst times of my life there. But I look back on that time of my life fondly.

Thank you all again. I could not have gotten to this point without you.

thanks goodness you don''t want to marry her or anyone else. (I hope she knows this)

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/17/2008 10:45:14 PM
Author: Circe

P.P.S. - How is her reaction 10X what you''d think was reasonable? Within a day, she canceled! What would she need to do to achieve reason, travel back in time?

Ok, I admittedly only skimmed this thread, but caught this. Hilarious!

 

[Elegant]

I''ve been with my boyfriend for 15 years (today is our anniversary...and yes I said boyfriend - that''s another story)

. Even when we were first dating and seeing only each other, I would have never agreed to go out with another guy...I mean, in my opinion, that was wrong on her part for agreeing. Had the shoe been on the other foot, I don''t think she would have been happy either.

I hope all goes well, but it doesn''t look as if the trust is there to build a further relationship on, or is there? Just my opinion, but in order to have a strong relationship, yeah, there''s fighting, some disagreements, but you have to be able to trust the person you are with...

 

[Circe]

Date: 6/18/2008 1:05:13 PM
Author: AFC
My girlfriend and I have now come full circle and had the talk that will take this issue out of the foreground for a long time. I hope it doesn''t linger in the background, but I wouldn''t call it resolved. We both think we are right. We both can be right, too, because the issue here is how we are reacting to each other''s state of mind, not who has more points on the board at the end of the game. She still doesn''t think she did anything wrong, and she told me that she is angry at me for trying to punish her for something she really thinks is not a big deal. There are questions that are not going to be resolved; most importnat: if I think it is a big deal, then what? (Do we have to decide that one of us is right once and for all? Because that....is not going to happen.) The essence of the problem is that we are not of the same mind, and the wedding isn''t the thing we were really arguing about. Simply stated, my complaint was: ''How could you do something that hurt my feelings?'' Her response was something like: ''I didn''t DO anything, but I''m sorry I hurt your feelings.''


You have been hard on me, but you--all of you--have helped me enormously. I told my girlfriend that I turned to the Internet for advice, that I picked a place where I would more than likely get more female perspectives, since I felt that I needed to come as close to her mind as possible. I told her you describe me as the type of person that no one would want to date. She told me that she loved me, in spite of the flaws you all pointed out. Do you know how good that feels? You should.


I will keep telling myself that it doesn''t matter who is right. I will also tell myself that this was an argument about her freedom and right to do as she pleases. I will have to give her more freedom, and I will have to let her do as she pleases. Those of you who called my girlfriend immature and inconsiderate were right. She can be. I do not believe that she means to be, and that makes a HUGE difference.


This whole ordeal has been almost as emotionally trying as graduate school. I had some of the worst times of my life there. But I look back on that time of my life fondly.


Thank you all again. I could not have gotten to this point without you.

While I''m very happy that you and your GF have resolved this incident ... does the phrase "world''s tiniest violin" say anything to you? When you boil this whole thing down to its components, we have:

1) Your GF agreeing to accompany her friend to a wedding as some dude''s "date" - a phrase that, in this context, does not imply a candle-lit dinner, does not imply a carriage-ride in the park, does not imply *romance*, but that can be translated to "guest," "escort," or, if you''re really old-school and kinda gender-blind, "walker";

2) Your being offended by the terminology that she employs, first and foremost (at some point, you said if she''d "guest" instead of "date," you would have been fine with it), but you''re also worried she might cheat on you, for reasons that were never really made clear;

3) You dictating the terms of communication on the topic (or presenting it that way to us, at first - I can see wanting to talk things out in person, but the whole "putting an end to the conversation" and not taking her calls still kinda sticks in my craw) and then trying out the Great Punishment Amend(ment) of ''08;

4) A whole bunch of people on this site jumping up and down making the universal gesture for "Ix-nay! Ix-nay!" followed up by a whole bunch of people observing that there''s something maybe a little wonky about the dynamic you''ve described, and all the terminology you employ - "letting" her do this or that.

All that said, I don''t think anybody here said that you were unworthy of dating, the Anti-Christ, or even a particularly bad guy: just kinda out of line with your expectations, and coming across as potentially domineering/controlling. I know everything''s subjective, but if this was an "ordeal" (or comparable to your grad. school experience, which, admittedly, does generally tend to involve a lot of self-manufactured drama), maybe you should once again rethink the possibility of counseling, couples or otherwise? ''Cause, speaking as a bystander, it looks like you''re creating most of the angst yourself by needing to take it Exactly Your Way, or Not At All ....