Ladies - Did you change your last name?

[Laila619]

I am all for women keeping their maiden (i.e. father's) last name, but isn't it a bit hypocritical to not give your children their father's last name? Of course, anyone can do whatever they want and whatever makes them happy; I was just curious.

I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at. A lot of the women who have said that they want to keep their name listed a ton of reasons other than wanting to keep their father's last name because it was their father's (and mother's if she took it when she got married).

I know I said on page 2 in my post about my decision that I did it in part because of my father, but it was more because of his reaction to my change, not really simply because it was his name.

Oh I know. But I thought I read that a few ladies wanted to keep their maiden names, but they did not necessarily want their own children to take her husband's/the childrens' father's last name. So I wondered if that was a bit hypocritical that the woman wants to keep her father's name (i.e. her maiden) but she doesn't grant her own kids the privilege of bearing their father's name. Does that make sense? Sorry for the confusion!

ETA: Just read your post above, Octavia. I understand your POV. Thanks for explaining.

 

[Jennifer W]

Just as Octavia put it. It's not my father's name, particularly. It's mine. I don't care where it came from, just that I have it, and that it is my real and only name. As I see it (or more accurately, feel it) I could call myself something, anything else, but it would never be my real name. I'll have the same name on my death certificate as I had on my birth certificate, same as most men will. That is important, for my own self respect if nothing else.

 

[50shadesofblack]

The one thing that REALLY bugs me is being referred to as "Mrs NewLastName". I got my PhD before we married, so I went from Dr X to Dr Y. At our wedding we were even referred to once as Mr and Dr NewLastName. I was never, nor will ever be, a Mrs (and I realise that sounds pedantic and conceited but that's how I feel). THAT is the identity issue I have the biggest time wrapping my head around.

I thought it was supposed to be Dr. And Mr. Lastname?

I read somewhere that if the female has an academic degree you call her with, it bumps her above husband.
Also, if both first names are involved, it should be addressed as Her and Him Lastname.

I found it interesting since I'd like to get my PhD after the wedding and I know this would bug him a bit.

Am i mistaken in this? I dont know much about addressing ettiquette.

 

[Clairitek]

I am all for women keeping their maiden (i.e. father's) last name, but isn't it a bit hypocritical to not give your children their father's last name? Of course, anyone can do whatever they want and whatever makes them happy; I was just curious.

I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at. A lot of the women who have said that they want to keep their name listed a ton of reasons other than wanting to keep their father's last name because it was their father's (and mother's if she took it when she got married).

I know I said on page 2 in my post about my decision that I did it in part because of my father, but it was more because of his reaction to my change, not really simply because it was his name.

Oh I know. But I thought I read that a few ladies wanted to keep their maiden names, but they did not necessarily want their own children to take her husband's/the childrens' father's last name. So I wondered if that was a bit hypocritical that the woman wants to keep her father's name (i.e. her maiden) but she doesn't grant her own kids the privilege of bearing their father's name. Does that make sense? Sorry for the confusion!

ETA: Just read your post above, Octavia. I understand your POV. Thanks for explaining.

Shrug. Honestly? Not really. What makes bearing the father's a privilege? I guess maybe I am doing my future kids a disservice by forcing them to have my family name AND DH's family name on their birth certificate?

Edited to fix a typo.

 

[Clairitek]

The one thing that REALLY bugs me is being referred to as "Mrs NewLastName". I got my PhD before we married, so I went from Dr X to Dr Y. At our wedding we were even referred to once as Mr and Dr NewLastName. I was never, nor will ever be, a Mrs (and I realise that sounds pedantic and conceited but that's how I feel). THAT is the identity issue I have the biggest time wrapping my head around.

I thought it was supposed to be Dr. And Mr. Lastname?

I read somewhere that if the female has an academic degree you call her with, it bumps her above husband.
Also, if both first names are involved, it should be addressed as Her and Him Lastname.

I found it interesting since I'd like to get my PhD after the wedding and I know this would bug him a bit.

Am i mistaken in this? I dont know much about addressing ettiquette.

I do think you're correct in the addressing etiquette when the woman has a doctorate.

 

[Octavia]

The one thing that REALLY bugs me is being referred to as "Mrs NewLastName". I got my PhD before we married, so I went from Dr X to Dr Y. At our wedding we were even referred to once as Mr and Dr NewLastName. I was never, nor will ever be, a Mrs (and I realise that sounds pedantic and conceited but that's how I feel). THAT is the identity issue I have the biggest time wrapping my head around.

I thought it was supposed to be Dr. And Mr. Lastname?

I read somewhere that if the female has an academic degree you call her with, it bumps her above husband.
Also, if both first names are involved, it should be addressed as Her and Him Lastname.

I found it interesting since I'd like to get my PhD after the wedding and I know this would bug him a bit.

Am i mistaken in this? I dont know much about addressing ettiquette.

If you're being really old-school technical, only M.D.s are addressed as "Dr." PhDs are addressed as "Ms.," "Mr.," etc. And a married woman is always "Mrs." regardless of her degrees or other title (i.e. "The Honorable" if she is a judge). However, newfangled etiquette varies depending on who gives the advice. Most sources now say its acceptable to call PhDs "Dr." and a woman should be given her proper title. It's kind of messy, though, which is why I try to use informal address and avoid titles entirely unless it can't be helped. I just cannot bring myself to write "Mr. and Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast" regardless of how "correct" it is.

 

[ladypirate]

Ditto Claritek--I don't understand why it's any more a privilege for kids to have their father's name than it is for them to have mine.

 

[zoebartlett]

Question for you all...do you think that women who change are seen as less independent? Do you think this affects job prospects?

Not at all.

Actually though, slg, this question for those in PhD programs or teaching at the college level? I can't imagine the answer would be yes to either of those questions, but I don't have that experience.

 

[lulu66]

I didn't change my name, for a lot of reasons already mentioned, plus I'm lazy.

I told him I"d change my last name to his if he let me pick out a new first name for him. It's only fair. I was going to rename him Logan.

i love this. i should have brought that up

 

[amc80]

It's not that hard. I had my name changed by deed poll when I was eight. I fancied a different first name and my parents are way cool

When you change your name in the US without going to court I believe you are still legally known by your original name (you gain an alias, really). So one of your legal names is still on your passport. I didn't change my name on my passport until just recently when my old one was going to expire. I traveled internationally 2 times after getting married and changing my name with SS and the DMV (credit cards still havent changed and probably never will). I just had to make sure that I booked my ticket under my former name so that it matched my passport. There is nothing illegal about traveling on my old passport (when it was still valid) with my old name on it.

Sorry, I don't mean to imply that it is illegal to travel under the name listed on your passport. All I'm saying is that, should anything happen, the name on the passport, which is the only form of valid ID, would not be your legal name. It might also be an issue with getting a visa to travel to certain countries. Now, I don't know about the US and whether you're still known by your original name so I can't comment on it (that's certainly not how things work back home; marriage is about the only thing that allows you to legally change your name without going to court).

From what I've heard, as long as you can produce an original bridging document (such as a marriage certificate) you are okay. It's an interesting point, though. I know on any legal type forms they ask for any previous names. So I'm not sure if my previous name disappears, or if it's more of a Firstname Newlastname (formerly known as Oldlastname) sort of deal or not. That would be a great question for someone at the Department of State- if I'm abroad and there's an issue, does it matter that my passport is in my old name? I'm not sure how the records work for that sort of thing.

 

[slg47]

Question for you all...do you think that women who change are seen as less independent? Do you think this affects job prospects?

Not at all.

Actually though, slg, this question for those in PhD programs or teaching at the college level? I can't imagine the answer would be yes to either of those questions, but I don't have that experience.

mostly that is what I was thinking? I have seen some bias from professors against women who choose to change their name.

 

[lulu66]

When you change your name in the US without going to court I believe you are still legally known by your original name (you gain an alias, really). So one of your legal names is still on your passport. I didn't change my name on my passport until just recently when my old one was going to expire. I traveled internationally 2 times after getting married and changing my name with SS and the DMV (credit cards still havent changed and probably never will). I just had to make sure that I booked my ticket under my former name so that it matched my passport. There is nothing illegal about traveling on my old passport (when it was still valid) with my old name on it.

so, clairitek, while my name as been changed to DH's on my marriage license & social security card, my driver's license & passport are still in my maiden name. i've traveled several times since marrying and have booked non-international flights (right after the wedding) under DH's last name and just traveled w/my marriage certificate & driver's license & received no grief. then booked a flight about 6 mos after the wedding, again under DH's last name, still didn't not get my DL updated before the flight, brought along my marriage license & DL, and did receive a slight scolding from TSA. another time, same scenario, the airline ticket agent just changed my ticket name at the counter (w/the marriage license & DL); they had never offered to do this previously even though i always show them both documents. but the past few times, i've just booked under my maiden name & traveled with my DL.

soooo, all of that to ask, is it "illegal" to fly under a name that is on my non-expired DL but is not my last name anymore according to my marriage license & SS card? i was under the impression that what i was doing was kinda of "wrong" but that there was no real way to "catch me" (this is the grief my mother has given me everytime i book a flight. lol.). just curious of outsiders opinions. and if that's the case, i will just keep my passport under my maiden name & book all international flights under that name. (no real point in paying for another one, as i have 7 years or so left on this one.)

 

[Clairitek]

It's not that hard. I had my name changed by deed poll when I was eight. I fancied a different first name and my parents are way cool

When you change your name in the US without going to court I believe you are still legally known by your original name (you gain an alias, really). So one of your legal names is still on your passport. I didn't change my name on my passport until just recently when my old one was going to expire. I traveled internationally 2 times after getting married and changing my name with SS and the DMV (credit cards still havent changed and probably never will). I just had to make sure that I booked my ticket under my former name so that it matched my passport. There is nothing illegal about traveling on my old passport (when it was still valid) with my old name on it.

Sorry, I don't mean to imply that it is illegal to travel under the name listed on your passport. All I'm saying is that, should anything happen, the name on the passport, which is the only form of valid ID, would not be your legal name. It might also be an issue with getting a visa to travel to certain countries. Now, I don't know about the US and whether you're still known by your original name so I can't comment on it (that's certainly not how things work back home; marriage is about the only thing that allows you to legally change your name without going to court).

From what I've heard, as long as you can produce an original bridging document (such as a marriage certificate) you are okay. It's an interesting point, though. I know on any legal type forms they ask for any previous names. So I'm not sure if my previous name disappears, or if it's more of a Firstname Newlastname (formerly known as Oldlastname) sort of deal or not. That would be a great question for someone at the Department of State- if I'm abroad and there's an issue, does it matter that my passport is in my old name? I'm not sure how the records work for that sort of thing.

I believe its what I highlighted above. My mother told me that any time she has a credit check run or they look back into her history through a social security number records search she is asked if all of the possible combinations are her. This includes Jane Maiden, Jane Middle Maiden, Jane Middle Married, Jane Married. Jane Maiden Married- not just the two that she has had on her drivers licence and social security card!

 

[Jennifer W]

Question for you all...do you think that women who change are seen as less independent? Do you think this affects job prospects?

Not at all.

Actually though, slg, this question for those in PhD programs or teaching at the college level? I can't imagine the answer would be yes to either of those questions, but I don't have that experience.

mostly that is what I was thinking? I have seen some bias from professors against women who choose to change their name.

Interesting question. In a typical recruitment situation, I don't think I would know if someone has changed their name or not. If I did know that they had done this, either because their application somehow made it clear, or because I knew them before, I would have to struggle to stop myself from allowing my bias against this practice to influence my decision about a job applicant. I genuinely hope I could do that. I would like to think it wouldn't affect my decision making.

 

[Clairitek]

When you change your name in the US without going to court I believe you are still legally known by your original name (you gain an alias, really). So one of your legal names is still on your passport. I didn't change my name on my passport until just recently when my old one was going to expire. I traveled internationally 2 times after getting married and changing my name with SS and the DMV (credit cards still havent changed and probably never will). I just had to make sure that I booked my ticket under my former name so that it matched my passport. There is nothing illegal about traveling on my old passport (when it was still valid) with my old name on it.

so, clairitek, while my name as been changed to DH's on my marriage license & social security card, my driver's license & passport are still in my maiden name. i've traveled several times since marrying and have booked non-international flights (right after the wedding) under DH's last name and just traveled w/my marriage certificate & driver's license & received no grief. then booked a flight about 6 mos after the wedding, again under DH's last name, still didn't not get my DL updated before the flight, brought along my marriage license & DL, and did receive a slight scolding from TSA. another time, same scenario, the airline ticket agent just changed my ticket name at the counter (w/the marriage license & DL); they had never offered to do this previously even though i always show them both documents. but the past few times, i've just booked under my maiden name & traveled with my DL.

soooo, all of that to ask, is it "illegal" to fly under a name that is on my non-expired DL but is not my last name anymore according to my marriage license & SS card? i was under the impression that what i was doing was kinda of "wrong" but that there was no real way to "catch me" (this is the grief my mother has given me everytime i book a flight. lol.). just curious of outsiders opinions. and if that's the case, i will just keep my passport under my maiden name & book all international flights under that name. (no real point in paying for another one, as i have 7 years or so left on this one.)

Hmm. I think I may have overstepped or misrepresented my knowledge of this stuff! I was speaking from personal experience only. I guess in my mind was that if I can prove who I am one way or another that is a good thing. Which you can, with all of your paperwork. With my experience of traveling on my maiden passport after changing my name in the US I just made sure that my ticket and identification matched. I think that's what TSA is hassling you about. So if you can, I would book tickets in the name that is shown on your identification. Just avoids hassle at the airport.

I've gotten the side-eye a few times because my last name is so long that sometimes it gets partially cut off or my first name is not shown at all. Those agents normally look at me a few times and look at my license a few times and let me through.

The funny time for me was when I flew from PA to RI with my maiden drivers' licence, changed my name on my RI drivers' license (so they took my old one and gave me a piece of paper) and then traveled back to PA with my name changed. In this instance, I brought my passport with me and only showed the TSA agent that.

And I think I misused the words "legal" and "illegal." Though since TSA is a government agency and part of the DHS I can guess that their policies are the law? Hopefully someone who knows more about this can chime in.

 

[Octavia]

Lulu, it's my understanding that the biggest travel issue is the relatively new requirement for the name you book the ticket in to exactly match the name on your ID. The same issue is causing problems for people who go by nicknames or middle names -- while it used to be fine for James Roger Smith to fly as "J.R. Smith," or Henrietta Lucille Doe to fly as "H. Lucy Doe," it's not allowed anymore. From here on out, it's best just to book the tickets under whatever your ID says your name is.

For those who use different names in different places, though, you really should make sure any W-2s, 1099s, etc are under the name that matches your SS card, or your earnings and taxes may not be properly credited. If your state required you to file tax forms, it's possible to face the same issue if your SS card and DL don't match, but that seems to be a less common problem.

 

[lulu66]

Lulu, it's my understanding that the biggest travel issue is the relatively new requirement for the name you book the ticket in to exactly match the name on your ID. The same issue is causing problems for people who go by nicknames or middle names -- while it used to be fine for James Roger Smith to fly as "J.R. Smith," or Henrietta Lucille Doe to fly as "H. Lucy Doe," it's not allowed anymore. From here on out, it's best just to book the tickets under whatever your ID says your name is.

For those who use different names in different places, though, you really should make sure any W-2s, 1099s, etc are under the name that matches your SS card, or your earnings and taxes may not be properly credited. If your state required you to file tax forms, it's possible to face the same issue if your SS card and DL don't match, but that seems to be a less common problem.

thanks!

my w-2s, etc are all in my married/DH's last name. so is my social security card. DL and passport are the last holdouts. i'm just hanging on to that maiden name as long as i can. which will be until my birth month this year b/c my DL officially expires i seriously might cry that day.

 

[Octavia]

And I think I misused the words "legal" and "illegal." Though since TSA is a government agency and part of the DHS I can guess that their policies are the law? Hopefully someone who knows more about this can chime in.

Ctek, the statute passed by congress is the law and agency regulations describe how the law will be interpreted. As long as the agency's interpretation is reasonable, it will stand up in court. So if the statute says, "all passengers must display proof of identity and a valid boarding pass when entering the screening area of an airport," TSA could interpret that to mean "all passengers must present a valid, government-issued identification document which permits the agents to verify that the document and boarding pass were issued to the same individual" and publish a regulation to that effect. So H. Lucy Doe gets to fly hassle-free. TSA then changes its interpretation to be, "the name and birthdate on the government-issued identification document must exactly match those used in booking tickets and displayed on the valid boarding pass" and publishes THAT in the Code of Federal regulations, and poor H. Lucy has to use the dreaded "Henrietta" in all her flight bookings. Its still a reasonable interpretation of the statute and is still the "law" even though the underlying statutory language hasn't changed. Does that make sense?

 

[Haven]

Question for you all...do you think that women who change are seen as less independent? Do you think this affects job prospects?

Not at all.

Actually though, slg, this question for those in PhD programs or teaching at the college level? I can't imagine the answer would be yes to either of those questions, but I don't have that experience.

mostly that is what I was thinking? I have seen some bias from professors against women who choose to change their name.

Interesting. I hope some individuals with experience serving on a university search committee chime in.

I teach in a two-year college. In our recent search committee meetings we discussed a lot of things about the qualified applicants, but marital status and name changes were certainly not one of them. Most of our applicants are PhDs. I can't even recall noticing whether any were married or not.

 

[OCgirl]

Question for you all...do you think that women who change are seen as less independent? Do you think this affects job prospects?

Not at all.

Actually though, slg, this question for those in PhD programs or teaching at the college level? I can't imagine the answer would be yes to either of those questions, but I don't have that experience.

mostly that is what I was thinking? I have seen some bias from professors against women who choose to change their name.

Interesting. I hope some individuals with experience serving on a university search committee chime in.

I teach in a two-year college. In our recent search committee meetings we discussed a lot of things about the qualified applicants, but marital status and name changes were certainly not one of them. Most of our applicants are PhDs. I can't even recall noticing whether any were married or not.

I did read a recent article on female first names. The article stated that females with less *feminine* sounding names tend to be viewed as more likely to succeed in managerial/executive positions when the recruiters are viewing the candidates' resumes alone. The article said names like Molly, Candy, Sara (no offense to anyone) are viewed as more *girly* and less *authoritative* than unisex or less feminine names like Reese, Alexis. I actually thought about it for a while. I discussed this with my fiance to see his thoughts on it. It's kind of off topic but what do you guys think? I guess the point is names (whether first names or last names) do project a certain imagine?

 

[Rhea]

I didn't change my name, for a lot of reasons already mentioned, plus I'm lazy.

I told him I"d change my last name to his if he let me pick out a new first name for him. It's only fair. I was going to rename him Logan.

i love this. i should have brought that up

I now wish DH had asked me what I planned to do or put up a fuss so I could've used this. Sadly, for the purpose of this anyway, he doesn't mind what my name is.

 

[Rhea]

It's not that hard. I had my name changed by deed poll when I was eight. I fancied a different first name and my parents are way cool

When you change your name in the US without going to court I believe you are still legally known by your original name (you gain an alias, really). So one of your legal names is still on your passport. I didn't change my name on my passport until just recently when my old one was going to expire. I traveled internationally 2 times after getting married and changing my name with SS and the DMV (credit cards still havent changed and probably never will). I just had to make sure that I booked my ticket under my former name so that it matched my passport. There is nothing illegal about traveling on my old passport (when it was still valid) with my old name on it.

Sorry, I don't mean to imply that it is illegal to travel under the name listed on your passport. All I'm saying is that, should anything happen, the name on the passport, which is the only form of valid ID, would not be your legal name. It might also be an issue with getting a visa to travel to certain countries. Now, I don't know about the US and whether you're still known by your original name so I can't comment on it (that's certainly not how things work back home; marriage is about the only thing that allows you to legally change your name without going to court).

From what I've heard, as long as you can produce an original bridging document (such as a marriage certificate) you are okay. It's an interesting point, though. I know on any legal type forms they ask for any previous names. So I'm not sure if my previous name disappears, or if it's more of a Firstname Newlastname (formerly known as Oldlastname) sort of deal or not. That would be a great question for someone at the Department of State- if I'm abroad and there's an issue, does it matter that my passport is in my old name? I'm not sure how the records work for that sort of thing.

I'm not sure about other countries, but it doesn't matter one bit for visas, including work, marriage, and travel visas, for those living in the UK. In that situation, you have to book travel tickets on the name in your passport and travel like that, no matter if you're married 2 months or 15 years. My friend's visas are all issued in her old name and to save cost of renewing visas into her new name she simply has kept her passport in her old name and will until it expires. The UK still recognizes the visas it issued to her for the purposes of living and working within it's boarder, but she can't fly with new name as her legal documents are in old name.

 

[Scorpioanne]

Hey, a question that's been on my mind lately ... what're those of you who've hyphenated or who have different last names planning to do about the kids?

I have a double surname, no hyphen. It was both my and my husband's second marriage and we both have kids from our first marriage (my son is an adult) so my name reflects both families and both sets of kids. The cat has a double surname though

I have had many people tell me that I should be an author as my last name is an uppr crusty sounding name like Barrington Smyth - the cat and I sound very posh!

 

[Scorpioanne]

What if women kept their mother's last name and gave it to their daughters . . . & . . . men kept their father's last name and gave it to their sons?

Both genders would be treated with equal respect and every subsequent generation would not have to add yet another hyphenation.

interesting notion...

I know a family that did that. I think it is a great idea!

 

[Haven]

Question for you all...do you think that women who change are seen as less independent? Do you think this affects job prospects?

Not at all.

Actually though, slg, this question for those in PhD programs or teaching at the college level? I can't imagine the answer would be yes to either of those questions, but I don't have that experience.

mostly that is what I was thinking? I have seen some bias from professors against women who choose to change their name.

Interesting. I hope some individuals with experience serving on a university search committee chime in.

I teach in a two-year college. In our recent search committee meetings we discussed a lot of things about the qualified applicants, but marital status and name changes were certainly not one of them. Most of our applicants are PhDs. I can't even recall noticing whether any were married or not.

I did read a recent article on female first names. The article stated that females with less *feminine* sounding names tend to be viewed as more likely to succeed in managerial/executive positions when the recruiters are viewing the candidates' resumes alone. The article said names like Molly, Candy, Sara (no offense to anyone) are viewed as more *girly* and less *authoritative* than unisex or less feminine names like Reese, Alexis. I actually thought about it for a while. I discussed this with my fiance to see his thoughts on it. It's kind of off topic but what do you guys think? I guess the point is names (whether first names or last names) do project a certain imagine?

I've read articles like this, as well. I do think a person's name is going to evoke certain images, feelings, or associations in people, and to some extent there are probably particular sounds that are more feminine or masculine. Or more serious or . . . not.

However, I also think we have highly subjective reactions to names that are based on our individual experiences and beliefs. For example, I had a student named Van many years ago. Prior to meeting this student, I rather liked the name Van. After meeting this particular Van, I just think very awful things whenever that name comes up. I won't go into details, but it's not good.

Likewise, my favorite name for a male is Asher. DH hates the name because all he thinks of when he hears it are gang members yelling "Eff you Asher!" in the halls of his high school. He grew up in the inner-city, and apparently there were a lot of Ashers from a particular country, who frequently pissed off their fellow gang members. And now, my husband hates the name. He graduated high school in 1988, so that association stuck!

So, I don't think you can control how your children's names will be perceived. Unless you control all of the other people walking around with those names and leaving associations in other people's minds.

My name is Lori. In the US, it's just a name. When I studied in England during college, I learned that's what they call trucks. Awesome.

 

[OCgirl]

I actually like the name Lori. It's a nice name.

I have a rather feminine name. It was given by my father for a certain reason. I like it because it has a very special meaning to my family. My last name sounds quite masculine and my fiance's last name is actually a first name last name kind of deal like Dean or Collin. I am not a big fan of first name sounding last names. After I told my fiance about this article he jokingly said, "hey my male first name sounding last name will make your first name sound less feminine." I was like hmmm........

Why can't we just call/tag people using numbers, like your SS#? "Hi, 893-489-8943!" j/k that'd be major identity theft crisis

 

[missy]

I was thrilled to swap my very distinctive, long, hyphenated surname for his short, more anonymous one.

I have a very close family friend who did the same thing. Her maiden name was hyphenated, very long, and each of the two names in it began with McC. (Imagine "McCaffery-McCullen"--not exactly it, but the same sort of mouthful. She was thrilled to drop her maiden name and take on her husband's four-letter surname when they married. It's funny to say her name in both of its forms because the difference is so striking.

These discussions are always very interesting to me because I just don't relate to the feelings so many express about the connection between name and identity. I'm not sure why, and one way is certainly not better than the other.

I also find it interesting that people in general (not necessarily in our discussions here) tend to make judgments about women based on the decision they make in this situation. There always seems to be comments about how more educated or outwardly successful women tend to make one choice while less educated make another. Or, that dropping your maiden name says something about your independence or strength or yadda yadda yadda. I think people on PS are too polite to really say what they think in terms of these matters, but whenever this discussion comes up IRL the judgments are always there, and people are more forthright about making them.

I don't put much stock into using this choice to tell me anything important about an individual, because in my mind it isn't really all that important. I prefer to look at people's behaviors for those types of insights. But I do think it's fascinating, what people really believe about how much this choice reveals about an individual.

I did not mean to offend you Haven. Personally, I earned a doctor degree under my maiden name and that was and is how my patients and colleagues know me. This choice had nothing to do with how smart or dumb I am in any way. My sister changed her name because she wanted to have the same last name as her children. She has as many degrees as I do so again just to reiterate, my choice had nothing to do with feeling smarter or more superior to anyone else. I just noted for the purpose of this discussion though that all my friends with post graduate degrees kept their maiden names and while we never discussed the reasons why it was most likely for the same reason I did. My dh never even wanted me to change my maiden name so it worked out well for us.

Missy--Thank you for your response, but I wasn't responding to your post when I wrote mine. I promise.
When I say I find this interesting, I'm being forthright. I don't find it offensive when people make a particular judgment about my choice, probably because I'm comfortable with my choice and I'm not worried about making other people happy, in general.

I have a general interest about the conclusions we draw about others based on their choices, especially when those choices aren't ones that say anything particularly interesting about them in my opinion. I think it's natural to judge others, and I think it serves thea very real purpose of helping us understand and feel good about the choices we make for ourselves in our own lives. For me, it really gets interesting when the judgments come out about things that seem like non-issues to me. This topic is a good example of that.

I've learned a lot about myself after reflecting on the ways my own reactions differ from others, and a lot of that insight has come from discussions on PS. Very interesting stuff, here.

Thank you Haven. I feel the same way and enjoy most discussions on PS. I find I do learn more from topics where my opinions differ from others and am glad that PSers can share in that way without (for the most part) it degrading into unhappy bickering. Just last night I received an email from a friend asking that we no longer discuss politics for the sake of our friendship and it sort of upset me. She is an older woman whose friendship I value and while I know we differ quite a bit re politics we share many other values and I enjoy(ed) discussing all topics with her. I guess I am hurt because I feel I must have upset her with an email forward I sent her about one of the candidates and it does bother me if my email upset/annoyed her. This woman is a psychologist and so I am surprised she wants to just cut off all communication re politics just because we disagree but I am seeing her today and will definitely ask why she feels that way but I am also going to respect her wishes as I value her friendship.

Missy, that's a tough one. I'm sorry you were upset. I'll be honest - I find it hard to like people who hold particular political opinions. It's because (I'll be completely honest here) I think they're wrong. Ha! Of course I do! I mean, I came to the beliefs and ethics I hold to and try to live by because I thought about them long and hard, and I think they are correct. Don't we all? I find it very hard to reconcile someone holding a view that I might personally find offensive with still liking that person. So sometimes, I've asked people I respect and like not to bring up a particular subject with me so we don't fall out. I personally find it hard to respect certain positions and opinions and hard to stop that spilling into how I feel generally about the person who holds them. I recognise that is my problem but I also know that hashing the topic out won't change my views, so I prefer not to discuss it.

eta, it has to be a big issue - I don't struggle with people having different opinions in general, just one a few big topics. I'm not totally unreasonable...

Thanks for understanding Jennifer. I saw my good friend today and we had a supportive and warm discussion. It turns out she is upset about her son (an ongoing traumatic issue having to do with drug addiction) and she was dealing with something pertaining to that at the time she wrote her email. She apologized (though I ofc told her no apology necessary) and we are good. Though I do agree with you in that sometimes it is best to agree to disagree and move on. I truly love this woman (despite some of her political views) and she and her husband are a modern day Romeo and Juliet. She is a Muslim from Iraq and her dh is an Iranian Jew. They are the most adorable couple. Married over 40 years.

The way I can reconcile being friends with and respecting people who hold different political views comes down to this. Everyone is shaped by so many different events and things in life. The way we were brought up, the people we grew up with, the life events we had to deal with, the hardships we were exposed to, the way we adapted, the successes and failures of life etc. So I realize that while I may not agree with someone I love about every issue I also understand that people are very complex beings who come to hold their beliefs for a lot of good reasons and as long as they are not doing so for malicious/evil reasons why should I take it so personally. I also tend to think it would be boring if we all held the same beliefs about religion/politics/etc. We would be like a Stepford world or something close. Having said that though I do concur it would be much easier if we did agree on most topics and sometimes I do get frustrated having heated discussions with someone on topics we both feel so strongly (in the opposite direction) about. But I try not to take it personally and at times when it gets too upsetting it is best to just agree to disagree and start a more pleasant conversation about something else.

ETA: Wow, I did not mean to make your quote so darn big Jennifer I am not sure how to fix it without totally messing it up though...

 

[Lotus99]

By the way, if you're addressing mail to two doctors who are married (and share the last name), you can use "The Doctors Smith."

You could also use Drs. Jane and John Smith.

 

[Clairitek]

And I think I misused the words "legal" and "illegal." Though since TSA is a government agency and part of the DHS I can guess that their policies are the law? Hopefully someone who knows more about this can chime in.

Ctek, the statute passed by congress is the law and agency regulations describe how the law will be interpreted. As long as the agency's interpretation is reasonable, it will stand up in court. So if the statute says, "all passengers must display proof of identity and a valid boarding pass when entering the screening area of an airport," TSA could interpret that to mean "all passengers must present a valid, government-issued identification document which permits the agents to verify that the document and boarding pass were issued to the same individual" and publish a regulation to that effect. So H. Lucy Doe gets to fly hassle-free. TSA then changes its interpretation to be, "the name and birthdate on the government-issued identification document must exactly match those used in booking tickets and displayed on the valid boarding pass" and publishes THAT in the Code of Federal regulations, and poor H. Lucy has to use the dreaded "Henrietta" in all her flight bookings. Its still a reasonable interpretation of the statute and is still the "law" even though the underlying statutory language hasn't changed. Does that make sense?

It does! Thanks!

 

[Echidna]

The one thing that REALLY bugs me is being referred to as "Mrs NewLastName". I got my PhD before we married, so I went from Dr X to Dr Y. At our wedding we were even referred to once as Mr and Dr NewLastName. I was never, nor will ever be, a Mrs (and I realise that sounds pedantic and conceited but that's how I feel). THAT is the identity issue I have the biggest time wrapping my head around.

I thought it was supposed to be Dr. And Mr. Lastname?

I read somewhere that if the female has an academic degree you call her with, it bumps her above husband.
Also, if both first names are involved, it should be addressed as Her and Him Lastname.

I found it interesting since I'd like to get my PhD after the wedding and I know this would bug him a bit.

Am i mistaken in this? I dont know much about addressing ettiquette.

If you're being really old-school technical, only M.D.s are addressed as "Dr." PhDs are addressed as "Ms.," "Mr.," etc. And a married woman is always "Mrs." regardless of her degrees or other title (i.e. "The Honorable" if she is a judge). However, newfangled etiquette varies depending on who gives the advice. Most sources now say its acceptable to call PhDs "Dr." and a woman should be given her proper title. It's kind of messy, though, which is why I try to use informal address and avoid titles entirely unless it can't be helped. I just cannot bring myself to write "Mr. and Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast" regardless of how "correct" it is.

Ivana, I'm not an ettiquette expert so I don't mind what order they go!

In Australia I have always seen modern correspondence address PhDs as Dr (or Professor). From a strict ettiquette perspective, if it is not appropriate to address me as Dr (given it's a PhD) then I prefer Ms over Mrs