Is our society incapable of debating real issues?

[Cerulean]

I think @OboeGal said it perfectly. And others have added color to the topic.

We don't know what to do with data and information when we have it, and since we have so much of it we don't even know how to screen for correct versus incorrect information. Social media changed the game.

Information screening should be a skill that is taught in every elementary school curriculum. Yes, kids learn how to write citations for little essays and get punished for following the wrong format...but they don't learn why it is so important. This curriculum should include learning how to read charts and other data visuals, and the devastating consequences of not knowing or caring about it.

Taking an advanced statistics class in my master's program completely changed how I look at news reports.

I think we are all susceptible to the power of anecdotes, it's only human. And they are so compelling that they overtake dry, unemotional factual information. They are vivid and relatable. Memory is extremely fallible. People are so easily convinced of false information being true that eyewitness testimony isn't even reliable, even if something actually happened to them. It's no wonder that we can't even be left to interpret information accurately!

Our inability to be objective does make me question if democracy is even suitable for humans at all, but it's the best we've got from what I've seen...

 

[Gloria27]

from the horse's mouth (pun intended):

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Since we’re posting facts:

1) The most “common” adverse effect for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is myocarditis, at a rate of approximately 0.00126% of the population. The incidents of myocarditis after vaccination reported have been for the most part, mild. Compare this to the incidence of myocarditis in patients who have contracted COVID-19. An estimated 7% of all COVID deaths are attributed to myocarditis (though this figure is an estimate and may therefore be overstated). The paper also goes to say that since most of the cases of COVID related myocarditis actually go unnoticed, I think it is plausible to conclude that the myocarditis caused by COVID-19 is more prevalent and more dangerous than the vaccine. [Sources: 1, 2]

2) The most “common” adverse effect for J&J and AstraZeneca were TTS/blood clots, at an incidence rate of approx 0.0009% for J&J and 0.0004-0.0006% for AstraZeneca. Compared to COVID-19 itself, where an estimated 30% of “critically ill” patients develop blood clots, and approximately 32% of symptomatic COVID-19 patients were admitted to the ICU in the first place, implying that the incidence rate of blood clots in COVID-19 patients is 0.096%, which is 107x higher than J&J and 192x higher than AZ. [Sources: 1, 2, 3].

3) J&J has also been associated with a slight risk of Guillain Barre Syndrome, at an incidence risk of 0.0012% at a maximum. The frequency with which this disease exists in the general population is ~0.002%. [Sources: 1, 2].

4) 0.0019% of people who received the COVID-19 vaccine died. This includes people who died of any and all reasons, including things such as old age or other illnesses. A study of medical records, clinical information and death certificates of these reports do not show any causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. In numerical terms, this means that <7000 people have died after getting vaccinated, for whatever reason, with no proof that said death was caused by vaccination. Compare to the mortality rate of COVID-19, which differs by country, but is ~1.7% in the US. That’s >630,000 people who have died of COVID-19 in the US alone, this does not include those who have died because of post COVID complications. [Sources: 1, 2].

So, fact: the vaccine is safe, significantly safer than the disease itself.

 

[missy]

from the horse's mouth (pun intended):

While spike protein is cytotoxic in SARS-Cov-2, it is NOT cytotoxic in vaccines, because it is specifically mutated to stay in a locked, pre-fused state.

Fact Check-COVID-19 vaccines are not ‘cytotoxic’

Posts are sharing the false statement that the spike protein in COVID-19 vaccines is cytotoxic, suggesting that it kills or damages cells. There is no evidence to support this.

www.reuters.com

"
So far, there is no scientific evidence available that suggests spike proteins created in our bodies from the COVID-19 vaccines are toxic or damaging our organs,” experts at the Meedan Digital Health Lab (meedan.com/digital-health-lab) said. (here)

Research shows that spike proteins (here) remain stuck to the cell surface around the injection site and do not travel to other parts of the body via the bloodstream, they added. The 1% of the vaccine that does reach the bloodstream is destroyed by liver enzymes.

Pharmacologist Sabina Vohra-Miller (www.vohramillerfoundation.ca/) produced a Twitter infographic explaining how spike proteins from the vaccine are harmless (here).


Anna Durbin, Professor of International Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, told Reuters via email that the spike itself is not cytotoxic.

“When you are vaccinated, your cells use the mRNA (or DNA from adenovirus vector) to make spike protein in your cells. Your cells “show” your immune system the spike protein and pieces of the spike protein. The spike protein does not kill those cells, it is not cytotoxic,” Durbin explained.

The T cells, which make up a part of the immune system, then see the spike protein and remember it so that if there is exposure to the virus later, they can recognize it and kill the infected cells, Durbin said.

VERDICT​

False. There is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccines are cytotoxic (toxic to cells).



"


The vaccine has been given to 5 Billion people so far and is protecting the great majority of them. Side effects that are more than minor are rare with this vaccine.

Gloria, if you are truly concerned about the MRNA vaccine why don't you get the J&J vaccine?

 

[missy]

Since we’re posting facts:

1) The most “common” adverse effect for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is myocarditis, at a rate of approximately 0.00126% of the population. The incidents of myocarditis after vaccination reported have been for the most part, mild. Compare this to the incidence of myocarditis in patients who have contracted COVID-19. An estimated 7% of all COVID deaths are attributed to myocarditis (though this figure is an estimate and may therefore be overstated). The paper also goes to say that since most of the cases of COVID related myocarditis actually go unnoticed, I think it is plausible to conclude that the myocarditis caused by COVID-19 is more prevalent and more dangerous than the vaccine. [Sources: 1, 2]

2) The most “common” adverse effect for J&J and AstraZeneca were TTS/blood clots, at an incidence rate of approx 0.0009% for J&J and 0.0004-0.0006% for AstraZeneca. Compared to COVID-19 itself, where an estimated 30% of “critically ill” patients develop blood clots, and approximately 32% of symptomatic COVID-19 patients were admitted to the ICU in the first place, implying that the incidence rate of blood clots in COVID-19 patients is 0.096%, which is 107x higher than J&J and 192x higher than AZ. [Sources: 1, 2, 3].

3) J&J has also been associated with a slight risk of Guillain Barre Syndrome, at an incidence risk of 0.0012% at a maximum. The frequency with which this disease exists in the general population is ~0.002%. [Sources: 1, 2].

4) 0.0019% of people who received the COVID-19 vaccine died. This includes people who died of any and all reasons, including things such as old age or other illnesses. A study of medical records, clinical information and death certificates of these reports do not show any causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. In numerical terms, this means that <7000 people have died after getting vaccinated, for whatever reason, with no proof that said death was caused by vaccination. Compare to the mortality rate of COVID-19, which differs by country, but is ~1.7% in the US. That’s >630,000 people who have died of COVID-19 in the US alone, this does not include those who have died because of post COVID complications. [Sources: 1, 2].

So, fact: the vaccine is safe, significantly safer than the disease itself.

Exactly. Thank you for this factual and helpful post @AllAboardTheBlingTrain.

 

[Gloria27]

Gloria, if you are truly concerned about the MRNA vaccine why don't you get the J&J vaccine?

My hopes are with Novavax.
Still think mandates are not ok.