Independents swing toward McCain

[stone_seeker]

Good news since I''m an independent.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13427.html

Link

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Well, not THIS Independent, thankyouverymuch!

 

[HollyS]

Mr. Zero had best be getting back to impressing folks with his fancy talkin'', and leave the flayling behind; I mean, at what point did he decide he was running against the other guy''s Veep?

 

[mimzy]

it really makes no sense - mccain USED to be more of a centrist/maverick/whatever, but no one would debate that he''s gone further to the right in the past year. and seeing that his vp pick is even further to the right than bush is.....it isn''t exactly intuitive that people in the center who know anything about them would get on that bandwagon.

and yeah, ditto irishgirl - not this independent!

 

[Krissie]

Date: 9/15/2008 10:03:05 AM
Author: mimzy
it really makes no sense - mccain USED to be more of a centrist/maverick/whatever, but no one would debate that he''s gone further to the right in the past year. and seeing that his vp pick is even further to the right than bush is.....it isn''t exactly intuitive that people in the center who know anything about them would get on that bandwagon.

and yeah, ditto irishgirl - not this independent!

The fact that he''s taking cues from Rove says it all, in my opinion. My mom (who is a die-hard Republican -- she''s even got a photo of herself with Bob Dole on her nightstand!) thinks he has sold out and lost his integrity -- he used to fight against the Bush influence, and now he''s using it to get elected. Mind you, she wouldn''t have supported him in 2000 because she thought he was too liberal (ha!), but now she''s completely turned off because she thinks he''s a power-hungry phony. He''s more of the same, except that he wasn''t always that way. I think some people are put off by that.

 

[mimzy]

Date: 9/15/2008 10:29:20 AM
Author: Krissie

Date: 9/15/2008 10:03:05 AM

Author: mimzy

it really makes no sense - mccain USED to be more of a centrist/maverick/whatever, but no one would debate that he''s gone further to the right in the past year. and seeing that his vp pick is even further to the right than bush is.....it isn''t exactly intuitive that people in the center who know anything about them would get on that bandwagon.


and yeah, ditto irishgirl - not this independent!

The fact that he''s taking cues from Rove says it all, in my opinion. My mom (who is a die-hard Republican -- she''s even got a photo of herself with Bob Dole on her nightstand!) thinks he has sold out and lost his integrity -- he used to fight against the Bush influence, and now he''s using it to get elected. Mind you, she wouldn''t have supported him in 2000 because she thought he was too liberal (ha!), but now she''s completely turned off because she thinks he''s a power-hungry phony. He''s more of the same, except that he wasn''t always that way. I think some people are put off by that.

that''s exactly it, he has sold out. and it''s so disappointing! initially i was really happy that it was him who got the nomination (even though i wasn''t likely going to vote for him) because i thought that if any republican was going to be in office i wanted it to be him, but now he''s no better than anyone else. and the nerve of him/the party to still parade him around as a ''maverick''! i feel bad for him now

; i don''t know if he''s just too beat down by the party or if he doesn''t care that he sold out, but i imagine that he has a tough time sleeping at night. i mean, to know that you spent your whole career trying to be different and to end up on the national stage as nothing than a republican tool isn''t the ending i''m sure he was hoping for. i still think he is well-intentioned, but he''s got to re-grow a backbone to live up to the image he''s created for himself if he does get elected.

p.s.- did you see that Rove was quoted as saying he''s "gone too far" with his (McCains) ads? yeesh!

 

[stone_seeker]

maybe he''s pandering to his base to get elected and then he can be the maverick hes always wanted to be?

both sides tend to say and do the things they need to get the support of their base. the key is to see who has shown the more centrist policies in the past and in the debates. we will learn a lot of the next several weeks about who can move more towards the middle and appeal to true independents.

 

[mimzy]

Date: 9/15/2008 10:47:24 AM
Author: stone_seeker
maybe he's pandering to his base to get elected and then he can be the maverick hes always wanted to be?


both sides tend to say and do the things they need to get the support of their base. the key is to see who has shown the more centrist policies in the past and in the debates. we will learn a lot of the next several weeks about who can move more towards the middle and appeal to true independents.

i get what you are saying, and i partially agree with it, but unless he has a history of going back on his word (which wouldn't really be a good thing to begin with, but i suppose useful in an election?) what reason do we have to believe that he is going to completely change many of his political platforms once he's elected? he's had the nomination tied up for awhile now - that should give him enough slack to be the politician he wants to be. republicans aren't going to vote for obama on the basis that mccain is too liberal. what incentive does he have for aligning himself more with bush if bush supporters are already going to vote for him, even if it's just because of the (R) after his name? (or is it before?) he was/is in the position to truly change the republican party (like he claimed he wanted to do) and now he's either choking or succumbing to peer pressure.

i'd like to be optimistic and believe that he really would do things differently in office, but the more i read the less optimistic i am

. BUT, i guess you never know. and yes, the debates will be interesting. but i generally put more stock in written official positions on the issues than in soundbytes....and it's the official positions that worry me more.

ETA: and you're right, mccain has a more centrist past. but past is the key word

. if you look at his record over the past two years or so he's gone further and further to the right, going so far as saying he'll vote against bills he's written or sponsored if they came to the floor.

 

[MoonWater]

mimzy, I feel the same way you do and his choice of Palin sealed the deal for me.

 

[mimzy]

Date: 9/15/2008 11:18:11 AM
Author: MoonWater
mimzy, I feel the same way you do and his choice of Palin sealed the deal for me.

same here. my heart went all aflutter when i heard he might pick lieberman. but the door was quickly slammed shut with palin''s name.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/15/2008 11:18:11 AM
Author: MoonWater
mimzy, I feel the same way you do and his choice of Palin sealed the deal for me.

Yeah, VP picks are important...Obama's choice of Biden sealed the deal for me.

ETA: While being more to the center wouldn't cause McCain supports to vote for Obama, it might cause them not to vote at all...in either case McCain loses. He has to do what he has to do to get elected & judging from the polls, he is.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 9/15/2008 4:09:35 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/15/2008 11:18:11 AM
Author: MoonWater
mimzy, I feel the same way you do and his choice of Palin sealed the deal for me.

Yeah, VP picks are important...Obama''s choice of Biden sealed the deal for me.

ETA: While being more to the center wouldn''t cause McCain supports to vote for Obama, it might cause them not to vote at all...in either case McCain loses. He has to do what he has to do to get elected & judging from the polls, he is.

Indy! So you''re "one of us"???

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/15/2008 4:33:13 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 9/15/2008 4:09:35 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/15/2008 11:18:11 AM
Author: MoonWater
mimzy, I feel the same way you do and his choice of Palin sealed the deal for me.

Yeah, VP picks are important...Obama''s choice of Biden sealed the deal for me.

ETA: While being more to the center wouldn''t cause McCain supports to vote for Obama, it might cause them not to vote at all...in either case McCain loses. He has to do what he has to do to get elected & judging from the polls, he is.

Indy! So you''re ''one of us''???

LOL NO! I wouldn''t call myself an "Independent" but I am also not affiliated with either party, although my conservative views skew me to the right. Biden sealed my vote for McCain...I just can''t get over his racist comments directed at Indians and Obama...

I lost all respect for him years ago. Don''t flame me!

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 9/15/2008 9:44:23 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/15/2008 4:33:13 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 9/15/2008 4:09:35 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/15/2008 11:18:11 AM
Author: MoonWater
mimzy, I feel the same way you do and his choice of Palin sealed the deal for me.

Yeah, VP picks are important...Obama''s choice of Biden sealed the deal for me.

ETA: While being more to the center wouldn''t cause McCain supports to vote for Obama, it might cause them not to vote at all...in either case McCain loses. He has to do what he has to do to get elected & judging from the polls, he is.

Indy! So you''re ''one of us''???

LOL NO! I wouldn''t call myself an ''Independent'' but I am also not affiliated with either party, although my conservative views skew me to the right. Biden sealed my vote for McCain...I just can''t get over his racist comments directed at Indians and Obama...

I lost all respect for him years ago. Don''t flame me!

LOL! No worries . . . I won''t flame ya! You''re completely entitled to vote for whomever you choose . . . I''ll just cancel out your McCain vote with my Obama vote! LOL!

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 9/14/2008 7:21:14 PM
Author: HollyS

Mr. Zero had best be getting back to impressing folks with his fancy talkin'', and leave the flayling behind; I mean, at what point did he decide he was running against the other guy''s Veep?

May I ask why you feel the need to always refer to Senator Obama as Mr. Zero? Regardless of whether or not you like the man, which we all know you don''t, do you have to resort to referring to him with such disrespect?

And to answer your question, my guess would be that Obama decided to turn his attention to the oppositions V.P. candidate because the rest of the voters decided that she was more important in winning the election than McCain. What would you expect him to do. What would you do?

 

[HollyS]

Date: 9/15/2008 11:09:33 PM
Author: miraclesrule

Date: 9/14/2008 7:21:14 PM
Author: HollyS

Mr. Zero had best be getting back to impressing folks with his fancy talkin'', and leave the flayling behind; I mean, at what point did he decide he was running against the other guy''s Veep?

May I ask why you feel the need to always refer to Senator Obama as Mr. Zero? Regardless of whether or not you like the man, which we all know you don''t, do you have to resort to referring to him with such disrespect?

And to answer your question, my guess would be that Obama decided to turn his attention to the oppositions V.P. candidate because the rest of the voters decided that she was more important in winning the election than McCain. What would you expect him to do. What would you do?

I prefer to refer to him in any manner I see fit. Thank you. And he has not earned my respect.

What should he be doing? Well, if he had anything positive to say, with adequately thought out ideas that might indeed bring ''change'' that was good for America, I would think he would be discussing that. And generally ignoring the other guy''s Veep. He''s not running as Biden''s No. 2 guy after all.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/15/2008 11:03:49 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl
LOL! No worries . . . I won't flame ya! You're completely entitled to vote for whomever you choose . . . I'll just cancel out your McCain vote with my Obama vote! LOL!

Whew! I was worried!

I live in Indiana, which is reliably red, but who really knows nowadays...I know the more urban parts of our state are blue and perhaps it has spread a bit.

ETA: As for referring to Obama has Mr. Zero, I'd imagine he'd say he's been "called worse on the basketball court."

I've read worse about other candidates & politicians on these threads...not stirring the pot, just saying...

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 9/16/2008 12:12:12 AM
Author: HollyS

Date: 9/15/2008 11:09:33 PM
Author: miraclesrule

Date: 9/14/2008 7:21:14 PM
Author: HollyS

Mr. Zero had best be getting back to impressing folks with his fancy talkin'', and leave the flayling behind; I mean, at what point did he decide he was running against the other guy''s Veep?

May I ask why you feel the need to always refer to Senator Obama as Mr. Zero? Regardless of whether or not you like the man, which we all know you don''t, do you have to resort to referring to him with such disrespect?

And to answer your question, my guess would be that Obama decided to turn his attention to the oppositions V.P. candidate because the rest of the voters decided that she was more important in winning the election than McCain. What would you expect him to do. What would you do?

I prefer to refer to him in any manner I see fit. Thank you. And he has not earned my respect.

What should he be doing? Well, if he had anything positive to say, with adequately thought out ideas that might indeed bring ''change'' that was good for America, I would think he would be discussing that. And generally ignoring the other guy''s Veep. He''s not running as Biden''s No. 2 guy after all.

McCain has lost a lot of respect from many as well, yet they don''t feel the need to start creating derogatory names for him. FWIW, I just think that it diminishes your credibility, even with those who might otherwise agree with your choice in candidates. It''s like Ann Coulter, most of her party actually think she has done more harm than good for their cause. What good does that do to the collective discussion? If you want to be heard and understand as I believe that you do, just like all of us do, such insults distract from otherwise fruitful discussions. Also, after a while, you will run the risk of sounding and behaving just like the Jack Nicholson character in "A Few Good Men".

 

[HollyS]

Date: 9/16/2008 12:30:50 AM
Author: miraclesrule

Date: 9/16/2008 12:12:12 AM
Author: HollyS

Date: 9/15/2008 11:09:33 PM
Author: miraclesrule

Date: 9/14/2008 7:21:14 PM
Author: HollyS

Mr. Zero had best be getting back to impressing folks with his fancy talkin'', and leave the flayling behind; I mean, at what point did he decide he was running against the other guy''s Veep?

May I ask why you feel the need to always refer to Senator Obama as Mr. Zero? Regardless of whether or not you like the man, which we all know you don''t, do you have to resort to referring to him with such disrespect?

And to answer your question, my guess would be that Obama decided to turn his attention to the oppositions V.P. candidate because the rest of the voters decided that she was more important in winning the election than McCain. What would you expect him to do. What would you do?

I prefer to refer to him in any manner I see fit. Thank you. And he has not earned my respect.

What should he be doing? Well, if he had anything positive to say, with adequately thought out ideas that might indeed bring ''change'' that was good for America, I would think he would be discussing that. And generally ignoring the other guy''s Veep. He''s not running as Biden''s No. 2 guy after all.

McCain has lost a lot of respect from many as well, yet they don''t feel the need to start creating derogatory names for him. FWIW, I just think that it diminishes your credibility, even with those who might otherwise agree with your choice in candidates. It''s like Ann Coulter, most of her party actually think she has done more harm than good for their cause. What good does that do to the collective discussion? If you want to be heard and understand as I believe that you do, just like all of us do, such insults distract from otherwise fruitful discussions. Also, after a while, you will run the risk of sounding and behaving just like the Jack Nicholson character in ''A Few Good Men''.

You can call McCain whatever name you would like. Meanwhile, stop telling others how to post.

 

[Linda W]

The last time you were nasty Holly, you had a whole thread deleted. Miracles was just being helpful.

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 9/16/2008 12:43:40 AM
Author: Linda W
The last time you were nasty Holly, you had a whole thread deleted. Miracles was just being helpful.

Well, I was trying to be helpful.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 9/16/2008 12:46:11 AM
Author: miraclesrule

Date: 9/16/2008 12:43:40 AM

Author: Linda W

The last time you were nasty Holly, you had a whole thread deleted. Miracles was just being helpful.

Well, I was trying to be helpful.

You were helpful sweetie, don''t worry about it. Some people just don''t get it. I am learning a lot from you and most of the other posters, who have positive information to offer.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 9/16/2008 12:43:40 AM
Author: Linda W
The last time you were nasty Holly, you had a whole thread deleted. Miracles was just being helpful.

Calling Obama Mr Zero hardly qualifies as being nasty. Unless he''s a member of PS. Then maybe.

And le''t be clear: threads have been cancelled because a lot of people could not be adults and discuss without personally attacking each other. They weren''t cancelled because of any one person; not even me.

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 9/16/2008 1:01:33 AM
Author: HollyS

Date: 9/16/2008 12:43:40 AM
Author: Linda W
The last time you were nasty Holly, you had a whole thread deleted. Miracles was just being helpful.

Calling Obama Mr Zero hardly qualifies as being nasty. Unless he's a member of PS. Then maybe.

And le't be clear: threads have been cancelled because a lot of people could not be adults and discuss without personally attacking each other. They weren't cancelled because of any one person; not even me.

I'm curious, for the sake of discussion. Do you know this, or do you think this? And let's for a moment suppose, because it doesn't matter anyway ( it really doesn't). But I am curious...if you were provided evidence to the contrary, would you have the capacity to admit it, not necessarily to anyone else, but to yourself?

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/16/2008 1:17:46 AM
Author: miraclesrule

Date: 9/16/2008 1:01:33 AM
Author: HollyS

Date: 9/16/2008 12:43:40 AM
Author: Linda W
The last time you were nasty Holly, you had a whole thread deleted. Miracles was just being helpful.

Calling Obama Mr Zero hardly qualifies as being nasty. Unless he''s a member of PS. Then maybe.

And le''t be clear: threads have been cancelled because a lot of people could not be adults and discuss without personally attacking each other. They weren''t cancelled because of any one person; not even me.

I''m curious, for the sake of discussion. Do you know this, or do you think this? And let''s for a moment suppose, because it doesn''t matter anyway ( it really doesn''t). But I am curious...if you were provided evidence to the contrary, would you have the capacity to admit it, not necessarily to anyone else, but to yourself?

I''m pretty sure the last thread was cancelled because it was 90% about the Islamic faith and Muslims...100% against PS rules.

 

[partgypsy]

Personally HollyS I think you are a great representative for McCain

.

BTW the McCain (Palin) bounce has disappeared.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/16/2008 10:10:27 AM
Author: part gypsy
Personally HollyS I think you are a great representative for McCain

.

BTW the McCain (Palin) bounce has disappeared.

The fact that''s it''s even close shows the bounce is still in effect. McCain was WAY behind Obama going into the Conventions but they are neck and neck now by most accounts. link Whether or not voters like Palin, it brought all the attention back to the GOP, which is always good for any candidate. McCain''s supporters have had to come out and defend him and Palin, bringing new life to the campaign.

 

[miraclesrule]

IndyGrl: Thanks for your opinion, but that wasn't the point of my post, but I suspect you know that. I made it very clear it didn't matter why the thread was cancelled, I was interested in hearing the answer to my hypothetical.

But since this is about the Undecideds or Independents, I can tell you that not all of those that I know, nor myself, have been swinging toward McCain, and whether you agree or not, it has a lot to do with Palin. Until we can get more information and have enough true vetting, we are not swayed by her confidence and beauty and pageantry.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/16/2008 10:45:50 AM
Author: miraclesrule
IndyGrl: Thanks for your opinion, but that wasn't the point of my post, but I suspect you know that. I made it very clear it didn't matter why the thread was cancelled, I was interested in hearing the answer to my hypothetical.

But since this is about the Undecideds or Independents, I can tell you that not all of those that I know, nor myself, have been swinging toward McCain, and whether you agree or not, it has a lot to do with Palin. Until we can get more information and have enough true vetting, we are not swayed by her confidence and beauty and pageantry.

I actually don't disagree about the preference for referring to candidates/politicians by their actual names, but I have read Bush & other candidates referred to with alternate names & no one ever says anything about it, so I was just pointing out that it was not just HollyS alone. It wasn't actually an opinion on why the other thread was deleted; it was a fact that it was against PS rules. Much more innocuous threads having to do with religion on other parts of PS have been deleted, so it's safe to say that was the reason (and a good reason, obviously, due to the tensions that arose from it).

Anyway, if you wanted an answer to your "What would you do?" hypothetical...I would "stay the course" if I were Obama and continue attacking McCain instead of getting the already fanatical Palin diehards on my case. It's just too easy for attacks on Palin to be construed in a negative manner in which they were not (or were) intended.

I actually *agree* that Palin is the reason for a lot of things, most notably McCain's evening with Obama in the polls. To say that she isn't would be naive. My post said that love her or hate her, she has had a positive impact on the McCain campaign. I am also not impressed by pageantry or pretty speeches.

I was actually undecided but leaning right when the Conventions took place. Obama's choice of Biden completely turned me off, however.

ETA: Not trying to be defensive or offensive above, but I think/hope you know that! I think I misread which hypo you were talking about, though. Kindly disregard if you were talking about the question posed specifically to HollyS!

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 9/16/2008 10:10:27 AM
Author: part gypsy
Personally HollyS I think you are a great representative for McCain

.

BTW the McCain (Palin) bounce has disappeared.

Hardly. McCain has tied Obama in Pennsylvania, further ahead in Ohio and Florida.

Also in New York, where Obama has an 18 point lead, his lead is now down to 5 points and largely due to female voters. For once my vote may count here in NY