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In-Laws (Part III)

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Harriet

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I''m very sorry, but I need to vent. Yes, again.
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Recap:
Recently, FMIL wanted her precious younger son to stay with us on and off. As some of you know, our wedding is upcoming and we need the time together. Also, we have a no-guest policy (we live in New York). We said "no," and she screamed at us, calling us "selfish" and insinuating that I was brought up that way (which I find offensive to my parents). Last weekend was FFIL''s birthday. I really didn''t want to go (I have bad GERD and was so stressed out that my doctor advised me against going). But, because FI expressed that my going would mean a lot to him, I went.

Report:
Things went more or less smoothly. Per FI''s request, FMIL didn''t bring up our no-guest policy. BUT, there was no mention whatsoever of our wedding next week. And, they kept referring to our future honeymoon as a "vacation." How would you respond?

P.S. I sent a conciliatory e-mail after the no-guest fracas and received no reply.
 
Wow, Harriet, I have to say you are one of the classiest people around for managing to keep your cool in the midst of all this. Your futureILs are obviously extremely difficult.

When they said "vacation," did you correct them and say it was actually a honeymoon? If so, what was their response to that? If not, I would suggest leaving it alone for now, but if they repeat the misnomer, just correct quickly and calmly that it''s a honeymoon; done with a smile, for good measure and all that.
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I am not sure if that is your style or if it''s a good idea, but I thought I''d throw it out there.

Good luck figuring them out.
 
WishfulThinking,

Thanks for your insight and compliment. I wish I could be classier and just let it go.

I didn''t correct them, even though they said "vacation" repeatedly. Should I have done so?

I need all the luck I can get!
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don''t bother. if they call it a vacation, let them....they''re just tryiing to get to you. you know its a honeymoon and that''s all that matters.

movie zombie
 
Hi MZ,

It''s been a while!

The use of the word "vacation" doesn''t bother me as much as the failure to acknowledge our wedding, which is exactly a week from today. You''re right, I should let things slide, but a ''blessing'' of sorts would have been greatly appreciated. FI is even more hurt than I am.
 
Date: 8/2/2008 12:31:35 AM
Author: Harriet
WishfulThinking,


Thanks for your insight and compliment. I wish I could be classier and just let it go.


I didn't correct them, even though they said 'vacation' repeatedly. Should I have done so?


I need all the luck I can get!
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You are absolutely classier than I could ever be, so kudos for that.
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I would have corrected them, nicely but consistently every time they said it. Obviously only you can be the judge of whether that approach is appropriate for your situation or effective, but with many passive aggressive people I know [and your FILs seem pretty passive aggressive from what you have described], I think that would get the message across without starting any sort of fight. Just subtle and consistently firm.

I also think although the "vacation" reference bothers you less than the lack of wedding discussion, it is really telling in this situation, and definitely related. Using that term to describe your honeymoon *is* their way of talking about the wedding without actually talking about it. It sounds like it's not that they're not acknowledging the wedding, but that they're voicing their ambivalence towards it [I don't know if that is the right word to describe it, but hopefully you know what I mean by it] by not admitting that the trip you are taking after the wedding should have the name that is usually attributed to that activity: a honeymoon. It's an indirect way of acknowledging it. That, to me, is reason enough to bring it up, but I'm not you, so it's all subjective.
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Ooh, very passive-aggressive with the ''vacation'' wording - I think you did the right thing in not responding to it - it''s bait and they are trying to needle you. With that type of personality, my feeling is you can only deal with it by not engaging. They seem to be punishing you and your FI - whether it''s for the failure to host the couch-potato FBIL or the (completely understandable esp. in NYC) no-guest policy or some other imagined slight. You''re NOT selfish, THEY are - regardless of how they feel about anything in the past, their son is getting married and to not rise to the occasion with kindness and good wishes for you both is just petulant and mean.

I''m so sorry you are having to deal with this on a repeat basis, esp. before your wedding. I have a feeling it is just the way they are
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and even if you had compromised your feelings, hosted the BIL, thrown open your doors to guests, etc. . . . they would just be mad about some other issue - some people just have a perpetual ax to grind. Seems like they have no issue with the younger brother - maybe they prefer that sort of dependence and the fact that you and your FI are independent from them and are getting ready to formalize your own relationship and future together is threatening to them, who knows?
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Anyway, hugs and best wishes for a lovely week ahead of your nuptials!
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They were trying to get a rise out of you. The best thing to do is ignore them and not feed into their psychological warfare.
 
Harriet, I''m sorry to hear that both you and your FI are being treated in such a way by family a week before your wedding. That''s so hurtful and disappointing, to try to goad you into reacting to their (as babysteps said) passive-aggressive behaviour. I know it''s hard to ignore, especially because it is coming from family, but I think if you constantly try to keep them happy, everyone will lose, because they will keep raising the bar and you and your FI will keep sacrificing your own happiness to try to appease them. I''m so sorry, honey. Hopefully one day they''ll realize the damage they are doing and will stop.
 
Wow...it''s just crazy that they didn''t acknowledge your wedding or honeymoon. Yikes. Did your fiance say anything to them? I''m assuming not. Because he is upset and hurt, I think he should definitely call them out on their behavior.

It doesn''t seem like it will change anything because they are clearly insensitive and passive aggressive, but getting it out the open is always better than keeping it to yourself, in my opinion.

I think he should just calmly say "I was very hurt that you didn''t acknowledge our wedding which is a week away. I also noticed that you kept calling our honeymoon a vacation. I don''t understand why you would act this way, but it''s very upsetting." I''m sure they''ll react badly, but he can just leave it at that and let them know he''s not interested in fighting, but he wanted to let them know their behavior upset him.

I''m sorry you''re dealing with this yet again!
 
I can understand why you are upset, especially as this really hurt your FI. However, this is nothing new for them, and I''m sure this kind of behavior won''t stop regardless of what you say. They already know their behavior is upsetting and don''t care. I think you are going to have to play this out day to day, at least till the wedding is over. I think you did the right thing by letting the vacation comments pass. Best not to potentially escalate things this week unless absolutely necessary. If their behavior worsens, I would just look them in the eye and calmly say something like "I expect you to be KIND on our wedding day." Period. Walk away. They can''t play the game with you if you refuse to engage. I think you are doing a great job dealing with this situation.
 
If you and your FI feel the need to address this it should come from him. A simple "It hurts me when you don't acknowledge that Harriet and I are to be married. We are commiting to spend our lives together [legally and/or spiritually] and celebrating our commitment by going on a honeymoon, it's not simply 'a vacation.'" should suffice. But his and your expectations should also be that nothing will change, this is who they are.
 
Date: 8/2/2008 7:14:27 AM
Author: Madam Bijoux
They were trying to get a rise out of you. The best thing to do is ignore them and not feed into their psychological warfare.
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Yet again, I must defer to Madam who hit the nail right on the head!

[Sorry for a short threadjack here, but I have to know how Madam acquired such a fund of marital knowledge; I believe she''s a single lady
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]
 
I think I''ll just second Kimberly. It''s quite disappointing that they''re trying to engage you in this manner. However, I will say that I am glad that they do not live in NY near you
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UPDATE

FI just spoke with his parents and is now worn out, poor dear.

Summary
1. They feel like they don't know me well enough (even though they've been living overseas for 6 of the 7 years I've been with FI; I've been in constant contact with them via phone and e-mail).
2. They feel like our no-guest policy is tantamount to keeping them out of our lives.
3. They feel like I'm always angry with them (by saying "no" to FBIL).
4. As a result, they feel like they're perpetually walking on eggshells when they're with us.
5. Thus, they didn't ask about the wedding because they're afraid of saying the wrong thing!
6. Also, we've been downplaying it (fair dinkum).
7. They are angry that they weren't invited to the civil ceremony (we didn't see the point of dragging them out here for 15 minutes; in addition, my parents would have felt bad that they couldn't come).
8. FMIL is angry that I only called FFIL once when he was in hospital. I called him several times, just not when she was around.

Conclusion
1. They offered their 'blessings' to their son (but not to me) precisely because he's their son and they say they respect his decision.
2. They offered to come next Friday.

Solution?
1. I will try to get closer to them, but there's a limit to how much I can do. I've gone to FFIL for advice in the past, and was extremely affectionate with him last weekend.
2. I do not want them here next Friday because: (i) both parties need to cool off; and (ii) I don't want them to sully our wedding.

Thank you all for chiming in. What do you all think about the latest development?
 
Harriet... it sounds to me like you''ll never be able to make these people happy (because no one can- except precious?). I think you''ve gone above and beyond! And they are being ridiculous. I wouldn''t have them at the wedding either, especially since your parents cannot be there and now after the not-so-nice things they''ve said. Again, I''m just glad that you do not live near them. Who needs this kind of stress from FAMILY?!
 
Harriet, I would have said, Oh, you mean our HONEYMOON? I would have done this every time they called it a vacation. They are being ultra passive aggressive AND trying to bait you. I would, knowing that, STILL correct them, but not let it bother you. You know it is your honeymoon, so that is what counts. You could say, Oh, it is called a honeymoon when two people go on a trip to celebrate their marriage. If they will not acknowledge it, too darn bad. It IS your wedding, and if they just refuse to be part of things, too bad.

I have said this before. This is going to be your life with them. Period, over and out. THEY WILL NOT EVER CHANGE. For your sanity you must find a way to cope, or you will spend your entire marriage stressing about them and fighting about them with your husband. This is going to rear its head over and over and over as long as they are alive. It is their nature to be like this, and nothing is going to change that. Of course there are extreme measures one can take, but I do not think your husband would feel good about those options, and might come to resent you if pushed into it. He must also come to terms with them and how they affect you and the both of you. I spent the first years of marriage in this dance, so I know what I am talking about.

You are in for a bad time in the future with them. I am not trying to scare you but I am being brutally realistic. I would hazard a guess that they do not like you and do not support this marriage, for whatever reason. I heard it all too. I was a spoiled Beverly Hills Princess who only spent their son's money. And they said that stuff only knowing a fraction of our business...I can only imagine what they would say if they really knew what we did. My mother in law currently is obnoxious about my jewelry and such, and she has no idea what I pay for a pair of shoes or a purse. I have heard it all, over and over again.

Once I accepted they were not ever going to change or be the type of in laws I had hoped for, I realized I had to stop having expectations of their behavior. Now, I call my mother in law out when she is obnoxious, and I pretty much ignore her the rest of the time. My husband sees a lot of what I say, and I have gotten farther by letting him see it and come to his own conclusions, most of the time. When she is really out of line, I make sure to bring it up to hubby, but I do NOT belabor it. He then can let things filter in on his own and he is not being hammered by me repeatedly.

Harriet, I know I have said this before but I hate to see you beating your head against the wall. You can post a vent thread once a week if you want, we can be supportive, but YOU have to live with them. Yes, they are not in NYC which is great, but that does NOT remove the issues. Phone calls, visits, etc, they WILL find a way to get under your skin. You need to be Teflon coated so it rolls right off of you. You can try to do things to reach out, which MIGHT make them happy, but I doubt it. People like that always find fault or find a way to be slighted and mistreated.
 
Isaku, Madam B is just wise.
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Unfortunately, they are looking to move to within an hour or two of us.
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I must learn the trick of selective deafness.
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I do not expect them to change, but for FI's sake and to be the bigger person, I'll make reasonable attempts to be nice.
 
Date: 8/2/2008 1:17:13 PM
Author: Harriet

Unfortunately, they are looking to move to within an hour or two of us.
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I must learn the trick of selective deafness.
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I do not expect them to change, but for FI''s sake and to be the bigger person, I''ll make reasonable attempts to be nice.
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bah... why would they want to move closer to the people whose marriage they will not give their "blessing" to?!

You are such a sweet lady, and far more tolerant than I would have been, I think. Just make sure to take care of yourself too in this situation. It''s obvious this creates a lot of stress for you, since they are family and they should treat you as such (as you treat them)... I wish they could see it!
 
i don''t buy it. its an age old ploy: ah, my son, our feelings are so hurt, we try so hard, we just don''t know how to please that woman of yours, we love you so much, we can only hope she loves you as much as we do, etc etc etc. me thinks they''re one way with him and another with you. there is a book re toxic inlaws that i read a few years back and found it very informative. it is important that you continue to set limits with these people. i think you saw the real them when they had a fit re his brother staying with you.....

movie zombie
 
Date: 8/2/2008 1:03:04 PM
Author: Harriet
UPDATE

FI just spoke with his parents and is now worn out, poor dear.

Summary
1. They feel like they don''t know me well enough (even though they''ve been living overseas for 6 of the 7 years I''ve been with FI; I''ve been in constant contact with them via phone and e-mail).
Silliness. They don''t have to know you. FI needs to know you and made his decision after 7 years.
2. They feel like our no-guest policy is tantamount to keeping them out of our lives.
They can afford a hotel. ''Nuff said.
3. They feel like I''m always angry with them (by saying ''no'' to FBIL).
Just tell them they are mistaken. You like them (small white lie) and you''re not angry.
4. As a result, they feel like they''re perpetually walking on eggshells when they''re with us.
Tell them that is not what you want and you hope everyone can have a fresh start.
5. Thus, they didn''t ask about the wedding because they''re afraid of saying the wrong thing!
6. Also, we''ve been downplaying it (fair dinkum).
7. They are angry that they weren''t invited to the civil ceremony (we didn''t see the point of dragging them out here for 15 minutes; in addition, my parents would have felt bad that they couldn''t come).
I think they should have been invited. You don''t NOT invite one set of parents just because the other set can''t attend.
8. FMIL is angry that I only called FFIL once when he was in hospital. I called him several times, just not when she was around.
Does FFIL confirm you called? That should put it to rest.

Conclusion
1. They offered their ''blessings'' to their son (but not to me) precisely because he''s their son and they say they respect his decision.
2. They offered to come next Friday.

Solution?
1. I will try to get closer to them, but there''s a limit to how much I can do. I''ve gone to FFIL for advice in the past, and was extremely affectionate with him last weekend.
2. I do not want them here next Friday because: (i) both parties need to cool off; and (ii) I don''t want them to sully our wedding.

Thank you all for chiming in. What do you all think about the latest development?

How would their attending a 15 minute ceremony sully your wedding? At this point it''s starting to sound like you are letting your disappointment color your judgement. If FI would like his parents to be there, I would encourage it. It would go a long way towards improving the future relationship. I disagree that they will always be a PITA. I think the best course is to treat them as you would any in-laws. Hope for the best, ignore the rest. Maybe I just have thicker skin, but I wouldn''t let any of this get to me. I''ve had in-laws from hell and I still acted the dutiful daughter-in-law. When they got crazy I just ignored them for a couple of weeks then went on as though they were normal. In-laws are only a PITA when YOU let it bother you. I don''t analyze people who are nuts. I just pretend they''re OK and avoid them when they aren''t.
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Ignore them! They are just trying to get your goat... Don''t let them!!! Just vent to your future hubby and us! Enjoy your wedding and HONEYMOON!!!
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i am sorry you are going through this. i just posted on another thread. i am much older than you(though not wiser
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) but spent many many years trying to please both my mother and my MIL. my MIL and i no longer speak-dh barely speaks to her(big, long story involving our brothers, a married woman, a gun, prison) and dh has finally seen my MIL for who she is, a heartless, passive aggressive beast. my fil is deceased and although he wouldn''t hurt a flea and was a great, amicable guy, he protected his dorothy from any hurts that could come her way(ie nobody''s going to hurt my dorothy, he would say) ugh.
so please please don''t let people like this guilt you or play you. i know it''s hard, it''s not just about maturity, my temperament is NOT one of a fighter, or confrontational but i am slowly and gingerly learning to stand up for ME, and guess what? the sky hasn''t fallen.
i hope the next few days preceding your wedding are exciting and happy. you certainly deserve it!
ps my aforementionied BIL lived with me for two months-dh and i almost divorced over that one-i was nursing an infant, had 3 other kids, dh was always away traveling, dh''s dad was dying, and BIL was on the cell phone with his married lover instead of doing the house projects which we paid him handsomely for...a mega-stressful time in my life. when my son had his graduation end of this may, i paid for two nights for my mom(and my good friend who accompanied her) at a hotel. just didn''t want my mom here stirring the pot withthe busy-ness of his graduation, the party, the other children etc.
do what is best for you. happy wedding and honeymoon
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Purr,
I like your straight-talking (truthfully), but disagree with a number of your points.


Date: 8/2/2008 1:57:27 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 8/2/2008 1:03:04 PM
Author: Harriet
UPDATE

FI just spoke with his parents and is now worn out, poor dear.

Summary
1. They feel like they don''t know me well enough (even though they''ve been living overseas for 6 of the 7 years I''ve been with FI; I''ve been in constant contact with them via phone and e-mail).
Silliness. They don''t have to know you. FI needs to know you and made his decision after 7 years.
Good point!
2. They feel like our no-guest policy is tantamount to keeping them out of our lives.
They can afford a hotel. ''Nuff said.
3. They feel like I''m always angry with them (by saying ''no'' to FBIL).
Just tell them they are mistaken. You like them (small white lie) and you''re not angry.
I''ve told them many a time.
4. As a result, they feel like they''re perpetually walking on eggshells when they''re with us.
Tell them that is not what you want and you hope everyone can have a fresh start.
5. Thus, they didn''t ask about the wedding because they''re afraid of saying the wrong thing!
6. Also, we''ve been downplaying it (fair dinkum).
7. They are angry that they weren''t invited to the civil ceremony (we didn''t see the point of dragging them out here for 15 minutes; in addition, my parents would have felt bad that they couldn''t come).
I think they should have been invited. You don''t NOT invite one set of parents just because the other set can''t attend.
My parents would have been greatly saddened. Plus, FI has an elderly grandmother and we didn''t want to drag her out east twice. Also, since there wasn''t going to be a reception, we wanted to keep the ceremony intimate.
8. FMIL is angry that I only called FFIL once when he was in hospital. I called him several times, just not when she was around.
Does FFIL confirm you called? That should put it to rest.
Guess what? No.
Conclusion
1. They offered their ''blessings'' to their son (but not to me) precisely because he''s their son and they say they respect his decision.
2. They offered to come next Friday.

Solution?
1. I will try to get closer to them, but there''s a limit to how much I can do. I''ve gone to FFIL for advice in the past, and was extremely affectionate with him last weekend.
2. I do not want them here next Friday because: (i) both parties need to cool off; and (ii) I don''t want them to sully our wedding.

Thank you all for chiming in. What do you all think about the latest development?

How would their attending a 15 minute ceremony sully your wedding? Because they have not given me their ''blessings.'' In the long run, I don''t care. But, I want my special day, albeit a short one, to be a happy one. FI doesn''t want them to be there either because he himself is hurt. At this point it''s starting to sound like you are letting your disappointment color your judgement. If FI would like his parents to be there, I would encourage it. It would go a long way towards improving the future relationship. I disagree that they will always be a PITA. I think the best course is to treat them as you would any in-laws. Hope for the best, ignore the rest. Maybe I just have thicker skin, but I wouldn''t let any of this get to me. I''ve had in-laws from hell and I still acted the dutiful daughter-in-law. When they got crazy I just ignored them for a couple of weeks then went on as though they were normal. In-laws are only a PITA when YOU let it bother you. I don''t analyze people who are nuts. I just pretend they''re OK and avoid them when they aren''t.
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All,
Thanks for listening. I'm afraid FI refuses to entertain the possibility that his parents won't change.
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MZ,
Thanks for reminding me about that book.

Snowflakeluvr,
I'm sorry about all you went through.
 
My husband''s parents couldn''t bear me in the beginning. I want to hear your story, which I have never heard. Please point me to the appropriate threads before you go off on your vacation...I mean honeymoon. (That was a joke. I want to remind you about my dry sense of humor before there are any misunderstandings, Harriet. Remember, always, how much I love you!) Truly, please let me know where I can read more about your history with your in-laws.

In the meantime, take heart. You and your husband love each other. The course of true love never runs completely smooth. You have handled yourself with your characteristic elegance and grace. I hope your wedding is a wonderfully happy day.

Hugs, your friend
Deb
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Date: 8/2/2008 1:46:04 PM
Author: movie zombie
i don''t buy it. its an age old ploy: ah, my son, our feelings are so hurt, we try so hard, we just don''t know how to please that woman of yours, we love you so much, we can only hope she loves you as much as we do, etc etc etc.
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I agree with this 100%. There is honestly not much you can do about it except see it as what it is; their shifting the blame away from them and their behavior and on to you and your "deficiencies" [in their eyes.] How unfortunate. I feel for you, Harriet.
 
Harriet, I totally agree that it is your and FI''s day. As long as you''re both on the same page (and I love that you are, he''s a keeper) then it should be a momentous day
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Now woman, have you ordered flowers yet? Photog? Get it done
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WishfulThinking,
Thanks again for you empathy. I do not expect them to change one whit. If only I could get FI to acknowledge the possibility that that may not happen, however hard I try. Heck, I've given up on my parents changing their ways!

Purr,
I haven't ordered the flowers yet, but I know exactly where to go: www.alaricflowers.com (there isn't much on their site, but we've had good luck with them). The photog's lined up.
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