Imposter gemstones

[T L]

Question to the colored stoners. The orange spess vs sapphire thread made me want to discuss this. How many of you rather have a stone that looks like another gem, but is less expensive? For example, I have orange spessartites because I can''t find a comparable orange sapphire. I have a very vivid rubellite tourmaline that was a dead ringer for several Mahenges I saw at a gem show recently. Those were 2K/ct (even for small stones), and my stone was $59 for 1.1 carats. I know many of you like spinels because they''re often a less expensive alternative to sapphires. I was wondering what your take was on this, and if it was even ridiculous for me to compare look-alikes to their more expensive counterparts. Just something fun and interesting to discuss.

 

[chrono]

I initially started collecting the lookalikes for the sake of less $$$ but over time, I’ve come to appreciate each stone for what they are. As an example, spessarites have a different look which I prefer over orange sapphires. While a vivid rubellite might be able to hold its own versus a Mahenge, spinels have higher RI and clean vivid rubellites are very rare in large sizes. I’ve also come to appreciate the orange in red spinels, hence the popularity of flame spinels.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I can't say I've ever bought something to take the place of something else that I couldn't afford. I would just buy it in a size small enough that I could afford, haha. And buy the "imposter" stone for its own sake.

I think for me, even if the color is roughly the same, the RI and other optical properties are usually different enough that I can tell it's not the "nicer stone". For example, when looking for a pad sapphire, I saw malaya garnets and tourmalines that had a similar color, but in other respects were too different and so I ended up buying a small pad anyways.

 

[ma re]

Well, there are look alikes, but that's all they really are. You can get a similar color for less, but you can't really copy the entire look of a certain variety. For instance, I've seen some citrines that look very similar to precious topaz in terms of color (and such citrines aren't exactly easy to find), but since color is just one component of a gem's appearance they can only be similar. Topaz has a distinctive brilliance and transparency that is almost impossible for any citrine to copy, so I say if you're only after getting the same color, that's fine, but stones are still different to a degree.

 

[T L]

Emeralds and tsavorites are a good example. Emeralds in the quality of a comparable tsavorite with that clarity and with a deep chrome green with bue undertone are exhorbitantly expensive. I often hear of many people that buy tsavorites because they love green, while the clarity and durability issues, and the treatments, affect their going the route of getting an emerald.

 

[artemiss]

I typically buy sapphires for their durability, especially in rings. I''ve had a couple of amethysts just break in two when hit wrong, and that is just heart-breaking, especially in a favourite ring with an unusual cut.
Since they come in every colour of the rainbow, aside from certain pricepoints and refractive qualities, I try to find the colour I like in corundum first.
In fact I''m waiting on a colour change sapphire that''s rather remniscent of an alexandrite as we speak

 

[ma re]

TL, I hear you on the tsavorite vs. emerald, but I can honestly say that no tsavorite can mimic the best of emeralds. They just can''t have the same silky quality, gentle shine and depth of color. Some fine ones can come close, but that''s about it. Of course, each of them will pretty much cost you a kidney or two, but hey, they''re among the nicest gems out there.

P. S. I don''t think clarity is exclusively a disadvantage of emeralds, cause often I find inclusions in them helping the color seem more saturated and giving that glowy appearance (of course, poor clarity can be a serious issue, I''m not questioning that).

 

[Gailey]

Well, I''d like a pad like T''Gal''s. Preferably bigger, same colour. What''s the chances of me finding one at a price I can afford? Probably very slim. If I did spend Baby Gailey''s inheritence on it, would I forever be worried it was worth what I paid for it? No sh**t Sherlock! Would I therefore take a sim or BE treated pad for a much lower price? You betcha cotton socks I would.

This statement is somewhat at odds with the statement I made yesterday about preferring to have 1 higher priced item at the expense of several lower priced items. I still feel that way, but recognise that I am never going to be able to afford the kings ransom for the pad of my dreams, so the sooner I come down to earth and accept that, the sooner I can start looking for realistic alternatives.

If I hadn''t gone through the whole "Aqua from the Isle of Capri" saga, then I might not feel this way. Anyone that''s interested in what I mean can find the story here

 

[chrono]

Date: 10/14/2009 1:10:51 PM
Author: artemiss
I typically buy sapphires for their durability, especially in rings. I''ve had a couple of amethysts just break in two when hit wrong, and that is just heart-breaking, especially in a favourite ring with an unusual cut.
Since they come in every colour of the rainbow, aside from certain pricepoints and refractive qualities, I try to find the colour I like in corundum first.
In fact I''m waiting on a colour change sapphire that''s rather remniscent of an alexandrite as we speak

Artemiss,
I am unaware of any colour change sapphire that changes from blue/green to purplish red, but perhaps I am interpreting your post incorrectly. I have seen almost all cc sapphires change from blue to purple.

 

[LD]

How about Apatite and Paraiba Tourmaline?

Look at this photo - which is which?

 

[Harriet]

Emeralds and tsavorites are simply incommensurable. If anyone thinks that a gemmy tsavorite is inexpensive, try pricing one.

 

[Stone Hunter]

That''s a good question. I own a Spess. because Garnet is my birthstone and I don''t like all the dark red garnets I see at B&M stores. So the Spess is my Garnet substitute! LOL

Once many many many years ago I bought a light blue topaz thinking it was a good substitute for Aqua. I still like it and think it suits me. I haven''t really seen any Aquas in person that I love.

 

[LD]

Date: 10/14/2009 1:26:34 PM
Author: Chrono

Date: 10/14/2009 1:10:51 PM
Author: artemiss
I typically buy sapphires for their durability, especially in rings. I''ve had a couple of amethysts just break in two when hit wrong, and that is just heart-breaking, especially in a favourite ring with an unusual cut.
Since they come in every colour of the rainbow, aside from certain pricepoints and refractive qualities, I try to find the colour I like in corundum first.
In fact I''m waiting on a colour change sapphire that''s rather remniscent of an alexandrite as we speak

Artemiss,
I am unaware of any colour change sapphire that changes from blue/green to purplish red, but perhaps I am interpreting your post incorrectly. I have seen almost all cc sapphires change from blue to purple.

Chrono they are the most sought after of CC Sapphires. I have a couple.

I''ve got two bracelets full of CC Sapphires and they range in colours that you wouldn''t believe. Although blue/purple, purple/pink and green/purple-pink are the most common there are tons of other colourways.

 

[LD]

Rather than Tsav to Emerald I would compare Russian Diopside to Tsavorite.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 10/14/2009 1:27:32 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
How about Apatite and Paraiba Tourmaline?

Look at this photo - which is which?

May I do a scratch test?

 

[beaujolais]

The Paraiba is on the right (as we look at the screen)?

 

[LD]

Here''s another to consider:

Red Andesine -v- Ruby

Not quite the same but it would definitely fool a lay person.

 

[LD]

Date: 10/14/2009 1:32:30 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 10/14/2009 1:27:32 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
How about Apatite and Paraiba Tourmaline?

Look at this photo - which is which?

May I do a scratch test?

*Sharp intake of breath*

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[Harriet]

 

[ma re]

LD, I''m pretty sure you''ll make an idiot out of me at some point, but I''ll bite the bait; paraiba on the right, ruby on the bottom.

P. S. I think chrome diopsides are usually not scintillating enough to mimic tsavorites (assuming we''re comparing similar standards of cutting precision). And they tend to be very dark, which could give away larger stones.

 

[Harriet]

Ma re, you're funny. No sarcasm intended.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/14/2009 1:19:32 PM
Author: ma re
TL, I hear you on the tsavorite vs. emerald, but I can honestly say that no tsavorite can mimic the best of emeralds. They just can't have the same silky quality, gentle shine and depth of color. Some fine ones can come close, but that's about it. Of course, each of them will pretty much cost you a kidney or two, but hey, they're among the nicest gems out there.

P. S. I don't think clarity is exclusively a disadvantage of emeralds, cause often I find inclusions in them helping the color seem more saturated and giving that glowy appearance (of course, poor clarity can be a serious issue, I'm not questioning that).

Richard Hughes said the same thing, and I agree, but they would fool most people (just not you

). I'm not talking about trying to get a gem that looks identical to another, but looks close in color and perhaps some other attributes. For most laypeople, it would be a challenge to figure out what it was. I think 99% of regular people would think a fine quality tsavorite was a nice emerald. Heck, most people don't even know what a tsavorite is, but most people know what an emerald is.

 

[LD]

Mr Ma Re just scanning my photos to show you a chrome diopside -v- Tsav.

In all honesty, I think if you have two gems that are similar in appearance, the "cheaper" imposter will need to be of a very good quality to rival it''s more expensive look-a-like. I''m not sure that imposters would ever fool a coloured blingster but will certainly fool the average person on the street.

In the meantime, how about Iolite -v- Tanzanite? This is an Iolite and when I put it next to my Tanzanites it''s very difficult to tell the different. Mind you, these are very nice Iolites!

 

[Harriet]

Those are very nice iolites, LD.

I''m surprised no one has attempted to compare red spinel to ruby yet. The former ain''t no bargain either.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/14/2009 1:28:50 PM
Author: Harriet
Emeralds and tsavorites are simply incommensurable. If anyone thinks that a gemmy tsavorite is inexpensive, try pricing one.

Per carat weight, with all things being equal, size, clarity, color, no treatment, a fine emerald is probably much more. While I do realize that price goes up exponentially for tsavorites above a certain carat weight, I would think that a five carat untreated emerald with the same color and clarity as a comparable tsavorite would be at least 5 times more expensive, from what I''ve seen. Museum quality like that in an emerald is extremely rare, if you can find one that hasn''t sunk with some Spanish ship from the 16th century. However, fine tsavorites are not inexpensive, especially in large sizes, that''s for sure.

 

[risingsun]

I bought a tsavorite to avoid the cost of another emerald. Now I'm hooked on tsavorites and they are quite pricey

This photo does not do justice to either gem.

 

[mastercutgems]

Well I can see both sides of the fence on this one.

My only suggestion is buy natural; and buy the best you can afford in the mineral you like; whether it is a mineral you are trying to replicate or the original gem.
I see no problems or issues buying something that looks like something else as long as it is natural. Look at Burma red spinels; forever they thought they were rubies??? Does it make them worth less; yes. Does it make them less beautiful; no...

So you must determine what are you buying it for; investment or personal enjoyment??? And to the less discerning eye many people do not know the difference between a fine green tourmaline and a emerald; or a orange sapphire and a orange spessartite garnet... Many just want the look and not the cost associated with the look. I guess that is why there are synthetics...

Now many if not most of us know the difference as we have eat, slept, and ??? this stuff for many years; but we love the field and the minerals; yes we should know the difference just by looking. But I will never rob a person of their joy in their look-a-like mineral as it might be all they can afford and who am I to say it is right or wrong??? I just know I have to divulge everything I know about a gem; they can say whatever they want to their friends

So just buy natural and what you like and one may never know it could start a trend and the substitute gem may one day out cost the original??? Yes I know; wishful thinking

LOL

 

[chrono]

Date: 10/14/2009 1:29:25 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Chrono they are the most sought after of CC Sapphires. I have a couple.

I''ve got two bracelets full of CC Sapphires and they range in colours that you wouldn''t believe. Although blue/purple, purple/pink and green/purple-pink are the most common there are tons of other colourways.

I expect they would be. I haven’t seen any though so if you have pictures or links to any, I’d appreciate it. I’ve seen purple/blue and purple/pink but not green/purple pink.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 10/14/2009 1:49:41 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 10/14/2009 1:28:50 PM
Author: Harriet
Emeralds and tsavorites are simply incommensurable. If anyone thinks that a gemmy tsavorite is inexpensive, try pricing one.

Per carat weight, with all things being equal, size, clarity, color, no treatment, a fine emerald is probably much more. While I do realize that price goes up exponentially for tsavorites above a certain carat weight, I would think that a five carat untreated emerald with the same color and clarity as a comparable tsavorite would be at least 5 times more expensive, from what I''ve seen. Museum quality like that in an emerald is extremely rare, if you can find one that hasn''t sunk with some Spanish ship from the 16th century. However, fine tsavorites are not inexpensive, especially in large sizes, that''s for sure.

You''re correct about their relative cost. That said, why ask for tsavorite-type clarity in an emerald? The jardins are fascinating. Also, if anyone can help me locate a mere 2ct round gem tsavorite, I''d be much obliged.

 

[mastercutgems]

Chrono;

I have cut the purple to teal color change; they came from Tunduru Africa. As soon as it stops raining here if you would like some photos I can take some. Also the material also lends some peach to green in smaller gems.