Imposter gemstones

[LD]

This is not a great example but I just had a quick look:

http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/single/color_change_sapphire/ycs100ag/&1244716636

I have a nightmare photographing colour change gemstones and can''t capture the daylight green of my cc sapphires so I''m afraid I''ll just have to find you some links.

 

[chrono]

LD,
Your ruby is very distinctive; it has to be the lower stone round/oval-ish stone. I expect the Paraiba to the on the right and the apatite the blue stone to the left (as seen from my perspective). Now those are Iolites, not the typical inky gray ones that are commonly seen.

Chrome diopside vs tsavorite vs emerald:
Chrome diopside tends to get very dark as they get larger and tsavorite does not have that satiny silk look which emeralds are famed for. While the colour might be similar, each have a distinctive appearance.

I do agree with TL that it won’t fool the experts or those with good gemstone knowledge but it will probably get by most laypeople. And of course, only the very fine imposter will be up to the task.

ETA
Thank you, LD, for the link. Definitely Alexandrite-like. Thanks to Dana for the offer too.

 

[LD]

You''re more than welcome Chrono.

I have to say that, for me, there''s absolutely no contest between Diopside, Tsav and Emerald! They DO look very different - but I think that''s to us - the gemstone possessed!

I was wearing my 3ct Alex (pear cut) the other day and was asked if it was an Emerald! (By somebody working in a jewellery store)!!!!!!

Dana - I have a few of the peach/green cc sapphires and they''re very interesting. I have a half yellow/half peach one that also changes to half leaf green/half deep green!

 

[mastercutgems]

LD;

Don''t you just love those weird little stones; I know when I bought a large parcel from a buying group over there some 15 years ago I thought this was the trick.

When they came in I was expecting blue sapphires

and there were all these crazy colors. I was really disappointed; then I cut one; it looked OK ; kind of a mauve/purple color. Not a happy camper by any means; then I took it outside and it was a vivid neon green. I was happy again...

 

[LD]

Date: 10/14/2009 2:25:59 PM
Author: mastercutgems
LD;

Don''t you just love those weird little stones; I know when I bought a large parcel from a buying group over there some 15 years ago I thought this was the trick.

When they came in I was expecting blue sapphires

and there were all these crazy colors. I was really disappointed; then I cut one; it looked OK ; kind of a mauve/purple color. Not a happy camper by any means; then I took it outside and it was a vivid neon green. I was happy again...

How fantastic! I reckon you got the better of the deal! I''m a real lover of colour change anything. They''re just so fascinating aren''t they? I never get tired of their different personalities.

 

[colormyworld]

Date: 10/14/2009 12:03:07 PM
Author:tourmaline_lover
Question to the colored stoners. The orange spess vs sapphire thread made me want to discuss this. How many of you rather have a stone that looks like another gem, but is less expensive? For example, I have orange spessartites because I can''t find a comparable orange sapphire. I have a very vivid rubellite tourmaline that was a dead ringer for several Mahenges I saw at a gem show recently. Those were 2K/ct (even for small stones), and my stone was $59 for 1.1 carats. I know many of you like spinels because they''re often a less expensive alternative to sapphires. I was wondering what your take was on this, and if it was even ridiculous for me to compare look-alikes to their more expensive counterparts. Just something fun and interesting to discuss.

While at first glance your rubelite may resemble a spinel. I wonder how long it would take you to see differnces if you were to own both. Tourmalines and spinel are two completely differnt animals once you really get to know them. They handle lighting differnt. One is SR and one is DR. And don''t even think about comparing them together under a "black light". If you are trying to fool others why not just buy synthetics? They are very inexpensive.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/14/2009 2:38:25 PM
Author: colormyworld

Date: 10/14/2009 12:03:07 PM
Author:tourmaline_lover
Question to the colored stoners. The orange spess vs sapphire thread made me want to discuss this. How many of you rather have a stone that looks like another gem, but is less expensive? For example, I have orange spessartites because I can''t find a comparable orange sapphire. I have a very vivid rubellite tourmaline that was a dead ringer for several Mahenges I saw at a gem show recently. Those were 2K/ct (even for small stones), and my stone was $59 for 1.1 carats. I know many of you like spinels because they''re often a less expensive alternative to sapphires. I was wondering what your take was on this, and if it was even ridiculous for me to compare look-alikes to their more expensive counterparts. Just something fun and interesting to discuss.

While at first glance your rubelite may resemble a spinel. I wonder how long it would take you to see differnces if you were to own both. Tourmalines and spinel are two completely differnt animals once you really get to know them. They handle lighting differnt. One is SR and one is DR. And don''t even think about comparing them together under a ''black light''. If you are trying to fool others why not just buy synthetics? They are very inexpensive.

I''m not saying they''re identical, but even the guy at the gem show I was at had a difficult time trying to telll them apart. Maybe I just wasn''t looking at high quality spinels or something????? They were 2K/ct though.

However, as far as the synthetic argument, it would bug me having a synthetic. As Dana said, get the best quality you can, in a natural stone.

 

[colormyworld]

I am saying that once you compare the stones side by side over time you will learn thier deffernt quirks.

Like I said, at first glance they may look similar but I guess it comes down to who you are trying to fool.
.

 

[LD]

Date: 10/14/2009 3:01:06 PM
Author: colormyworld
I am saying that once you compare the stones side by side over time you will learn thier deffernt quirks.

Like I said, at first glance they may look similar but I guess it comes down to who you are trying to fool.
.

I don''t think anybody is trying to fool anybody. As has been said, some gemstones are "similar" and a cheaper alternative. It may be that somebody might prefer to keep money in their pocket and wear a cheaper gemstone but have the general look of another gemstone. There''s absolutely nothing wrong in that.

For most people on this forum it''s difficult to fool anybody else and I don''t think that''s the point of this thread.

 

[T L]

Not really trying to fool anyone. I just couldn''t bring myself to spend 2K/ct on something that looked so similar to my inexpensive (lucky buy) rubellite. If I didn''t have that rubellite, perhaps I would have paid the price knowing that I couldn''t get that color elsewhere (ignoring all other attributes). While I do realize that Mahenge spinels are absolutely beautiful glowy stones and have great durability and sparkle factor over tourmaline, I just wasn''t moved by the ones I saw for the price.

I did buy a bubblegum pink tourmaline from him though that looked similar to a spinel of mine that flips color from pink to lavender.

Tee hee hee. CMW, I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

[colormyworld]

Thank you LD for once again "jumping in". I guess the term "imposter" in the title of this thread implied to me either fooling ones self or fooling others. I see now where I have gone astray.

 

[LD]

Date: 10/14/2009 3:27:29 PM
Author: colormyworld
Thank you LD for once again 'jumping in'. I guess the term 'imposter' in the title of this thread implied to me either fooling ones self or fooling others. I see now where I have gone astray.

Oh I didn't realise that you were moderating and deciding where and when I should post! I will of course ask you before I post next time and make sure you approve of the content shall I?

 

[Harriet]

Date: 10/14/2009 3:15:40 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Not really trying to fool anyone. I just couldn''t bring myself to spend 2K/ct on something that looked so similar to my inexpensive (lucky buy) rubellite. If I didn''t have that rubellite, perhaps I would have paid the price knowing that I couldn''t get that color elsewhere (ignoring all other attributes). While I do realize that Mahenge spinels are absolutely beautiful glowy stones and have great durability and sparkle factor over tourmaline, I just wasn''t moved by the ones I saw for the price.



I did buy a bubblegum pink tourmaline from him though that looked similar to a spinel of mine that flips color from pink to lavender.

Tee hee hee. CMW, I guess we can agree to disagree.

"For the price" -- there lies the rub.

Colormyworld,
I''m dittoing/n-toing you. "Imposter" has a certain denotation, not just connotation.

 

[chrono]

Perhaps the term “imposter” is a rather strong word, but in reading the original post, it is pretty clear to me that we are talking about stones that are of similar colour, although they obviously have different properties, not that a person is deliberately trying to fool others that a particular gemstone is something else.

 

[T L]

Hey Harriet, I knew you would chime in immediately.

Too bad I can''t rename my thread, but what the heck, this topic is fun to discuss.

Tourmalines are often called "imposter" gems because they come in such a wide variety of colors, so that''s where I came up with the name.

 

[colormyworld]

Date: 10/14/2009 3:30:19 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 10/14/2009 3:27:29 PM
Author: colormyworld
Thank you LD for once again ''jumping in''. I guess the term ''imposter'' in the title of this thread implied to me either fooling ones self or fooling others. I see now where I have gone astray.

Oh I didn''t realise that you were moderating and deciding where and when I should post! I will of course ask you before I post next time and make sure you approve of the content shall I?

I said thank you.

 

[Fly Girl]

The imposters I've seen a lot have been blue topaz and aquamarine. You can get a huge blue topaz where an aqua of that color would set you back a fortune. It seems to me that a lot of jewelry stores put them next to each other. So, I'm looking at the pale washed out aquas, and finally see a pretty one, and inevitably it was a blue topaz. But, I never would buy a blue topaz for myself, because I wanted a real aqua. However, last Christmas my son needed a gift for his GF and she loves blue, so I talked him out of the cheap navy blue sapphires, and had him purchase a blue topaz and diamond necklace. It is a great looking stone for the price. She loved it.

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 10/14/2009 1:45:27 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

In the meantime, how about Iolite -v- Tanzanite? This is an Iolite and when I put it next to my Tanzanites it''s very difficult to tell the different. Mind you, these are very nice Iolites!

They are very nice and colors can be very similar but take a careful look at their relative brilliance. The huge difference in R.I. is my first visual "test" (assuming well cut stones). Iolite is dull and rather lifeless compared with tanzanite, which can really sparkle. If I don''t see the sparkle I go to my gemology instruments.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

 

[T L]

Date: 10/14/2009 3:59:42 PM
Author: Richard M.

Date: 10/14/2009 1:45:27 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

In the meantime, how about Iolite -v- Tanzanite? This is an Iolite and when I put it next to my Tanzanites it's very difficult to tell the different. Mind you, these are very nice Iolites!

They are very nice and colors can be very similar but take a careful look at their relative brilliance. The huge difference in R.I. is my first visual 'test' (assuming well cut stones). Iolite is dull and rather lifeless compared with tanzanite, which can really sparkle. If I don't see the sparkle I go to my gemology instruments.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

Very true, and a static picture doesn't always show this. I bet if we were to look at LD's apatite and paraiba side by side IRL, it would be easier to see the differences since apatite has an almost glasslike appearance. However, the color is really spot on. I guess when it comes to color, my favorite attribute in any colored gem, I personally like to find ones with very similar attributes for a more affordable price. There will always be other factors that increase the price of a more expensive stone such as durability, RI, rarity, but it is fun to get a good buy on something with very similar color.

That being said I don't think much can compete with a top, and I mean TOP, quality Kashmir sapphire, Columbian emerald, Burma ruby or Paraiba Tourmaline as far as even color is concerned.

 

[LD]

Date: 10/14/2009 3:59:42 PM
Author: Richard M.

Date: 10/14/2009 1:45:27 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

In the meantime, how about Iolite -v- Tanzanite? This is an Iolite and when I put it next to my Tanzanites it''s very difficult to tell the different. Mind you, these are very nice Iolites!

They are very nice and colors can be very similar but take a careful look at their relative brilliance. The huge difference in R.I. is my first visual ''test'' (assuming well cut stones). Iolite is dull and rather lifeless compared with tanzanite, which can really sparkle. If I don''t see the sparkle I go to my gemology instruments.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

I completely agree - Iolites are generally "flatter" than Tanzanites. The Iolites pictured above don''t have much grey and were the first Iolites that I personally thought somebody who didn''t know any different would say was Tanzanite from a few feet away. I don''t think anybody who knows anything about gemstones would think that - especially in real life! However, you take a gemstone novice and I''m pretty sure that if you put the two side by side they may think they were looking at the same gemstone.

A lady I once worked with proudly showed me her Paraiba Tourmaline and I KNEW without a shadow of a doubt that it was an Apatite! When I knew her better we were discussing her necklace and I slipped in "Apatite" without embarrasing her and she asked how I knew!!! I brought in a few of my PTs and Apatites to show her the difference.

 

[Arcadian]

I like my ''imposter'' gems

I only have a few but none were purchased with the intention of being such. I just like shiny rocks!

I have an orange zircon that has been assumed as a spess. My favorite ring has a blue sapphire that I have had alot of people say "oh, thats a really great looking tanzanite!" Anyway, you get the idea.

I have purchased (but not received) a tsavorite garnet semi eternity ring and you know what? there will be people who will assume its emerald. Granted I will tell them exactly what it is because emeralds to me are too common.

Would people in the know know it? Without a doubt yes! Most people who aren''t into gemstones as much as people here would not have a clue unless you say something, they are just not that observant. Hell, there''s still people out there that thing garnets come in only 1 color!


-A

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 10/14/2009 4:15:15 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 10/14/2009 3:59:42 PM

However, you take a gemstone novice and I''m pretty sure that if you put the two side by side they may think they were looking at the same gemstone.

I agree. In fact some jewelry retailers I know of have taken advantage of that and I''ve caught several of them selling iolite as tanzanite in jewelry. I have to give them a little credit for charging iolite instead of tanzanite prices even though I''m sure not all sellers are that scrupulous.
As I read through this thread I felt strong disagreement with its premise. No gem mineral is an "impostor;" only human beings can accomplish that little deception. A gem is exactly what it is and should be appreciated as such. Gems are very often misrepresented by both sellers and buyers as your apatite story amply illustrates. That''s not honest, whether it comes from sellers wishing to hit a price point or a buyer''s vanity.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

 

[Stone Hunter]

Well I need to add that I didn''t buy the Topaz or the Spess with the intention of fooling anyone, not even myself.

I love the Spess because I love the color and the fact that it''s a Garnet. Adults usually ask what it is and I tell them. I''m pleased to own it. A 9 yo boy thought it was a ruby and I did explain that it was a Garnet and that there would be a HUGE price difference. Of course we were talking about gems and minerals at the time, which explains a 9 yo boy''s interest in my gemstone. LOL

I assume adults know that my blue topaz is a topaz. Perhaps I give them (general public) too much gemstone credit. But I like it''s color and if asked I would call it what it is.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 10/14/2009 9:52:10 PM
Author: Stone Hunter
Well I need to add that I didn't buy the Topaz or the Spess with the intention of fooling anyone, not even myself.

I love the Spess because I love the color and the fact that it's a Garnet. Adults usually ask what it is and I tell them. I'm pleased to own it. A 9 yo boy thought it was a ruby and I did explain that it was a Garnet and that there would be a HUGE price difference. Of course we were talking about gems and minerals at the time, which explains a 9 yo boy's interest in my gemstone. LOL

I assume adults know that my blue topaz is a topaz. Perhaps I give them (general public) too much gemstone credit. But I like it's color and if asked I would call it what it is.

ITA. I would never try to tell anyone that my tsavorite was an emerald

I love each of them for their own characteristics. I was interested in colors that would compliment each other and not spending the high price for a fine quality emerald. The emerald in my ring is a replacement for the original, which had a huge chip in it. My insurance company was willing up pick up the substantial tab for the new emerald. I am thrilled with the tsavorite that Gene custom cut for me

 

[ma re]

About those iolites, they sure are nice examples, but they do lack that obvious, strong purple component usually seen in good tanzanites - so yes LD, I agree you could fool people who''re not into gems with them, but not really someone who''s into them.

P. S. Blue topaz vs. aqua is an interesting topic - close enough R. I., both DR, very similar color...really tough to tell apart by simple observation.

 

[Lovinggems]

Date: 10/15/2009 3:03:33 AM
Author: ma re
About those iolites, they sure are nice examples, but they do lack that obvious, strong purple component usually seen in good tanzanites - so yes LD, I agree you could fool people who''re not into gems with them, but not really someone who''s into them.

P. S. Blue topaz vs. aqua is an interesting topic - close enough R. I., both DR, very similar color...really tough to tell apart by simple observation.

I''ve got a lot to learn

, they look like sapphires or spinels to me.

 

[simplysplendid]

Hmm..

I buy gemstones and appreciate them for what they are. I don''t buy them to pretend that it is some other stone. Even if I can fool others, I can never fool myself.

 

[morecarats]

There are knowledgeable people, such as Campbell Bridges (RIP), who have argued that tsavorite garnet has superior gemstone characteristics when compared to emerald -- much better brilliance, better durability for everyday wear, less maintenance (no oiling), more suitable for different cutting styles, and is completely untreated as well.

While it''s true that Bridges had some skin in the game -- he discovered tsavorite and had his own tsavorite mines -- his arguments deserve serious consideration. Few people who know gemstones well would say that the the color of tsavorite is very similar to emerald (tsavorite tends to have more of a yellow secondary while fine emerald has more of a blue), the color of tsavorite is undoubtedly appealing. If we still had a usuable concept of "precious gem," tsavorite would deserve the title, much more than heated brown zoisite (aka tanzanite).

It is hard to make similar arguments for other cases discussed in this thread. Red spinel is attractive because it has become nearly impossible to find an untreated ruby of good color at an affordable price, and spinel is a high quality stone in its own right. But gems like apatite and iolite are distinctly minor-league stones ...

 

[coati]

Date: 10/14/2009 1:32:30 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 10/14/2009 1:27:32 PM

Author: LovingDiamonds

How about Apatite and Paraiba Tourmaline?


Look at this photo - which is which?

May I do a scratch test?

I know these have been mentioned, but emerald and tsavorite are two totally different animals--I simply cannot substitute one for the other. Same with tanzanite and iolite, apatite and paraiba, and on and on. I appreciate gems for their individual properties/characteristics, but hey! That's just me.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 10/15/2009 9:57:02 AM
Author: morecarats
There are knowledgeable people, such as Campbell Bridges (RIP), who have argued that tsavorite garnet has superior gemstone characteristics when compared to emerald -- much better brilliance, better durability for everyday wear, less maintenance (no oiling), more suitable for different cutting styles, and is completely untreated as well.

While it''s true that Bridges had some skin in the game -- he discovered tsavorite and had his own tsavorite mines -- his arguments deserve serious consideration. Few people who know gemstones well would say that the the color of tsavorite is very similar to emerald (tsavorite tends to have more of a yellow secondary while fine emerald has more of a blue), the color of tsavorite is undoubtedly appealing. If we still had a usuable concept of ''precious gem,'' tsavorite would deserve the title, much more than heated brown zoisite (aka tanzanite).

It is hard to make similar arguments for other cases discussed in this thread. Red spinel is attractive because it has become nearly impossible to find an untreated ruby of good color at an affordable price, and spinel is a high quality stone in its own right. But gems like apatite and iolite are distinctly minor-league stones ...

morecarats,
Are you familiar with the Bridges'' material? I suspect those who think that tsavorite is emerald''s poor cousin have not had the pleasure.