Friend''s with an ex?

[RaiKai]

While I am glad he talked to her, that does not negate my concern for how he handled it with you (or how he reacted to your concerns) in the first place. This situation may be "resolved" but there will be others in the future.

I hope the counseling sessions help...and that he is as willing to work on himself as he seemed to be willing to work on you.

 

[KittyGolightly]

Date: 4/7/2010 12:22:09 PM
Author: RaiKai
While I am glad he talked to her, that does not negate my concern for how he handled it with you (or how he reacted to your concerns) in the first place. This situation may be ''resolved'' but there will be others in the future.

I hope the counseling sessions help...and that he is as willing to work on himself as he seemed to be willing to work on you.

Chemgirl, you do not need to be fixed. You haven''t done anything wrong. He seems to now realize that his ex has feelings for him. He says that he recognizes that their relationship was inappropriate. So why does he continue to accuse you of having trust issues? This makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[fieryred33143]

I''m just going to say it even if people don''t agree.

If I were young and in a relationship with someone for just 8mo, we had no kids, didn''t live together or even in the same country, there''s no way in heck I would be going to counseling. I''m sorry. I would never consider going to counseling to fix a brand new relationship. Maybe its just my opinion but couple''s counseling should be for established couples and I would see it as a huge red flag if its even brought up that early in a relationship with a man that hasn''t even lived in the same country as me.

I''m all for individual counseling at this point but it just seems to be a really complicated relationship.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 4/7/2010 3:36:08 PM
Author: fiery
I''m just going to say it even if people don''t agree.

If I were young and in a relationship with someone for just 8mo, we had no kids, didn''t live together or even in the same country, there''s no way in heck I would be going to counseling. I''m sorry. I would never consider going to counseling to fix a brand new relationship. Maybe its just my opinion but couple''s counseling should be for established couples and I would see it as a huge red flag if its even brought up that early in a relationship with a man that hasn''t even lived in the same country as me.

I''m all for individual counseling at this point but it just seems to be a really complicated relationship.

ITA!

 

[Hest88]

Date: 4/7/2010 3:36:08 PM
Author: fiery

If I were young and in a relationship with someone for just 8mo, we had no kids, didn''t live together or even in the same country, there''s no way in heck I would be going to counseling. I''m sorry. I would never consider going to counseling to fix a brand new relationship.

Huh. Actually, I keep forgetting this point. Since the OP keeps talking about an impending engagement I keep forgetting that they''ve only been together 8 months. Yeah, it *does* seem like an awfully short period of time for this kind of angst. I know that, given the circumstances, you''re probably also still in that majorly "in love" 1st phase of the relationship, and so the thought of giving it up at all is unthinkable. However, I do hope you give yourself some time to wait until this first flush of being in love is over with before you make any life-changing decisions.

 

[RaiKai]

Date: 4/7/2010 3:36:08 PM
Author: fiery
I'm just going to say it even if people don't agree.


If I were young and in a relationship with someone for just 8mo, we had no kids, didn't live together or even in the same country, there's no way in heck I would be going to counseling. I'm sorry. I would never consider going to counseling to fix a brand new relationship. Maybe its just my opinion but couple's counseling should be for established couples and I would see it as a huge red flag if its even brought up that early in a relationship with a man that hasn't even lived in the same country as me.


I'm all for individual counseling at this point but it just seems to be a really complicated relationship.

I believe they have lived in the same country - this long distance bit is a 2-month deal based on a work contract.

Yes, they have only been dating eight months...but they are also talking about getting married.

I personally don't think they are ready in anyway to get married (not due to the time as I do think that every situation is different and some couples are ready to get married that early and are very serious and "established"...but rather the nature of the relationship, and the details that have been shared) but they are talking about it. So, regardless of how long they have been dating, if they plan to continue to date and to get engaged (which it DOES sound like...despite anyone's concerns here - including mine) going to counseling is better than not going to counseling. I think of it as premarital counseling. Or counseling to determine whether they should get engaged at all.

Anyone who has been to couples counseling generally has found out quite rapidly (if they have a good counselor at least) that at the end of the day...it IS about the individuals and less about "fixing" things. Many are referred to individual counseling. This is why many don't end up sticking with it (especially those who like to blame someone else for their own actions)....and I imagine he would not either once he found out that it was not all about her "trust issue" as he diagnosed it himself. I suspect that if they go to counseling.....a lot will come out that is not coming out right now and it will help her (or him - as I do think he has a lot of stuff going on including moving into a serious relationship and talking marriage very soon after ending a very long term relationship) make some better decisions. And, that may mean ending this relationship.

I do agree that there are a lot of complications and I do think that (as I said before) there are way too many red flags from this event. This is not a relationship *I* would continue in knowing what I know now at this stage in my life. My much much younger self might not have known any better. I don't know as I am not in her shoes. However, that being said, it sounds like to me she intends to stay with him. If that is the case, couples counseling is better than just continuing on in a relationship with him without it. The worst that happens is that she might come out of it with a better sense of herself and why she is accepting this sort of treatment.

 

[decodelighted]

Fiery, I see what you''re saying ... but it would be hard to go from "almost engaged" to "over" without turning to look around & say "what if". I''m thinking counseling will help them both define what they think relationships SHOULD be like & then determine if they are right for each other. It would probably be a valuable exercise even if they choose to break up afterwards. What they''d each learn about themselves and their expectations can last a lifetime and help ANY relationship either might be in if they aren''t together.

If this is what has to happen to prevent somehow looking at each other as "the one that got away" --- OR --- to identify & work our their issues before getting engaged, why NOT?

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 4/7/2010 4:13:05 PM
Author: decodelighted
Fiery, I see what you''re saying ... but it would be hard to go from ''almost engaged'' to ''over'' without turning to look around & say ''what if''. I''m thinking counseling will help them both define what they think relationships SHOULD be like & then determine if they are right for each other. It would probably be a valuable exercise even if they choose to break up afterwards. What they''d each learn about themselves and their expectations can last a lifetime and help ANY relationship either might be in if they aren''t together.


If this is what has to happen to prevent somehow looking at each other as ''the one that got away'' --- OR --- to identify & work our their issues before getting engaged, why NOT?

Fair enough.

 

[PumpkinPie]

I also agree that going to couples counselling before the 1 year mark of a relationship is generally a red flag all on its own.. but I can appreciate the value in at least trying it out especially because they are discussing marriage.

 

[IdLikeToBuyAVal]

Chemgirl,

I''ve read all your posts and just wanted to share MY experience. I don''t know if it will be at all helpful but it might...

I tried to make a bad relationship work for entirely too long. I struggled against all kinds of "adversities" that I thought were impeding our relationship, I moved 450 miles from my home to be with him, I was a full time student working an almost full time job and paying 2/3rds of the rent and all of the groceries when he worked a full time job and didn''t go to school "because I''m better with money than he is". I stood up for him and defended him when my friends and family thought he was a loser, I even thought it was a good joke when his MOM said I was too good for him and that she would love to swap kids with MY mom...But when it all came down to it, you shouldn''t have to work that hard to make it work.

At some point, you have to take an objective look at the situation and ask why you are compromising and putting so much effort in. In my case, we moved in after 7 months of long distance dating, lived together 6 months and I moved out. Somehow I thought it was logical to continue trying to make the trainwreck work for another year. It would''ve been much easier to cut my losses when I moved out and looked at him for what he was and still is...someone who is not right for me.

You''ve invested 8 months which is quite a while, but do you really want to work this hard for the next 10, 15, 20, 30 or 50 YEARS defending yourself, defending your thoughts and concerns, and struggling to make him hear YOUR thoughts and opinions??

IMO you should stop thinking about the engagement in the short term. See how the next couple of months go, have him move back to where you both started and see how things progress naturally. Trying to plan for the engagement right now is adding stress to an already stressful situation.

I wish you all the best. And just for the record, the situation with the ex would''ve done it for me. I have too much respect FOR MYSELF to EVER let my significant other put me second. YOU deserve better than that.

 

[chemgirl]

I want to thank everyone again for their concern. However, I do feel that the situation is getting rather distorted (because everyone sees things in their own way!)

I really want to clear up a few facts since I hope to continue participating on PS. I started reading the diamond discussions and looking at the pretty rings several years ago when I was in a different relationship where there was talk of engagement. That one lasted for 3 years, but there were issues with religion and families so it didn''t work out. I suppose I should have started off with a happier thread, but I do hope this can turn around and i''m not always the girl with the jerk boyfriend.

So facts:

Although we have only dated for 8 months, we have known each other for about 9 years. We went to school together and we have many friends in common. Afte school, we continued to run in to each other a few times a year at group events and conferences. Both of us were in relationships before now and never thought about the other romantically until a conference last year (where we were both single). My point is that he''s not a random guy who I just met.

Also, he is in London for 2 months. For the first 8 months of our relationship we lived in the same city. His old apartment is actually less than a five minute drive from my house and we see each other every day (when he''s here).

The relationship hasn''t been a constant battle and I haven''t made any major changes because of him. This is the first disagreement that has taken more than 10 minutes to talk through. He was totally fine with not sleeping over at her house when I asked and he only sees her in groups. His ex brought up the trust issues etc. and he wanted to talk about them. I was furious that THEY talked about US so the conversation became heated rather quickly (and I was very right to be furious, I''m not questioning his poor choice here). We clearly need to work on how we communicate when we''re angry. He started off wanting me to explain, but I couldn''t. My points were probably what anyone of you would say (ie. its not appropriate to sleep over with an ex, she''s seen you naked so she''s not just another female friend etc etc.). He wanted me to explain why it was not appropriate, and I couldn''t, so he started telling me that there was nothing going on with them and I shouldn''t worry. I took that as him dismissing me (which he was) and the conversation went from a talk to a fight. It ended with him saying the stuff about me being posessive and jealous. I agree that its really not cool, but I don''t think its a deal breaker. I mean everybody has disagreements in their relationships. I''m also sure I''ve said things that were uncalled for in the heat of an argument. He did agree with me immediately that it was not cool for them to talk about our relationship and he said he tried to end the conversation without offending her (although he should have just said the topic was off limits, and if she has a problem with that then too bad). He agreed that he would never do anything like that again (and that he wouldn''t want me talking about him to other people either).

He honnestly doesn''t get why ex''s are different than other people. He says he wouldn''t care if I slept over on an ex''s couch because it was more convenient. I actually am friends with an ex (we see each other a few times a year and always with other people) so its not like its a situation that would never come up. I asked a few male friends about what they would do in his situation and most of them said take the early train home or go stay at a hotel. However, they all said their reason was "that their girflriends would kill them" if they stayed over. None of them would hesitate if their girlfriends didn''t care. One guy friend totally didn''t get it at all. He thought it was illogical to spend more money and stay up late travelling

(he''s a huge geek, his nickname is Spock).

He does agree that she is different because I see her as different (if that makes sense) so he''s fine with setting up boundaries with exes if it will make me more comfortable. He says he just wishes I knew why it bothered me so much. I don''t think that''s totally unreasonable at all. It finally sunk in when I told him it was a respect thing (although he had discussed boundaries with her before I had the respect talk with him).

And the facebook thing....

We''re actually in our late twenties. We''re engineering geeks so we had facebook for years before it was actually popular. He wasn''t really communicating with her very much while he was in Canada, so she used it as a way of communicating with him. It really got to me to see cutsy messages from her every day. He never responded to them, but he felt awkward telling her to stop (since the messages are innocent if taken at face value). He figured if he ignored them she''d get the hint. My friends noticed this when they added him and started checking every day. They were doing it out of concern, but also because it was entertaining. He was inspired by the new Southpark last night and deleted his account.

And finally, we''re not getting counceling to save the relationship, but to help us communicate better. We are still considering engagement (we are going to revisit the idea after a few counceling sessions) and I don''t see a problem with anyone having pre-marital counceling. I think its a great idea. Too many people get engaged/married without knowing their partner''s stance on important issues. I see this as a way to lay everything out and make a plan together.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Thank you for giving us more background info chemgirl. I can appreciate that there is much more to your relationship than this latest issue Good luck with counselling and please stick around PS!

 

[choro72]

Chemgirl, he sounds EXACTLY like my ex. Ex was an engineer. I'll skip the details, but this is exactly the kind of "logic game" he pulled. Since your first question was on how to articulate the problem, here goes.

The ex clearly thinks that she is turning him against you, painting you as a bad guy, and she's succeeding. She is succeeding because your boyfriend is allowing it to happen. As long as he doesn't tell her to shove it, she is going to think that she has an edge. He was uncomfortable with the comments wasn't he? That's because he KNOWS her comments are appropriate only coming from a girlfriend.

Her comments on facebook are innocent at face value? Of course they are. I can call your boyfriend a son of a b****, and at face value that just means that he's the son of a female dog. You can't just look at words and ignore the intentions behind them.

"as long as you believe in us it's not a problem"? Then get off his lazy butt and do something to make you believe in "us". You want someone that says "I'm in love with chemgirl, back off". If he want to call that possessive, fine. It's a quality in a man that any devoted girl deserves.

Maybe equations will help?
Him doing nothing = ex is allowed to continue = makes you unhappy and pissed off
being a lifelong partner = doing what makes you happy
In a relationship => one makes REASONABLE demand = other honors it
Makes chemgirl uncomfortable = DON'T DO IT
why? because important to one = important to the other = necessary in relationship

I'm so angry for you. Here's a hint. I broke up with my ex when I made guy friends who did anything for their girlfriends (now wives) without asking why. I saw how they treated their girls and I simply said "I want that!"

ETA, I looked at my equations and thought about what my ex would have said. He would have asked why "ex's comments = you unhappy"?
ex's comments + actions = crossing girlfriend boundaries = your bf should stop it
however,
your bf doesn't stop it = you unhappy

Really, he needs people to explain this?

 

[junebug17]

I don't blame you a bit for feeling the way you do, you are completely justified. Ok, fine, they have to work together, but drinks? Hanging out socially? Sleeping over? And she has the nerve to make you out to be the bad guy? But, IMO, your bf is no angel in this. I don't really care if "nothing is going on". He should respect your feelings and knock it off with this ex. He may not be doing anything "wrong" but he's having a grand old time, and probably enjoying the attention. It's disrespectful to you, and I think it's a shame he can't see that. I hope he eventually takes your feelings into consideration.

ETA: Sorry, I missed the post about him talking to her. It's a start, but I still feel there are issues here. Stick to your guns, you have good reason to feel the way you do, and I hope he's including himself in these counseling sessions, because he has a little work to do IMO.