First diamond purchase for an engagement ring

[Vladovici]

Hello Everyone,

I have just ordered my first diamond for an engagement ring which I intend to offer to my girlfriend.

From an awesome experience walking around the stores and talking to sellers it kind of turned out into a disastrous experience.

After selecting a few shops, I have found one which I like, also from the fact that I got to talk to the managing director (just luck) so I have thought that his level of expertise will help me choose a diamond as I like.
I am more interested in the fire, the rainbow, rather the white sparkle.

Besides messing with my schedule to try to fit his own tight schedule just so I get to benefit from his expertise when choosing the diamond, he seemed quite uninterested in giving much advice and was sort of bothered of my questions regarding the best proportions. I basically picked one from a list by looking at pictures which all look similar.

I chose a 0.4 carat, Color grade D, VVS2, GIA Cut 3x, no fluorescence.
It also has pinpoint, cloud, intended natural as faults.

The proportions are:
Table: 59%
Depth: 62.2
Crown: 35.5
Pavilion 41.2%
4% faceted.
80% lower side


Considering he gave me a fixed price regardless of the diamond I chose and acted like I care too much about the numbers since GIA cut is excellent so they are all the same...I chose the cheapest one (1300Euros) as he had only 3 faults (next ones had 4 listed).

After I got the GIA certificate number, i checked its HCA score and it turned out 4.2 with Fair performance on Fire.

The seller is reluctant to choose other diamond.
Do I overreact regarding this diamond or it may just be fine?

Highly appreciating your input.

GIA number: 6455525602

Thank you!
Regards,
Vlad.

 

[lovedogs]

I would return the diamond and start again with a new vendor. Most vendors who don't have access to well cut stones try to convince consumers that all GIA XXX are good. In reality, many GIA XXX are terrible.

 

[lovedogs]

Examples of well cut stones in the same price range:

1. https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/18395614

2. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...at-f-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-15866360

3.https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.61-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-6512081

 

[lovedogs]

Also, you don't need VVS clarity in such a small stone, or D color (unless specifically requested by the recipient). You will be fine with eye clean SI1+ and H+ color

 

[lovedogs]

If you want the best possible cut, go with a super ideal vendor (Brian gavin, whiteflash, Victor canera), and choose one of their in house stones. You'll pay more, but the stones are cut to exact proportions and will be as firey as possible.

Example:

Diamond | 0.614 ct E VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4459141

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.614 carat E color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4459141

www.whiteflash.com

 

[Vladovici]

Thanks a lot for the advice!!

I am from Europe so it is hard for me to reach those diamonds. I will rely on a vendor but i ll check of those are reachable for them in case i can get a new diamond.

 

[DiamondDust13]

I am not a professional. However I highly recommend James Allen at least for figuring out what to look for. I have found looking at the HD videos of different diamonds extremely helpful. Here is an example of a few diamond that you may like on their website. They don't have a large selection of Super Ideal cut hearts and aarows round diamonds however. I recommend White Flash as well for those beautiful quality diamonds.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.41-carat-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-19975832

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.44-carat-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-20853807

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks a lot for the advice!!

I am from Europe so it is hard for me to reach those diamonds. I will rely on a vendor but i ll check of those are reachable for them in case i can get a new diamond.

Blue Nile ships internationally, as does James Allen and whiteflash.

 

[Vladovici]

Good news, just got off the phone with the jeweler, he has managed to cancel the order.
therefore i will be picking a new diamond tomorrow.
i'll make sure to choose one between 1 and 2 on HCA.

thanks all! i ll be back with a feedback tomorrow

 

[Vladovici]

Blue Nile ships internationally, as does James Allen and whiteflash.

too much hassle. wouldve been a valid option if i wouldnt have paid already 50% of the whole ring (not just the diamond).

not going back on my word with the jeweler, im happy he has managed to cancel the order at this point.

who knows, maybe after this diamond we'll get a taste of them (me and my gf) and we'll buy some more.
i plan on buying her a pair of earrings after the ring.

 

[mayaINaU]

Thanks a lot for the advice!!

I am from Europe so it is hard for me to reach those diamonds. I will rely on a vendor but i ll check of those are reachable for them in case i can get a new diamond.

Whiteflash ships to almost every country. Reach out to them. I would not return to the vendor who thought you were “overly concerned” with diamond performance. The only vendor who would say that is one who doesn’t have very well performing diamonds to offer you!
Maybe it’s a US versus Europe thing, but I don’t think anyone here would think that you are going back on your word with the vendor. You’re not happy with what he shared with you, you’re not happy with his responsiveness to your request, and you don’t have full confidence that he will get you the best cut diamond. That’s not going back on your word. This is just a business agreement and you can choose to ask for your deposit back.

 

[lovedogs]

Whiteflash ships to almost every country. Reach out to them. I would not return to the vendor who thought you were “overly concerned” with diamond performance. The only vendor who would say that is one who doesn’t have very well performing diamonds to offer you!
Maybe it’s a US versus Europe thing, but I don’t think anyone here would think that you are going back on your word with the vendor. You’re not happy with what he shared with you, you’re not happy with his responsiveness to your request, and you don’t have full confidence that he will get you the best cut diamond. That’s not going back on your word. This is just a business agreement and you can choose to ask for your deposit back.

This.

 

[0515vision]

I think some European PSers have mentioned Diamonds77.com. Maybe if you search the threads you can see what they have to say. But I believe last yr someone used them with good results.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Not everyone wants to order a diamond from half way around the world! I totally get that.

OP I think if you choose a stone that is GIA XXX and you run the numbers though the HCA then you will have done due diligence and wind up with a very nicely cut stone. I second the recommendation to consider a GH color and VS2 or even SI1 clarity. This will still look clean and white and maybe your budget will stretch to a half carat? If size doesn’t matter to you then you can save some money and put it towards a fancier setting.

I’m not wild about the customer service you have received or the business model. I would probably look elsewhere if there are other options.

 

[Vladovici]

Im overwhelmed by the support you offer and im at all times a picky customer and i agree with you, i should turn to another seller. Maybe im just too emotional about the ring and Ive got a lot going on right now, i just dont want to get in an argument with him and start looking again for another seller, would take too much time.

Besides, i get to see gia certificates for the diamonds he has access to and being more informed now i will pick one with that does not have a bad hca score.

Ill take ur advice and considering the small size of the diamond ill reduce the properties so i get to a 0.5 carat, i ll see what my options are. I dont mind adding money to it either, just that i started with a smaller budget and kept increasing it while picking rings...we all do that, right?

Now, i see that there is a balance between sparkle and fire. What proportion would favor more fire in spite of white sparkle?

The thing is that my gf never wears rings so i dont think she will wear this one for long unless she will really like it. When i was playing around with rings on my finger, there was a ring that at slight finger moved it had so much fire that the red color felt like an arrow in my eye. Thats what im looking for.

The seller also offered me platinum at the same.price of 18k gold. I wanted 14k gold but he doesnt work with 14k so...either plat either 18k.

Any take in this? I find plat so heavy in finger, considering my gf doesnt wear rings ... I think she ll feel the weight of platinum.


I may just buy her diamond earrings now. What should diamond should i pick for them?
I think of some small ones, applied in ear (not the kind of earrings that hang down from the ear)

 

[Vladovici]

Ps. Is in here any forum dedicated to European countries? If not perhaps i may start one, talking about posting costa, eu import custom taxes, procedures, etc.

 

[Dreamer_D]

There are setting styles that are super comfortable, like bezel and burnish set, and perhaps your girlfriend would like to wear something like that? I’m that case a smaller diamond may be the best choice!

As the balancing fire and whiteness, if you stick to GIA XXX and select stones with nice HCA scores it will narrow you in on well balanced stones. You can increase the chances of bold flash if you further select a diamond with shorter lower halves. That is the facet down the pavilion and it can be 80% which produces a very thin splintery facet patter, or as short at 70% (rounded to nearest 5% on the lab report) which makes fat arrows and bolder flashes of light. Also looking for a slightly higher crown height can help, but keeping in the ideal range the HCA recommends and ensuring the crown and pavilion angles are complimentary. But ultimately you need to see in person to know how it performs.

 

[Vladovici]

As for the style, i ll go for solitaire classic 6 prong style, keeping it simple, letting the diamond shine

Havent managed to get to the store today, i ll get there tomorrow!

It ll take about a week to have it delivered afterwards so i can tell you my impresions.
Thx for the advices Dreamer_D.

 

[0515vision]

Here are two, diamonds from 77diamonds.com. They look good to me, but definitely have the experts chime in. I didn’t know exactly what your parameters were, so feel free to browse their site for more selections.

Tagging @Kim N and @DejaWiz.

I’m not familiar with European mined prices, so I have no idea if these are fair quotes. Their hearts & arrows designation seems to fall within optimal angles.

I can’t seem to figure out how to insert the link to the actual diamond on their page. Hence the photos and GIA reports.

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=6234202536

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=5231202463

 

[Vladovici]

Thanks so much! I ll check with the dealer if he has access to those 2 GIA reports numbers.
Sadly, too late for me to pick one directly from 77diamonds.
Couldve been easier...and surely cheaper

 

[mayaINaU]

Ps. Is in here any forum dedicated to European countries? If not perhaps i may start one, talking about posting costa, eu import custom taxes, procedures, etc.

I’m not aware of one, but I want to tag @BensonLoe, who I believe is from Germany. He came on the forum a year ago or so and purchased a diamond ring from Whiteflash. He just came back recently and is looking for earrings. He might be able to tell you about his experience purchasing as a European.

For earrings: You are referring to studs, which sit on the ear and do not dangle. I would recommend Whiteflash (or Brian Gavin) again for this. My reason for recommending these two super-ideal vendors when people are new to diamond purchasing is that you will be able to get a perfectly cut, precision stone, with ideal light performance (tons of sparkle) without having to do all the analysis yourself. Then after you see their product and have one in hand, I think you’ll be better able to go off on your own and judge the performance of other stones if you choose to do that in the future. For me, I take comfort in knowing that I have the absolute best performer so I can compare other stones to it in the future if I make other purchases from different vendors. If I make tradeoffs or concessions in the performance of diamonds in future purchases, it’s because I know exactly what trade offs I am making, and not because I just don’t know any better. Some people do not put as high importance on super ideal stones, and that is totally valid. But I do believe that for a significant purchase such as engagement ring, if you are not an experienced buyer, you should start out with the best so that you can be more informed in the future.
Good luck in your search. You are asking all the right questions.

 

[Vladovici]

Well, i ll just create one during the weekend and whilst I do that i ll do some research on customs tax and all that
This is a hella nice and welcoming community, wanna contribute to it.

By the way, out of curiosity, whats the margin on the price of diamonds, how much do the sellers actually add to it? Anyone has a clue? 25% 50% 100%?

 

[WillyDiamond]

OP
If I remember correctly the HCA is not an “acceptance” tool but rather a “rejection” tool.
I would not concern myself with what a jeweler’s margins are on a diamond. What is important do you feel good about the price?
Also glad you have given up on the D color, for such a size stone you are looking at you get a better bang for the buck (or whatever currency you use). Good luck and let us know how she likes it.

 

[Vladovici]

Thank you Mayal and Willy.

Maybe i won't choose the stone on sight, i ll just note the GIA numbers and have them posted here so you may help me choose one of the ones i filter.

About the margin, its just a curiosity, doesnt matter.

Just reconsidered the earrings, i ll see how she likes the diamond and perhaps i ll get them for her birthday. Would be too much a ring and a set of earrings.

Wish i could order more diamonds and pick one after seeing it but thats not possible and all stores I have been in are only having quite low characteristics, many of them not even excellent cut!!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

OP
If I remember correctly the HCA is not an “acceptance” tool but rather a “rejection” tool.
I would not concern myself with what a jeweler’s margins are on a diamond. What is important do you feel good about the price?
Also glad you have given up on the D color, for such a size stone you are looking at you get a better bang for the buck (or whatever currency you use). Good luck and let us know how she likes it.

It is technically a rejection tool but when combined with a GIA report and your own eyes a “don’t reject” score functions the same as “accept” imo.

 

[DejaWiz]

Here are two, diamonds from 77diamonds.com. They look good to me, but definitely have the experts chime in. I didn’t know exactly what your parameters were, so feel free to browse their site for more selections.

Tagging @Kim N and @DejaWiz.

I’m not familiar with European mined prices, so I have no idea if these are fair quotes. Their hearts & arrows designation seems to fall within optimal angles.

I can’t seem to figure out how to insert the link to the actual diamond on their page. Hence the photos and GIA reports.

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=6234202536

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=5231202463

That 0.55 is delicious - nice find!

Loose Diamonds

Best selection of cut loose diamonds. To buy diamonds online choose from over 400,000 loose diamonds at wholesale prices.

www.77diamonds.com

 

[Vladovici]

What do you think of this gia diamond?

1488569271

 

[Vladovici]

2486409792
1473952397
2377354758
1489817907
6471163186

Or these. Watcha think?

 

[Vladovici]

Ive got back home from the jeweller.
This time, I got to talk to a woman which was super nice, taking all the time needed to search for the right diamond, we spent few hours looking at a lot of them.
She has completely erased the unpleasant experience from my previous visit so I declare myself satisfied of the encounter this time, will surely get back there but to talk only with her.

as for the diamond:
I have mainly been look for:
PA; 40.8
CA: 34-35 deg
taking into account the info from here:

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

The one that fits perfectly this proportion is:

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1489817907

PROPORTIONS​

Depth	61.9%
Table	57%
Crown Angle	35.0°
Crown Height	15.0%
Pavilion Angle	40.8°
Pavilion Depth	43.0%
Star Length	50%
Lower Half	80%
Girdle	Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet	None

HCA: 1.4 Big apperance
I really like this one, considering taking it.

However, i took note that diamonds a little "fat" do have more fire and we took a look at some of them, such as:

2486409792

PROPORTIONS​

Depth	61.0%
Table	56%
Crown Angle	34.0°
Crown Height	15.0%
Pavilion Angle	40.6°
Pavilion Depth	42.5%
Star Length	50%
Lower Half	75%
Girdle	Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet	None

HCA 0.5 Big appearence

Now, the second one seemed to have a little bit more fire in the 360deg video but that 360deg video does not really help, it aint like the one from whiteflash which shows in so much detail its fire and sparkle.

Out of all the diamonds I have mentioned in previous posts, I've checked 3 diamonds by the HCA and 2 of them had 1.4 HCA score ( 1489817907 and 1488569271) whilst 2486409792 has a 0.5

According to the Pricescope proportion guide,
40.8 PA and 35 CA should have lower halves 80% which the 1489817907 diamond has. 15% crown height, good table and depth.

Im kinda set to buy this one, what do you all think?

It has a feather fault inside which was clearly seen in the 360degrees video and it was reflected a lot inside of it and few pinpoints. being VVS2 i dont think it matters anyway, also colour D.


I took your advice and looked for other colours (E,F) as well and also for a VS2 clarity for 0.5 carats. the price would go up by 250 dollars given that i may pick one of the cheapest diamonds, not one that has these perfect proportions therefore, given that i have D/VVS2 being budgeted I said i'll keep it that way, dont care that much that I could save some money.
Just helps me to think that the diamond is close to perfect tho


Later edit: 77Diamonds do not ship to the country I live in therefore its out of discussion...

 

[0515vision]

2486409792
1473952397
2377354758
1489817907
6471163186

Or these. Watcha think?

Are these report numbers? Could you post the videos or certificates? It’s too much to ask ppl to look up the reports. That’s why no one has commented.