Chip discovered AFTER purchase

[deny]

It really baffles me that he will not refund the ring for a customer who is so very unhappy with his product! That alone makes me question his practices. What is his return policy?

I am sorry you have to go through this during your engagement period. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be. It''s apparent you have the full support of your fiance, so stay strong together and see it through until you are both happy with the results. I wouldn''t settle for anything less.

 

[Hannahsb21]

thanks so much, its if good to hear.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/6/2005 1:23:48 PM
Author: RockDoc
This reply is to Ajldewey''s post.

The applicable law here is very different than you''ve explained.

I think you misinterpret my comments, RockDoc.

I didn''t explain any law.....and never said my comments were to be construed as such. It''s not appropriate for anyone to offer legal advice other than "go seek counsel".

Having said that, I will point you back to one comment you''ve made: "The seller held himself to be an expert, and has a duty to have examined the diamond to make sure it was the quality as described in the report by EGL."

Why this keeps getting ignored is beyond me, but I''ll take one final stab at it: the quality described in the EGL report is the quality *AS SEEN AT 10X MAG, NOT AT 60X MAG*. Since the report by EGL was done at 10x mag, it stands to reason that the seller needs to do likewise and examine the diamond at 10x mag. Providing he doesn''t see the chip under 10x mag either, I''m not sure how you can say he failed that duty.

Regardless, it''s pointless to keep repeating the same points over. I wouldn''t wish this kind of trouble on anyone, and I''m sorry that they are going through this. It''s too bad the seller doesn''t seem inclined to help find a satisfactory solution.

 

[MiniMouse]

Hannah, I sypathize with you wholeheartedly on this one. You believed you were buying a perfect stone and that is what you paid for. It should have been a very happy occasion and you should have felt like the luckiest girl in the world.

I don''t believe anyone would buy an IF stone with a chip, not for top dollar. In fact many people steer clear of stones with chips full stop, even if they are discounted. Maybe I expect too much, but if I buy a perfect stone, I expect a perfect stone, I don''t expect to find there''s a serious chip at any magnification, not 10x or 60x or any other strength for that matter. It''s all the more worse for you because the damage on your stone is likely to hinder resetting.

I am seriously disappointed with the vendor for not making good, even if it cannot be guaranteed 100% that the stone was chipped prior to sale. He has more flexibility in recouping any loss from taking the stone back and recutting/repolishing it. Surely this is worth doing to retain customer satisfaction and a good reputation. I''m sad that he has not offered to take the stone back as this has resulted in poor publicity which he perhaps does not deserve, from which he stands to lose an awful lot of custom. He is really in a no win situation, but I suspect his loss would have been minimal had he taken the stone back.

Just reading your case, and whether the vendor is at fault or not, there is no way I would consider buying from him, purely because of your experience. I would hope that a vendor would give me the benefit of the doubt on such an expensive and major purchase, especially since I am likely to take darn good care of a diamond after paying so much for it. It wasn''t cheap!

I personally would be very upset about the diamond and any thoughts of using the stone in my engagement ring wouldn''t sit right with me, even if the damage could be fixed by recutting/repolishing. The stone would hold upsetting memories for me, but there again I''m a sensitive soul and maybe you''re a bit tougher and less sentimental than me. I hope so.

If you are and you still love the stone (it does sound wonderful) then is there any point in trying to get resolution with the vendor by asking him if he would agree (as a goodwill gesture) to recut/repolish the stone at his expense and offer you a discount on a setting, if he sells settings? It''s not a perfect solution, but in your current situation it may well resolve things quicker and more cheaply than going through the courts. We all hate friction and disagreements, it''s nice to have harmony, especially when you''re at such an exciting time in your life, when you have so much to look forward to. I''m sure you just want to move on, get your ring completed and be able to flash it around so everyone can share in your happiness.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/7/2005 7:33:51 AM
Author: Feydakin


I just did some quick searching for a 1.3ct IF - F with a GIA cert and I'm seeing pricing starting at over $9,000 and heading up through $11,000.. I was curious about the price of $7,500 for an IF-F since they are hard to find anyway..

Try a new search... the price does fit F-VS1.

... anyway. It can't hurt to know just how long "IF" remains flawless under wear.

Does it even make sense to go for the grade ??? Since it really can jump three grades lower at the slightest dammage.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 3/7/2005 7:33:51 AM
Author: Feydakin
Interesting comment minimouse ''you get what you pay for''..

I just did some quick searching for a 1.3ct IF - F with a GIA cert and I''m seeing pricing starting at over $9,000 and heading up through $11,000.. I was curious about the price of $7,500 for an IF-F since they are hard to find anyway.. Looks like she got an amazing price to me even with a minor flaw on outside of the stone which should not negate an ''internally flawless'' grade..

I do sympathize with Hannah and Dan about their dilema.. I am sure we would have refunded her money with no hesitation or question if she were even the slightest bit unhappy, as would many, if not all, of the established retailers.. Best of luck in resolving this problem to your satisfaction..

I wondered about this myself. I''m also still wondering how a minutia chip seen at 60x is an issue? I can remember Garry calling me on a VS1 stone & a feather that broke the surface. He said is was a non issue. And that feather was easily viewed at 10x.

I do think they should be satisfied. I''m just still confused as to *why* this "chip" is an issue with this particular stone.

 

[Hannahsb21]

When I went to buy the stone I did not anticipate getting an internally flawless or F color. I was thinking G and as long as there were no mosquitos in it. However, when I say this stone, it was the first after a month of looking that one really caught my eye and I knew instantly that it was the one I wanted. When I found out about it''s quality and additional cost, I felt that it was ok for two reasons, one I loved it and two I felt like i was getting a really quality and fairly unique stone.



This is from a post of mine a few days ago. I do not feel bashed but be assured I was very aware of the premium I was paying, but loved the stone. If it turned out to be D color and I loved it, fine, I color, fine. This was the stone that I loved.

Of course hindsight is 20/20 but I did plenty of research before hand and what I knew would have served me very well had the jeweler been straight. My real education came in the five days after the discovery in talking to local jewelers and Nancy especially. The past 72 hours have been interesting, but mostly individuals debating about the accuracy of what I learned and their opinion on the diagnosis. The only thing I would have changed is to have an unbiased jeweler take a look at the stone. Sadly this is something my mother suggested but I felt it was too much trouble due to the circumstances and just trusted Tony. (He said the stone was leaving town the next day for another show and I wasn''t able to get my mom''s jeweler in that day)

Finally, the problem with this chip, even though it is so small, is that it cannot be safely set and must be recut or polished. That, is a problem and would disconcern any buyer. In addition, the chip, slice, whatever, sliced deep enough into the stone, such that in it''s regrade, it becomes VS1 according to Nancy Stacy becomes it acually goes into the diamond. And though it seems like a reasonable solution to have Tony adjust the stone, I with every fiber of my being do not trust him with it and would rather risk setting it that have him work with it.

Forgive me if I sound curt, but it seems that issues already addressed resurface. I do appreciate the opinions and clarifying questions because it helps everyone.

 

[mrssalvo]

hannah,
please forgive me if my question has already been answered in this post but I am just learning about diamonds and grading and am very confused with your situation. Did tony know there was a chip at 60x? If so, he was wrong to not tell you and should give you a refund. But if the stone had the cert which is done at 10x, which is it's only requirement, and tony only looked at it at 10x how is it his fault? I understand you wanting a flawless stone because that is what you paid for and thought you were getting. did you ask tony if it was flawless at 60x? did you look at it yourself under different magnifications?
you are the customer and should be happy i just hope your standards are realistic ones? like i said, i don't know very much but i would think it would be very difficult to find a flawless stone at 60x.
do you still love the stone? i recently had my stone re-appraised and in the 5 years of my possession it has dropped in clarity from a vs2 to an si2. i could recut or sell but I LOVE IT and no one can see the chips without a loop. so like val said it probably won't remain flawlass forever. good luck, your situation has really helped me in what types of questions i need to be sure to ask and the importance of having an indepentant appraisal done before the spend the $$$

 

[Mara]

One other comment regarding 'Internally Flawless'.

Diamonds ARE graded at 10x mag. When a diamond receives an IF grade, it does not mean that diamond has NO inclusions in it. It means that the inclusions were not visible at a 10x magnification...which is how diamonds are graded.

I agree with mrssalvo regarding realistic expectations. I am not talking about Tony and what he should do, but it is important that you realize that just because you bought an IF stone ... it does not mean that the diamond is 'perfect'...all it really means as you noted, it does not have any 'mosquitos' visible in it.

Many people do not realize that IF (or even FL) does not mean the diamond is truly flawless. Diamonds are graded at 10x mag so the cert is correct to note that it is IF, as 10x mag is how the grading is done.

Note this terminology from a trade website:

IF (Internally Flawless):
Internally Flawless Diamonds reveal no inclusions and only insignificant blemishes on the surface under 10x magnification.

Again, note the 10x mag. I think why people are rehasing this 60x mag thing over and over is to drill home that the BOTTOM LINE here is that this stone was GRADED as an IF. That is how Tony sold it. Regardless of whether he knew or not, or should take it back or not, it was graded as IF at 10x mag. Anything beyond that is an entire other point.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[mrssalvo]

ok...here's a pic of my stone and the 2 chips. Rich told me that this would not be a problem to set with or without repolishing, it's eye clean and a good setter can work around it. My jeweler confirmed this and said he could set it has is if the chips don't bother me. how could her stone have setting problems and mine not??? does shape make a difference??

ok for some reason it won't let me upload the pic.
i'll try again..

 

[mrssalvo]

Here ya go.... sorry to highjack your thread hannah...just curious about how it is determined what is a safe chip to set and those that are not...

 

[Christy42]

Hannah, I''m sure you are tired of hearing all of this and anything I might say could be redundant at best but maybe not. I must have missed something when I submitted my first post because I thought there was still a possibilty of returning the stone. I do apologize for that. I also apologize for the length of this post to everyone. Put your reading glasses on.....

If I understand this correctly, he won''t allow you to return it because he says that the chip had to have occurred after the sale, right? The stone cannot be set now unless it is recut and polished, right? I believe I also read that there is some question about the amount of carat weight you would lose at this point, right? I think if you loved the stone and this blemish were not preventing you from setting it, this may not even be an issue, right? Obviously, you can''t see it, you just can''t set it. So, now it''s useless without changing the stone, right? I''m just trying understand your thoughts. If this is the case, then I agree with you. I think you''ve gotten a raw deal.

Here''s my thoughts, for whatever this is worth, I''m just learning too. Logically speaking, if the stone is graded at 10X, then most jewelers would take that at face value and not look at a diamond under 60X. I''m assuming. Why bother, it doesn''t matter. I wouldn''t think most jewelers would question a reputable cert. They may inspect the diamond but not at 60X. Again, why bother. According to what I''ve read here, IF doesn''t really mean IF at 60X, only at 10X. I gather from what the fellow PS''ers have said, that seeing nothing under 60X in an IF, is not commonplace. I didn''t know this either. With that said, buying a stone incapable of being set without more work, is even more uncommon. My point being that the chip very well could have been there before the sale. The real issue is that the chip is preventing it from being set. We can hem and haw about who did it, if anyone , but legally no one will ever know.

All I''m saying is that I don''t think the jeweler can say that the diamond had to have been chipped after the purchase because he probably wouldn''t have looked at it under 60X. If it could only be seen under 60X, then his statement is as much speculation as yours is. And apparently an IF can certainly have chips like this that aren''t included in the cert because of their insignificance since they can only be seen at 60X. With all that said, it looks to me that this could swing in your favor. I don''t want to give you false hope, but at worst this gives you a 50/50 chance. I just don''t think that a jeweler or a buyer, according to what I''ve read here, have any responsibility to look at it under 60X. Then neither of you would have known at the time that this diamond had issues over and above the minute chip. I would think if you act quickly, you could prove that the diamond''s real issue is the fact that it can''t be set because of a chip that was excluded from the grading which again if it could be set, is not uncommon. So, in essence, as you said you bought a lemon. You bought a stone that could have been new, graded according to standards, but doesn''t work.

So, I think this all depends on you. I wouldn''t want to just settle for stone that I couldn''t set, but only a lawyer can tell you if there is a possibility of winning. Also there is the additional cost of the lawyer and the time and anguish whether you win or not. I know you said that court wasn''t one of those things you wanted to do. I''m sorry that you are having to deal with this right now and I hope you can resolve this. I''m not sure what I would do, but I believe I would at least check with a lawyer. Sometimes just a letter from a lawyer can change someone''s tune.

If you don''t find that you have a case or don''t want to pursue that, I hope that the stone can be recut and polished without losing too much and maybe your setting can make up the difference in size appearance.

As far as trusting that jeweler, I don''t know that I blame you. He should have known the things that these PS''ers know. I''ve discovered that PS is full of everyday people that know a heck of a lot more than the jewelers and salespeople do. Sad, but true. I bought some defective silver earrings many years ago. (Much less money involved) When I returned them, the same man who had said they were a new business and they were striving for good customer service when I bought them, began yelling at me and said the earrings I had worn one time for a very short period looked like they had mud all over them. He asked me if I had let a horse stomp on them. He really got psychotic on me. I, of course got psychotic too in front of his other customers, and he returned them. Again, much less money though. They didn''t stay here long.....Hope this helped and I hope you are still awake after reading that....JMO.....

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 3/7/2005 3:41:19 PM

And this I do disagree with.. I have not seen the ''chip'' but I find it almost impossible to believe that it can''t be set by any decent setter.. I know we have set far more damaged stones with no issues at all, and we have broken apparently perfect stones.. I just can''t believe that a chip that can not be seen at 10x unless you first view it at 60x and then know exactly what to look for can be that dangerous to set for anyone that knows how to set a stone well.. I know this isn''t what you want ot hear, but I have had a real hard time grasping the severity of the ''chip'' being that small and that dangerous at the same time..

Of course I am perfectly willing to be wrong as well.. But without pictures, or a report from Nancy in her words, it''s very hard to make a call on more than just what we have experienced in the past..

Which is why the issue keeps resurfacing? The poster says she claims it *can not* be set. It defies logic to those that deal with this very issue every day. In no way has the issue been put to rest. But, you believe it has. I suppose that is all that matters. I kept asking the question in reference to any stones.

How would this be any different from taking care with setting a feather that broke the surface?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/7/2005 2:30:41 PM
Author: Hannahsb21

Finally, the problem with this chip, even though it is so small, is that it cannot be safely set and must be recut or polished.

First, I'm glad you don't feel bashed because that's certainly not the intention. Folks are really trying to help here.

Regarding the above, I guess I read your FI's comments a bit differently. Dan's post says the jeweler said he wasn't *comfortable* setting the stone. I didn't understand that to mean it *couldn't* be done, just that he wasn't personally comfortable doing it.

That's not terribly uncommon....there are jewelers who don't feel comfortable setting stones purchased from someone else for the same reason. It's not worth the $50 they might make to set the stone to take on the responsibility of potentially damaging a multi-thousand-dollar stone.

I certainly hope there is a way to set it as is for your sake. It seems like you've been through more than enough already.

 

[baltneu]

Sorry if this sounds obvious..............but I guess it makes a whole lot of sense before buying a stone to have it appraised. I remember the appriaisor looking at my stone under a microscope, I assume it was more than 10x to check for chips, and he looked at it again after it was set in its setting. I had to get it re-appraised before the insurance co would insure it, but my appraisor (David Wolf) said another reason is to make sure that the diamond was not chipped between the time he saw it as a loose diamond and it being set. He told me that the greatest chance for chipping was when it is set. whew.......

 

[Christy42]

Okay, just when I think I understand, I''ve lost momentum again. I think a lot went on while I was writing my novel back there.


Dave,
I thought it quite uncommon to buy a stone that couldn''t be set but I suppose it''s possible. I''m thinking that it''s more of an issue that another setter, being wary already because they didn''t sell the stone, might not want to set it now that this info has come to light. Does a setter look at it under 60X before he sets it? Are all stones capable of being set without being recut or polished? Or are you just saying that all stones can be set one way or another even if recutting and repolishing are necessary? Just for my info?

Hannah''s probably not reading us anymore but it''s too bad she doesn''t have 60X pictures.

 

[perry]

I have follwed this thead for several days. 2 things sound fishy to me...

1) We are only hearing one side of the information. What is the Jewelers story... Hannasb21 claims that his diamond has a chip in it that can only be discovered at 60X and that the original jeweler did him wrong - and refuses to refund the money for the diamond. The claims and arguments on what is wrong and why he was wronged are presented in such a way that perhaps I can understand the jeweler''s point of view.

2) Approach is everything. I get the sense that Hannasb21 may not have approached the original jeweler in a very good method. In fact, if Hannasb21 tossed some of his aguments at me I might just as well treat him the same. Sometime''s it pays to fire a customer.

3) Should Hannasb21 really claim that the jeweler misrepresented things based on a chip that can only be discovered under 60X I suspect at some point the jeweler could justly sue him - and win not only monetary damages but also a restraining order. I would not want to be in his shoes if the jeweler discoveres this post thead and decieded to take action.

4) I do not see any facts whatsoever that the diamond was misrepresented. I do see evidence to indicate that Hannasb21 does not seem to understand there is no such thing as a perfect diamond and diamond grading methods.

I think that it is time to move on folks. Just because someone cries wolf - doesn''t mean that others are in danger.

Perry

 

[Hannahsb21]

Hello People,

So I stated, the stone cannot be "safely" set. Of course it can be set, with some risk. though there is risk in setting any stone, it is heightened here. The first two jewelers said they wouldn''t risk setting it, Nancy said she thinks if we can find the right jeweler, setting it is our best option. My mom, not an expert jeweler, but and expert person and customer in many regards, said, "You will find someone who says they can set it, I have been told no before, but you have to find the right person, don''t get worked up becuase a couple of people say they can''t set it."

I am going to read back again now and remind myself of what else needs to be addressed.

 

[Hannahsb21]

Well Perry,

I was friends with Tony, and approached him very kindly thankyou, primarliy because I was sure he would return it. The first thing I said to him was that I am not accusing you of knowing the chip was there but it is. Based on the two of us, he had far more options than myself in terms of resolving the issue. I spoke to Tony for several days about this before there was any heat at all. It seems to me that you are jumping to conclusions, nothing about my posts indicates that I am an aggressive or hasty person. And I didn''t say that he intentionally misrepresented the stone, but what he portrayed was inaccurate.

Secondly, I do undestand very well that there is no such thing as a perfect diamond, and never claimed this was. I do also understand that as a customer I discovered a flaw in my purchase and therefore want it returned. In addition, under a 60x microscope, Nancy saw no inclusions, just for the record and though in the future it will get scuffed, it needn''t have a chip missing before even being set.

Again, though the chip was first discovered by us under 60x, and though I didn''t see it with a loope, Nancy was able to see it with a 10x loope. So to some, at disgretion, it has been seen with a 10x loope. I am not crying wolf, and I am not a he.

 

[Christy42]

Thanks Dave and Fey, I wondered because I watched the setter set my princess and he used the 10X but I believe that''s it. You could tell he''d done that more than once. Definitely takes a pro.

Well, I think we''re kicking a dead horse. Turns out it can be set but it is a higher risk. I''m afraid to say anything else...Might have my facts wrong.

 

[hey joey]

lets help solve this problem fast.your diamond has a chip.take the diamond to a master cutter who specialty is cutting princess cut. try (new york or los angeles)ask him what is the lost weight. find out how much the cost to re cut.

take this as a small factor:

calculate what you paid ($7500 divide by the weight 1.34) = $5597 per carat
factor the loss is (.012 pts)
1.34 minus .012 = 1.22
multiply 1.22 by $5597 = $6828 total price

loss in price value $671.66
the diamond cutter will charge approx $150.00
cost of re- cert approx $100.00
paid 3 experts for apprasel/consultation $150.00
mental and emotional damage $700.00 (ideally, it shouldbe priceless)
i would ask him to repay for the loss in the amount of $1771.66

most important: a letter to show that he should have been more professional in understanding why his customer was frustrated and should have taken a quick action by offering a different stone to make her feel that you care to solve the problem.

no women should be depress. lets support this frustrating women to go on planning her wonderfull wedding and let her enjoy her new married life.

 

[perry]

Hannasb21:

I appologize about not understanding that you are probably a She (although to be accurate not being a "He" does technically leave open the possiblity that you are a Hermaphrodite).

I stand on my other statements.

Your reply indicates that you acknowadge that he may not have known the chip was there. At that point he has no fault whatsoever. PERIOD.

I do not understand your claim the he has more options to resolve this than you do. If the vendor has no fault why should they do anything?

Businesses are not required by any law to pay refunds for good merchandise just because the customer finds something that they do not like about the item. I admit that some do - but it is always at their option. You have presented nothing about the financials and the model that this business is using (and you probably have no kowledge about it as well - this is usually highly guarded information).

Fact: You purchased a diamond.

Fact: It appears to have been graded fairly (discovering chips at 60X has no legal bearing whatsoever). Likewise being 1 color grade off, and even 1 clarity grade off is common with the best of labs (I purchased 2 daimonds that were graded F VS1 by a well respected pricescope vendor. The appraiser graded them G VS2. This is not uncommon at all).

The fact that people can now see the defect at 10X after it was discoverd at 60X has no legal bearing on the grading of a diamond at 10X. PERIOD.

You have ZERO legall right to return a diamond, or take action, based on the facts of this case.

Your personal disappointment does not mean that a vendor has to take a diamond back.

If you buy a car, and then find out you don''t like it - you cannot take that back and get all of your money back. There are many other "big ticket" consumer goods that has the same rules. You buy it - you own it, and it''s resale value after you buy it drops considerably. Diamonds are in that catagory (unless the store has an upfront return policy - which you are paying for as part of the price).

Also, please inform anyone you are going to ask to polish or recut the diamond that you are looking for no chips or defects that can be found at 60X. Since that is your standard you need to tell whomever you will ask to do the rework. Otherwise, you are likely to get the same thing you have now - but with a chip or multiple chips in different places. Personally I don''t think there is a cutter out there who will agree to work to that standard - but you have the right to try.

You state that noting in your posting indicates that you are an aggressive or hasty person.

I disagree with that. I clearly remember the original title of this post (before Leonid changed it), and my observations are that you are largly throwing a temper tantrum in the attempt to find out a method so you can get your way - or to degrade the jeweler in question.

Other than that, you own a very nice diamond. You have chosen post purchase to apply a set of standards to the diamond that is not industry norm. And now you are disappointed.

You have 4 basic choices. Accept the diamond and move in in life. Trade it in as partial payment for another diamond, recut or polish it (but be sure to tell them your standard up front), or just sell it and do without a diamond.

This is just like many other things in life. We don''t always get what we want. I just discovered the real reason that a used van I purchased was being sold. My outside exposure on this is $3000 to resolve the problem. I am not happy about that, but it is my problem because I was not smart enough to figure out the problem up front. No one would claim that I have any real basis to go back on the owner or the garage I had check the van out prior to purchase; although some people would say that I was decieved. Sorry, life - and the law - does not work that way.

Whinning about it on the internet is not going to change your choices. So chose and move on. Hopefully you have learned a few things in the process.

I want to see The Vendor post their side of this story. Please ask the vendor in question to respond to this post and address the issues you raised in this post (are you mature enough to even ask them to do that - or do you want this only to be your side of the story so you get sympathy...).


Perry

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Date: 3/8/2005 2:39:38 AM
Author: hey joey
lets help solve this problem fast.your diamond has a chip.take the diamond to a master cutter who specialty is cutting princess cut. try (new york or los angeles)ask him what is the lost weight. find out how much the cost to re cut.

take this as a small factor:

calculate what you paid ($7500 divide by the weight 1.34) = $5597 per carat
factor the loss is (.012 pts)
1.34 minus .012 = 1.22
multiply 1.22 by $5597 = $6828 total price

loss in price value $671.66
the diamond cutter will charge approx $150.00
cost of re- cert approx $100.00
paid 3 experts for apprasel/consultation $150.00
mental and emotional damage $700.00 (ideally, it shouldbe priceless)
i would ask him to repay for the loss in the amount of $1771.66

most important: a letter to show that he should have been more professional in understanding why his customer was frustrated and should have taken a quick action by offering a different stone to make her feel that you care to solve the problem.

no women should be depress. lets support this frustrating women to go on planning her wonderfull wedding and let her enjoy her new married life.

Wanna check your maths on that?

do you mean a 0.12ct loss or a 0.012 loss? makes a difference.
1.34-0.12=1.22 = $6828.34 = 7500-6828.34 = 671.84
1.34-0.012=1.328 = $7432.82 = 7500-7432.82= $67.18

 

[deny]

Hannah, thanks for your op. There is a lot to learn from it. I have received a lot of useful information from this thread alone. Don''t let a few here discourage you, they seem to be just trying to aggravate the subject. Stay on course and you will get the results you wish for. Take all the sound advice that is offered here, and leave the other junk at the door. Good luck!

 

[sparklish]

Never posted, but lurking for a long time, though this sad tale has made me want to post for the first time. You should be wary of anyone giving legal advice on the 'Net.

That said, I have read the posts and some of them are valid, especially the guy talking about the UCC. You very well may have legal rights with regard to this. Many people have said that if you can't prove beyond all doubt that he knew about the crack, you don't have a right to get a refund. That's just plain wrong, and is not the law. If you have a jeweller refusing to set the stone, and you have more proof that it would be unsafe to set it, then basically you didn't get what you bought. The only way you are going to know whether you have a case is by seeing a real lawyer, and that should be your next step.

After spending $7500 on the diamond, a few hundred to a lawyer to explore your rights should be well worth it. Since your lawyer is unlikely to be a diamond expert, it would be great if you could post out this thread with these people's advice as well as any documents you have from your jeweller. Then your lawyer will be able to tell you whether this is worth pursuing.

If it's not, I would still file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau but be careful about using language like "dishonest" in a public place as that's not necessarily so (and may not need to be so for you to get your refund!). "Unhelpful and terrible customer service" would be more accurate! Good luck and so sorry to hear that this has marred this happy time!

Also, let us know what happens!

 

[Allisonfaye]

Hannah,
I have not seen any mention of whether or not you paid by this stone by credit card. I am hoping you did. I think you would have recourse through the credit card company if you can document all of your facts. I admittedly don''t know all about the legal ramifications and I am not the diamond expert many of these people are but I don''t blame you a bit for being upset and I understand why you would feel differently thinking you have purchased one thing and gotten another.
Good luck to you.

 

[sjz]

Hi Hannah,

I''ve been reading through the posts on this thread for the past few days (boy, there sure are a LOT of them). I feel very bad for your experience. I''ve ended up with "lemons" when making major purchases, as well. It totally stinks!

From what I''ve understood, you bought your diamond at a trade show, and not from this jeweler''s store or usual business? Was there any type of written contract, guarantee, or return/exchange policy that went along with this purchase? If so, what did it say in the fine print? I have never purchased jewelry in this manner, but I have purchased antiques and that sort of thing. Often, those types of purchases are non-refundable buy-at-your-own-risk types of transactions. I think a lot of your legal rights in this situation would hinge on the terms of purchase. A lot of merchandise that is sold in these types of venues is offered at a one time only price, special deal, or non-refundable sale. Vendors that sell at trade shows and so forth are often trying to move certain merchandise and are relying on impulse buyers who aren''t going to realize what they are buying, or conversely buyers who are very well educated and really know what they are buying right up front and aren''t going to feel "taken" after the fact. I''m not trying to imply that the guy who sold you this diamond knew that there was something wrong with it, but if he did...he was probably banking on the fact that the buyer would either figure that at the price, it was possibly not as "good" a deal as it seemed OR that the buyer would never find out that the stone had a flaw. It''s also very possible that the seller didn''t know of the flaw, maybe he never looked at the stone under anything higher than 10x magnification.

As others have pointed out,in light of the fact that the diamond was certified under 10x magnification, that''s the only standard you can hold he seller to with a guarantee.

As far as the issue of setting the stone...perhaps the setters who''ve declined are worried about liability for damage to the stone? Especially in light of the way you feel about the vendor who sold you the stone. Maybe they don''t want to be painted with the same brush if something were to go wrong in the setting of the stone, they may not want to be held liable in conjuctinon with the vendor. Do you get my point? Have you considered having the vendor who sold you the stone in the first place do the setting? Is that an option? If so, I would ask that he set the stone at no additional charge to you, as well as guarantee the stone against damage during the setting process. And be sure to get it all in WRITING so that you have something to fall back on if things go wrong. At least that''s the avenue I would pursue at this stage.

I am not in any way, shape or form an expert on diamonds, or the law. But I am an expert in shopping...lol. As a shopper, I''d say make sure you never make a transaction for a major purchase without having something to protect you IN WRITING, and always read the fine print. I hope you did in this case.

 

[sparklish]

Date: 3/8/2005 11:31:53 AM
You should be wary of anyone giving legal advice on the ''Net.

Hmmmmmm... That''s exactly what you just did.

No I didn''t. I told her that she should seek legal advice, I didn''t give any.

but be careful about using language like "dishonest" in a public place as that''s not necessarily so

I agree

"Unhelpful and terrible customer service" would be more accurate!

but be careful about using language like this in a public place that''s not neccessarily so... Wait a minute....

Yes, but the former would be a fact and the latter an opinion. You''re allowed to write your opinions in a public place.

 

[Sashabella]

Hannah - if you want to know your legal position, get a lawyer in your jurisdiction. That is all I am going to say because some things written on this thread are beginning to make my blood boil.

 

[Hannahsb21]

Hello

I want to agree with Cranky Dave about calling the guy a dishonest jeweler, in retrospect, that seems a bit harsh from the outside, though to me it is fitting. However, it is only fair to change the thread topic and I am happy to admit that. I also didn''t see it as causing legal trouble for myself as some have suggested, but I guess it could.

I don''t really feel that anyone here has said you have to do this or that. Lots of opinions on what I might be able to do and great opinions about how different jewelers would solve the situation, but few who have said indefinately one way or another.

In this thred I am definately not looking for sympathy, but to hopefully prevent this from happening to someone else and that is totally fair. I have definately thanked some kind readers for their support because it feels good, but it is clear that''s not my intention. I don''t think this forum really craddled or attacked me but multiple different methods of setting, diagnosis and customer service policies have been discussed. We are just asking questions and getting lots of awnsers. Even those who have said the guy isn''t responsible have said that without acusing me of anything and I have inturn not reacted to them in an aggressive manor.