Burmese ruby: healed fracture

[Sydneyphoenix]

As I wrote elsewhere I recently bought a ruby certified by GRS as Burmese heat-only, and GRS “pigeon blood” in colour. Very clean in visual and while it’s my first ruby so nothing to compare with, lovely colour. I organised for a local appraisal just to ensure the stone i received is the one studied in 2011 by GRS.

Other than rounding errors in dimensions, size and weight are consistent; the microscopy mentions fingerprint healed fracture. Now given the stone is GRS H(a), would one expect healed fracture from either natural ruby formation, heat treatment or at worst residual from incidental borax from treating other rubies (given this fingerprint is only found at 20-30x microscopy, so minuscule), OR should I be worried that there’s more to it than simple heating and the stones got switched in last 10 years? Sorry for double posting, just that no one seem to be posting in the other thread!!

 

[voce]

Gemstone Enhancement Disclosure - GRS

Understand the different terminology for gemstone treatments and enhancements found in our GRS Reports

www.gemresearch.ch

I don't think it's as nefarious as a swapped stone. I think you misunderstood what H(a) means. H(a) does not mean heat-only. It means the stone was heated with clarity enhancements. The (a) indicates that very little clarity filler was detected and would account for less than 0.01 ct in the weight. But was there use of filler material used to heal fractures? Yes.

 

[icy_jade]

OR should I be worried that there’s more to it than simple heating

H(a) means heated with minor residues (how GIA would describe it). Did you buy it thinking that it’s heated only?

From GRS:

Gemstone Enhancement Disclosure - GRS

Understand the different terminology for gemstone treatments and enhancements found in our GRS Reports

www.gemresearch.ch

H(a)

Enhanced by heat – residues insignificant (indication of very small residues within fissures only). Clarity and/or color are enhanced by heat. The applied type of enhancement for the ruby or sapphire under consideration is, according to the opinion of GRS GemResearch Swisslab, considered a permanent enhancement. Extremely small residues of glass-like materials present in cavities or as isolated, extremely small residues in fissures that affect the weight of the gemstone less than approximately 0.001 carat. ‘A-type treatment’ present in the ruby or sapphire under consideration are, according to the opinion of GRS GemResearch Swisslab, permanent enhancements. Enhancements such as ‘type A’ are considered permanent and will always be mentioned on the front page of the report.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

No I understand that, but thought the consensus was that H(a) indicated incidental tiny residual leftover from heating other stones rather than mixing flux consciously for heating this stone. Like H>=H(a)>>>H(b) rather than H>>>H(a)>>>H(b) in terms of value. Guess legit enough for most people except “absolutely no-treatment “ school…

 

[icy_jade]

thought the consensus was that H(a) indicated incidental tiny residual leftover from heating other stones rather than mixing flux consciously for heating this stone

Where did you get that from? I’ve always thought H(a) = GIA minor residues and H(b) = GIA moderate residues.

No matter what, H(a) is not the same as heat only.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Where did you get that from? I’ve always thought H(a) = GIA minor residues and H(b) = GIA moderate residues.

No matter what, H(a) is not the same as heat only.

Well, several discussions on these forums in the past…

Appraisal Burma Ruby

Hello, it’s a pleasure for me to be part of this community. If I’m posting this in the wrong section please feel free to delete it. Few months back I received a nice Burma Ruby as a form of payment for a work I did. Now I’m really considering to make a ring to give to my mom for Christmas. I’m...

www.pricescope.com

difference between H and H(a) in ruby treatment

Hi, I searched on the website and got to know the normal process of heating, while I noticed that there are few certificates which states H for burmese rubies, can I ask the difference between H and H(a)? cheers a lot.

www.pricescope.com

Help me do quick research on BURMESE RUBY please!

Hi all, I don''t really know anything about rubies but am looking up info as fast as possible. Can anyone help answer some questions? I came across a ruby ring that I think is very pretty but am not familiar with ruby grading: GRS: no. 9901042 date: Lucerne, 20th, January 1999 object: one...

www.pricescope.com

Yes, H is better than H(a) all other things equal, but was impression that H(a) is still acceptable to most as unintended consequence of heating/cutting process given such small residual <0.001ct.

Anyway still consistent with GRS brief hopefully?

 

[icy_jade]

Well, several discussions on these forums in the past…

Appraisal Burma Ruby

Hello, it’s a pleasure for me to be part of this community. If I’m posting this in the wrong section please feel free to delete it. Few months back I received a nice Burma Ruby as a form of payment for a work I did. Now I’m really considering to make a ring to give to my mom for Christmas. I’m...

www.pricescope.com

Post #27 only says the same as what I think

The others also state the same eg

Help me do quick research on BURMESE RUBY please!

Hi all, I don''t really know anything about rubies but am looking up info as fast as possible. Can anyone help answer some questions? I came across a ruby ring that I think is very pretty but am not familiar with ruby grading: GRS: no. 9901042 date: Lucerne, 20th, January 1999 object: one...

www.pricescope.com

Heated only is H.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Post #27 only says the same as what I think

The others also state the same eg

Help me do quick research on BURMESE RUBY please!

Hi all, I don''t really know anything about rubies but am looking up info as fast as possible. Can anyone help answer some questions? I came across a ruby ring that I think is very pretty but am not familiar with ruby grading: GRS: no. 9901042 date: Lucerne, 20th, January 1999 object: one...

www.pricescope.com

Heated only is H.

I don’t think we are actually disagreeing, I am fine as long as H(a) is considered acceptable to majority of collectors and won’t cause disasterous drop in value; of course some drop compared to H and certainly significant drop over no-treatment. Would you have kept it, @icy_jade ?

 

[icy_jade]

Ok I saw the vendor page that states the stone is just heated. Is that why you keep referring to it as heated only?

I mean if you are ok that it’s H(a) that’s fine. But H(a) is not just heated. There are many sellers that state H(a) to be just heated but that’s dishonest to me.

I’m a “purist”, so am not a good person to ask. I don’t typically buy treated rubies or sapphires. I mean maybe if the price is super good? I don’t know how much you paid for it. Was it comparable to this?

Ivy & Rose: Chicago Jeweler for Engagement Rings, Unique Fine Jewelry

Find engagement rings in every style, GIA certified diamonds, and unique vintage and modern fine jewelry. Browse our collection online or in our Chicago showroom.

ivyandrose.com

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Ok I saw the vendor page that states the stone is just heated. Is that why you keep referring to it as heated only?

I mean if you are ok that it’s H(a) that’s fine. But H(a) is not just heated. There are many sellers that state H(a) to be just heated but that’s dishonest to me.

I’m a “purist”, so am not a good person to ask. I don’t typically buy treated rubies or sapphires. I mean maybe if the price is super good? I don’t know how much you paid for it. Was it comparable to this?

Ivy & Rose: Chicago Jeweler for Engagement Rings, Unique Fine Jewelry

Find engagement rings in every style, GIA certified diamonds, and unique vintage and modern fine jewelry. Browse our collection online or in our Chicago showroom.

ivyandrose.com

Pricing and appraisal were both somewhat higher than that stone. Yeah I intend on getting a no-heat ruby at some stage but thought this will be a good start to the collection. It all comes down to what H(a) mean and how acceptable it is to each collector. I think I will keep the stone as there doesn’t seem to be concerns that the appraisal is not consistent with GRS certificate…

I know purists won’t touch it, yes I wouldn’t have got it if it was something like $5000+, and agree H(a) is the minimum any serious collector should tolerate, if not H or purist no-heat. At least no-heat Burmese rubies are easier to find than no-oil Colombian emeralds!!

 

[icy_jade]

Pricing and appraisal were both somewhat higher than that stone. Yeah I intend on getting a no-heat ruby at some stage but thought this will be a good start to the collection. It all comes down to what H(a) mean and how acceptable it is to each collector. I think I will keep the stone as there doesn’t seem to be concerns that the appraisal is not consistent with GRS certificate…

I know purists won’t touch it, yes I wouldn’t have got it if it was something like $5000+, and agree H(a) is the minimum any serious collector should tolerate, if not H or purist no-heat. At least no-heat Burmese rubies are easier to find than no-oil Colombian emeralds!!

Why not save the money for a no heat one then? Cos with setting costs it still adds up to quite a few k. Funds that can bring you closer to a no heat much sooner.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Why not save the money for a no heat one then? Cos with setting costs it still adds up to quite a few k. Funds that can bring you closer to a no heat much sooner.

Because I want two rubies anyway, one pendant and one ring, and I guess ring should have a better stone! Weird thinking process I admit!

 

[qubitasaurus]

No I understand that, but thought the consensus was that H(a) indicated incidental tiny residual leftover from heating other stones rather than mixing flux consciously for heating this stone. Like H>=H(a)>>>H(b) rather than H>>>H(a)>>>H(b) in terms of value. Guess legit enough for most people except “absolutely no-treatment “ school…

It's definitely H>>H(a)>>H(b). It could be for many different reasons, it could have just picked some up from being heated with something else that was treated at the same time. But it doesn't matter, the GIA cert says H(a) which means there are minor traces of residues from flux healing inside or on the surface of that stone -- anything else is irrelevant. From the perspective of anyone buying that is the full story (how it happened is relatively inconsequential).

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Why not save the money for a no heat one then? Cos with setting costs it still adds up to quite a few k. Funds that can bring you closer to a no heat much sooner.

I do wonder what kind of quality no-heat Burmese ruby one can get for U$10K, if something similar to mine in colour but no-treatment I will snap up.

 

[Ionysis]

I’d far rather have a no heat or even heat only ruby which was beautiful quality than have an average quality one from Burma - assuming equivalent pricing.

Where your ruby is from is completely irrelevant unless it is a top quality, investment grade stone.

It perplexes me hugely to see people excitedly showing off a completely average looking, even a clarity treated stone saying “wow look - it’s from BURMA!!!!” As if that somehow makes it better. It doesn’t.

If I was going to spend a few thousand dollars on a ruby I would prioritise;
1. Colour
2. Clarity (min eye clean, with no heat as a best preference, heat only at a push).
3. Cut (excluding any windowed stones or those which are really small face up for weight)

If you’re dropping $50k then by all means seek out Burmese origin on top of the three criteria above.

But Geographic origin of a moderately priced stone is of no consequence and shouldn’t impact value (or your decision to purchase) in any way.

 

[Bron357]

With Rubies, untreated unheated is the pinnacle. It means that the gem is as it appeared out of the ground.
Most rubies as found need “improvement” to increase their attractiveness. These improvements can be modest to highly invasive.
Heat or H means that moderate heat treatment was used, generally to improve transparency by reducing the rutile silk.
Heat (a) does mean minor residue.
When it comes to “fingerprint inclusions” these are natural repairs of a fracture while the crystal is forming or they can be “repaired” by man in a high heat environment.
The distinction between Heat (H) which is heat to remove silk vs higher Heat to artificially induce fracture repair (H (a)) which invariably includes a minute amount of residue vs Higher Heat with detectable additives (flux) to seal fissures and/ cavities (H (b)) vs High Heat with significant flux additives (that can also be coloured) to repair and seal fissures and cavities (H (c)) and H (d) where the ruby is more glass/ flux than corundum.
Because good colour, good clarity, preferred origin (Burma) and unheated are rare, this is what “collectors” chose to buy. Such rubies are in short supply and generally “old stock/ type” Burmese. Collectors tend to have lots of $$$$ to devote to their acquisitions.
Most rubies currently from Burma are from Mong Hsu. These rubies invariably have a blue tone core/ section and need heat to make them more attractive.
Origin alone doesn’t make for a quality gemstone, the gem needs to be true to type to be worth the money.
If you are buying a ruby you are usually buying it to set in jewellery and enjoy.
Because of the huge price difference (and rarity factor) between untreated and highly treated it’s important to know what you are buying because to the naked eye it’s virtually impossible to tell one from the other.
Thats why you need a lab report to ensure the price you pay is commensurate with the quality and level of treatment.

 

[Bron357]

In Australia Mays in Victoria has a few Burmese rubies. Mays is well regarded and reputable, they also sell a lot of Jade. Not sure on prices, I think you have to contact them.
I had a look on the International Gem Society and they are quoting $20,000 to $35,000 (US) for top colour unheated Burmese in the 1.00 to 1.99 carat range. It drops quite a bit for the next colour grade down - $7,500 to $20,000 a carat.
Colour can be subjective, everyone talks about pigeon blood red but personally I think vivid red is nicer.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

In Australia Mays in Victoria has a few Burmese rubies. Mays is well regarded and reputable, they also sell a lot of Jade. Not sure on prices, I think you have to contact them.
I had a look on the International Gem Society and they are quoting $20,000 to $35,000 (US) for top colour unheated Burmese in the 1.00 to 1.99 carat range. It drops quite a bit for the next colour grade down - $7,500 to $20,000 a carat.
Colour can be subjective, everyone talks about pigeon blood red but personally I think vivid red is nicer.

I asked May’s-that’s where I got my jade cabochon-and for interestingly, the unheated rubies are overpriced compared to other vendors whereas everything else in their inventory are reasonably priced. I thought vivid red and pigeon-blood red are quite similar…obviously mine are okay/good in colour at best, apart from H(a) status.

With Rubies, untreated unheated is the pinnacle. It means that the gem is as it appeared out of the ground.
Most rubies as found need “improvement” to increase their attractiveness. These improvements can be modest to highly invasive.
Heat or H means that moderate heat treatment was used, generally to improve transparency by reducing the rutile silk.
Heat (a) does mean minor residue.
When it comes to “fingerprint inclusions” these are natural repairs of a fracture while the crystal is forming or they can be “repaired” by man in a high heat environment.
The distinction between Heat (H) which is heat to remove silk vs higher Heat to artificially induce fracture repair (H (a)) which invariably includes a minute amount of residue vs Higher Heat with detectable additives (flux) to seal fissures and/ cavities (H (b)) vs High Heat with significant flux additives (that can also be coloured) to repair and seal fissures and cavities (H (c)) and H (d) where the ruby is more glass/ flux than corundum.
Because good colour, good clarity, preferred origin (Burma) and unheated are rare, this is what “collectors” chose to buy. Such rubies are in short supply and generally “old stock/ type” Burmese. Collectors tend to have lots of $$$$ to devote to their acquisitions.
Most rubies currently from Burma are from Mong Hsu. These rubies invariably have a blue tone core/ section and need heat to make them more attractive.
Origin alone doesn’t make for a quality gemstone, the gem needs to be true to type to be worth the money.
If you are buying a ruby you are usually buying it to set in jewellery and enjoy.
Because of the huge price difference (and rarity factor) between untreated and highly treated it’s important to know what you are buying because to the naked eye it’s virtually impossible to tell one from the other.
Thats why you need a lab report to ensure the price you pay is commensurate with the quality and level of treatment.

That’s the impression I had when I bought: while a completely different league from no-heat, comparable albeit at a substantial disadvantage against H stone, accepting residues on H(a) as trivial consequence of heating process. I would draw the line at H(a) as the minimum, but understands some will draw the line at H.

Well, will have to make a call to keep it or not soon, 10-day window expires on Thursday. Was planning on keeping, considering the price of $3200 USD…or return you say? Options include waiting til expected 25% sale in the future to get something like these; this is apart from long term plan to spend >$10K to get a high-quality no-heat ruby.

Loose Ruby - Oval 1.03 Ct. - #R10089 | The Natural Ruby Company

One beautiful transparent 1.03 carat oval shape red ruby with dimensions of 7.15 x 5.14 x 3.09 mm. It has a mixed brilliant cut, and a clarity grade of slightly included (evaluated at eye level), vivid color intensity, and an excellent polish. The origin of this ruby is Mozambique.

thenaturalrubycompany.com

Loose Ruby - Oval 1.15 Ct. - #R11650 | The Natural Ruby Company

One beautiful transparent 1.15 carat oval shape red ruby with dimensions of 6.85 x 5.72 x 3.48 mm. It has a mixed brilliant cut, and a clarity grade of very slightly included (evaluated at eye level), vivid color intensity, and an excellent polish. The origin of this ruby is Burma (Myanmar).

thenaturalrubycompany.com

 

[demantoidz]

I thought it might be helpful/interesting to share 2 price points Ive saved for quality 1+ct unheated burma ruby - these are higher end sellers. Consistent with Bron's pricing suggestion.

For me, along with other factors brought up here, strong fluorescence (common but not exclusive in Burmese ruby) is a thing I'd look for if I was not looking at Burma origin, but wanted a Burma-look. Mozambique rubies with strong fluorescence exist but I do not know much about them.

The one in the second image was 1.45ct 35k total (I think the seller was Jogani)
First one has details in the image.

 

[Bron357]

Do you love it ?
What is most important to you?
Appearance or the stats?
I can’t say if $3,200 US is a good price or not for a H (a) but if you really want an unheated Burmese, then a H (a) isn’t going to be quite right. Nevertheless it’s a lovely ruby and properly certified (mine aren’t as yet) so if you decide to resell later on it shouldnt be too difficult.
And as @demantoidz said, Enhoerning Jewelery has / had had some beautiful unheated Burmese rubies.
They are expensive though.
This is the fluorescence that is desired.

 

[voce]

I do wonder what kind of quality no-heat Burmese ruby one can get for U$10K, if something similar to mine in colour but no-treatment I will snap up.

Tiny ones for US $10K. I'm assuming you want 1 ct or above in size. If so, US $10K will get you a cabochon.

Why the insistence on Burmese origin? I'm seeing more and more MEH stones from Burma these days than stones making me go wow. I'd far rather get a quality stone from another origin. Yes, exceptional stones from other origins can match the Burmese fluorescence.

 

[VividRed]

10k for top unheated burmese quality is Almost impossible above one carat, unless you are a wholesale dealer.

I have a few 1ct rubies in that price range and I would say they are very good to fine quality, definitely not extra fine though. I think Extra fine (like 9.5/10 - there are no tens in rubies) will run at 25k+ per carat in the 1.00-1.99 range and 50k+ in the 2.00-2.99 range. Depending on the continent you’re in, and these are retail prices, of course

 

[Ionysis]

Honestly rubies are insanely priced these days. Even the sellers I usually buy from at source are charging massive prices. Make me sad.

 

[VividRed]

Honestly rubies are insanely priced these days. Even the sellers I usually buy from at source are charging massive prices. Make me sad.

Are you happy with the ruby from AJS? It’s definitely a nice color from the pictures you posted, the question is whether it holds up in most lighting conditions, which can be tricky for vivid red rubies unless they have a little silk and/or strong fluorescence to create that inner glow that top rubies have. That’s really the what the unheated Burma premium boils down to, and it does not happen in all stones from that region, far from it.

Also, Mozambique rubies - which tend to be cheaper - often have a pure red hue with vivid saturation but the lack of fluorescence and silk make them less appealing in non optimal lighting conditions because they can lack the magic glow.

There are no bargains with rubies, you can “enter the market” with a few thousands but of you thirst for perfection you will need extremely deep pockets - sigh

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

@VividRed @Bron357 @demantoidz @voce Taking the prices and certifications aside, yes I love it. Colour while not the very top is still mesmerising to me, that photo is the best among five or six I took but do look better in real eye IMO, granted no fluorescence. Love it more than I do for the jade cabochon, which I am prepared to sell at a small loss if there’s an offer, given what I found it that price range since. But no way I’m letting this go at a loss once I keep it.

While I might get a better ruby at a later date, that’s possibly years away and this won’t look shabby in most occasions, it’s H(a) which is acceptable to majority of average collectors. Does it sound good enough a reason to keep?

 

[icy_jade]

IMO, granted no fluorescence

A Burmese ruby with no fluorescence? If so, return it. To me strong fluorescence is a must for a Burmese ruby. Else it’s like missing the point entirely.

End of the day, if it makes your heart flutter, keep it. If not (and usually if people ask if they should keep I get the sense they r convincing themselves), then no.

My 2 cents

 

[Bron357]

Are you sure it has no fluorescence?
That the whole point about Burmese rubies, they have excellent glow.
I agree with @icy_jade , if you are questioning whether or not to keep it, you probably should return it.
I know it can be tricky “if I send this one back what if I then can’t find another even like this one?
Supply seems to be an issue, there aren’t heaps of Burmese rubies out there for sale. So that might lean you towards keeping it for now. You can always sell it once you have found the perfect one.

 

[demantoidz]

@VividRed @Bron357 @demantoidz @voce Love it more than I do for the jade cabochon, which I am prepared to sell at a small loss if there’s an offer, given what I found it that price range since. But no way I’m letting this go at a loss once I keep it.

Are you asking about resale value/potential?
I am not the right person to ask, just trying to understand your concern, taking the prices and certifications aside as you mentioned.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

@icy_jade @Bron357 @demantoidz
Lol, I suppose I opened a giant can of worms. No, I can't really say it doesn't have fluorescence, just that it doesn't have strong glowy fluorescence like exceptional Mogok rubies, granted all the photos I took thus far have been indoors.

The local appraisals mention red fluorescence on UV, bright on long-wave, dull on short-wave, so I guess they found some fluorescence, question is exactly how intense. Taking it outside to direct sunlight just now, it certainly becomes brighter, intense red with tinge of pink, whereas in evening it becomes deeper red. Too scared to take a photo for the fear of dropping it and never finding it again (should make a setting at some point...), but there it is. If that's the kind of fluorescence you would expect in a heated Burmese ruby, that's good enough for me.

The default view have been to keep it, I just opened things up for discussions to find out if there's hard solid reasons to return it. If consistent with H(a) residual and perhaps weak fluorescence, maybe good enough for money...?

 

[demantoidz]

@icy_jade @Bron357 @demantoidz
Lol, I suppose I opened a giant can of worms. No, I can't really say it doesn't have fluorescence, just that it doesn't have strong glowy fluorescence like exceptional Mogok rubies, granted all the photos I took thus far have been indoors.

The local appraisals mention red fluorescence on UV, bright on long-wave, dull on short-wave, so I guess they found some fluorescence, question is exactly how intense. Taking it outside to direct sunlight just now, it certainly becomes brighter, intense red with tinge of pink, whereas in evening it becomes deeper red. Too scared to take a photo for the fear of dropping it and never finding it again (should make a setting at some point...), but there it is. If that's the kind of fluorescence you would expect in a heated Burmese ruby, that's good enough for me.

The default view have been to keep it, I just opened things up for discussions to find out if there's hard solid reasons to return it. If consistent with H(a) residual and perhaps weak fluorescence, maybe good enough for money...?

So, you love the stone, but want to know if its a fair price considering the various parameters of the stone which have been discussed? Again, trying to understand the crux of your concerns so more experienced posters can answer, since I do not know.