BGD recut analysis.... what would you do?!

[Andelain]

If it were mine I'd recut it. I have a stone there right now myself. It's analysis looks a lot like that one, and I'm getting it recut too.

 

[kemurphy]

What does her current setting look like? If she is worried about loosing some of the spread could she halo the stone?

That is a great question! We just heard back that it would not be possible to put it back in the old setting if we recut it... which does make her a bit sad. They have offered to remake a setting that looks the same and use her side diamonds. Or we can use this opportunity for her to design a new setting. I'll talk with her as soon as she gets back from lunch.

This is what her setting looks like .

 

[solgen]

I'd take her to a store that has 1.5ct cut in a similar fashion to how hers will end. Then she can see the visual differences and whether she wants to go ahead with the recut. It's going to lose some considerable size so is that her main concern with the recut? If it's for other reasons, particularly sentimental then I'd probably keep it as is.

 

[sonnyjane]

What does her current setting look like? If she is worried about loosing some of the spread could she halo the stone?

That is a great question! We just heard back that it would not be possible to put it back in the old setting if we recut it... which does make her a bit sad. They have offered to remake a setting that looks the same and use her side diamonds. Or we can use this opportunity for her to design a new setting. I'll talk with her as soon as she gets back from lunch.

This is what her setting looks like .

Is that a photo of her actual ring? If so I have to say I'm surprised, it doesn't look nearly as "bad" (I don't really want to say that word) as I would have expected from the loose images you posted earlier.

 

[WinkHPD]

Before I made a final decision, I would go to the closest retailer of fine cuts and ask to see a fine cut diamond of the approximate size of the finished recut diamond. Color and clarity will be of little importance for the viewing, it is the sparkle you want to see.

Being a nice person, I would not ask them to bring something in for me since I know I am not buying.

When your mom sees what a well cut diamond looks like, it will be easy for her to say, "NO, that's too small" or" WOW!, I want one of those!"

That is what I would do...

Wink

 

[AdaBeta27]

Since a new setting will be required anyhow, another option is skip the recut and reset it as-is in something glittery like a halo. That might provide fire and glitter, if that stone is mostly brilliance and/or a bit bland.

 

[diagem]

What does her current setting look like? If she is worried about loosing some of the spread could she halo the stone?

That is a great question! We just heard back that it would not be possible to put it back in the old setting if we recut it... which does make her a bit sad. They have offered to remake a setting that looks the same and use her side diamonds. Or we can use this opportunity for her to design a new setting. I'll talk with her as soon as she gets back from lunch.

This is what her setting looks like .

Definitely looks like a sparkler, not sure I would go with a recut if it's been on her finger for so long, based on the Aset and this picture you just posted it looks like a happy Diamond even though it's has its faults..., and who doesn't?

 

[rainydaze]

I would do it, no question!

For me, the value of a diamond lies in the delight it brings my eyes, which comes first and foremost from its performance. It sounds like your mom has a keen eye and aesthetic, and this diamond is not bringing her the joy that it could. Since something could be done to rectify that, I'd be all over it!

 

[FancyDiamond]

I would not recut.

It looks like alot of "shaving" is to be done on the table to give a steeper crown angle. That's too much carat weight and spread loss. The diamond has some leakage under the table, and there are some less bright areas around the edge. Nonetheless, the diamond still gives very good bright light return with amazing spread. That's just how it behaves.

I second this opinion. That is, if this were my Diamond, I would NOT have it recut.

Before I tell why, I want to provide some relevant background. I had my 1.2 ct F color VVS2 GIA graded Diamond recut by Brian. Although my Diamond is not worth as much as yours due to your near 2-ct size, my Diamond's color and clarity make it worth something. Thus, losing weight means losing more money for more precious diamonds that are large or high in color/clarity. We need to take this loss in value into account in addition to recut cost.

Before the recut, my Diamond's cut was better than yours in that it had lot more reds in ASET and IS. Any bits of leakage were on the perimeter. The only problem was an extremely thin girdle. Coupled with a shallow crown, there was a small durability issue. If used as a pendant and put in a bezel setting, the Diamond would be safe. With its brightness and size, a pendant would be ideal. I had the recut Diamond, because I did not know as much about cut as now. I was hoping for more "personality", which I later learn to be found in diamonds with high crowns (rainbow colors effect). Knowing what I know now, I would not have mine recut, but instead mounted the Diamond in a solitaire, bezel setting, so I could have a large and bright solitaire pendant.

Now, back to your situation.
1. I find the loss in Both carat weight (as much as 0.4 ct) AND face-up diameter (as much as 0.50mm diameter or 14% in reduced face-up area) are significant, ESPECIALLY for a large size Diamond like yours. These losses translate to a significant dollar value loss .
2. Your Diamond started out as a shallow cut Diamond. I see that from Brian's target cut parameters, Brian has to set the target cut parameters conservatively with the crown angle on the shallow end of the ideal range, with the intent of limiting size loss. With this still shallow crown, you will not see as much rainbow colors as you wish. What you gain is only more brightness.

If this were my Diamond, I would use it as a pendant. Its large size and relatively bright appearance will be great. If I must set the Diamond in a ring, then I would have it recut, since rings are less forgiving and require higher quality cut.

I have seen recut results from others here. Do not remember a recut Diamond like yours. In their cases, either they were originally very poorly cut or much smaller or suffer less loss in carat weight and/or face-up area. Their cases were more easily justified.

PS - I respect Brain and I think he is a master cutter who knows best for your diamonds. If you decide to have recut done, he is the one to do it. One advice is to skip the recertification (and extra shipping) if you do not intend to ever sell your recut Diamond. You already have the other parameters certified previously (assume GIA). Brian's new photos on the recut diamonds should be sufficient to describe and quantify the cut aspect.

 

[FancyDiamond]

That is a great question! We just heard back that it would not be possible to put it back in the old setting if we recut it... which does make her a bit sad. They have offered to remake a setting that looks the same and use her side diamonds. Or we can use this opportunity for her to design a new setting. I'll talk with her as soon as she gets back from lunch.

This is what her setting looks like .

That is a beautiful ring setting. I would put a color stone or another top cut Diamond of same size in the setting or sell the setting.
Not too keen about making another setting with existing melees and much smaller, recut Diamond. The proportion may not look right.

 

[sarahb]

This is a tough decision, & this is a crowd of cut loves, so I can totally understand the consensus building toward a recut. I have to disclaim, I also had my diamond recut as well. Here's the thread, it turned out beautiful.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/wf-re-cut.198734/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/wf-re-cut.198734/[/URL]

Then I read FancyDiamonds post. Great input & suggestion from a totally different vantage point. I didn't even think about the circumstances she brought up! I'd have to agree a pendant is another option, & hopefully a better cut diamond is something she can do for her setting? But really, whatever she decides, I hope will make her happy. Lots of great suggestions here.

 

[MissGotRocks]

In all honesty after having seen the entire ring in the pictures, the stone doesn't look nearly as bad as I had imagined. Maybe it's the stone in the setting but it looks like a really pretty ring. I'm surprised that she has doubted it for all these years - it looks very lively! Are there worse shots of the ring to be seen? Otherwise, I might change my initial opinion on recut - particularly because she will no longer be able to use this setting.

 

[kemurphy]

So I just spoke with her and her thoughts are as follows: She is not overly sentimental about either the diamond or the setting (actually doesn't love the setting it turns out!). She was 90% excited about re-cutting it until she found out that it won't be able to be put back in the old setting. Not because she loves the setting, but because of the hassle of finding a new one. The thought of picking out (either estate or having it made) a new setting made her a bit overwhelmed. Using her current diamond as a pendent and then getting a new one isn't really an option as it is hard enough to convince my dad to do even this. He would not want buy her a new 2ct diamond.

If anyone knows of a beautiful antique or antique style setting that is platinum and holds a 7.5mm stone just let me know! She likes filigree and pave, something similar to my own engagement ring actually!

She would want to keep the old setting and put a colored stone in it if we went ahead with the recut.

As for needing the AGS report at the end, she would actually need that as I am ashamed to say that the same seller also appraised the diamond and as I said, she is a diamond novice so she did not get a good appraisal! She was told its E or F, VS1, over 2 cts and mine cut.... so who knows what it actually is as two of those that we can confirm (cut and now size) are completely wrong!

She is going to take some time and think about this. And she very much enjoyed reading everyone's opinions! So thank you!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I love the ring and the diamond!. It looks really beautiful! I vote keep as is. BTW, great photography--very professional!

Hence, save the money on the recut + reset--for a new WF or BGD 5 or 7 stone wedding band (yanno with their signature cuts). Sparkle bomb. OR a smallish diamond that has "super ideal" parameters. If it is a single diamond, she can wear both rings at the same time...one on each hand; if it is a wedding band, with or without her present ring.

If she wants sparkle-- and who doesn't--one doesn't need "big" just an exceptional cut.

JMHO.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Jambalaya]

My two cents - another vote for a re-cut here. Brian is an amazing cutter and I would just love to have a 1.5 ctw cut by him. I think the re-cut diamond will sparkle like a disco ball. I second the opinion that it's a good idea for your mom to see super-ideal-cut diamonds in person. If you have a Hearts on Fire stockist near you, try to see some of theirs. That's the closest to Brian Gavin that I can think of.

I think it should be re-cut and then placed in a high-quality halo, preferably one of Brian's or Whiteflash's with the Signature melee (Brian) or the ACA melee (Whiteflash.) The halo will really plump up the diamond. She will then have a ring whose brilliant sparkle will never get old, since all the diamonds including the halo will be super-ideal-cut.

Just my opinion!

 

[Gypsy]

I would send the stone to GOG and see if Yoram would be willing to recut the stone into a transitional style stone with excellent light return with minimal spread loss.

I wouldn't try to force a square peg into a round hole for a loss of 40 points and .5mm of spread loss. I'd find a cutter that would work with the proportions it has and the faceting it is closest too (transitional IMO) and just get it to the best of it's potential with as little lost as possible.

Or you can ask Brian if he can do that for you. He might be able to.

But I wouldn't go for a Hearts and Arrows MRB Ags0. You'll lose too much.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I would go for a recut!

 

[chrono]

Gypsy's idea is a very good one. If there is improved sparkle and less ct weight loss by going with a better old cut design, that would be my preferred choice (over a modern H&A cut).

 

[yssie]

I would absolutely get it recut into something she can be proud to show off!!

But... I have a slightly different suggestion. BGD's recut is into an MRB. There are tons of other shapes - some may be more forgiving of the flatter, spreadier original dimensions than an ideal MRB requires. Yoram F. has done amazing work - I had the pleasure of seeing a pear he cut with... I want to say depth under 40? It sparkled like mad despite the unorthodox proportions. OECs can often be shallower than MRBs and shine. I would recommend reaching out to both Ari at SingleStone and GOG to see if there may be other options for your mum's treasure that would preserve more weight

 

[yssie]

LOL. I responded before reading other posts and Gypsy already said everything I was thinking

 

[lambskin]

With the loss in dimension, will she need a new setting?

 

[JDDN]

If it were my diamond, I would recut it in a heartbeat. I do like Gypsy and Yssie's idea of looking into a different kind of cut, but maybe she doesn't want to veer too far from what this original diamond is? Tough call, I think the main thing is that she be happy and excited and proud to wear it. If she feels all that now, then no need to recut. If she doesn't then a recut is a great option.

 

[ringo865]

I like the idea of seeing whether Brian (or yoram or gog) could perfect the transitional-ness of the stone as opposed to recutting it into a modern rb. Ooh, I like that idea best.

 

[UrsTx]

If your mom is okay with it, I vote recut. BGD recut mine (2.23 reduced to 2.04ct, 8.06 to 8.04, Good-Very Good cut to Excellent cut - I didn't get Ideal because a feather was in the way). A coworker wanted to buy it afterward so I sold it and I get to "visit" it often. It's 110% sparklier and the recut was worth the money. And yes, it will most likely look bigger due to the better cut and increased sparkliness - that's a new word... Also note the recut and certification took 3 months when they estimated 6-8 wks. The wait was agonizing!

My post. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/bgd-recut-stats-and-pics-are-in.214423/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/bgd-recut-stats-and-pics-are-in.214423/[/URL]

 

[LLJsmom]

I would recut. I would be upset to look at a BIG ugly stone. It's almost worse that it's big. I wouldn't even wear it if it was not sparkly. That is me though. Good luck to your mom!

 

[Roman Serov]

My mom has a beautiful wedding ring that while she has always loved, she has always felt that it didn't sparkle as much as other peoples diamonds. I knew it wasn't a great cut.... but I didn't know just how bad it was! Due to having hand surgery she has been unable to wear it for the past few weeks so I thought it would be a great opportunity to get it recut.

We just got the analysis back from BGD and sure enough, its a bad cut but it will loose a lot of weight if we were to go ahead and get it done. It has a starting weight 1.926 ct and projected finished weight of 1.519 ct. It currently has a diameter of 7.9-8.12 and I think it will go down to 7.5

I would love to hear peoples opinions on what we should do! It's hard for me to decide as it's my moms ring!

What is a little concerning here is a big loss in diameter after recut. Usually yield for round diamond recut is more than 90%, but for that diamond it is about 79%. The minimal diameter before is 7.9 mm and just 7.5 mm after.
So the resulting diamond will be not only smaller in weight, but also smaller in visual appearance.

Kemurphy, can you share the initial diamond model?
I want to check it to find why weight loss is so big here.

 

[rubybeth]

I also like the idea of seeing if it can be recut to a different cut besides a modern round brilliant. Just wanted to add a setting idea, if she loves filigree and pave, something like the Acacia from CvB/LAD: http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/the-acacia-solitaire-cvb-muse-collection/ It could be really fun to shop for a new setting!

 

[missy]

I would recut. I would be upset to look at a BIG ugly stone. It's almost worse that it's big. I wouldn't even wear it if it was not sparkly. That is me though. Good luck to your mom!

I agree. Recutting would make it a beautiful stone. Good luck with the decision and good luck with the recut if you go ahead with it.

 

[queradas]

Sorry but this is not a good candidate for a recut you will lose a LOT of value, in the thousands, and that is on top of the cost to recut.
If you had a grading report or a decent estimate of color/clarity I could even estimate how much value you would lose. The loss is so great, if you must change, you might be better off consigning it to GOG or another vendor and using the proceeds to purchase another stone.

Better candidates have moderate or steep crowns and steeper pavilions which can be recut without much loss of weight or diameter, mostly pavilion recuts with a slight touch to the crown, this is not the case here.

I am sure it is still a beautiful diamond, remember you are getting opinions from very cut centric niche consumers so the "group think" here is going to be highly biased towards ideal light performance as opposed to being value conscious.

If you are going to get a new setting you should decide on a budget and for best results have it custom made to the precise dimensions of the stone.

 

[partgypsy]

This is a tough one. Personally for me I would cut it because a) the cost to cut is less than buying a new more ideally cut diamond of the new size and b) I am not concerned about the loss in size (quality over quantity baby!). But then I saw it in the setting, and thought the setting was so beautiful and it would be shame she couldn't use the original setting, as well as increasing the cost of the entire change.
Then I read she is not set on the setting.

I would do what your mother is most excited about. You are not doing this for resale value, but to end up with a diamond and ring that your mother loves to wears. Despite the loss, recutting the diamond may be the most cost-effective way to do so. I have seen antique style settings at James Allen that are reasonable in cost. IDJ and David Klass is also mentioned a lot.

I do think it would be good for her to see diamonds in the size it will be recut to, to see her reaction. That will give her more information to make a decision.

The 2nd idea, if she realizes she doesn't want to go through with it, is to see if your father would like to get her an anniversary band with ideal cut diamonds (if that is something your mother would like).