Band help

[mrssalvo]

ID, that's a great idea

definitely check and see if they will send it to an appraiser. the appraiser can send it DCD and DCD can send it back to the appraiser once it's done and the appraiser can ship it to you. I was going to do something similar when I thought I was going to have Leon make my new setting. you will still have some extra shipping costs but not nearly what you would have to pay going in and out of the US.

 

[allycat0303]

I never thought that what should be a happy purchase would end up as such a disaster. I think the situation will eventually work itself out (my boyfriend is doing everything possible) but at the end of the day, I''m on the verge of tears, and my boyfriend is really upset so that definitely puts a damper on things. I think I should just forget about it for tonight, and think about something else. Sorry if I''m emotional, but hearing my boyfriend on the phone, and hearing his frustration, is making me really unhappy. Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 6/21/2005 6:08:52 PM
Author: crankydave

Date: 6/21/2005 6:00:42 PM

Author: mrssalvo

ID, that''s a great idea

definitely check and see if they will send it to an appraiser. the appraiser can send it DCD and DCD can send it back to the appraiser once it''s done and the appraiser can ship it to you. I was going to do something similar when I thought I was going to have Leon make my new setting. you will still have some extra shipping costs but not nearly what you would have to pay going in and out of the US.

Although a workable idea, why is the consumer caught in the middle of this? WF or DCD should have already been trying to make arrangements for facilitating their potential customer and not what Alleycat0303 is describing.


Dave

good point Dave.
Ally did WF or DCD give a reason they wouldn''t ship to the other one directly? I guess I never even thought it would be a problem which is why I suggested it.

 

[FireGoddess]

Exactly why won''t they send the stone or setting to each other? I haven''t heard a good reason, other than ''not wanting to''...which seems ridiculous given the circumstances.

If there is really not a good legal reason, I''d be inclined not to give my business to EITHER of them. I don''t think you should have to pay import taxes TWICE for this transaction....or reward either of the companies with the entire job for sake of not being accomodating to you.

So.....what is the reason they won''t send the stone or setting to each other directly?

 

[JohnQuixote]

Ally, I am sorry to hear of the frustration you're experiencing.

Brian Gavin got off the phone with your boyfriend a while ago. Our shipping policies provide for sending such goods only to the purchaser (picked up at a Fed Ex holding station with photo ID) or an approved appraiser. Brian also reiterated that we do not make bands <2mm for reasons of quality control.

Ally, these practices are not recent, nor are they exclusive to you. They have been in place for years, and insure our quality/warranty assurances and security in purchasing. We truly want to help you, but your happiness is most important of all - so if our design/delivery practices are outside of your envelope we need to consider that.

I wish you and I (or you and Renee) had spoken directly. I believe part of the frustration is that the obstacles relating to your circumstances have stretched out over time. Your boyfriend is chivalrous to handle matters but when he speaks to someone at WF, gets info, comes back to you with it and reports - you don't have the ability to interact live with the source about it. It might not change the policy, but I wish we could have dialogued or just been able to speak directly about it.

I gave you my direct line in one of the PMs I've sent (you received them I hope?). Regardless of what you decide to do - even if you just want to vent - please feel free to call.

 

[allycat0303]

I've been thinking about this whole thing, and trying to understand why I'm upset, and I've got it down

a) Originally I 100% wanted my setting and diamond purchased from the same company that was the main reason I went to Whiteflash because I believed they could provide me with the custom setting and diamond.

b) Although it would seem that this all stems from the fact that I want a 1.8 mm band that is NOT the only problem. When I first inquired about the width of the band from Whiteflash, I got the following answer 2.7mm -2.5mm. The 2.5 mm was what I was working with. Then Ïcekid mentioned that hers would be 2mm, and John confirmed it. SO for the SAME question I got the following answers 2.7mm, 2.5mm, 2mm. Now all of these are above what I wanted, but I was assured there is no visual difference between 1.8 and 2mm, so I would have gone with Whiteflash.

BUT, if you get 3 different answers to the SAME question, are you going to be inclined to believe that the custom job is going to magically be what you wanted? I think the chances of that are unlikely. I understand the policy of not making under 2mm band, but until my boyfriend talked to Brian tonight, we were unsure that it was even going to be 2mm! Last week I sent an email to ask for specifics on the band width etc, and it was not answered I gave them the benefit of the doubt that the email had never been recieved. I decided that although the Dirtcheapdiamonds setting was more expensive (but premium cut diamonds, instead of ideal, and lower carat weight), Jim was emphatic about about the dimensions of halo/band etc. and answered all of my questions so I knew exactly what I was getting. So it's not just the visual difference between 1.8 and 2mm, or policy, it's the distinct lack of clarity in the information! I don't have a problem with policy on shipping, band widths etc. my boyfriend is a little less tolerent about these things but that I understand that companies (like universities) can do what they please.

c) That being said, Whiteflash has been exceptional about helping me decide on a diamond. I got the specs, and info, and they held the diamond for me without any problem. So I do want to buy the diamond from them, my boyfriend also picked it out, so we've become attached to it. I think of it as "mine".

d) As for why DCD won't send the setting, I think Jim feels that it shouldn't be a problem for Whiteflash to send send the stone to him. He had nothing but good things to say about Whiteflash when I called him and I think was disappointed that they wouldn't ship it to him. That being said, he felt terrible that I was upset and asked me to send the specs of the stone from Whiteflash, and he would do everything in his power to find a stone that matched the specs and price of the one we picked out.

Although at this point, I don't know what to do. Give up the emotional attachment to the stone or go with it?

John: I'm avoiding calling you because I had been trying to let my boyfriend be even a little bit involved in the process. He's never in 10 years together even attempted to buy me anything remotely asthetic. No clothes, no jewelery etc. If I sound angry, I'm not, I feel that you've been very helpful in this process and are the ONLY reason I'm still considering the stone.

Feydakin: Thanks so much for your kind PM, I feel like you understand my feelings about this.

Firegoddess, Mrsalvo: You've kept me sane through this whol process. I'm thinking maybe an engagement pendent would be less of a hassle.

Sorry for the monstrous post, but I wanted to make sure that all issues (and my concerns) were clear.

 

[pyramid]

From what I have read, in my opinion, it is Dirt Cheap Diamonds who should be more lenient. The diamond is worth a lot more money than a setting so I could see Whiteflash being reluctant to send it and in any case it does not meet with their policies to do so. I notice that Dirt Cheap was soon offering to find you another diamond. Could he not speak to Whiteflash on the phone and arrange for the mount to be sent to them as they cannot change their shipping/security policy. Why would he not send it to your appraiser, note Whiteflash were willing to do this.

In my opinion the diamond is more important than the setting so I would still buy from Whiteflash and get the setting from them too.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 6/21/2005 6:08:52 PM
Author: crankydave

Date: 6/21/2005 6:00:42 PM
Author: mrssalvo
ID, that''s a great idea

definitely check and see if they will send it to an appraiser. the appraiser can send it DCD and DCD can send it back to the appraiser once it''s done and the appraiser can ship it to you. I was going to do something similar when I thought I was going to have Leon make my new setting. you will still have some extra shipping costs but not nearly what you would have to pay going in and out of the US.

Although a workable idea, why is the consumer caught in the middle of this? WF or DCD should have already been trying to make arrangements for facilitating their potential customer and not what Alleycat0303 is describing.

Dave

I disagree.....and I disagree that it''s horrible service. There is a reason for this.

When a stone moves from one vendor to another without an intermediary, there is potential for problems. If damage is discovered somewhere along the way, it becomes a he said/she said situation. Originating vendor will claim "not me", receiving vendor will claim "not me". BOTH will look bad needlessly.

To avoid this, most vendors prefer to have stone pass either through you or through the appraiser. This removes that potentially disastrous situation.

I did this same thing recently. I bought one stone from Wink to pair with another at WF....wanted to ship Wink''s stone to WF for setting. They mentioned they''d prefer to have me see it first and make sure it met with my satisfaction and inspection. I understood that reasoning, and had no problem with it.

This is a signficant purchase.....it shouldn''t be expected to be as carefree as buying a stamp! It''s also an emotional purchase. Getting upset and letting it turn into an unpleasant experience over a bit of difficulty seems a shame to me. All really great things come with some challenge. Just keep doing the homework and tell the BF to ease up on the pressure.

Haste makes waste.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 6/21/2005 6:23:13 PM
Author: Feydakin
Why do you think that two competitors would not send their product to one another??

I''m trying real hard to be nice about this.. But we keep hearing about how much better Internet Vendors are at this whole customer service thing than B&Ms tend to be.. And stuff like this should never happen, regardless of how or why.. Jewelry should always be a happy thing, and now it has been tainted with stress and negative emotions for no good reason..

I''m going to stop now before I get my hand slapped..............

Seriously, Fey....you *should* get your hand slapped.

You''re going to sit and cast stones? Jewelry should always be a happy thing? Oh, I guess that it''s happy, then, when customers come into a traditional store front and are given a ration of grief about the stone they bought elsewhere (especially if off the big bad evil internet)........and resistance on setting it? Yep.....I bet jewelry''s quite a happy thing then.

I''m trying real hard to be nice about this too, but you are waaaaaaaaaaaay oversimplifying the issue. The risk is lack of inspection in between handling by both parties as per my comment in the post above.

 

[Kaleigh]

Ally,
I am so sorry that this has been such a tough process for you and your BF. It''s too bad that something can''t be worked out, you being in Canada and all. I hope things get worked out, until then big hugs!!!!!

 

[FireGoddess]

I'm confused now. Can any of this be solved by the a. stone or b. setting going through an independent appraiser first, and then being sent to the other company?? (as was previously suggested by several posts)...or is allycat at an impasse with 2 companies?

 

[allycat0303]

Aljedewey: It's your fault for suggesting the perfect stone

.As I mentioned before, I understand policy, it's up to the company to decide what they want to do. BUT I do want to say that yesturday I did speak to Jim and he said it would not be a problem to make the setting without the stone and sending it to me, but it would be better WITH the stone. He changed his mind today when my boyfriend called him back to say that Whiteflash wouldn't ship the stone to DCD.

I don't think I am getting bad customer service from Whiteflash for the shipping, stone purchase etc. I do however feel that the customer service I am getting for my custom job (i.e the lack of info I mentioned before) is not AT ALL what I was expecting. I had heard so many good things about them, that I thought this would go smoothly. Had I felt that my questions were adequately and clearly answered, I would have gone with Whiteflash for the setting (saved the shipping/extra cost headache). Although reading the forum archives maybe I should have called and asked for Brian right away and gotten the specs/details on my setting personally.

 

[Mara]

Simple solution with no drama:

Have WF send the stone to Dave Atlas, or another respected appraiser. He runs the quickie appraisal on it to ensure all is well. Cost..I don''t know..maybe $150? He then ships it off to DCD.

What''s the problem? Everyone is happy.

Seems like WF can''t ship to any vendor for insurance or legal reasons, who knows...so if you really want this stone and this setting, just do the appraiser route and be done with it.

My two cents on this whole thing? Having had a 2.9mm band and now having a 2.7mm band for e-ring and having a 2.3mm w-ring band, if you didn''t like the 2mm band you have, I highly doubt you will love a 1.8mm band. That is a very tiny difference. I see hardly any difference between my 2.9 and 2.7 widths, but do see a difference between the 2.9 and 2.3mm. So if I were you and disliked a 2mm band, I''d go for 1.5mm or something.

Wouldn''t it be a drag to go through all of this for a 1.8mm band and then find out you didn''t like it? Just a thought, but be sure you know what you really want here before you sign up.

Good luck!

 

[allycat0303]

Mara: I don't think that anyone would make me a 1.5 mm band (after all this trouble

) the funny part is that the reason I became so sticky on the info/specs, is that on your post where you got the beautiful new J (love it by the way) you wrote that you had decided with the designer that the max width of you e-ring would be 2.5 mm and it ended up 2.9 mm so you had it filed down a bit. That is when I decided that they needed to be absolutely clear to me and what the width would be (and so far it hasn't been clear). I don't WANT SURPRISES I've gotten conflicting info, and I think when they can't agree on what they are going to tell me it's going to be... it's probably NOT going to end up what I want it to be.

Firegoddess: I'm confused too

. And upset. Although feeling a lot better when I clarify the issues in my mind

 

[Mara]

I totally understand re: band width particulars. When WF did my w-ring, I had a phone convo with Brian on JUST ring widths. They would not make it any thinner than 2.3mm with 2 pointers but did say they could SEE...it ended up being 2.3mm which was fine...turns out it was perfect that way.

But I did want very thin rings to begin with...so it is important to be sure to clarify what you want. One way may be to ensure that specs and details are in writing so that you will not take possession of the item if it is not to spec.

But again...diff between 2mm and 1.8mm? Not enough visually I think. Even though also 2mm is pretty thin! Thinner than my w-ring with 2 pointers!

 

[mrssalvo]

Ally,
I truly believe if Wf says it will be 2mm it will be 2mm. i don''t know why you got several different answers before but I would trust them. My eterntiy band from WF is shared prong with 3 pointers and still only 2mm wide.

 

[Kaleigh]

Geez, now I''m confused!!!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 6/21/2005 8:59:18 PM
Author: allycat0303
Aljedewey: It''s your fault for suggesting the perfect stone

.As I mentioned before, I understand policy, it''s up to the company to decide what they want to do. BUT I do want to say that yesturday I did speak to Jim and he said it would not be a problem to make the setting without the stone and sending it to me, but it would be better WITH the stone. He changed his mind today when my boyfriend called him back to say that Whiteflash wouldn''t ship the stone to DCD.

I don''t think I am getting bad customer service from Whiteflash for the shipping, stone purchase etc. I do however feel that the customer service I am getting for my custom job (i.e the lack of info I mentioned before) is not AT ALL what I was expecting. I had heard so many good things about them, that I thought this would go smoothly. Had I felt that my questions were adequately and clearly answered, I would have gone with Whiteflash for the setting (saved the shipping/extra cost headache). Although reading the forum archives maybe I should have called and asked for Brian right away and gotten the specs/details on my setting personally.

MY FAULT?!?!?!?!? Blasphemy!

Honestly, Ally.......there''s a really simple solution. Call Dave Atlas or Rich Sherwood - you can kill 2 birds with one stone. Have WF send it to one of them, get it appraised (and if you weren''t going to get a full appraisal, at least get a "sign-off" that the stone is undamaged, and then it can be shipped to DCD.

This is a once in a lifetime purchase. Better to get it right the first time. The journey to getting there isn''t important--the destination is. It doesn''t matter how circuitous the process is; it just matters that you''re happy with the end result.

Oh, and a note on the discrepancies. I assume that the DCD setting is pre-made, not custom made, and I suspect that''s why Jim''s answers can be much more defined. If that is the case, there can be only one answer. Not true with custom.

Custom discussions usually go something like this:

"I want a 4-prong set eternity band in 1.8mm"
"Sorry, won''t work. The thinnest you can do that way is 2.5-2.7mm. Depends if you go with A or B. However, if you go *shared-prong*, we can go smaller."
"How much smaller?"
"Oh, probably about 2mm"
"mmm - but I still want 1.8mm - that''s what I had and that''s what I have my heart set on".

This is how custom conversations usually evolve because there''s more than one possibility. This conversation helps a vendor determine what you''re willing to sacrifice on (much like massaging the 4 Cs).....is it the 4-prong setting that''s most important to her or is it the thinnest band? Offeirng you several options will let YOU choose if you want the thinner band more or the 4-prongs, etc. If you have two things you want and both aren''t possible, custom conversations tend to focus on what''s possible......what OPTIONS you have. Hence the "less concrete".

 

[Kaleigh]

Having it sent to Dave Atlas does make sense!!! It only takes them 1-2 days to do the appraisal and then he can send it to DCD???

 

[allycat0303]

Mara: I swear I wish I had the presistence/ nerve to call someone 10 times a day for particulars! You''ré a tiger when it comes to your jewelery

I''m more sedate...I like emails, and if there''s no answer, well I let it go.

Aljedwey: It''s a good kind of blasphamey, if the stone were any less perfect, I could let it go! I might go by an appraiser, at this point, the DCD setting is going to cost me 375$ more if I go that route (that''s 462$ Canadian...because well Canada stinks sometimes). And Shipping the stone multiple time is making me nervous! As for the premade, I have no idea, he said for bezel set, he needed to construct the ring around the diamond, and that if I wanted an eternity instead of 3/4 then it could be made like that. I didn''t ask beyond that. I haven''t decided yet, there''s pros/cons to both companies. But who is David Atlas? And is this shipping to him thing going to work?

Kaleigh: I''m confused to...3 pointers and the band is 2mm??? My first quote was 2pt for 2.5-2.7 mm. NO...NO...NO... not more confusion

.

After my boyfriend talked to Brian, he was convinced that Brian would check it personally to absolutely garantee that it will be 2mm. So I doubt very much he''ll send me anything more then that. I do trust that the band will be 2mm, but if I have any other questions/concerns about the setting, is it going to be the same story again? I don''t want a FIREGODDESS experience from hell with this. It''s already enough. I mean if I ask for halo measurements, am I going to get 3 different answers?

 

[Kaleigh]

Ally,
I don''t blame you for being nervous. This is such an important ring and we all know what Firegodess went through. I don''t see why they can''t give you a straight answer, it''s not brain surgery????

 

[mrssalvo]

Dave Atlas is an well respected appraiser and posts here on PS. Wf would send your stone to him. he does an appraisal and then sends it to DCD. they will do the ring and then ship it back to Dave for a new appraisal which would include the new setting or they can ship it directly to you and you can get you own updated appraisal locally.

i think you meant me with the 2mm - 3 pointers. i haven't actually measured it but that's what Bob at WF told me it was.

 

[allycat0303]

Kaleigh: I think I might just be talking/writing to the wrong people???

Oh to complicate things, Jim from DCD sent me pictures of the setting which he had made for someone else (I haven''t seen a live one on pricescope yet) and my eyes popped out of my head, it is ABSOLUTELY gorgeous. I nearly salivated. There is still a chance that Jim changes his mind and decides to send the setting to Whiteflash (he didn''t want to but my boyfriend begged so he''ll tell us tomorrow what his thoughts are on this matter) fingers are crossed. I really wouldn''t mind saving a few hundred dollars and an extra shipping trip. If not, I''m not sure what I''ll do....Has anyone gone through David Atlas and then to an another dealer? Will Whiteflash allow David Atlas to send it to DCD? Or will David Atlas have to send it to me? I''m not sure if this will work.

 

[mrssalvo]

Ally,
Ginger went through Dave for her Leon Masterpiece. She sent her stone to him, HE sent it to Leon and Leon back to him and then Dave sent it back to Ginger. People go through appraiser''s all the time. WF will send it to Dave, no problem there. Dave can send it to DCD. no problem there. You can decide if you want the finished ring to go back to Dave or directly to your BF. I know it''s all confusing and overwhelming but it really is common to go through and appraiser to verify you are getting what you pay for etc. it sounds like you really LOVE the DCD setting. Hopefully, jim will agree to send it to WF, if not, just have WF go through the appraiser. it''s a fairly painless process and you will have your appraisal complete in the process.

 

[noobie]

Ally,

I think it''s getting far more complicated than it needs to be. A few views on your pros and cons:

I don''t think that 1.8 mm and 2.0 mm will be a noticable difference. Take a ruler and look at a mm and split it five times. That''s how small it is.

You will see no diffference between ACA and full cut premium melee at that size. They are basiclly sparkly chips.

In my experience and I think many others share this, finding a setting is usually more challenging than the diamond. So, if you''re set on DCD''s setting, I''d have Jim find you a stone. Chances are if he found a match and you dropped both of thme on the floor, you would have a hard time telling them apart.

That being said, I would be inclined to have WF make me the setting at 2mm at this point in your process. I''ve purchased from both of them and would buy from them again. Both are fine companies.

I would also not mess around with multiple shipping. Since you are in Montreal, have you considered having it shipped to a Fedex facility in Vermont? You could drive over and pick it up. If it''s not what you expect, sending it back is a breeze through USPS. No hassle with customs and taxes. You can clear up the taxes if it''s OK when you cross the border. I''m not sure, but I recall reading a post that if you "get engaged" while you are away, it may not be subject to duty. I don''t know so you''ll have to check.

Good luck

 

[allycat0303]

Mrsalvo: Oh no. I hope someone else has done this, because Ginger bought her stone from Blue nile (not Whiteflash) and had it for a while in her posession, then she must have sent it to David Atlas on route to Leon. I''m worried that David Atlas won''t be allowed to ship to DCD. Because through their reasoning, the stone could get damaged from David Atlas to DCD. In which case, who would be liable?

Ok. Praying really hard that Jim will agree to send the setting. I do love it. On the website it almost looks like a drawing, but in actual photos, it''s insane.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 6/21/2005 10:28:51 PM
Author: noobie
Ally,


I think it''s getting far more complicated than it needs to be. A few views on your pros and cons:



In my experience and I think many others share this, finding a setting is usually more challenging than the diamond. So, if you''re set on DCD''s setting, I''d have Jim find you a stone. Chances are if he found a match and you dropped both of thme on the floor, you would have a hard time telling them apart.




Good luck

once WF ships you stone, it''s yours, you''ve paid for it. it''s up to you where it goes after dave does the appraisal.

I agree with noobie. if you are worried about the shipping stuff, i would have Jim find you a stone. It sounds like you LOVE the DCD setting and you like knowing exactly what you see is what you''ll get.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/21/2005 9:02:25 PM
Author: Mara
Simple solution with no drama:

Have WF send the stone to Dave Atlas, or another respected appraiser. He runs the quickie appraisal on it to ensure all is well. Cost..I don't know..maybe $150? He then ships it off to DCD.

What's the problem? Everyone is happy.
Good luck!

allycat
agree with Mara,simple solution. since you already paid for the stone,you can have the appraiser ship it to whom ever you like.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 6/21/2005 10:23:27 PM
Author: crankydave

Date: 6/21/2005 9:23:18 PM
Author: aljdewey

Honestly, Ally.......there''s a really simple solution. Call Dave Atlas or Rich Sherwood - you can kill 2 birds with one stone. Have WF send it to one of them, get it appraised (and if you weren''t going to get a full appraisal, at least get a ''sign-off'' that the stone is undamaged, and then it can be shipped to DCD.

The attempts at ''justification'' and ''excuses'' in this thread have become nausiating.

The simple solution was for the vendors involved to handle the logistics. This should not have been an issue for the consumer to resolve. Stop making excuses.

Dave

Justifcation? Excuses? Perhaps you''ve missed the memo, Dave, but I don''t work for any of the vendors involved, so I have no motive to justify or excuse any behavior! I''m not in the practice of making excuses for others, and I really don''t feel compelled to begin now.

Ally & BF have run into a problem. As is true with EVERY problem, THERE IS MORE THAN ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION.

She can spin her wheels and wait for others to come up with a solution (at great mental expense), or she can formulate her own. That simple.

Should she *have* to do that? Not for me to say. My goal isn''t to tell her what should be, but to help her get what she wants. PERIOD.

I don''t care if she reams every vendor from here to the UK over this......I''m not interested in the vendors here. I''m interested in helping her.

I hope this is crystal clear now.

 

[Mara]

Okay Ally...I am going to have to slap you around a bit if you don't stop freaking out for a second and listen.

WF said they would ship to an independent appraiser, DAVE ATLAS IS ONE. A very respected one. Why would this 'not work?'. You are going to give yourself an ulcer over what? A ring?! How are you going to plan the wedding?

Dave can then ship the stone to DCD. End of story! This is a very viable solution if DCD will not ship the setting to WF.

This really IS getting more complicated than it needs to be and is starting to look a bit frantic. Calm down and think. Do you want this stone? Do you want this setting? If so, then figure out a way to make it happen and be DONE. If not, walk away.

It's not about 'being a tiger' when it comes to jewelry, it's about problem solving. Many people have given suggestions on what to do, now stop and think about what would make the most sense. 1) DCD sends the setting to WF. If not 2) WF sends the stone to Dave or another appraiser (aka Richard Sherwood) and then they ship to DCD.

Bring your BF in as a cooler head if necessary.