All the negative publicity for Rotties

[SpldRotten]

I''ve read several very upsetting posts about people and their pups getting attacked by Rottweilers (I''m soo sorry), and I feel like it''s reflecting negatively on my little one

. I''d like just say that all the stereo types are not true!! My 135 lb Rottie, Jackie -O is a mush ball. She''ll lick you to death. I do admit that she''s very protective of me, but would never harm anyone. Likewise, I know she is not very dog friendly (a lot of Rotties are dog friendly though, she''s just not used to being around other dogs much, plus she''s an only child

), hence I do not take her to dog parks, but it is every owner''s responsibility to know the personality of their pet (especially is if it a large dog). So, this is Jackie my spoiled rotten rottie

 

[SpldRotten]

a few more pix

 

[SpldRotten]

here she is doing what she does best, giving kisses!!

 

[Madam Bijoux]

I''ve said this in some other posts:
Just like people, dogs learn what they live. If they''re raised with love, they will be loving. if they''re raised with abuse and hatred, they will be vicious.

Jackie is a sweetie.

 

[SpldRotten]

oh, i agree with you completely, Madam!!
Thank you

 

[iwannaprettyone]

No such thing as bad dogs, just bad owners...same with horses.

Rotties are sweeties, I grew up with a Male rott. His name was Ziggy and he was a big old bear.

 

[lumpkin]

Welllllllll, there are a lot of irresponsible pet owners who don''t want to think their pet is capable of harming someone or other dogs (I''m not implying you are that type of pet owner, but how the heck do I know if someone in general really has a handle on their dog''s behavior?) -- just ask Mandarine about her experience with a neighbor''s dog. Because of that, I would personally not allow my kids to be at someone''s house with a breed that is reputed to attack children unless I was there and could make sure the dog did not have access to my kids. When it comes to the safety of my kids or other people, I strongly believe that those needs outweigh the dog''s. As far as attacking other dogs, I don''t really have an answer to that because I don''t have a dog. When I was a kid we had a Yorkshire Terrier and a Welsh Corgie, and neither had a reputation for attacking.

But, since I mentioned it, even if I had a dog without that reputation, should my dog ever attack someone I would definitely find a home for the dog where he wasn''t around people or have him put down. Hopefully I will never find myself in the position to have to make that decision.

I think as long as a pet owner is willing to take responsibility for their pet''s behavior it''s all good.

 

[Mara]

cute pup!!

i have to say that while i agree with ''no bad dogs only bad owners'' i do think that many breeds have traits inherent to the breed which have been bred in over years and years of time. you cannot just raise a dog ''the right way'' and never have those traits rear their heads in my opinion.

i have a westie bred to hunt small vermin. she''s an exceptional dog, trained, listens, can be off leash. but if she sees a small squirrel or cat zip across the street, she will go after it. i can call after her all i want, pull out her favorite treat, whatever. she is entirely in her own ''zone'' and it''s because of her background and breeding.

i know this and i try to act accordingly with her, aka just be aware of your breed''s history. so many owners think oh i have a wonderful dog, they would never do XYZ. but dogs are unpredictable and can surprise you. i often think about that gal, i can''t remember her name, but she is in SF i think, and her story has made the news multiple times, about how her pet dog, which i think was a doberman or something, mauled her while she slept, and she recently got facial reconstructive surgery to fix so many things wrong with her face from the attack. i''m sure she never thought her pet would do that to her while she slept.

i also have read multiple stories to underscore the unpredictability of dogs...one of which always sticks in my head, about a rott or pitbull, can''t remember, but it was a family pet, raised from pupdom, great dog, raised with 2 kids...no problems, etc etc..then one day the dog was alone with the new baby and the baby was in one of those automated swing things. the dog was left alone with the baby for a few minutes, never had a problem before, ends up attacking, mauling the baby and i think, killing it. perfect family dog, never had any issues or shown any aggression. but something about that swinging baby, the activity, whatever, woke something up in the dog that was dormant for years, bred in many years ago, and it was bad times from then on.

so anyway, not to be a negative nelly but i think that awareness is the most important thing when you are a pet owner. know your breed, what it''s positives and negatives might be, and know your dog as well. i honestly don''t think we''d have a pet in our family that had a history like many rotts or pits just because of that unpredictability factor. there are fabulous wonderful specimens of those breeds out there for sure...but i am just too ''realistic'' about things like that. just like i would probably not let my dog off the leash next to a street where lots of cats and squirrels run around, i know she''d jet across if she saw something, and not listen to me and i''d lose her or have her killed by a car in an instant. and this is the sweetest most loving dog, she WANTS to please us. but she sees that zipping animal and something in her mind clicks and she''s no longer ''our pet'' but instead a hunter.

just my thoughts...

 

[lumpkin]

Very well said, Mara.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 8/2/2007 2:36:47 PM
Author: lumpkin
Very well said, Mara.

I agree. The best pets in the world are, at times, unpredictable. I just came across the following article (with pictures) about a little girl attacked by a dog she played with everyday.

http://www.dailymail.com/story/News/+/2007072519/3-year-old+recovering+in+own+bed+after+pit+bull+attack/

 

[Aloros]

I think it''s important, when buying a purebred animal that has this sort of reputation, to check the temperament of the parents. I think part of the reason rotties and pitt bulls have a bad reputation is because many people breed them to be vicious on pupose.

A responsible breeder will not only look for conformation to physical standards but also for mild temperament when breeding their animals.

 

[AmberGretchen]

As many of you know, I feel very strongly on this subject and have taken a lot of time to educate myself about this and related topics having to do with dogs. I will probably respond in more detail later, but for now I will limit myself to two comments:

1. Spld - that is a gorgeous rottie! What a beautiful dog

I adore rotties and have met some incredibly sweet ones in my time volunteering at a shelter as well as in everyday life.

2. On the topic of unpredictability and dog instincts, I would simply like to point out that neither pit bulls, or rottweilers, or any other breed with a long and recognized history was bred to inflict damage on human beings, and dog aggression towards other dogs and towards humans are completely different things. The logic behind this is very straightforward, but this is an essential point to understand. Therefore, while Mara is absolutely correct in noting that dogs will revert to whatever instincts they were bred to have, in some cases unexpectedly, there is no such thing as a dog breed that was bred to be aggressive or hostile towards humans and has that instinct to revert to.

ETA: Aloros is correct, in fact, human aggression is considered a substandard temperament feature in a pit bull (they are supposed to be outgoing and very affectionate and loyal towards people), and any responsible breeder or rescue will euthanize a dog that displays aggression directed towards human beings.

 

[beachbound]

I agree that it has a lot to do with the owner of the dog. Just like any child being raised by their parents, they develop their personalities. If a child was abused, statistics say that the child will be more likely to grow up as an abuser themselves. Dogs are quite a bit like that.
From the time I was eleven, and still now, our family dog was Toby, a rottweiler/German shepard mix. He was abused, and dumped in our neighborhood; malnourished and trusted no one until he finally collapsed in our yard. He had some problems at first with trusting and being trusted, but after a few months of showing him he was finally okay, he was and has been one of the best dogs I could ever have.
He is sweet, loving, affectionate and smart. He has been around all of my little brother''s and my friends parading in and out of the house when we were younger, and he warmed up to everyone.
My mom and dad now have three dogs in addition to him, and I have three myself, and he plays well with all of them. But hey, that''s just my two cents.

 

[Mara]

AG I totally understand what you are saying re: dogs not bred to show aggression towards humans. However, I sometimes wonder if dogs really get the whole humans vs rodents or similar kind of thing. I see this in Portia in that if there is something small and zippy around, she is obsessed with hunting it ... whatever it is. She has recently become interested in cats also because they run across the street, she literally loses her mind on the leash trying to go after them. What would she do when she caught them? Nothing because that is what she was bred for. To hunt and trap the prey but not to hurt it. She never catches anything because she''s a domesticated, slow little furry beast...hehee. But anything small and fast she is interested in. So when I think of something like the story with the house pet and the baby in the automated rocker, the dog could have been just focused more on the ''thing moving'' rather than the rocker or the baby and maybe didn''t differentiate between the two. Who really knows.

Anyway I don''t want people who have dogs to be offended by what I said...I do think that many high-risk breed dogs make fabulous pets. My point in my post was just to be AWARE of what the tendencies might be in your pet''s breed and the history of the breed, and as someone else pointed out, parents and bloodlines are good to look at as well.

 

[rainbowtrout]

First off, pretty doggie! She looks darling.


OK, so this is a tough issue. My personal feeling on the matter is that if you own a breed such as a Rottie or an Akita, you should keep them muzzled in public *no matter how sweet they are,* it is just for the "what if??" scenarios.


Our dogs were wonderful animals and companions and I miss them dearly, but they WERE potentially dangerous animals that needed to be well trained, diciplined, and treated with respect. Owning a big, bred-to-be-agressive dog is not a joke, it is a large responsibility.


My father never thought it was worth the trouble to muzzle our male, and lo and behold one summer he bit THROUGH my cousin's arm. More exactly, he put one canine straight through his arm.

Now, my cousin is in my opinion an untreated schizophrenic who likes to torture animals for fun. He had been torturing Sake for weeks before Sake attacked him--and while he could easily have torn my cousin's throat out, he chose not to. My cousin deserved what he got--but that is NOT the point. The point is that a different breed would not have been as able or as likely to attack my cousin, and if Sake had been *muzzled* the whole situation would never have happened, and we wouldn't have had to deal with potentially putting him down.


The well trained Rotties I have met are sweethearts. But they still deserve respect and constant training. It's not a Bichon!


ETA: Mara, I do know what you mean about it not mattering on the kind of animal but more the size. Sake and Mahrette were wonderful around children they KNEW, but I personally never felt totally comfortable having them around young children because if the child makes squeaky prey noises and acts like prey--it just is not worth any potential risk.


You also have to consider agression towards other animals. Our dogs killed several stray cats, numerous squirrels, any slow birds, rats.... Do you want to be responsible for your pet killing the neighbor's cat? Can you handle it if they do?

 

[Mandarine]

awwww...

I could kiss and hug the screen....your pup is adorable!...However, in person it would give me the chills!...hehe..,just from my past experience.

Since probably all "Rottie" talk within PS is my "fault", I feel obligated to respond

I don''t think I stereotype dogs. I guess my fear of rotties now is normal after what happenned...but being the dog lover that I am, I am sure I would feel comfortable around one that I know for a fact is well trained and hasn''t shown signs of aggression.

With that said though....(and I know many people would disagree with me). Not all breeds are for everyone or for all living quarters!!!.

Type of owner: All dogs have different needs, including the "type of owner" they have. I think I am a great miniature schnauzer mommy, but he does get away with some things that he shouldn''t. A large dog (in my opinion) requires more discipline than smaller dogs. For example, my dog goes bananas when he sees a squirrel. I can stop him from running after them because I can keep a hold of his leash. If he was 120 lbs, I wouldn''t be able to hold on to him!. In his case, when he sees a squirrel, he forgets all his manners! he won''t listen to "leave it" or any other commands!. I can "afford" to have him act that way because physical;y I can control him. I''m not saying I''m proud of that (I wish he would follow commands at all times!)...but he doesn''t and that''s my fault...because I let him get away with it once and I wasn''t disciplined and consistent.

Then there is the living quarters consideration. I think don''t think people that live in a 1,100 square foot home should get a 120lbs dog!....specially when they don''t have a fenced in backyard. Dogs need space and they need exercise. The dog that attacks me goes to the dog park (according to the owners) like once a week). Other than that he gets a half block walk in the morning and one at night...and that''s it!. They don''t have a backyard. The dog sits and stares out the window ALL DAY LONG. Of course he doesn''t like me...I walk in front of his house multiple times a day. He is protective of his house and has a lot of built up energy!.

I adore big dogs, but they''re just not for everyone. That goes for rotties, pit bulls, great danes, even labs!. People should spend time researching which type of dog is right for them and then I think we would see less problems.

I think dogs in most cases are a representation of the upbringing they had. The amount of exercise, love, discipline, consistency and security they receive will be shown proportionally in how they act. I do think that there are dogs out there that may have something that is out of everyone''s control...just like there are some humans that are just born without a chip. I don''t think it is breed specific, but I''m no expert.

I just wish people were more responsible.

My neighbors still have the rottie, he still pulls on his leash, they still can''t keep him under control. I see them sometimes walking their dog and you can see how he pulls them everywhere. The dog still jumps, growls and barks at me every single day. Sometimes I hear them in the background "SHUT UP!"...and that''s about it. They''re not responsible!. They had a smaller dog that died recently after swalloing a bone. They have a cat that roams free everyday and does his business in my backyard and back deck...do I feel comfortable knowing that dog is right next door? no way!...and after my experience I am now more aware of my surroundings. I do cross the street when I see a big dog that *looks* intimidating. Is it because I don''t like the breed? absolutely not, it;s because I don''t know what type of owners that dog has and how he behaves!! and being a big dog, I don''t know that the person walking them can keep a hold of the leash if the dog decides to go bananas after me.

Your dog looks adorable though!!. My dad has a Brazilian Fila (even bigger dog!!!) and even though I''ve only seen that dog about 6 times in his entire life (they live in Costa Rica)...I don''t feel intimidated at all when I''m around him. I know my dad has him well trained and he''s nothing but a big loving pet!!...I cuddle with him and never once feel scared.

Welcome to PS!

M~

 

[rainbowtrout]

To give a contrast to SpldRotten''s baby so you get an idea of the size of dog I''ve had experience with, this is my father and I and the dogs:

 

[Mandarine]

haha so cute RT!...

here are my dad''s filas (the girl passed the way early this year

)

I adore those dogs!

 

[Mandarine]

love ''em to pieces!

 

[rainbowtrout]

Awwwww, I love their huge paws and crazy coats! So cute! Sake used to look like a little polar bear when he was young.


Jackie-O''s face is ADORABLE though.

 

[mellyjm]

A couple of weeks ago my husband told me about his cousin in California who had his dog killed by the police. He owned a pitt bull, and honestly I don''t know what I think about it. It does breaks my heart that my cousin-in-law has to mourn such an awful death. I would never wish this death on any dog owner, no matter what kind of dog they own. You can read an article about it here: http://www.redding.com/news/2007/jul/13/moty-blames-owner-in-dogs-death/

 

[basil]

Beautiful dog!

I tend to think that there is an inherent temperment to all breeds that can't totally be overcome. I do think some breeds have been bred as guard dogs, and that's where the aggression against humans can come from - if they believe their territory or pack (family) is threatened.

But I think there's also a human element - I think irresponsible owners (of which the OP clearly is not) are drawn more to certain breeds because of their reputation or whatever. Aggressive people like dogs with an aggressive reputation and it becomes a vicious cycle.

My dog (a cavalier king charles spaniel) was bred to sleep with the ladies of the castle and keep them warm (and keep the fleas off). And true to type, cuddling under the covers is her favorite activity

 

[SpldRotten]

Not all breeds are for everyone or for all living quarters!!!.

Type of owner: All dogs have different needs, including the ''type of owner'' they have. I think I am a great miniature schnauzer mommy, but he does get away with some things that he shouldn''t. A large dog (in my opinion) requires more discipline than smaller dogs. For example, my dog goes bananas when he sees a squirrel. I can stop him from running after them because I can keep a hold of his leash. If he was 120 lbs, I wouldn''t be able to hold on to him!. In his case, when he sees a squirrel, he forgets all his manners! he won''t listen to ''leave it'' or any other commands!. I can ''afford'' to have him act that way because physical;y I can control him. I''m not saying I''m proud of that (I wish he would follow commands at all times!)...but he doesn''t and that''s my fault...because I let him get away with it once and I wasn''t disciplined and consistent.

Then there is the living quarters consideration. I think don''t think people that live in a 1,100 square foot home should get a 120lbs dog!....specially when they don''t have a fenced in backyard. Dogs need space and they need exercise. The dog that attacks me goes to the dog park (according to the owners) like once a week). Other than that he gets a half block walk in the morning and one at night...and that''s it!. They don''t have a backyard. The dog sits and stares out the window ALL DAY LONG. Of course he doesn''t like me...I walk in front of his house multiple times a day. He is protective of his house and has a lot of built up energy!.

Mandarine, first, I feel horrible about what happened to you, and understand why you are weary of Rotties, it''s only natural. I completely agree with you on the contrary. Taking into consideration traits of a breed are very important when considering a pup (especially a jumbo sized one like mine). But, common traits of a breed do not denote aggression, which is often times influenced by temperament and TRAINING.

Lumpkin, the unfortunate stereotypes do not prove to be true. It is of course your choice, but studies do show that dog ownership (I assume it extends to pet ownership in general) has an extremely valuable impact on society.. "research supports a positive correlation between the strength of a child''s bond with a pet and his/her empathy for other people'' according to Dr. Poresky... at the risk of sounding rhetorical, I completely agree with Amber Gretchen.

LAJennifer, surely, you are aware of the 1000nds of great stories per each one horrifying article blown up by the media about out big babies. Check these out:

http://www.pbrc.net/misc/PBRCHeros.pdf

http://www.colossalrottweilers.com/heroicrotts2.html

http://www.suite101.com/external_link.cfm?elink=http://www.rott-n-chatter.com/hearts/

http://www.colossalrottweilers.com/heroicrotts3.html

I''ve got a couple of my own to add!!!

Rainbowtrout, I completely agree with the fact that owners need to take all necessary precautions when out in public. In part due to the fact that unpredictable circumstances may frighten, alarm and catch dogs off guard. Jackie is not a fan of having strangers stick fingers into her mouth, but when we were minding our business at our neighborhood park, a dim witted gentleman was there with three young children who, while yelling at the top of their lungs set up a ring around the rosy convoy and attempted to take turns checking out the twig Jackie had picked up on our walk. Not only was she displeased, but I was baffled. I, being a dog owner, and having no inhibitions whatsoever when it comes to canines of all sizes, would never approach a dog I did not know, without first asking their owner for permission ( and even then, I would definitely no go checking on the size of their teeth). When out in a populated area Jackie sports a muzzle (although she hates me for it), and she is NEVER off the leash.

MellyJM, I''m horrified when I hear stories like that. Send my condolences, my heart and soul is with them.

And by the way Rainbow and Mandarine, what cuties!!!

please post some more pix!!

I appreciate everyone''s thoughts, and hope not to come off negative or offensive...

If anyone would like, I can post some pix of Jackie''s pups (we had a littler of 9 last November)...

 

[Mandarine]

I love pups, so post pictures!!!

I wish owners had to pass some sort of test before getting any type of dog! big or small!!. A lot of people get a dog or a specific breed for all the wrong reasons and they don''t think beforehand what kind of training each pup will need.

This happened to me once. We rescued a lab mix and he is now the sweetest dog (he lives with my ex)...but BOY did we have a hard time training him! He was out of control! I had no idea how much work it was going to be when we got him. He pretty much destroyed the downstairs of the house. We made a lot of mistakes training him because we didn''t do our homework first!. Thankfully, he turned out great, but it required a lot of patience and training!.

I do think it''s unfair that certain breeds just have a bad reputation...it''s not their fault!. You have a beautiful doggie!...and no, your post don''t come as negative or offensive at all!...you love your girl and she''s beautiful

M~

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 8/2/2007 8:01:37 PM
Author: SpldRotten

LAJennifer, surely, you are aware of the 1000nds of great stories per each one horrifying article blown up by the media about out big babies. Check these out:

http://www.pbrc.net/misc/PBRCHeros.pdf

http://www.colossalrottweilers.com/heroicrotts2.html

http://www.suite101.com/external_link.cfm?elink=http://www.rott-n-chatter.com/hearts/

http://www.colossalrottweilers.com/heroicrotts3.html

I''ve got a couple of my own to add!!!

I am well aware - but I hardly think the article I referenced was "blown up by the media". That dog was a seemingly wonderful pet that the little girl would share popsicles with (how cute is that?). No one could have predicted he would have attacked her so violently. While us pet owners view our pets as members of our families, that doesn''t change the fact that they are animals - and animals are sometimes unpredictable. Personally, I would never own a big dog (of any breed) if I had small children. Nor would I let my children go to homes where big dogs live. That being said, if I were to own a big dog - I would choose a Rottie.

 

[princesss]

I think what people don't realize (and some people have mentioned) is that not all breeds are right for all people, and that dogs are a lot of work. I love dogs, especially rotties and pits and have no hesitation saying that my kids (if I have them) will be raised around large dogs. But ALL pets are animals, and owners need to understand that animal instincts can take over in any pet. It takes a lot of effort to make sure your pets are as safe *as possible*, including hundreds of hours of training, constant reinforcement of what they've learned, and understanding of the breed's temperament. I don't like muzzles, but I do like haltees and (for lack of a better word) full body *short* leashes that give you more control over the dog's movement.

I do believe, though, that several breeds get a bad rep, and then it's assumed that attacks involving dogs of unknown breeding are assumed to be one of the less popular breeds. A large number of dog bites comes from cocker spaniels.

In the end, get a dog you can control (physically - if you can't pin down or hold back a breed when they're jumping towards something, get a smaller breed), because you are the only thing in between your pet and potential attacks.

ETA: Beautiful dogs, everybody! I can't wait until I can get a new one. Just about 2 years...a year until I graduate, and then a year until I should have enough money and understanding of my schedule to know if/what kind of breed I can get.

 

[widget]

Wow....what an interesting thread! And what interesting timing! I just today met a pup at the local animal shelter that I''m considering adopting. He''s described by them as a lab/rott cross, but he looks to me like a pitbull cross!

Some of the comments above have given me pause....we''ll see...

I''ve had dogs all my life...and it''s been a pretty long life! I loved them all of course, but the very best one...the sweetest, gentlest, wisest one....was a Rotty-cross. (I''m glad Widget can''t read this..

)

I honestly don''t think he would have hurt a fly, but when my grandaughter started crawling/tottling, I always put him out then she visited. By then he was pretty lame and sore with old age, and I worried that the baby might inadvertantly hurt him, and trigger a defensive response. You just can''t be too careful.

Lordy...he was a great dog. I still miss him. Here are a couple of pictures. Sorry about the quality. They were taken LONG before digital cameras! His name was Spencer

 

[widget]

....and here''s a picture that shows Spencer''s temperment. It was taken only a day or two after his new little brother, Bogie, was adopted....

 

[SpldRotten]

widget (or whoever it is under widget''s sn

), please, don''t let some of the comments change your mind. I’m sure the lab/pitt/rottie pup will grow up to be a sweet, gentle doggie, give how it look like you''ve got experience with large breeds.

BTW Spencer looks like a gentle giant!! Very Handsome.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Oh Widget - how incredibly handsome was Spencer!!

PLEASE don''t let the comments in this thread threaten you possibly adopting a sweetheart in need (pit mizes are euthanized at such high rates its heartbreaking - the ones that have been properly socialized really deserve a shot at a good life, because they can be such lovely dogs). Find out all you can about this specific dog from the shelter staff, and use proper training techniques. If you have concerns about breed-specific stuff, this website has a really excellent section detailing the pros and cons and specific steps to take when considering a pit bull or pit bull mix. I''m sure Widget would love a new rottie/pit sibling!!