2014 Health Insurance Premiums - Ouch!

[ericad]

wealth does not equal hard work in all instances.
in some instances it does equal being born into the correct family and/or class.
and I don't call investing and making $ off people the way Enron did [as well as other corporations] "hard work".
nor do I call cheating the system by using the system to store one's wealth off shore hard work.
then there is that whole issue of derivatives.......

for some reason those with wealth think they did it on their own and w/o the help of anyone else much less the government rules that favor them. for some reason they think that helping others is taking something away from them. for some reason they do think they did work harder than the other person....and in some cases maybe they did. but in many cases they did not.

if in 2013 we can't find it in our hearts and in our wallets to support our society for the betterment of all then I fear we may one day go the way of the French Revolution which saw a lot of wealthy heads roll.

I wish PS had a "like" function. LIKE, LIKE!!! My husband references the French Revolution almost once a week. If people think I'm a raving socialist, you should see him on a rant, lol.

 

[Dancing Fire]

wealth does not equal hard work in all instances.
in some instances it does equal being born into the correct family and/or class.
and I don't call investing and making $ off people the way Enron did [as well as other corporations] "hard work".
nor do I call cheating the system by using the system to store one's wealth off shore hard work.
then there is that whole issue of derivatives.......

for some reason those with wealth think they did it on their own and w/o the help of anyone else much less the government rules that favor them. for some reason they think that helping others is taking something away from them. for some reason they do think they did work harder than the other person....and in some cases maybe they did. but in many cases they did not.

if in 2013 we can't find it in our hearts and in our wallets to support our society for the betterment of all then I fear we may one day go the way of the French Revolution which saw a lot of wealthy heads roll.

Like when communism took over China in 1949?

 

[movie zombie]

communism took over in China pretty much for the same reason heads rolled during the French Revolution.
ditto in Russia.
you get big changes like that when the masses are tired of being serfs.
so, yes, continue down this path and the LA Riots are going to look like a picnic.

 

[Dancing Fire]

communism took over in China pretty much for the same reason heads rolled during the French Revolution.
ditto in Russia.
you get big changes like that when the masses are tired of being serfs.
so, yes, continue down this path and the LA Riots are going to look like a picnic.

So communism is the solution for America?..

 

[msop04]

ericad

It's also possible that people make such inflammatory statements in order to end the conversation, because the opposition will just shake their heads and walk away. Maybe I won't leave the thread after all.

Dancing Fire
calm down...even the best health insurance in the world can't stop you from getting an heart attack..

Daaaaaang, I had no idea people would get so bent out of shape about a silly comment. To clarify to those whose hearts can't take it, it was simply a loose analogy to being a "slave to the system." Can I even say the word slave without offending someone? Do we know what this even means?? I'll clarify what I meant by that as well.

One dictionary definition defines a slave is “one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence”. In this day and age, millions of Americans are slaves of the system and they don’t even realize it as it sucks them dry. I don't know how the original poster meant, but I certainly did not mean for it to be taken so literally.

Still don't get it?? Well, can't help ya there. <shrugs>

 

[makhro82]

ericad

It's also possible that people make such inflammatory statements in order to end the conversation, because the opposition will just shake their heads and walk away. Maybe I won't leave the thread after all.

Dancing Fire
calm down...even the best health insurance in the world can't stop you from getting an heart attack..

Daaaaaang, I had no idea people would get so bent out of shape about a silly comment. To clarify to those whose hearts can't take it, it was simply a loose analogy to being a "slave to the system." Can I even say the word slave without offending someone? Do we know what this even means?? I'll clarify what I meant by that as well.

One dictionary definition defines a slave is “one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence”. In this day and age, millions of Americans are slaves of the system and they don’t even realize it as it sucks them dry. I don't know how the original poster meant, but I certainly did not mean for it to be taken so literally.

Still don't get it?? Well, can't help ya there. <shrugs>

Honestly? No you can't. Not in my opinion at least. My family came from real slaves. People who were beaten, raped, starved, mutilated, lynched and worked to their deaths so please forgive me if I can't appreciate the comparison. The definition may be the same but the reality is not.

 

[msop04]

Honestly? No you can't. Not in my opinion at least. My family came from real slaves. People who were beaten, raped, starved, mutilated, lynched and worked to their deaths so please forgive me if I can't appreciate the comparison. The definition may be the same but the reality is not.

makhro, in all actuality all of our people came from slaves at some point, unless they happen to be a direct descendant of some royal line dating back to the dawn of man. I understand if you can't appreciate the comparison, that's fine... My family's lineage has been traced back as far as the Middle Ages, where literally everyone except the royal court were slaves to the king. The same can be said for pretty much everyone on earth.

 

[makhro82]

Honestly? No you can't. Not in my opinion at least. My family came from real slaves. People who were beaten, raped, starved, mutilated, lynched and worked to their deaths so please forgive me if I can't appreciate the comparison. The definition may be the same but the reality is not.

makhro, in all actuality all of our people came from slaves at some point, unless they happen to be a direct descendant of some royal line dating back to the dawn of man. I understand if you can't appreciate the comparison, that's fine... My family's lineage has been traced back as far as the Middle Ages, where literally everyone except the royal court were slaves to the king. The same can be said for pretty much everyone on earth.

Not every situation was like American slavery. Do you look like what a slave is perceived to look like? Is your race or culture still suffering from the ramifications of slavery? I just don't think you get it... My experiences in America have shaped my beliefs just as yours have and my experiences have probably been very different than yours. My grandmother was a sharecropper (which was essentially another form of slavery) and picked cotton in MS. She was not allowed an education so she later became a maid. She fled MS for the north because she feared for her sons lives. Have you experienced something like this? You cannot compare the experience of Black slaves to different places because there was nothing like it... This has gone very off topic so if you would like to further discuss the reality of being different, poor, uneducated, uninsured, etc. in America you can message me on LT (same username). We should probably discuss the Hobby Lobby thread there too.

 

[makhro82]

Honestly? No you can't. Not in my opinion at least. My family came from real slaves. People who were beaten, raped, starved, mutilated, lynched and worked to their deaths so please forgive me if I can't appreciate the comparison. The definition may be the same but the reality is not.

makhro, in all actuality all of our people came from slaves at some point, unless they happen to be a direct descendant of some royal line dating back to the dawn of man. I understand if you can't appreciate the comparison, that's fine... My family's lineage has been traced back as far as the Middle Ages, where literally everyone except the royal court were slaves to the king. The same can be said for pretty much everyone on earth.

Oh and don't I have to go back to the Middle Ages to find my slaves and they didn't work in the royal court...

 

[makhro82]

There are some great examples here about health: http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/10/list-of-upperclass-privilege/

 

[TooPatient]

Msop -- I understand what you meant by your comment. The word you chose (even though used according to definition) is one that has specific meaning about a horrible event. There are similar feelings towards words like rape -- as I have let people know when they use it in some other (correct by definition) situation.

Anyway... Language! One of the challenges of written discussions like this is you lose the body language and voice tones that help us communicate through speech.


MSOP -- Have you ever watched the movie "Atlas Shrugged" -- if not, you should. It addresses exactly what we're talking about here. (Parts 1 & 2 are both GREAT! I'm waiting impatiently for part 3.)

 

[ksinger]

communism took over in China pretty much for the same reason heads rolled during the French Revolution.
ditto in Russia.
you get big changes like that when the masses are tired of being serfs.
so, yes, continue down this path and the LA Riots are going to look like a picnic.

So communism is the solution for America?..

DF, you really need to take some time out from making and lobbing strawmen, to learn how to comprehend and then address what people actually write.

 

[JewelFreak]

if in 2013 we can't find it in our hearts and in our wallets to support our society for the betterment of all then I fear we may one day go the way of the French Revolution

Several have posted they wouldn't mind paying "a little more tax to help the poor." What do you define as "a little more?" In Holland, income tax on 0 to $26K salary is 37%. Over that, it rises to 42%. VAT (sort of sales tax) on goods & services: 21%. Dutch taxes are not the most confiscatory in Europe. Forced "helping" to this extreme makes it impossible to increase a family's well-being. Essentially, the gov't tells citizens how much they are allowed to keep from their own toil. Is this fair? Why toil very hard, then, when half is taken away by force, not to mention 21% tax on what you buy or services you contract?

Lincoln again: "The right to freely enjoy the fruits of one's own labor is as much a matter of liberty as any other natural right, and denying it makes slavery a great & crying injustice..."

Makhro, I fully sympathize with your bitterness & anger on the part of your ancestors; I'd feel the same. A "great & crying injustice" it truly was. Unfortunately, however, that does not give descendants of American slaves a lock on mention of the subject. Slavery in various forms is as old as humanity. Slavery is the shifting of the burden of work to the shoulders of another & confiscating the value of his work to oneself. If we can't discuss it, how do we change the world? (And keep this thread from being closed!)

--- Laurie

 

[Circe]

Good lord. For the cheap seats:

Preemptively, I am not the language police (if I were, I could say "Put up your hands and come out parsing!" and, frankly, would spend little time doing anything else), it is not "censorship" to criticize word choice, and the invitation to consider thinking of other people's feeling before you speak is not oppression.

YES SOME WORDS ARE STILL HURTFUL FOR THE LOVE OF MOONSTONES AND LITTLE FISHES CAN WE STOP BEING DISINGENUOUS.

I hate this Fox News crap, where people deliberately choose incendiary words and then look innocent when they successfully provoke a reaction, distract the viewing audience from the lack of logic in the argument, and then cry victim because they didn't mean it like THAT, lawks, no!

People. White people are not slaves to jack. They may be suffering class oppression, but, oddly, whenever that comes up, we get a long-winded defense of the free market, which is really ironic. Hell, my ancestors actually were serfs under a feudal system until roughly the same time that people of color were enslaved in America, and because we could blend into the larger culture more easily once the system was abolished, recovery was vaguely plausible. But the legacy of American slavery? Yeah, between tearing people out of their culture, systematically destroying their family structures, and codifying the exact degree of physical differentiation from the default that would permit abuse ... yeah, no, that's not something that gets fixed in three generations.

So for a different metaphor ... yeah, we're all certainly being fleeced like sheep, herded into whatever pastures are deemed most profitable. So instead of fighting amongst ourselves, why not focus on who exactly is doing the herding? Who owns the companies, how their political interests intertwine with their policy decisions, and what we need to lobby for in order to change that system?

 

[chrono]

So for a different metaphor ... yeah, we're all certainly being fleeced like sheep, herded into whatever pastures are deemed most profitable. So instead of fighting amongst ourselves, why not focus on who exactly is doing the herding? Who owns the companies, how their political interests intertwine with their policy decisions, and what we need to lobby for in order to change that system?

Thank you Circe for bringing the topic back on track. I do not want this thread to be shut down. I am not sufficiently eloquent enough to contribute to this thread even though there are a million thoughts swirling around in my head. I just know that it'll come out wrong and start a flame war.

 

[ksinger]

Good lord. For the cheap seats:

Preemptively, I am not the language police (if I were, I could say "Put up your hands and come out parsing!" and, frankly, would spend little time doing anything else), it is not "censorship" to criticize word choice, and the invitation to consider thinking of other people's feeling before you speak is not oppression.

YES SOME WORDS ARE STILL HURTFUL FOR THE LOVE OF MOONSTONES AND LITTLE FISHES CAN WE STOP BEING DISINGENUOUS.

I hate this Fox News crap, where people deliberately choose incendiary words and then look innocent when they successfully provoke a reaction, distract the viewing audience from the lack of logic in the argument, and then cry victim because they didn't mean it like THAT, lawks, no!

People. White people are not slaves to jack. They may be suffering class oppression, but, oddly, whenever that comes up, we get a long-winded defense of the free market, which is really ironic. Hell, my ancestors actually were serfs under a feudal system until roughly the same time that people of color were enslaved in America, and because we could blend into the larger culture more easily once the system was abolished, recovery was vaguely plausible. But the legacy of American slavery? Yeah, between tearing people out of their culture, systematically destroying their family structures, and codifying the exact degree of physical differentiation from the default that would permit abuse ... yeah, no, that's not something that gets fixed in three generations.

So for a different metaphor ... yeah, we're all certainly being fleeced like sheep, herded into whatever pastures are deemed most profitable. So instead of fighting amongst ourselves, why not focus on who exactly is doing the herding? Who owns the companies, how their political interests intertwine with their policy decisions, and what we need to lobby for in order to change that system?

Thank the stars. I've been waiting for you all morning. What took you so long?? I was even perusing all your past posts for one that I (all too vaguely recall) where you addressed the dominant group distracting from their sins and trying to force a false equivalence by pointing out and enlarging the ridiculously few times they've had to deal with some sort of discrimination. I couldn't find it, but you swooped in just now and saved MY day at least. I love your posts above all others, truly.

 

[ksinger]

So for a different metaphor ... yeah, we're all certainly being fleeced like sheep, herded into whatever pastures are deemed most profitable. So instead of fighting amongst ourselves, why not focus on who exactly is doing the herding? Who owns the companies, how their political interests intertwine with their policy decisions, and what we need to lobby for in order to change that system?

Thank you Circe for bringing the topic back on track. I do not want this thread to be shut down. I am not sufficiently eloquent enough to contribute to this thread even though there are a million thoughts swirling around in my head. I just know that it'll come out wrong and start a flame war.

Yeah, ditto this.

 

[msop04]

Not every situation was like American slavery. Do you look like what a slave is perceived to look like? Is your race or culture still suffering from the ramifications of slavery? I just don't think you get it... My experiences in America have shaped my beliefs just as yours have and my experiences have probably been very different than yours. My grandmother was a sharecropper (which was essentially another form of slavery) and picked cotton in MS. She was not allowed an education so she later became a maid. She fled MS for the north because she feared for her sons lives. Have you experienced something like this? You cannot compare the experience of Black slaves to different places because there was nothing like it... This has gone very off topic so if you would like to further discuss the reality of being different, poor, uneducated, uninsured, etc. in America you can message me on LT (same username). We should probably discuss the Hobby Lobby thread there too.

You're exactly right, not every situation was like American slavery...
Yep, off topic... sorry -- I will message you in LT (I think my username is the same, but if not, I'll let ya know...)

 

[msop04]

I don't spend a lot of time on LT, would you let me know where I might find the PM option??

 

[msop04]

Msop -- I understand what you meant by your comment. The word you chose (even though used according to definition) is one that has specific meaning about a horrible event. There are similar feelings towards words like rape -- as I have let people know when they use it in some other (correct by definition) situation.

Anyway... Language! One of the challenges of written discussions like this is you lose the body language and voice tones that help us communicate through speech.


MSOP -- Have you ever watched the movie "Atlas Shrugged" -- if not, you should. It addresses exactly what we're talking about here. (Parts 1 & 2 are both GREAT! I'm waiting impatiently for part 3.)

Yes, TooPatient, I realized that this came across the wrong way after the fact, but I am aware of it now, so I apologize if my choice of words offended some, no matter how they were meant to be used. I do try to take this into consideration when I write, but clearly I failed in this thread. I need to understand that this is a forum and not an active "conversation" where we cannot hear "tone" and other things that might help us to understand other's intentions. Point made and taken.

Also, I will try to find that movie -- is it on Netflix?? If not, can you recommend some options to obtain a copy or watch online??

 

[ericad]

Good lord. For the cheap seats:

Preemptively, I am not the language police (if I were, I could say "Put up your hands and come out parsing!" and, frankly, would spend little time doing anything else), it is not "censorship" to criticize word choice, and the invitation to consider thinking of other people's feeling before you speak is not oppression.

YES SOME WORDS ARE STILL HURTFUL FOR THE LOVE OF MOONSTONES AND LITTLE FISHES CAN WE STOP BEING DISINGENUOUS.

I hate this Fox News crap, where people deliberately choose incendiary words and then look innocent when they successfully provoke a reaction, distract the viewing audience from the lack of logic in the argument, and then cry victim because they didn't mean it like THAT, lawks, no!

People. White people are not slaves to jack. They may be suffering class oppression, but, oddly, whenever that comes up, we get a long-winded defense of the free market, which is really ironic. Hell, my ancestors actually were serfs under a feudal system until roughly the same time that people of color were enslaved in America, and because we could blend into the larger culture more easily once the system was abolished, recovery was vaguely plausible. But the legacy of American slavery? Yeah, between tearing people out of their culture, systematically destroying their family structures, and codifying the exact degree of physical differentiation from the default that would permit abuse ... yeah, no, that's not something that gets fixed in three generations.

So for a different metaphor ... yeah, we're all certainly being fleeced like sheep, herded into whatever pastures are deemed most profitable. So instead of fighting amongst ourselves, why not focus on who exactly is doing the herding? Who owns the companies, how their political interests intertwine with their policy decisions, and what we need to lobby for in order to change that system?

 

[TooPatient]

Msop -- I understand what you meant by your comment. The word you chose (even though used according to definition) is one that has specific meaning about a horrible event. There are similar feelings towards words like rape -- as I have let people know when they use it in some other (correct by definition) situation.

Anyway... Language! One of the challenges of written discussions like this is you lose the body language and voice tones that help us communicate through speech.


MSOP -- Have you ever watched the movie "Atlas Shrugged" -- if not, you should. It addresses exactly what we're talking about here. (Parts 1 & 2 are both GREAT! I'm waiting impatiently for part 3.)

Yes, TooPatient, I realized that this came across the wrong way after the fact, but I am aware of it now, so I apologize if my choice of words offended some, no matter how they were meant to be used. I do try to take this into consideration when I write, but clearly I failed in this thread. I need to understand that this is a forum and not an active "conversation" where we cannot hear "tone" and other things that might help us to understand other's intentions. Point made and taken.

Also, I will try to find that movie -- is it on Netflix?? If not, can you recommend some options to obtain a copy or watch online??

Netflix should have both parts. Not sure about streaming. I bought both from Best Buy about $10 each.

 

[msop04]

Netflix should have both parts. Not sure about streaming. I bought both from Best Buy about $10 each.

Thanks, I will certainly check this out!!

 

[movie zombie]

Good lord. For the cheap seats:

Preemptively, I am not the language police (if I were, I could say "Put up your hands and come out parsing!" and, frankly, would spend little time doing anything else), it is not "censorship" to criticize word choice, and the invitation to consider thinking of other people's feeling before you speak is not oppression.

YES SOME WORDS ARE STILL HURTFUL FOR THE LOVE OF MOONSTONES AND LITTLE FISHES CAN WE STOP BEING DISINGENUOUS.

I hate this Fox News crap, where people deliberately choose incendiary words and then look innocent when they successfully provoke a reaction, distract the viewing audience from the lack of logic in the argument, and then cry victim because they didn't mean it like THAT, lawks, no!

People. White people are not slaves to jack. They may be suffering class oppression, but, oddly, whenever that comes up, we get a long-winded defense of the free market, which is really ironic. Hell, my ancestors actually were serfs under a feudal system until roughly the same time that people of color were enslaved in America, and because we could blend into the larger culture more easily once the system was abolished, recovery was vaguely plausible. But the legacy of American slavery? Yeah, between tearing people out of their culture, systematically destroying their family structures, and codifying the exact degree of physical differentiation from the default that would permit abuse ... yeah, no, that's not something that gets fixed in three generations.

So for a different metaphor ... yeah, we're all certainly being fleeced like sheep, herded into whatever pastures are deemed most profitable. So instead of fighting amongst ourselves, why not focus on who exactly is doing the herding? Who owns the companies, how their political interests intertwine with their policy decisions, and what we need to lobby for in order to change that system?

 

[momhappy]

I think there is a difference between wealthy and SUPER wealthy. Like those who earn tens of thousands of dollars off of interest in just a few hours-to the point where they could give away 90% of their wealth and still live far more comfortably than many of us would ever dare to dream.

A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to. I'm talking about the mulch-billionares and even (hundreds) millionaires. Sure they worked hard for their money (and I'm not saying they should have to give it away or share it) but how many of those people are rich bc of slave labor or ripping off the little guys (hedge fund fraud comes to mind) and still walk away with their huge bonuses while not giving their employees raises/etc?

To be honest, I don't think it matters how someone earns their money. I may not agree with the circumstances under which someone earns their income, but at the end of the day, it's still their money and it's still not fair to expect the to give it away.

Paying taxes at a rate that's appropriate for one's level of income, without dozens of tax loopholes geared towards helping the wealthy shirk their tax responsibilities, to help fund programs that help society as a whole, aimed at those in need, is not GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY.

That's your perception and that's fine. As a small business owner, I feel that I pay more than my fair share (in taxes, health insurance premiums, etc.). When you've worked hard to earn that money, yes, in some cases it feels like I'm giving it away. And before anyone starts preaching about funding programs that help society/charitable giving, I donate a fairly large portion of money to a select group of charities every year. I would prefer that I pick and choose where/how my money is used as opposed to being forced to participate in wasteful (government) spending like Obamacare....

 

[momhappy]

wealth does not equal hard work in all instances.
in some instances it does equal being born into the correct family and/or class.
and I don't call investing and making $ off people the way Enron did [as well as other corporations] "hard work".
nor do I call cheating the system by using the system to store one's wealth off shore hard work.
then there is that whole issue of derivatives.......

for some reason those with wealth think they did it on their own and w/o the help of anyone else much less the government rules that favor them. for some reason they think that helping others is taking something away from them. for some reason they do think they did work harder than the other person....and in some cases maybe they did. but in many cases they did not.

if in 2013 we can't find it in our hearts and in our wallets to support our society for the betterment of all then I fear we may one day go the way of the French Revolution which saw a lot of wealthy heads roll.

I don't think it's fair to say that in "many" cases, a wealthy person did not work hard for their wealth. Also, I certainly don't think that I earned my wealth (if you could call it that - again, I do not consider myself to be a very wealthy person) all on my own. Clearly, most of us are smart enough to understand that there are circumstances that have more favorable outcomes than others.
Again, I think that most of us can agree on the betterment of society, but the beef I have is in the ways in which we are forced to participate. I would have no issue paying more for programs, systems, etc. that actually work.
Anyways, we could go back and forth all day long about who should/should not pay for what. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because when the government asks me to pay, I pay. Period.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

This thread makes me want to bang my head against the wall. But I will refrain from doing so because of my high deductible and co-pay at the hospital.

Beacon understands the economic impact more than anyone else here. Just wait and see. System is broken and the ACA is a bandaid that won't fix it by any stretch of the imagination. I predict there will be as many or more people uninsured next year.

 

[ruby59]

That's your perception and that's fine. As a small business owner, I feel that I pay more than my fair share (in taxes, health insurance premiums, etc.). When you've worked hard to earn that money, yes, in some cases it feels like I'm giving it away. And before anyone starts preaching about funding programs that help society/charitable giving, I donate a fairly large portion of money to a select group of charities every year. I would prefer that I pick and choose where/how my money is used as opposed to being forced to participate in wasteful (government) spending like Obamacare....[/quote]

My grandparents fled Poland and the Nazis. They came here with nothing, not even their correct last name. Somehow, on Ellis Island it got shortened, and they accepted it. They could not read or write in their native language, never mind English. They worked hard, lived extremely frugal, (lived in a 3rd floor walk up cold water apartment) but saved every penny they could. My grandfather eventually saved enough to start a small business. My grandmother helped on the weekends and eventually so did the children. Education was a must. Their children studied hard while their parents went to evening classes and eventually became citizens of the US. It has been easier for each generation in our family, but we were all taught to improve upon it as we all made our own way. The hardwork has to start somewhere. And that is the problem. Many people today do not have that same work ethic or are willing to sacrifice cable TV or expensive cellphones. I do not mind helping people, but when are people going to start taking personal responsibility?

I mentioned my son in a previous post. Our state is not recovering as fast as the rest of the country. He did not sit by waiting for someone to hand him anything. He works in a neighboring state which adds an additional 3 hours to his day. So why should he have to subsidize someone who would rather sit back and do nothing?

 

[msop04]

That's your perception and that's fine. As a small business owner, I feel that I pay more than my fair share (in taxes, health insurance premiums, etc.). When you've worked hard to earn that money, yes, in some cases it feels like I'm giving it away. And before anyone starts preaching about funding programs that help society/charitable giving, I donate a fairly large portion of money to a select group of charities every year. I would prefer that I pick and choose where/how my money is used as opposed to being forced to participate in wasteful(government) spending like Obamacare....

This.

 

[ericad]

That's your perception and that's fine. As a small business owner, I feel that I pay more than my fair share (in taxes, health insurance premiums, etc.). When you've worked hard to earn that money, yes, in some cases it feels like I'm giving it away. And before anyone starts preaching about funding programs that help society/charitable giving, I donate a fairly large portion of money to a select group of charities every year. I would prefer that I pick and choose where/how my money is used as opposed to being forced to participate in wasteful (government) spending like Obamacare....

Education was a must.

So why should he have to subsidize someone who would rather sit back and do nothing?[/quote]

Do you mean the free socialized public education that every person is able to utilize, and which is paid for by tax revenue?

And do you actually believe that the purpose of ACA is to give free benefits to the small proportion of people who abuse the welfare system, and that the wealthy are paying for it?

ACA is designed to benefit tens of millions of uninsured, many of whom are working at jobs that don't provide any medical benefits at all. It protects each and every one of us from discrimination for preexisting conditions, and it opens up a marketplace for every single person to be able to purchase health insurance.

I believe that the near term result will be carriers jacking up prices because they can. But eventually competition will ensue and prices will come back down. If we're angry about increased premiums, we should be pissed at the corporate insurance carriers, or pissed at the language of ACA itself because it doesn't include pricing regulation. But to be pissed off at the poor? Really?