2014 Health Insurance Premiums - Ouch!

[momhappy]

I think there is a difference between wealthy and SUPER wealthy. Like those who earn tens of thousands of dollars off of interest in just a few hours-to the point where they could give away 90% of their wealth and still live far more comfortably than many of us would ever dare to dream.

A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to. I'm talking about the mulch-billionares and even (hundreds) millionaires. Sure they worked hard for their money (and I'm not saying they should have to give it away or share it) but how many of those people are rich bc of slave labor or ripping off the little guys (hedge fund fraud comes to mind) and still walk away with their huge bonuses while not giving their employees raises/etc?

To be honest, I don't think it matters how someone earns their money. I may not agree with the circumstances under which someone earns their income, but at the end of the day, it's still their money and it's still not fair to expect the to give it away.

 

[momhappy]

I think there is a difference between wealthy and SUPER wealthy. Like those who earn tens of thousands of dollars off of interest in just a few hours-to the point where they could give away 90% of their wealth and still live far more comfortably than many of us would ever dare to dream.

A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to. I'm talking about the mulch-billionares and even (hundreds) millionaires. Sure they worked hard for their money (and I'm not saying they should have to give it away or share it) but how many of those people are rich bc of slave labor or ripping off the little guys (hedge fund fraud comes to mind) and still walk away with their huge bonuses while not giving their employees raises/etc?

To be honest, I don't think it matters how someone earns their money. I may not agree with the circumstances under which someone earns their income, but at the end of the day, it's still their money and it's not fair to expect them to give it away.

 

[makhro82]

Where does this pervasive thought that if you work hard, you succeed - and if you're poor it's because you haven't worked hard, come from? There are millions of people in the States who have worked hard, 2 jobs, night shifts, their whole bloody lives and still struggle to get their children a new pair of shoes. They didn't have parents to pay their way through a skyrocketing tertiary education system, so what, they aren't contributing enough to deserve access to medical care?

There are not two clearly defined populations: those who work and deserve everything vs those who don't do anything, and thus do not. The great majority of the real world falls in other categories. At the end of the day, many individuals are, by default, in their category due to their 'lot in life.' If we're going with these two categories, and nothing else in between - it takes extreme intervention to cause a child born in the ghetto to reach acceptable levels of 'worth' as defined in this thread, and extreme intervention to cause a silver-spooned trust fund baby to NOT fall into that same level of worth. Why is that trust fund baby able to pay lawyers to scheme up tax loopholes to fraudulently retain tens of thousands of dollars, to fund his Mediterranean holidays of debauchery...but the ghetto girl can't consider going to the ER with a terrible UTI for fear of the bill? Her janitorial job doesn't offer health care, she doesn't make enough to pay the skyrocketing premiums of insurance companies (the executives of which are parents to those trust fund babies currently drinking their weight in Dom in Cannes), so the alternative is to what? Drink lots of cranberry juice and hope her kidney function isn't irreversibly damaged due to the scarring she'll suffer?

Life is not black and white, the deserving vs the non. I fear for humanity without empathy.

Thank you JustGinger. Though I was able to get scholarships to a great school it didn't change my socio-economic status, how people perceived me, or how poor I became when my parents got sick. That was exactly the situation I was in. Working, going to school, and with no insurance. Thought that I would get better. That bladder infection did get to my kidneys and did scar them and I got a nice bill on top of it and it wasn't for my lack of "trying".

 

[justginger]

Where does this pervasive thought that if you work hard, you succeed - and if you're poor it's because you haven't worked hard, come from? There are millions of people in the States who have worked hard, 2 jobs, night shifts, their whole bloody lives and still struggle to get their children a new pair of shoes. They didn't have parents to pay their way through a skyrocketing tertiary education system, so what, they aren't contributing enough to deserve access to medical care?

There are not two clearly defined populations: those who work and deserve everything vs those who don't do anything, and thus do not. The great majority of the real world falls in other categories. At the end of the day, many individuals are, by default, in their category due to their 'lot in life.' If we're going with these two categories, and nothing else in between - it takes extreme intervention to cause a child born in the ghetto to reach acceptable levels of 'worth' as defined in this thread, and extreme intervention to cause a silver-spooned trust fund baby to NOT fall into that same level of worth. Why is that trust fund baby able to pay lawyers to scheme up tax loopholes to fraudulently retain tens of thousands of dollars, to fund his Mediterranean holidays of debauchery...but the ghetto girl can't consider going to the ER with a terrible UTI for fear of the bill? Her janitorial job doesn't offer health care, she doesn't make enough to pay the skyrocketing premiums of insurance companies (the executives of which are parents to those trust fund babies currently drinking their weight in Dom in Cannes), so the alternative is to what? Drink lots of cranberry juice and hope her kidney function isn't irreversibly damaged due to the scarring she'll suffer?

Life is not black and white, the deserving vs the non. I fear for humanity without empathy.

Thank you JustGinger. Though I was able to get scholarships to a great school it didn't change my socio-economic status, how people perceived me, or how poor I became when my parents got sick. That was exactly the situation I was in. Working, going to school, and with no insurance. Thought that I would get better. That bladder infection did get to my kidneys and did scar them and I got a nice bill on top of it and it wasn't for my lack of "trying".

Makhro, I previously removed myself from this thread so didn't read your story. I hope you didn't feel I was targeting you or calling you 'ghetto.' I am currently doing renal disorders in my studies, and have a large test on Tuesday that I was up late studying for. That was the medical information fresh in my mind, and the source of a random example I picked. I am very sorry this actually did occur to you IRL - it goes to show how likely of a scenario it truly is.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="momhappy|1380839832|

Yes, you fulfill the "American Dream," work your a** off, and then you're judged for it based on the kind of car you drive....
I wish you and your husband the best of luck on the new business - it's not easy, but I hope that you succeed [/quote]



momhappy...you should be ashamed of yourself for driving a Mercedes , b/c I couldn't afford one...

 

[makhro82]

No worries, Just Ginger. I didn't think that at all.

 

[JewelFreak]

There are millions of people in the States who have worked hard, 2 jobs, night shifts, their whole bloody lives and still struggle to get their children a new pair of shoes.

Maybe we expect too much. Generation after generation, parents worked like that to provide their kids a better life than they had, not expecting to strike it rich themselves. Because they were not forced to give their labor or income to an aristocracy or dictator, immigrants have flocked here since before the country was born. So that their children had the chance to achieve. Every person who works long hours doesn't get rich -- that's been and always will be true. Even so, they found dignity in taking care of themselves, on any level. We now have a system where we work 4 to 5 months/year for our aristocracy -- the pres, congress, staff, and the buddies to whom they hand the bennies we earned. All in the name of "helping the _____ (fill in the blank: poor, middle class, women, blah blah).

Ben Franklin said, "The Constitution guarantees only the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

And Lincoln defined slavery this way: "You work and toil and earn the bread and I will eat it." That sounds an awful lot like what we're getting, what other countries have. Slavery is not always on plantations.

--- Laurie

 

[msop04]

I remember sitting in my freshman English class and someone telling me I was admitted to my college because of Affirmative-Action. Why? Because I'm Black? Because I am woman? Or could it have been my competitive test scores or attending a top prep school? Or when I schedule appointments with my clients over the phone and I turn out to be "different" than they expected and they move their business to another adviser. I *try* very hard but there are just some things that you can't always overcome such as gender, race, sex, class, income, etc. No everyone is not meant to be wealthy but no child in America should be going hungry. No person should be uninsured. And believe it or not everyone does not have the freedom to try. Your America seems to be a lot different than mine.

That is unfortunate you have experienced this... discrimination is wrong, and I don't think anyone would argue with that. I have seen this type of thing happen too. My very best friend tried to get into pharmacy school for 3 years and it never happened. It wasn't because she didn't make the grade or wasn't totally qualified. Like you, she felt she was discriminated against because the school had to fill so many spots with a certain percentage of non-Caucasian students... she is Caucasian. I'm not sure about the 3rd year she applied but I know that there were several non-Caucasian students that didn't begin to have her grades (or her positive, infectious personality for that matter). But that's the way it goes, and she accepted that. However, she did have the right to try. She decided that another profession would be a better idea after not getting in for so long, but that was a decision that she made for herself and her family. And if it had been her choice to keep applying each year for the next five years or more, no one could take away her right to try.

Just because you try doesn't guarantee success. Nothing is guaranteed. So, I guess I don't understand what you mean by some not having the freedom to try.

 

[makhro82]

There are millions of people in the States who have worked hard, 2 jobs, night shifts, their whole bloody lives and still struggle to get their children a new pair of shoes.

Maybe we expect too much. Generation after generation, parents worked like that to provide their kids a better life than they had, not expecting to strike it rich themselves. Because they were not forced to give their labor or income to an aristocracy or dictator, immigrants have flocked here since before the country was born. So that their children had the chance to achieve. Every person who works long hours doesn't get rich -- that's been and always will be true. Even so, they found dignity in taking care of themselves, on any level. We now have a system where we work 4 to 5 months/year for our aristocracy -- the pres, congress, staff, and the buddies to whom they hand the bennies we earned. All in the name of "helping the _____ (fill in the blank: poor, middle class, women, blah blah).

Ben Franklin said, "The Constitution guarantees only the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

And Lincoln defined slavery this way: "You work and toil and earn the bread and I will eat it." That sounds an awful lot like what we're getting, what other countries have. Slavery is not always on plantations.

--- Laurie

They flock to this country because of a perpetuated myth. When they get here their realities are not always that (if you don't believe that do some research into the struggles of immigrants). And there's no dignity in working long, hard hours and not being able to provide the bare necessities.

And really with the slavery? There is no comparison.

 

[vintagelover229]

I think there is a difference between wealthy and SUPER wealthy. Like those who earn tens of thousands of dollars off of interest in just a few hours-to the point where they could give away 90% of their wealth and still live far more comfortably than many of us would ever dare to dream.

A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to. I'm talking about the mulch-billionares and even (hundreds) millionaires. Sure they worked hard for their money (and I'm not saying they should have to give it away or share it) but how many of those people are rich bc of slave labor or ripping off the little guys (hedge fund fraud comes to mind) and still walk away with their huge bonuses while not giving their employees raises/etc?

To be honest, I don't think it matters how someone earns their money. I may not agree with the circumstances under which someone earns their income, but at the end of the day, it's still their money and it's still not fair to expect the to give it away.

I respectfully disagree: I DO think it matters HOW one earns their money. People don't like blood diamonds because of the horrible labour conditions so much so that they go out of their way to be as certain as possible to not buy them.

If someone is getting rich on slave labour in China (I do my best to by locally made products when possible) I think we have a responsibility to do our part in making certain this doesn't happen. I realize this is an ideal world concept but when your talking about the working conditions (not to mention almost nothing pay) all so they have have higher profit margins so they can get MORE wealthy and make MORE money on top of the PILES they already have-there is issues.

 

[justginger]

There are millions of people in the States who have worked hard, 2 jobs, night shifts, their whole bloody lives and still struggle to get their children a new pair of shoes.

Maybe we expect too much. Generation after generation, parents worked like that to provide their kids a better life than they had, not expecting to strike it rich themselves. Because they were not forced to give their labor or income to an aristocracy or dictator, immigrants have flocked here since before the country was born. So that their children had the chance to achieve. Every person who works long hours doesn't get rich -- that's been and always will be true. Even so, they found dignity in taking care of themselves, on any level. We now have a system where we work 4 to 5 months/year for our aristocracy -- the pres, congress, staff, and the buddies to whom they hand the bennies we earned. All in the name of "helping the _____ (fill in the blank: poor, middle class, women, blah blah).

Ben Franklin said, "The Constitution guarantees only the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

And Lincoln defined slavery this way: "You work and toil and earn the bread and I will eat it." That sounds an awful lot like what we're getting, what other countries have. Slavery is not always on plantations.

--- Laurie

What other countries have, by all accounts, are happy, healthy populations that spend a significantly smaller percentage of their individual incomes, and GDP, on health. It's ludicrous to compare that to any form of slavery, absolutely non-sensical. Slavery is being in a giant financial pit with zero medical options simply for being born to the wrong parents, and therefore experiencing a poor quality of a shorter life. Look at the stats - that's the States right now.

 

[makhro82]

I remember sitting in my freshman English class and someone telling me I was admitted to my college because of Affirmative-Action. Why? Because I'm Black? Because I am woman? Or could it have been my competitive test scores or attending a top prep school? Or when I schedule appointments with my clients over the phone and I turn out to be "different" than they expected and they move their business to another adviser. I *try* very hard but there are just some things that you can't always overcome such as gender, race, sex, class, income, etc. No everyone is not meant to be wealthy but no child in America should be going hungry. No person should be uninsured. And believe it or not everyone does not have the freedom to try. Your America seems to be a lot different than mine.

That is unfortunate you have experienced this... discrimination is wrong, and I don't think anyone would argue with that. I have seen this type of thing happen too. My very best friend tried to get into pharmacy school for 3 years and it never happened. It wasn't because she didn't make the grade or wasn't totally qualified. Like you, she felt she was discriminated against because the school had to fill so many spots with a certain percentage of non-Caucasian students... she is Caucasian. I'm not sure about the 3rd year she applied but I know that there were several non-Caucasian students that didn't begin to have her grades (or her positive, infectious personality for that matter). But that's the way it goes, and she accepted that. However, she did have the right to try. She decided that another profession would be a better idea after not getting in for so long, but that was a decision that she made for herself and her family. And if it had been her choice to keep applying each year for the next five years or more, no one could take away her right to try.

Just because you try doesn't guarantee success. Nothing is guaranteed. So, I guess I don't understand what you mean by some not having the freedom to try.

And boom here comes that argument that AA action kept a White person out of their rightful place.You know statistically who the biggest benefactor of AA is, Caucasian females. Do I think it is right for a qualified applicant to get denied, definitely not. But like Obamacare, AA is a start (not a perfect one) in righting a history of wrongs. After literally years and years of systematic maltreatment do you really think that other groups will be able to "catch up" without some sort of assistance.

To be able to *try* you need to be qualified. To be qualified (in this case) you need to have extensive education. To get extensive education you need to qualify for it and be able to afford it. And the qualifications go on and on. So you tell me how a poor person, who probably goes to a poor school with poor textbooks is going to get qualified to *try*. Everything has a cause and effect. When lendors redlined certain neighborhoods how did their schools get the property tax revenues to run the schools? They don't. When you can't get a quality education, how do you get a quality degree or job? You can't. If you can't get a quality job, how do you get insurance? You can't. Cause and effect...

When you come from a place of privilege it is hard to recognize how truly fortunate you are or how difficult it is for the average person to really improve their station in life.

 

[msop04]

There are millions of people in the States who have worked hard, 2 jobs, night shifts, their whole bloody lives and still struggle to get their children a new pair of shoes.

Maybe we expect too much. Generation after generation, parents worked like that to provide their kids a better life than they had, not expecting to strike it rich themselves. Because they were not forced to give their labor or income to an aristocracy or dictator, immigrants have flocked here since before the country was born. So that their children had the chance to achieve. Every person who works long hours doesn't get rich -- that's been and always will be true. Even so, they found dignity in taking care of themselves, on any level. We now have a system where we work 4 to 5 months/year for our aristocracy -- the pres, congress, staff, and the buddies to whom they hand the bennies we earned. All in the name of "helping the _____ (fill in the blank: poor, middle class, women, blah blah).

Ben Franklin said, "The Constitution guarantees only the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

And Lincoln defined slavery this way: "You work and toil and earn the bread and I will eat it." That sounds an awful lot like what we're getting, what other countries have. Slavery is not always on plantations.

--- Laurie

This. ...and it seems to be going into this direction (bolded). Not slavery as we have been taught to think of it, but maybe a form of it??

 

[momhappy]

[quote="momhappy|1380839832|

Yes, you fulfill the "American Dream," work your a** off, and then you're judged for it based on the kind of car you drive....
I wish you and your husband the best of luck on the new business - it's not easy, but I hope that you succeed

momhappy...you should be ashamed of yourself for driving a Mercedes , b/c I couldn't afford one... [/quote]

I actually don't drive a Mercedes. My husband and I don't own a luxury car. We have an old SUV that has been paid off for several years and a Jeep. Obviously, we choose to spend our money elsewhere, which is what brought me to PS

 

[justginger]

In response to other counties being 'slaves': http://money.msn.com/health-and-life-insurance/global-medical-costs-how-the-us-stacks-up

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="JewelFreak|1380844201|3531747

Maybe we expect too much. Generation after generation, parents worked like that to provide their kids a better life than they had, not expecting to strike it rich themselves. Because they were not forced to give their labor or income to an aristocracy or dictator, immigrants have flocked here since before the country was born. So that their children had the chance to achieve. Every person who works long hours doesn't get rich -- that's been and always will be true. Even so, they found dignity in taking care of themselves, on any level. We now have a system where we work 4 to 5 months/year for our aristocracy -- the pres, congress, staff, and the buddies to whom they hand the bennies we earned. All in the name of "helping the _____ (fill in the blank: poor, middle class, women, blah blah).

--- Laurie[/quote]
my grandfather immigrated to the U.S. in the 20's and he survived w/o any hand out from the government b/c he work hard and saved every cent he earned, then eventually he saved enough money to open his own business after the war.

we immigrated to the U.S. in 1966 and soon as we step off the plane my grandfather made this statement..."this is the U.S.A. the greatest country on earth, if you got two hands and are willing to work you will never starve to death". I will NEVER forget that statement made by my grandfather which IMO still holds true today.

 

[makhro82]

[quote="JewelFreak|1380844201|3531747

Maybe we expect too much. Generation after generation, parents worked like that to provide their kids a better life than they had, not expecting to strike it rich themselves. Because they were not forced to give their labor or income to an aristocracy or dictator, immigrants have flocked here since before the country was born. So that their children had the chance to achieve. Every person who works long hours doesn't get rich -- that's been and always will be true. Even so, they found dignity in taking care of themselves, on any level. We now have a system where we work 4 to 5 months/year for our aristocracy -- the pres, congress, staff, and the buddies to whom they hand the bennies we earned. All in the name of "helping the _____ (fill in the blank: poor, middle class, women, blah blah).

--- Laurie

my grandfather immigrated to the U.S. in the 20's and he survived w/o any hand out from the government b/c he work hard and saved every cent he earned, then eventually he saved enough money to open his own business after the war.

we immigrated to the U.S. in 1966 and soon as we step off the plane my grandfather made this statement..."this is the U.S.A. the greatest country on earth, if you got two hands and are willing to work you will never starve to death". I will NEVER forget that statement made by my grandfather which IMO still holds true today.[/quote]


Where did your family immigrate from? And there's that bootstrap mentality. If so and so can ANYONE can. Not the case.

 

[SparkleD]

Yeah, two hands and you will never starve to death. Too bad two hands can't get you access to healthcare as well. That is how our system works now.

I'm privileged and grew up that way as well. The only difference between me and the homeless guy on the street is that I had well-to-do parents.

Life isn't fair and we as human beings need to provide basic necessities to those who have less than us. How do you expect people to become productive citizens if they don't have a fully belly, a warm/safe place to sleep, and a healthy body?

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="makhro82|1380847855|

my grandfather immigrated to the U.S. in the 20's and he survived w/o any hand out from the government b/c he work hard and saved every cent he earned, then eventually he saved enough money to open his own business after the war.

we immigrated to the U.S. in 1966 and soon as we step off the plane my grandfather made this statement..."this is the U.S.A. the greatest country on earth, if you got two hands and are willing to work you will never starve to death". I will NEVER forget that statement made by my grandfather which IMO still holds true today.[/quote]


Where did your family immigrate from? And there's that bootstrap mentality. If so and so can ANYONE can. Not the case.[/quote]

My grandfather immigrated from China in the 20's and we immigrated from Hong Kong in 1966.

 

[Beacon]

[/quote]Maybe we expect too much. Generation after generation, parents worked like that to provide their kids a better life than they had, not expecting to strike it rich themselves. Because they were not forced to give their labor or income to an aristocracy or dictator, immigrants have flocked here since before the country was born. So that their children had the chance to achieve. Every person who works long hours doesn't get rich -- that's been and always will be true. Even so, they found dignity in taking care of themselves, on any level. We now have a system where we work 4 to 5 months/year for our aristocracy -- the pres, congress, staff, and the buddies to whom they hand the bennies we earned. All in the name of "helping the _____ (fill in the blank: poor, middle class, women, blah blah).

Ben Franklin said, "The Constitution guarantees only the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

And Lincoln defined slavery this way: "You work and toil and earn the bread and I will eat it." That sounds an awful lot like what we're getting, what other countries have. Slavery is not always on plantations.

--- Laurie[/quote]

Jewel Freak you are awesome

 

[amc80]

The only difference between me and the homeless guy on the street is that I had well-to-do parents.

So had you not had rich parents you would be on the street! You have no personal drive or ambition? And every homeless person is in their situation because they were born into poverty? My brother and I grew up in the same household and environment. He's unemployed and has been close to homeless before. I tend to think we are in our individual situations due, mostly, to decisions we've made.

 

[SparkleD]

The only difference between me and the homeless guy on the street is that I had well-to-do parents.

So had you not had rich parents you would be on the street! You have no personal drive or ambition? And every homeless person is in their situation because they were born into poverty? My brother and I grew up in the same household and environment. He's unemployed and has been close to homeless before. I tend to think we are in our individual situations due, mostly, to decisions we've made.

The point of my comment was that I was fortunate to be born into a privileged life with aspects not available to all simply because my family had money. And quite frankly, without my parent's help, I wouldn't be in the same position I am in today. For instance, my husband would not have had the funds to start his now thriving, successful business because we wouldn't have had that extra cushion.

I was lucky to be given some additional tools in my box. Not everyone is so lucky and needs a lifting hand.

And to answer your question, I am ambitious as hell and competitive at work. But when it comes to helping my fellow mankind, you can find me alongside the masses working beside them and not against them.

 

[ericad]

I think there is a difference between wealthy and SUPER wealthy. Like those who earn tens of thousands of dollars off of interest in just a few hours-to the point where they could give away 90% of their wealth and still live far more comfortably than many of us would ever dare to dream.

A million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to. I'm talking about the mulch-billionares and even (hundreds) millionaires. Sure they worked hard for their money (and I'm not saying they should have to give it away or share it) but how many of those people are rich bc of slave labor or ripping off the little guys (hedge fund fraud comes to mind) and still walk away with their huge bonuses while not giving their employees raises/etc?

To be honest, I don't think it matters how someone earns their money. I may not agree with the circumstances under which someone earns their income, but at the end of the day, it's still their money and it's still not fair to expect the to give it away.

Paying taxes at a rate that's appropriate for one's level of income, without dozens of tax loopholes geared towards helping the wealthy shirk their tax responsibilities, to help fund programs that help society as a whole, aimed at those in need, is not GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY.

 

[ericad]

There are millions of people in the States who have worked hard, 2 jobs, night shifts, their whole bloody lives and still struggle to get their children a new pair of shoes.

Maybe we expect too much. Generation after generation, parents worked like that to provide their kids a better life than they had, not expecting to strike it rich themselves. Because they were not forced to give their labor or income to an aristocracy or dictator, immigrants have flocked here since before the country was born. So that their children had the chance to achieve. Every person who works long hours doesn't get rich -- that's been and always will be true. Even so, they found dignity in taking care of themselves, on any level. We now have a system where we work 4 to 5 months/year for our aristocracy -- the pres, congress, staff, and the buddies to whom they hand the bennies we earned. All in the name of "helping the _____ (fill in the blank: poor, middle class, women, blah blah).

Ben Franklin said, "The Constitution guarantees only the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

And Lincoln defined slavery this way: "You work and toil and earn the bread and I will eat it." That sounds an awful lot like what we're getting, what other countries have. Slavery is not always on plantations.

--- Laurie

Countries with universal healthcare are participating in slavery?

Wow.

 

[ericad]

There are millions of people in the States who have worked hard, 2 jobs, night shifts, their whole bloody lives and still struggle to get their children a new pair of shoes.

Maybe we expect too much. Generation after generation, parents worked like that to provide their kids a better life than they had, not expecting to strike it rich themselves. Because they were not forced to give their labor or income to an aristocracy or dictator, immigrants have flocked here since before the country was born. So that their children had the chance to achieve. Every person who works long hours doesn't get rich -- that's been and always will be true. Even so, they found dignity in taking care of themselves, on any level. We now have a system where we work 4 to 5 months/year for our aristocracy -- the pres, congress, staff, and the buddies to whom they hand the bennies we earned. All in the name of "helping the _____ (fill in the blank: poor, middle class, women, blah blah).

Ben Franklin said, "The Constitution guarantees only the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

And Lincoln defined slavery this way: "You work and toil and earn the bread and I will eat it." That sounds an awful lot like what we're getting, what other countries have. Slavery is not always on plantations.

--- Laurie

This. ...and it seems to be going into this direction (bolded). Not slavery as we have been taught to think of it, but maybe a form of it??

Sweet Jesus, I need to get off this thread before I have a stroke. Thank goodness I have great insurance.

 

[TooPatient]

The only difference between me and the homeless guy on the street is that I had well-to-do parents.

So had you not had rich parents you would be on the street! You have no personal drive or ambition? And every homeless person is in their situation because they were born into poverty? My brother and I grew up in the same household and environment. He's unemployed and has been close to homeless before. I tend to think we are in our individual situations due, mostly, to decisions we've made.

The point of my comment was that I was fortunate to be born into a privileged life with aspects not available to all simply because my family had money. And quite frankly, without my parent's help, I wouldn't be in the same position I am in today. For instance, my husband would not have had the funds to start his now thriving, successful business because we wouldn't have had that extra cushion.

I was lucky to be given some additional tools in my box. Not everyone is so lucky and needs a lifting hand.

And to answer your question, I am ambitious as hell and competitive at work. But when it comes to helping my fellow mankind, you can find me alongside the masses working beside them and not against them.

Should the helping hand come at the expense of others? Would it have been okay if the government took the "extra" money your parents used to give you an advantage and gave it to someone else?

Where would you be today without that extra help from your parents?
Where would that leave your kids?


In case there is any doubt, I am ALL for helping others. We donate as much as we possibly can and do so carefully to maximize benefit. I took several bags of school supplies to different locations this year to help foster children and those whose families can't afford.
BUT helping others in the short run at the long term expense of others is not the way to do it.

Sparkle -- Do you pay taxes? Do you donate to charities? Could you pay as much in taxes or donate as much as you do if your parents hadn't been able to give you that extra help?

 

[makhro82]

There are millions of people in the States who have worked hard, 2 jobs, night shifts, their whole bloody lives and still struggle to get their children a new pair of shoes.

Maybe we expect too much. Generation after generation, parents worked like that to provide their kids a better life than they had, not expecting to strike it rich themselves. Because they were not forced to give their labor or income to an aristocracy or dictator, immigrants have flocked here since before the country was born. So that their children had the chance to achieve. Every person who works long hours doesn't get rich -- that's been and always will be true. Even so, they found dignity in taking care of themselves, on any level. We now have a system where we work 4 to 5 months/year for our aristocracy -- the pres, congress, staff, and the buddies to whom they hand the bennies we earned. All in the name of "helping the _____ (fill in the blank: poor, middle class, women, blah blah).

Ben Franklin said, "The Constitution guarantees only the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

And Lincoln defined slavery this way: "You work and toil and earn the bread and I will eat it." That sounds an awful lot like what we're getting, what other countries have. Slavery is not always on plantations.

--- Laurie

This. ...and it seems to be going into this direction (bolded). Not slavery as we have been taught to think of it, but maybe a form of it??

Sweet Jesus, I need to get off this thread before I have a stroke. Thank goodness I have great insurance.

Agreed. I am off of here. Between this and the Hobby Lobby I seriously can't deal. Some people just don't get it and there's no point in wasting my time or theirs.

 

[ericad]

There are millions of people in the States who have worked hard, 2 jobs, night shifts, their whole bloody lives and still struggle to get their children a new pair of shoes.

Maybe we expect too much. Generation after generation, parents worked like that to provide their kids a better life than they had, not expecting to strike it rich themselves. Because they were not forced to give their labor or income to an aristocracy or dictator, immigrants have flocked here since before the country was born. So that their children had the chance to achieve. Every person who works long hours doesn't get rich -- that's been and always will be true. Even so, they found dignity in taking care of themselves, on any level. We now have a system where we work 4 to 5 months/year for our aristocracy -- the pres, congress, staff, and the buddies to whom they hand the bennies we earned. All in the name of "helping the _____ (fill in the blank: poor, middle class, women, blah blah).

Ben Franklin said, "The Constitution guarantees only the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

And Lincoln defined slavery this way: "You work and toil and earn the bread and I will eat it." That sounds an awful lot like what we're getting, what other countries have. Slavery is not always on plantations.

--- Laurie

This. ...and it seems to be going into this direction (bolded). Not slavery as we have been taught to think of it, but maybe a form of it??

Sweet Jesus, I need to get off this thread before I have a stroke. Thank goodness I have great insurance.

Agreed. I am off of here. Between this and the Hobby Lobby I seriously can't deal. Some people just don't get it and there's no point in wasting my time or theirs.

It's also possible that people make such inflammatory statements in order to end the conversation, because the opposition will just shake their heads and walk away. Maybe I won't leave the thread after all.

I haven't been on the hobby lobby thread. That's just what I need, lol.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ericad|1380858348|

It's also possible that people make such inflammatory statements in order to end the conversation, because the opposition will just shake their heads and walk away. Maybe I won't leave the thread after all.

[/quote]

calm down...even the best health insurance in the world can't stop you from getting an heart attack..

 

[movie zombie]

wealth does not equal hard work in all instances.
in some instances it does equal being born into the correct family and/or class.
and I don't call investing and making $ off people the way Enron did [as well as other corporations] "hard work".
nor do I call cheating the system by using the system to store one's wealth off shore hard work.
then there is that whole issue of derivatives.......

for some reason those with wealth think they did it on their own and w/o the help of anyone else much less the government rules that favor them. for some reason they think that helping others is taking something away from them. for some reason they do think they did work harder than the other person....and in some cases maybe they did. but in many cases they did not.

if in 2013 we can't find it in our hearts and in our wallets to support our society for the betterment of all then I fear we may one day go the way of the French Revolution which saw a lot of wealthy heads roll.