2014 Health Insurance Premiums - Ouch!

[SparkleD]

My family recently went through a traumatic event as we were caught without active health insurance. I just started a new job and my health insurance hadn't taken into effect. My cobra was not active at this point as my former company did not relay to BCBS that I had left the company. So truly, my family had no insurance.

I received a call from my nanny stating that my 1 1/2 year old child was being taken by ambulance to the hospital as he had a seizure. As we sat in the hospital, I was asked about my insurance multiple times. I explained the situation but I still technically had "no insurance". In the midst of my child being checked into the hospital and ultimately being admitted, I waited precariously for the hospital to tell us to leave or we had to be transferred since we had no insurance. It was an awful experience and everything ultimately worked out but as a concerned parent, the last thing you should worry about is whether or not you can afford treatment or being transferred to a public hospital. We developed a rapport with the hospital staff and the possibility of having to leave the staff because we didn't have insurance would have been/felt traumatic to say the very least.

I'm all for paying higher premiums to help others have access to affordable care. I can easily put a price on my belongings but I cannot put a price tag on the fear I felt that day I needed insurance and I had none.

 

[SB621]

I'm not sure if I should or shouldn't comment in this thread since I do not pay for healthcare currently, but I have in the past before I got married. As my Dh is active duty military we are covered under tricare. However I was raised in a family that did not have health insurance. My mother is famous for saying she hated us playing outside. Whenever we got hurt she pratically went into panic attacks wondering if we had to see a doctor or worse go to the hospital. One summer my brother had a horrible accident that required an airlift to a local hospital and he was there for 8 days. My parents declared bankruptcy as a result. While I need braces, shots, stuff that most children got and took for granite it was huge if my parents could provide any of that for us. So while you might not like paying extra in premiums I would gladly pay them to know that others don't have to go through what my family did. It was a constant struggle.

No one should have to live in this type of fear. I totally agree with you. I am by no means rich, but I believe in doing my part and sometimes more if it means I can help someone else.

Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh but I think the ppl who question Obamacare or outright dislike it pretty much never grew up knowing how devasting it could be to not have health insurance. Complain all you want, but it is reality and is happening. I guess I live in the mindset that money will come and go, but the chance to help another person out will define my character for the rest of my life.

 

[crown1]

..............

 

[msop04]

Quote: "Btw, 30% top rate tax seems astonishingly low to me!"


It would be! Who has it? In the US the top tax rate is 39.6 for the Federal tax. State tax is additional, if you live in California like me the state tax rate tops at 10.3%. Combined that is 49.9% marginal tax rate.

Add to this additional 2.9% for medicare and 6.3% of the first $113K you make for social security.

It's A LOT of tax.

Thanks for pointing this out, Beacon. I was referring to the Federal tax rates only. I don't think that people take the other taxes into consideration...

 

[msop04]

This whole situation is really making me sad. I see our country being drug down over something that really should not be happening. I can only speak of what I see but I do not see the need for all of this tearing apart the nation.

Where I live is not an affluent area of the country. There is high unemployment and not a lot of high paying jobs. The poor are mostly covered by medicaid and if you truly have no income the hospitals write most of the debt off. I do not address the truly poor as they are being taken care of.

I feel that if people paid for their doctor visits and used insurance for hospital stays and serious, life threatening situations it would go a long way in aleviating the situation. Expecting to have every little thing paid by insurance is not reasonable. If folks would pay those regular office calls and everyday prescriptions themselves it could probably lower the insurance premiums.

I have not been able to understand someone paying $1200 per month insurance premium so that it would pay for $150 two times a year. Most people do not need to be running to the doctor every month. We are betting against ourselves when we do this.

Fear is driving this bus. I know there are many sad stories to be told and I have great compassion for those people. I also know that this seems to be about politics and votes. Life is not fair, everyone is never going to be equal. Some have happy long lives and some live lives of sadness and sorrow, we will never be able to control everything. We can control ourselves and no one else, we need to learn that. I personally am at the point where i do not want to live a life with all of this discord and strife.

One side attacking another for who they are or what they believe. Why can we not just live and let live. Do we have to try to attack each other when we do not think alike? I recently lost the dearest person in the world to me, mostly due to doctor error. That is the highest price I feel one can pay. I am not suing anyone. I am suffering a deep loss in silence and feeling as if I am losing my mind. The actual living of life is more important than spending one's life worrying about what might happen. Reasonable amounts of health care are necessary we have gone overboard in making it everything.

I never thought I would live to see the day when medical care would turn into big business instead of a calling to help someone in need. How have we come to the point that caring for our ill and hurting people has become a big political fight. I am appalled. I feel that this is a big xxxxxxx match. Flame me if you will but I only hope and pray for reason and to live a simple life. It would be enough for me, I do not have to win.

I tend to agree with your thinking, crown... and I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[perry]

My family recently went through a traumatic event as we were caught without active health insurance. I just started a new job and my health insurance hadn't taken into effect. My cobra was not active at this point as my former company did not relay to BCBS that I had left the company. So truly, my family had no insurance....
....
I'm all for paying higher premiums to help others have access to affordable care. I can easily put a price on my belongings but I cannot put a price tag on the fear I felt that day I needed insurance and I had none.

Actually its quite easy to make a judgment for many people. Lets see... we have to pay and extra $50, $100, $200,... $500, etc per month (it will vary for different people). How does it affect people to have to come up with it.

Lets see what I can cut (typical choices some others have).

1) Get rid of cable TV - but I don't have cable TV.
2) Go to a lower cost internet access plan (my current plan is $20/month - and I can only reduce it by going to dial up. Of course I do not get the best internet speeds with a $20 / month plan so I don't watch many videos).
3) Cut back on eating out. With all my food allergies I eat out perhaps once every 3 months (finding resturants its safe to eat in is not easy).
4) Cut back on movies of shows. We have been to 1 movie this year. We do have a $75/year Family Milwaukee Art Museum membership - so we go somewhat often (and go to several other "free" museums as well).
5) Reduce my charitable giving. I did that (substantially so) when I married Princess Zhanna.

You know... I actually live on a pretty austere budget.

So, I can cut back on heat in the winter (Princess already thinks the house is too cold), AC in the summer (Princess thinks I don't have enough AC). My heating / AC Utilities are reasonable and better than average for the age of the house. I can probably save $50/ month here - and live in a noticeably uncomfortable house.

Next, we can cut back on Auto Gas and food. That is appetizing.

We can cut back on insurance coverage; and maybe not even carry health insurance at all as we cannot see how to fund it.

---
When the added cost of those extra premiums to support others insurance starts to noticeably affect base family finances it's real easy to see when the balance has tipped too far.

Edited to add: Not saying I am there yet (I do not yet know my 2014 premiums so I don't know - but I do not have a lot of room) - but, many people are.

Perry

 

[ericad]

[warning, I'm about to sound super bitter with this next bit, but it's totally true]
It pains me to see my friends posting on FB with this "woe is me" attitude that their premiums are going up by a few hundred dollars a month and it's so scandalous and it's all Obama's fault. Oh really? Because just last month I enjoyed seeing the pics you posted of your family on their 3rd 5-star vacation of the year (complete with pool in background and umbrella drink in hand), and wasn't that a $100k Mercedes you just bought over the summer, with which you drive your children to private school? It seems that the people complaining the loudest, in my circle, are the ones who can well afford any increase. Of course there will be middle-class families who are walking that paycheck to paycheck line, who will need to pay more on top of their student loans and mortgages and other necessary expenses. And for them I do feel real sympathy because there ARE still many flaws in the current health care reform. But, IMO, we're going in the right direction.

I don't see anything wrong with that as long as they didn't steal the money.

There's nothing wrong with wealth. My point was that people are online claiming that their increased premiums are a big burden, but they forget that they have been posting about their wealth ad nauseum. They cry "How can we afford the extra $200" and then post pics of the new $100k car. There are people who experience true hardship due to medical expenses (be it care, premiums, etc.) and that's what I find distasteful.

Paying more does suck, for everyone, especially knowing that the funds are lining corporate pockets. This isn't the reform plan I wanted, that's for sure. But it's what we have to work with right now, and I'm willing to give it a try for a few years before I shoot it down.

 

[TooPatient]

My family recently went through a traumatic event as we were caught without active health insurance. I just started a new job and my health insurance hadn't taken into effect. My cobra was not active at this point as my former company did not relay to BCBS that I had left the company. So truly, my family had no insurance....
....
I'm all for paying higher premiums to help others have access to affordable care. I can easily put a price on my belongings but I cannot put a price tag on the fear I felt that day I needed insurance and I had none.

Actually its quite easy to make a judgment for many people. Lets see... we have to pay and extra $50, $100, $200,... $500, etc per month (it will vary for different people). How does it affect people to have to come up with it.

Lets see what I can cut (typical choices some others have).

1) Get rid of cable TV - but I don't have cable TV.
2) Go to a lower cost internet access plan (my current plan is $20/month - and I can only reduce it by going to dial up. Of course I do not get the best internet speeds with a $20 / month plan so I don't watch many videos).
3) Cut back on eating out. With all my food allergies I eat out perhaps once every 3 months (finding resturants its safe to eat in is not easy).
4) Cut back on movies of shows. We have been to 1 movie this year. We do have a $75/year Family Milwaukee Art Museum membership - so we go somewhat often (and go to several other "free" museums as well).
5) Reduce my charitable giving. I did that (substantially so) when I married Princess Zhanna.

You know... I actually live on a pretty austere budget.

So, I can cut back on heat in the winter (Princess already thinks the house is too cold), AC in the summer (Princess thinks I don't have enough AC). My heating / AC Utilities are reasonable and better than average for the age of the house. I can probably save $50/ month here - and live in a noticeably uncomfortable house.

Next, we can cut back on Auto Gas and food. That is appetizing.

We can cut back on insurance coverage; and maybe not even carry health insurance at all as we cannot see how to fund it.

---
When the added cost of those extra premiums to support others insurance starts to noticeably affect base family finances it's real easy to see when the balance has tipped too far.

Edited to add: Not saying I am there yet (I do not yet know my 2014 premiums so I don't know - but I do not have a lot of room) - but, many people are.
Perry

This.

I never had braces and know what it is like to live without insurance (did it for 10 years -- including car accidents requiring emergency room visits). I help where I can so others don't have to suffer. BUT there is only so much I can help and I am the best judge of my own budget.

 

[Beacon]

Perry, I hope it does not come to that for you.

Judging from what I've read on this thread, insurance premium costs are a very significant burden for many and getting worse quick. These are not small charges, they are large and a modest family will be affected by them. This means the economy is going to suffer as people reduce other expenditures to accommodate the increased insurance charges. Obviously this will come from the most discretionary areas first, like restaurants, retail, entertainment.

The wealthy can complain, I'm not worried about them much. But a family of four making say, 70K is going to feel this, very hard.

 

[rainwood]

I suspect most people participating in this discussion aren't likely to change their views, but thought I'd mention a few interesting facts that seemed to have been missed.

The Affordable Care Act is NOT something crafted by the Democrats under Obama but is actually resurrected Republican legislation from the 1990's go-round on health care. It was a compromise proposed by the Republicans in an effort to head off the movement for a single payer type of health care system. The Democrats thought it didn't go far enough so chose not to proceed with it. The Democrats revived it because of its Republican lineage to finally get something passed. But by then, the Repubs had swung so far to the right, they didn't even recognize their own work product. The GOP seems to have forgotten that part of the legislative history.

Part of the problem with health care and insurance in the U.S. is the multitude of plans and the cost of having to administer all of that. Ask any doctor who runs his or her own practice about how many admin staff it takes to handle all the various insurance programs and their details, quirks, and blind spots. It's often more than the health care side of the staff. All the various insurance companies have comparable numbers of staff to handle all the different providers and their codes and quirks and mistakes. Until you've had a serious illness (my husband has been dealing with cancer for almost 20 years), you have no idea what a hassle it is for everyone on the insurance side - providers, insurance companies and patients. It's almost been a full-time job for my DH sometimes to sort through the medical bills and figure out what's going on. Lots of mistakes get made on all sides and we deal with top-notch medical providers and have a good insurance program. It's been an eye-opening nightmare.

Prescription drugs cost more in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world because every other developed country in the West has a single payer system where the government can negotiate a better rate. The pharmaceutical companies have to agree or lose an entire country as a market. That's why drugs cost less in Canada. The U.S. doesn't have that system so no one has the bargaining strength to get those same rates. The biggest insurers get a break, but not as much, and the smaller insurers probably don't get much. Who pays the most? The uninsured (either because they don't have insurance or because their insurance doesn't cover the drug). Because we don't have a government negotiating better rates for us, U.S. patients and their insurers pay the vast majority of the R & D for every drug introduced. The same thing applies to medical procedures, devices and equipment.

So if you're mad that your premiums are going up and your coverage is going down, blame it on the crazy patchwork quilt of health care that we've managed to cobble together where most of it is profit-driven and no one has to negotiate for or substantiate their costs. No one in the rest of the world envies how we handle payment for health care in this country. No one. They're probably glad we have a system that makes us bear the vast majority of the cost for every medical development or new drug on the planet. It certainly makes health care cheaper for everyone outside the U.S.

 

[Dancing Fire]

+1, Perry. To those who "don't mind paying more taxes" so everyone can have good medical care, you'll be pleasantly surpised. You will pay more taxes, and more & more as this gorilla goes broke. And you won't get good medical care with it.

Even if every eligible person joined it, the gov't's own estimate is that 30 MILLION PEOPLE will still not be insured.

--- Laurie

Yeah, Perry has some good points and so do you - "this gorilla goes broke" LOL. It's sad and potentially it's true.

But Obama was on TV this afternoon and said, "there are 20 million people without health insurance." So how can there be 30 million without, post ACA? As reference, there are about 316 million people here in the US.

b/c the so called "Affordable Care Act" will become so unaffordable to others.

 

[ericad]

Does anyone think that premiums will improve in a year or two once the health exchange free market gets going? Isn't it possible that pissed off carriers are jacking up prices right now because they can, but will eventually come back down once they start losing business to their competitors? Is that overly optimistic, lol?

 

[Beacon]

That is possible and it would be good if it works out like that. Alternatively there may be new laws mitigating expenses.

One thing for sure, this is hitting people and hard. People are being squeezed and they will demand change. I doubt many expected this result when they voted for ACA.

It's a significant event for the economy to imagine people having a sudden reduction in purchasing power. The recovery we are in is fragile and slow and I wonder if this is enough to flatten it right out.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Does anyone think that premiums will improve in a year or two once the health exchange free market gets going? Isn't it possible that pissed off carriers are jacking up prices right now because they can, but will eventually come back down once they start losing business to their competitors? Is that overly optimistic, lol?

Yes, you can stop dreaming ..

 

[rainwood]

That is possible and it would be good if it works out like that. Alternatively there may be new laws mitigating expenses.

One thing for sure, this is hitting people and hard. People are being squeezed and they will demand change. I doubt many expected this result when they voted for ACA.

It's a significant event for the economy to imagine people having a sudden reduction in purchasing power. The recovery we are in is fragile and slow and I wonder if this is enough to flatten it right out.

I don't know if the ACA will do that, but the government shutdown and the potential for a default on government-issued debt sure is. The ACA will be a drop in the bucket if the most powerful economy in the world comes to a screeching halt and defaults on its debt.

 

[Beacon]

we won't default. Count on it.

The shutdown is stupid and hopefully it will end soon. As soon as it ends it will be quickly forgotten.

 

[makhro82]

To me it really comes down to a group of privileged people (whether they are able to acknowledge or recognize that privilege or not) not being able to to understand and empathize with the plight of a lot of other Americans and the belief that if I help "those" people just a little bit my own wealth will start to dissipate.

I get it premiums went up for a lot of people and I understand that some people will truly be impacted by this. For some it doesn't mean that they don't get the new Mercedes or a bigger rock, but that they have to cut back in a meaningful way. I'm sorry I can't sympathize with those who complain because they can't get more but I can understand those who will now have even less.

 

[Dancing Fire]

we won't default. Count on it.

The shutdown is stupid and hopefully it will end soon. As soon as it ends it will be quickly forgotten.

may not be a bad idea. We can get rid of the $17 trillion debt...

 

[Beacon]

Naughty DF. That would bury us. For all the talk about how China owns our debt, they only have 8-9% of it. The majority is owned by US entities. If we default on it we get the ultimate financial crisis. It won't happen.

It's a basic bet: Obama care will run negative 1.1 trillion over 10 years. It' a lot, but if we default on our overall debt, as you mention 17 trillion all at onnce, it is an asymmetric risk trade off and it won't happen. They'll raise the debt ceiling and pay.

 

[movie zombie]

ericad, insurers have been jacking up prices for years. this is just the latest. and tying it to the ACA is their wet dream because everyone blames the higher cost on that and not the corporate greed.

 

[makhro82]

ericad, insurers have been jacking up prices for years. this is just the latest. and tying it to the ACA is their wet dream because everyone blames the higher cost on that and not the corporate greed.

Yep! Because my previous employer jacked the prices way up and decreased the actually benefits. At my current employer they took away our option for the biggest insurer (Kaiser) and gave us different options. At first I hated it, but then I realized a) I still have insurance so I am already better off than a lot of people and b) With the MRA I really didn't pay much OOP outside of my premiums.

 

[perry]

I suspect most people participating in this discussion aren't likely to change their views, but thought I'd mention a few interesting facts that seemed to have been missed.

The Affordable Care Act is NOT something crafted by the Democrats under Obama but is actually resurrected Republican legislation from the 1990's go-round on health care. It was a compromise proposed by the Republicans in an effort to head off the movement for a single payer type of health care system. The Democrats thought it didn't go far enough so chose not to proceed with it. The Democrats revived it because of its Republican lineage to finally get something passed. But by then, the Repubs had swung so far to the right, they didn't even recognize their own work product. The GOP seems to have forgotten that part of the legislative history.

....

Sorry; I do not think you can find a single significant fact to back this claim up.

The health care debate of the 1990's was the 1993 Clinton Health Care Plan - which went down in flames from many directions; and essentially ended any debate at all for a decade.

While it is true that there were dozens of other potential competing plans that were proposed by individuals or small groups from various parties or entities (I understand that there were over 100 total competing plans to the 1993 Clinton plan) - there was no single plan that the republican party significantly mobilized behind. So perhaps citing a few features that perhaps a few republicans supported in the early 1990s does not provide a basis for claiming that the ACA is based on a Republican Proposed plan in that time.

I remember the debates well (and was very active in them at the time). I assure you - there was no consensus in the Republican Party on how to proceed other than to totally kill the Clinton Plan (which was successfully done).

Interestingly Mitt Romney as a Republican Governor in Massachusetts went on to adopt a state wide plan that is recognized as having its roots in the 1993 Clinton Health Care Plan.

Perry

 

[rainwood]

Perry -

My info is from someone who also follows this issue closely from the other end of the political spectrum, but I can appreciate that you would see it differently.

 

[JewelFreak]

We will not default on our debt. This administration governs by panic via crisis after crisis. They plan that the population will push for anything, to end uncertainty. Read Saul Alinsky.

Once the unbelievable expense of Obamacare drains even our ability to borrow yet more trillions, I don't see how we will avoid default -- but that isn't now. That will happen once it's too late to go back.

--- Laurie

P.S. Perry is right. Whoever you heard that canard from, Rainwood, you need to ask for concrete examples. Obamacare has no roots in Republican proposals -- I remember those days too, and the Rep. party was as much against Hillarycare as they are this mess, if not more so. Ditto the populace. Vague declarations are a basic in politics on both sides because most people accept them as truth without asking for specifics; in this case there aren't any.

During the Hillarycare debacle, Jay Rockefeller (D-Va) declared, "We're gonna give 'em socialized medicine whether they want it or not." I've always remembered that -- this is what's become of our representative government?

 

[momhappy]

Wow. There are some pretty harsh words here against wealthy folks. I certainly wouldn't call myself super-wealthy, but I can appreciate that I have the ability to pay my bills every month. Having said that, it seems odd to me to hear people say that they have no compassion/sympathy for the wealthy and yet that's exactly what they expect the wealthy to have - compassion and sympathy. Sounds hypocritical to me. It sounds so easy to say that if you make more, you pay more - until you're the one who's actually paying more. When my husband and I started our business we lived in an apartment and traveled every business day of every week (returning home only on weekends). We worked long, hard hours to get where we're at. We both grew up very poor, so we feel extremely blessed to be in our position now. How are we supposed to feel when our taxes go up, or our health insurance premiums rise significantly, etc.? Like I said before, it sucks and no matter who you are, or how much money you make, when you're money is being taken away, it sucks. It sounds awfully bitter to say that since so-and-so drives a Mercedes, that they should foot the health insurance bill. I get that our health care system is broken (and our government too), but I do not believe that ObabmaCare is the answer.

 

[ksinger]

[warning, I'm about to sound super bitter with this next bit, but it's totally true]
It pains me to see my friends posting on FB with this "woe is me" attitude that their premiums are going up by a few hundred dollars a month and it's so scandalous and it's all Obama's fault. Oh really? Because just last month I enjoyed seeing the pics you posted of your family on their 3rd 5-star vacation of the year (complete with pool in background and umbrella drink in hand), and wasn't that a $100k Mercedes you just bought over the summer, with which you drive your children to private school? It seems that the people complaining the loudest, in my circle, are the ones who can well afford any increase. Of course there will be middle-class families who are walking that paycheck to paycheck line, who will need to pay more on top of their student loans and mortgages and other necessary expenses. And for them I do feel real sympathy because there ARE still many flaws in the current health care reform. But, IMO, we're going in the right direction.

I don't see anything wrong with that as long as they didn't steal the money.

There's nothing wrong with wealth. My point was that people are online claiming that their increased premiums are a big burden, but they forget that they have been posting about their wealth ad nauseum. They cry "How can we afford the extra $200" and then post pics of the new $100k car. There are people who experience true hardship due to medical expenses (be it care, premiums, etc.) and that's what I find distasteful.

Paying more does suck, for everyone, especially knowing that the funds are lining corporate pockets. This isn't the reform plan I wanted, that's for sure. But it's what we have to work with right now, and I'm willing to give it a try for a few years before I shoot it down.

And what's ironic is that arguing for the US status quo is arguing for continuing indefinitely, a system that already increases costs every single year (regardless of the existence of the ACA), yet significantly underperforms on outcomes and has one of the unhealthiest populations overall in the developed world.

 

[chrono]

And what's ironic is that arguing for the US status quo is arguing for continuing indefinitely, a system that already increases costs every single year (regardless of the existence of the ACA), yet significantly underperforms on outcomes and has one of the unhealthiest populations overall in the developed world.

This is my biggest worry. The premise of healthcare for everyone is great but I disagree with how it is done. I don't see health care costs decreasing any time soon and I don't see the US deficit going down any time soon either.

 

[perry]

Perry -

My info is from someone who also follows this issue closely from the other end of the political spectrum, but I can appreciate that you would see it differently.

Rainwood:

I have now had time to find a paper buried on my computer - written in May 2009 "The Health Care Reforms of the 1990s: Failure or
Ultimate Triumph?" 41 pages long, which lays out the full history of all the key proposals and what was done on a National and State level.

Between 1991 and 1994 over 100 health care reform bills were introduced into Congress - and not a single one was enacted.

The general Republican general response to the health care reform issue was for a "Free Market" system (which is not surprising at all); supplemented as needed by tax credits to individuals and businesses to buy private health insurance.

In specific response to the 1993 Clinton Bill the following was proposed as alternatives in Congress and gained some traction - but no consensus developed behind either one of them:

1) Republican's Senator John Chaffee and Senator Robert Dole. The Chafee plan sought to provide a fiscally conservative, market-based solution to the health care crisis while still containing some of the idealism that made the Clinton plan so popularly attractive. The plan had voluntary, not mandatory, purchasing alliances and medical savings.

2) A bi-partisan proposal was a "managed competition" plan sponsored by Representatives Jim Cooper, a Democratic, and Fred Grandy, a Republican. The Cooper-Grandy proposal had many similarities with the Clinton plan, but attempted to limit government influence in the health care marketplace, and placed must less stringent requirements on insurance providers and businesses. The plan would repeal Medicaid and instead and provide federal subsides for low income health care consumers. Financing mechanisms relied upon the private market rather than tax revenues.

Anyway - from a scholarly paper on the subject written in 2009 to assist the health care debates that led to the ACA/Obamacare - there is what happened in the 1990's.

There are no noticeable significant Republican roots. But I sure do understand why certain people want to claim as much.

Have a great day,

Perry

 

[ksinger]

And what's ironic is that arguing for the US status quo is arguing for continuing indefinitely, a system that already increases costs every single year (regardless of the existence of the ACA), yet significantly underperforms on outcomes and has one of the unhealthiest populations overall in the developed world.

This is my biggest worry. The premise of healthcare for everyone is great but I disagree with how it is done. I don't see health care costs decreasing any time soon and I don't see the US deficit going down any time soon either.

Well, we already KNOW what will happen if we sit here and whinge about it: we've been watching healthcare costs damn near bankrupt the country for several decades now. It certainly holds down growth, among a myriad of other ills it causes. So ANY moving is better than not. The Republicans can't or won't come up with anything other than letting The Great Cosmic Ghostly HAND of THE MARKET decide everything, which is a massive cop out to me. WE are "the market", it is a human construct and follows no "laws", notwithstanding some people's propensity trying to portray it as such and for ascribing god-like or Descartian clock-like qualities to it. Our actions and our minds determine how the market works and what it....values. And therein lies my major objection to themarketthemarketthemarket. If one says let the market take care of it, and the market is something mystical outside of our construction or control, then it absolves us of the moral implications of actions that we are not then required to see as creating and directing that market. For better or worse, it's time to acknowledge that there hasn't been anything even resembling a functioning market - even by Great Glorious Hand standards - when speaking of healthcare, for a very long time.

And the deficit IS dropping as we speak.

 

[TooPatient]

I suspect most people participating in this discussion aren't likely to change their views, but thought I'd mention a few interesting facts that seemed to have been missed.

The Affordable Care Act is NOT something crafted by the Democrats under Obama but is actually resurrected Republican legislation from the 1990's go-round on health care. It was a compromise proposed by the Republicans in an effort to head off the movement for a single payer type of health care system. The Democrats thought it didn't go far enough so chose not to proceed with it. The Democrats revived it because of its Republican lineage to finally get something passed. But by then, the Repubs had swung so far to the right, they didn't even recognize their own work product. The GOP seems to have forgotten that part of the legislative history.

Part of the problem with health care and insurance in the U.S. is the multitude of plans and the cost of having to administer all of that. Ask any doctor who runs his or her own practice about how many admin staff it takes to handle all the various insurance programs and their details, quirks, and blind spots. It's often more than the health care side of the staff. All the various insurance companies have comparable numbers of staff to handle all the different providers and their codes and quirks and mistakes. Until you've had a serious illness (my husband has been dealing with cancer for almost 20 years), you have no idea what a hassle it is for everyone on the insurance side - providers, insurance companies and patients. It's almost been a full-time job for my DH sometimes to sort through the medical bills and figure out what's going on. Lots of mistakes get made on all sides and we deal with top-notch medical providers and have a good insurance program. It's been an eye-opening nightmare.

Prescription drugs cost more in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world because every other developed country in the West has a single payer system where the government can negotiate a better rate. The pharmaceutical companies have to agree or lose an entire country as a market. That's why drugs cost less in Canada. The U.S. doesn't have that system so no one has the bargaining strength to get those same rates. The biggest insurers get a break, but not as much, and the smaller insurers probably don't get much. Who pays the most? The uninsured (either because they don't have insurance or because their insurance doesn't cover the drug). Because we don't have a government negotiating better rates for us, U.S. patients and their insurers pay the vast majority of the R & D for every drug introduced. The same thing applies to medical procedures, devices and equipment.

So if you're mad that your premiums are going up and your coverage is going down, blame it on the crazy patchwork quilt of health care that we've managed to cobble together where most of it is profit-driven and no one has to negotiate for or substantiate their costs. No one in the rest of the world envies how we handle payment for health care in this country. No one. They're probably glad we have a system that makes us bear the vast majority of the cost for every medical development or new drug on the planet. It certainly makes health care cheaper for everyone outside the U.S.

The bolded parts got my attention.

I agree 100% that patients and insurance companies pay nearly all the expense of researching and developing new medications and medical technologies.
If the US refuses the drug companies, who is going to pay that expense?
I don't think Europe is going to offer to pay more so that we're all paying a fair amount...

So no new drugs. No new cures for cancer. No new transplant techniques.

Yep...
This will make better medical care for all!