2014 Health Insurance Premiums - Ouch!

[msop04]

This is for the citizens of the UK...

I did a pharmacy residency in London in January of 2001. We basically learned a little about the NHS and toured hospitals and pharmacies all over. I found it interesting that when we toured a major hospital in London that it looked dilapidated and run down compared to hospitals in the US. Towards the end of the tour, we entered a much nicer wing with more cutting-edge technology and a comment was made asking if this was where they were starting to renovate the hospital. Our guide, a hospital administrator, kind of laughed nervously and answered, "No... this wing is for the private insurance."

Is it still the same after over ten years or is everyone finally getting equal care with the NHS??

 

[Dancing Fire]

[warning, I'm about to sound super bitter with this next bit, but it's totally true]
It pains me to see my friends posting on FB with this "woe is me" attitude that their premiums are going up by a few hundred dollars a month and it's so scandalous and it's all Obama's fault. Oh really? Because just last month I enjoyed seeing the pics you posted of your family on their 3rd 5-star vacation of the year (complete with pool in background and umbrella drink in hand), and wasn't that a $100k Mercedes you just bought over the summer, with which you drive your children to private school? It seems that the people complaining the loudest, in my circle, are the ones who can well afford any increase. Of course there will be middle-class families who are walking that paycheck to paycheck line, who will need to pay more on top of their student loans and mortgages and other necessary expenses. And for them I do feel real sympathy because there ARE still many flaws in the current health care reform. But, IMO, we're going in the right direction.

I don't see anything wrong with that as long as they didn't steal the money.

 

[Beacon]

I think there is still a huge difference in the UK between private and public health care.

My sister lives in the UK. We have a huge family history of breast cancer - mom died of it age 59, her two aunts had it, one died age 60, I had a premalignant condition a few years back.

So my sister asks, at age 45 for her first mammogram. She is declined by NHS and her own private insurance. Has to wait til age 50 by UK law. She has money and so booked a Harley street clinic, paid cash and had it done on a weeks notice. Clean result we are happy to say!

But seriously, to me that is just crappy care and she is paying already a whole lot of insurance money. In the US, her primary care physician would be doing back flips if she waited as long as she did (age 45) for a first mammo.

 

[rosetta]

This is for the citizens of the UK...

I did a pharmacy residency in London in January of 2001. We basically learned a little about the NHS and toured hospitals and pharmacies all over. I found it interesting that when we toured a major hospital in London that it looked dilapidated and run down compared to hospitals in the US. Towards the end of the tour, we entered a much nicer wing with more cutting-edge technology and a comment was made asking if this was where they were starting to renovate the hospital. Our guide, a hospital administrator, kind of laughed nervously and answered, "No... this wing is for the private insurance."

Is it still the same after over ten years or is everyone finally getting equal care with the NHS??

No you get more bells and whistles in the private wings, but the same healthcare as everyone else. I use very cutting edge technology at work: it is available to all. You don't get special doctors or nurses in private care, but you might get a personal visit from the eminent professor. The enhanced care is mostly related to better looking wards, better TVs and more visits by the consultant. Most of my fellow doctors do not have private health insurance, and we can all afford it. That's pretty telling I think.

 

[perry]

Despite the discussion on cost and goals the he real problem is not exactly the premium cost (despite the pain associated in that - and the fact that it really means I have to make other sacrifices as money is not just lying around).

The real problem is that "Obama Cara - the Affordable Care Act" is not going to do all the lofty things people think it will do - and for a key reason.

The basic fact is that when all is said and done - about the same number of people will not have health insurance - only now the government says they will fine you for not buying insurance that some people will not be able to afford - and the subsidies will not be enough).

It will be a different group - but there are people who just will not be able to afford to effectively participate.

People will still not get medical care and die due to lack of insurance - or fear of using it (just like now).

So some of the above melodramatic arguments are just that - melodrama. The overall numbers of people not getting adequate health care and dying are not going to change - just the group of people changes.

The real problem is not that most people of all political parties did not believe that the US healthcare system needed overhaul; and that the vast majority of people feel that everyone deserves a basic level of health care.

The real problem is that instead of starting a real dialog with the republican party and all the State Governors on exactly what the goals would be and how to accomplish them (which would have included detailed study of other countries) - the Democratic party crafted their own plan with rules and exceptions that any logical person could see was going to cause problems from day one - and passed it without as I recall a single republican supporting it. The democrat's designed this program to provide maximum coverage to the poorest (High % democratic supporters), to benefit the insurance industry (key fundraising supporters), and to be paid for by the well to do (less % democratic supporters). The fact that they would then sacrifice the lower middle class (the group who will not be able to effectively participate) was "a good trade".

Had Obama actually worked with the Republicans and all the Governors it would have taken another year - but I am quite sure that 3/4 of the current plan goals would be intact and the rest would be far more workable - and it would have passed Congress with substantial support from both parties.

But now - we all get to experience the current program.

Have a great day,

Perry

 

[Circe]

This is for the citizens of the UK...

I did a pharmacy residency in London in January of 2001. We basically learned a little about the NHS and toured hospitals and pharmacies all over. I found it interesting that when we toured a major hospital in London that it looked dilapidated and run down compared to hospitals in the US. Towards the end of the tour, we entered a much nicer wing with more cutting-edge technology and a comment was made asking if this was where they were starting to renovate the hospital. Our guide, a hospital administrator, kind of laughed nervously and answered, "No... this wing is for the private insurance."

Is it still the same after over ten years or is everyone finally getting equal care with the NHS??

No you get more bells and whistles in the private wings, but the same healthcare as everyone else. I use very cutting edge technology at work: it is available to all. You don't get special doctors or nurses in private care, but you might get a personal visit from the eminent professor. The enhanced care is mostly related to better looking wards, better TVs and more visits by the consultant. Most of my fellow doctors do not have private health insurance, and we can all afford it. That's pretty telling I think.

I wonder which hospital you visited: probably not the one I had to go to when I had a miscarriage in London three years ago. It's actually the US hospitals that look dilapidated and run-down in comparison, in my experience ... and regarding the quality of care, it was excellent. It didn't take me any longer to see a doctor than an ER visit in the states would, and for a wonder, I actually got to have my exam in a room with a door, as opposed to the hideous curtained-off areas NY hospitals use. I rather wish we'd just chosen to emulate their system, if that's the result.

 

[rosetta]

This is for the citizens of the UK...

I did a pharmacy residency in London in January of 2001. We basically learned a little about the NHS and toured hospitals and pharmacies all over. I found it interesting that when we toured a major hospital in London that it looked dilapidated and run down compared to hospitals in the US. Towards the end of the tour, we entered a much nicer wing with more cutting-edge technology and a comment was made asking if this was where they were starting to renovate the hospital. Our guide, a hospital administrator, kind of laughed nervously and answered, "No... this wing is for the private insurance."

Is it still the same after over ten years or is everyone finally getting equal care with the NHS??

No you get more bells and whistles in the private wings, but the same healthcare as everyone else. I use very cutting edge technology at work: it is available to all. You don't get special doctors or nurses in private care, but you might get a personal visit from the eminent professor. The enhanced care is mostly related to better looking wards, better TVs and more visits by the consultant. Most of my fellow doctors do not have private health insurance, and we can all afford it. That's pretty telling I think.

I wonder which hospital you visited: probably not the one I had to go to when I had a miscarriage in London three years ago. It's actually the US hospitals that look dilapidated and run-down in comparison, in my experience ... and regarding the quality of care, it was excellent. It didn't take me any longer to see a doctor than an ER visit in the states would, and for a wonder, I actually got to have my exam in a room with a door, as opposed to the hideous curtained-off areas NY hospitals use. I rather wish we'd just chosen to emulate their system, if that's the result.

I'm very pleased to hear that you got good care in the NHS Circe. Of course, there are problems with the NHS (we actually can't afford it!) and I've heard plenty of horror stories, but I've also heard plenty of horror stories within the private sector too. Nothing is perfect. My husband was treated for a severe pneumonia within the NHS, not once did we even consider going private. I want the NHS to do more, achieve more, but we probably need higher tax to achieve that.

Btw, 30% top rate tax seems astonishingly low to me!

 

[justginger]

For comparison sake, I'll attempt to break down what I pay, and what I receive, via the Medicare (socialized medicine) program here.

Medicare is funded straight off the bat by a flat 1.5% income tax. There are no exceptions unless you earn under about $9k/year. Over that, and you're putting 1.5% of your income into Medicare. That 1.5% turns into 3% (increased from 2.5% last year without a whisper of disagreement from anyone) when you earn more than $88k individually, or $176k as a couple. This increase of an additional 1.5% tax is called the Medicare levy surcharge and only applies to high income earners who elect to NOT take out private healthcare. If you DO take out a private policy, this levy surcharge is waived AND the government, on a sliding scale based on income, reimburses you for a portion of your insurance premiums (minimum 30% reimbursement, available as a refund at tax time or as a direct reduction in monthly payments).

What do you get under Medicare? Standard rebates are 85% of the Medicare agreed-upon cost of a service (varies from 60% to 100%). You must pay the difference, which often equates to more than 15% of the bill. For example, my GP visits are $55. I am usually refunded about $38. That is only about 70% refunded. Why? Because Medicare has set 'acceptable' doctor's visits at $45. They reimburse 85% of that figure, you are responsible for the rest.

Thankfully, there is a safety net that kicks in. If you fork out more than $400 more than the 85% coverage in one year, your additional bills are reimbursed at 100% the amount Medicare has deemed to be fit. So instead of $38 reimbursed for my GP visit, I would get the $45 Medicare thinks it should cost. Double thankfully, there's a second safety net. Once you hit $1200 of out-of-pocket medical bills in one year, Medicare will reimburse 80% of the FULL bill, no matter how much higher it is than their pre-determined "should be" rate. So of you get sick, sick, sick and are seeing the top physicians in the country with no private health insurance, the most you will ever be liable for is 20% of the final bill.

Private insurance isn't cheap, but nor is it even close to the figures I've been hearing from the States. Coverage of course varies. There's the cheap stuff that targets those who have recently left their parents' plans, all the way up to the platinum package. Normal, pregnant covering insurance for two is likely to be around $200/month for a couple on an average income. Reimbursements from your insurance companies will obviously vary, as will treatments covered.

It's easy to use a $200k couple income for example, so no rounding is necessary. You earn $200k without private cover, you contribute $6000/year towards Medicare whether you use it or not. If you use it, you're likely to get around 60-70% of your expenses reimbursed. Unless you use it lots, then you'll have 80% reimbursed. However, if you choose, at this income level, to have a baby and burden the public maternty system, you're gonna get hit with some fees. Last I checked, a baby without private insurance comes with about $2000-3000 in 'other' fees. Alternatively, you purchase private insurance for $1200/year, plus pay $3000 into Medicare. Then begins a special process of choosing if you want to take your Medicare benefits, or some of each (being a private patient in a public hospital), or stick with your paid-for "platinum" private benefits.

Private insurance premiums must be capped by the government here - as they are paying a minimum 30% of your costs (so an average policy would actually cost $260/month without the government reimbursement). It's in the best interest of the budget and the tax payer to keep a handle on the profitability of the insurance companies. Goodness knows there are a million of them to pick from, so business must still be profitable though.

Between 40-50% of the country's health budget is solely dedicated to funding Medicare. What does the Anerican government spend it's health budget on? I know the figures are astronomical - the States pays a massive portion of its GDP into health, but that doesn't seem to be felt by any of the households. Where's the money going?

 

[Beacon]

Quote: "Btw, 30% top rate tax seems astonishingly low to me!"


It would be! Who has it? In the US the top tax rate is 39.6 for the Federal tax. State tax is additional, if you live in California like me the state tax rate tops at 10.3%. Combined that is 49.9% marginal tax rate.

Add to this additional 2.9% for medicare and 6.3% of the first $113K you make for social security.

It's A LOT of tax.

 

[NOYFB]

I haven't read all of the responses yet, but I was pretty ticked to find out that my company (a healthcare company, ironically) switched to a HSA (Health Savings Account) plan which means that I have to meet a very high deductible, including paying for Rx, before anything is covered (at 80%). As a result, I'm unable to afford a medication that I really need, as it would cost me over $600/mo. I put money into the account every month, but not enough to cover unexpected illnesses, like my trip to the ER last month for a full cardiac work-up. I've seen the EOBs but haven't gotten the bills yet, but I'm expecting to pay over $1500 by the time it's all said and done.

We are up for open enrollment soon, so I'm interested to see what they come up with this year.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="msop04|1380740802|
I, too, would love to see this happen -- but don't hold your breath. Hopefully, you are right and this is a step toward that. And, yes, I agree that what we have is "all kinds of wrong." Also, who gets to pay for this platinum care that everyone is to receive?? It's those who have always paid for everything -- those who actually work and contribute... the tax-paying, working citizens. I am all for it if everyone contributes (and I'm speaking of those who are able, not disabled citizens). We currently have several GENERATIONS of people that live off of the government because we allow it, not because it's necessary to their survival. They have big screen TVs (plural), drive sports cars (plural), wear designer clothes and they carry iPhones. They are in front of me at the supermarket checkout line with 2 heaping grocery carts packed full of steaks, potato chips, ice cream and talk about throwing a block party with all of it! These people use their "food stamp" cards to get cash then go and pay for cigarettes and alcohol. I see it every day. I have a huge problem with giving those who defraud the system a "platinum plan." Do we really think they are ever going to contribute?? ...certainly not if they are not made to.

Sorry for the tangent.

[/quote]
Yep, why work when I can get it for free, Just move to Pa. and you can receive $60K from the government each year.

 

[Beacon]

DF - what you say is true, I am afraid.

Your question: "Who will pay for all these platinum plans?" is a very good one.

We're going to be in trouble with this - a program that will run negative $1.1 trillion over the next 10 years. I am sorry to say what I see ahead - a debt and credit bomb the likes of which will make peripheral Europe look like nothing. I actually don't think we will "pay for it", at least not in a normal way.

Let's say we are in for interesting times ahead.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Msop, I think I was clear in my post that I do NOT feel that everyone is in this situation (very high income). But what I do see on FB is distasteful - people complaining about the cost of Obamacare, yelling that he should be impeached, imprisoned, tortured (yes, I've seen people say such things) because their premiums went up a little bit, and then in the next breath they're posting pics of the expensive $200+ sushi meal they just had at a fancy-pants restaurant. When I said "my circle" I meant FB circle, and not to imply family/close friends.

How about the other side of the coin? how would you feel?...I have had seen people in front of me at Asian markets purchasing live lobsters with food stamps.

 

[monarch64]

Well said, Perry.

 

[makhro82]

Msop, I think I was clear in my post that I do NOT feel that everyone is in this situation (very high income). But what I do see on FB is distasteful - people complaining about the cost of Obamacare, yelling that he should be impeached, imprisoned, tortured (yes, I've seen people say such things) because their premiums went up a little bit, and then in the next breath they're posting pics of the expensive $200+ sushi meal they just had at a fancy-pants restaurant. When I said "my circle" I meant FB circle, and not to imply family/close friends.

How about the other side of the coin? how would you feel?...I have had seen people in front of me at Asian markets purchasing live lobsters with food stamps.

They may have eaten Ramen noodles for weeks to make that happen. When I was in college I got food stamps. I mentioned in a previous thread that once I went to college both of my parents became disabled. I moved out the dorms because they were extremely expensive. I obtained food stamps and I was not eating steak or lobster on a regular basis, but occasionally I would do really well on something or would have have stretched them out so well that I could "afford" a little treat for myself.

 

[Dancing Fire]

There is also another group that will be hit hard by this - healthy young adults who are too old to be on their parents insurance but have not secured their dream jobs yet. My son's friends are in that group. They checked the exchange in our home state and the premiuns were very high. They do not qualify for extra help. This group, with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans, just cannot afford to subsidize other people.

Come next March my younger daughter will be in that group.

 

[JewelFreak]

+1, Perry. To those who "don't mind paying more taxes" so everyone can have good medical care, you'll be pleasantly surpised. You will pay more taxes, and more & more as this gorilla goes broke. And you won't get good medical care with it.

Even if every eligible person joined it, the gov't's own estimate is that 30 MILLION PEOPLE will still not be insured.

--- Laurie

 

[msop04]

This is for the citizens of the UK...

I did a pharmacy residency in London in January of 2001. We basically learned a little about the NHS and toured hospitals and pharmacies all over. I found it interesting that when we toured a major hospital in London that it looked dilapidated and run down compared to hospitals in the US. Towards the end of the tour, we entered a much nicer wing with more cutting-edge technology and a comment was made asking if this was where they were starting to renovate the hospital. Our guide, a hospital administrator, kind of laughed nervously and answered, "No... this wing is for the private insurance."

Is it still the same after over ten years or is everyone finally getting equal care with the NHS??

No you get more bells and whistles in the private wings, but the same healthcare as everyone else. I use very cutting edge technology at work: it is available to all. You don't get special doctors or nurses in private care, but you might get a personal visit from the eminent professor. The enhanced care is mostly related to better looking wards, better TVs and more visits by the consultant. Most of my fellow doctors do not have private health insurance, and we can all afford it. That's pretty telling I think.

I wonder which hospital you visited: probably not the one I had to go to when I had a miscarriage in London three years ago. It's actually the US hospitals that look dilapidated and run-down in comparison, in my experience ... and regarding the quality of care, it was excellent. It didn't take me any longer to see a doctor than an ER visit in the states would, and for a wonder, I actually got to have my exam in a room with a door, as opposed to the hideous curtained-off areas NY hospitals use. I rather wish we'd just chosen to emulate their system, if that's the result.

I can't remember the name right off the top of my head, but I'll look through my old photos and see if I can find out for you! Glad you got good care! I live in Bham, AL, and it's kind of a medical hub with all the UAB programs, so we have really nice teaching hospitals and they are awesome... I'd never seen a dilapidated building until that trip, so it sort of floored me...

 

[Beacon]

+1, Perry. To those who "don't mind paying more taxes" so everyone can have good medical care, you'll be pleasantly surpised. You will pay more taxes, and more & more as this gorilla goes broke. And you won't get good medical care with it.

Even if every eligible person joined it, the gov't's own estimate is that 30 MILLION PEOPLE will still not be insured.

--- Laurie

Yeah, Perry has some good points and so do you - "this gorilla goes broke" LOL. It's sad and potentially it's true.

But Obama was on TV this afternoon and said, "there are 20 million people without health insurance." So how can there be 30 million without, post ACA? As reference, there are about 316 million people here in the US.

 

[makhro82]

A few of my thoughts about this situation/thread in no particular order:

Yes, there are many people who abuse welfare, but there are very few "Cadillac Welfare Queens". Yes, there are people on generations and generations of public assistance but the truth is they are outliers AND if you are born into a certain class you are more than likely to stay there. My mother gets $1200 per month in social security because she is disabled. She is not eligible for any public assistance. If she didn't live with us I don't know how she would live on that amount.

My family is considered "middle-class". In my household I am the only one who works. My husband was laid off almost a year ago. Our premiums didn't rise dramatically BUT if they did I would pay them even though I can't really "afford" it on one income. I can't afford to not have health insurance, I can't afford to not do my part in making sure that my fellow man does not fall by the wayside. There are many people with much more disposable income than I complaining! Stop. Is your life really going to be that impacted (if at all) by this? I hope that you have several million in the bank because your perceived wealth can be quickly devastated by an accident or illness and I bet you'd want some type of assistance then. I'm not saying that people don't have the right to question things or that the ACA is perfect, but it's a start and a start long overdue.

When I was in college I got sick but I refused to go to the doctor because I knew I didn't have any insurance. Days passed and I got sicker and sicker. Eventually I went to the ER because I literally could not stand from the pain and had stopped urinating. Turns out that I had a bad bladder infection that had traveled to my kidneys and ended up scarring them on top of the $5000 bill. If I had coverage it would have been a simple copay for a visit and prescription. It taught me two things: never go without insurance and never put my finances over my health.

An employer with insurance became a big deal to me at a young age. I've maintained my own insurance since the age of 20. Many times it meant less school and more work or crappy jobs (which for some people is not even an option). In the last several years it has gotten harder for many people to do this. Benefit packages are shrinking, deductibles and premiums are rising and the healthcare is becoming more expensive.

There are many people concerned about the people not paying into the system and doing their part. What about the people who do but are not getting anything in return like those who work PT with no benefits or before this legislation students whose parents were paying into the system and their kids were uninsured?

It really boggles my mind that people don't understand the importance of a system where everyone is insured. We are not entitled to much in this life but healthcare should definitely be one of them.

 

[Dancing Fire]

If you are not a citizen of the US and do not pay federal/state income taxes, you should not share the right to vote. It is a clear conflict of interests.

AFAIK, only US citizens are allowed to vote in federal elections. Even a green card doesn't give you that right, only full citizenship.

Yes, you are correct -- I should be more clear. I feel that it is a conflict of interests to allow those who choose not to work (whether it be due to laziness or not willing to "lower oneself" to work a lesser paying job -- NOT due to TRUE disability) and/or accept welfare from the government to vote in any elections (federal or local). These people do not pay income taxes. I feel it is a conflict of interests for them to vote at any level, since it all starts locally. It's no secret that these people will vote for whichever party or representative promises to or has a record of giving them more free stuff -- at taxpayer's expense.

I feel it's wrong to give voting power to those who do have not contributed.

First come a free cell phone, then a free car...

 

[SB621]

I'm not sure if I should or shouldn't comment in this thread since I do not pay for healthcare currently, but I have in the past before I got married. As my Dh is active duty military we are covered under tricare. However I was raised in a family that did not have health insurance. My mother is famous for saying she hated us playing outside. Whenever we got hurt she pratically went into panic attacks wondering if we had to see a doctor or worse go to the hospital. One summer my brother had a horrible accident that required an airlift to a local hospital and he was there for 8 days. My parents declared bankruptcy as a result. While I need braces, shots, stuff that most children got and took for granite it was huge if my parents could provide any of that for us. So while you might not like paying extra in premiums I would gladly pay them to know that others don't have to go through what my family did. It was a constant struggle.

 

[makhro82]

I'm not sure if I should or shouldn't comment in this thread since I do not pay for healthcare currently, but I have in the past before I got married. As my Dh is active duty military we are covered under tricare. However I was raised in a family that did not have health insurance. My mother is famous for saying she hated us playing outside. Whenever we got hurt she pratically went into panic attacks wondering if we had to see a doctor or worse go to the hospital. One summer my brother had a horrible accident that required an airlift to a local hospital and he was there for 8 days. My parents declared bankruptcy as a result. While I need braces, shots, stuff that most children got and took for granite it was huge if my parents could provide any of that for us. So while you might not like paying extra in premiums I would gladly pay them to know that others don't have to go through what my family did. It was a constant struggle.

No one should have to live in this type of fear. I totally agree with you. I am by no means rich, but I believe in doing my part and sometimes more if it means I can help someone else.

 

[NonieMarie]

I hesitated to open the envelope that came from Kaiser. My premium was $285 per month. I have an HSA account so I paid everything until I hit $5000 and then 30%.
My premium now is $517, I pay everything until $4500 and then get to pay 40%
Because I make less than $40,000, I guess there will be an immediate tax credit, maybe I'll pay less. What pisses me off is that the insurance company will be getting paid $517 per month and giving less coverage!!
I really feel that we should have a nonprofit health care system.

 

[Beacon]

this stuff has to affect the whole economy. People will not have money available to buy the things they used to. That is a big increase and for most people will definitely affect their lifestyle.

 

[monarch64]

The premium we pay for a family of 3, even with my husband's employer contributing 75% of the payment, is still higher than our mortgage payment by $400. When we bought our house, we bought one that cost far less than we could afford. Good thing we did. And good thing I got a huge reality check about 6 years ago and since then have gotten used to living well below my means.

 

[momhappy]

I don't have confirmation yet, but my initial research has shown a substantial increase in our monthly premiums. I don't care what anyone says about how much money I make, what kind of car I drive, where I eat, what school my kids go to, blah, blah, blah.... At the end of the day, my husband and I own and operate a small business and higher insurance premiums suck. Sure, we have been fortunate financially, but we still have a large amount of monthly business expenses that are required to keep out business running successfully. We have worked our butts off to get where we're at and at the end of the day, paying higher premiums just doesn't sit right (which is not to say that I'm complaining about it on FB by the way).

 

[Dancing Fire]

I think this a link to this lady's experience is probably the best explanation of why I'm okay with paying higher premiums if it means I know my friends, or their friends, or the friends of their friends, ever-on-outward through the population, don't have to go through this: http://www.kameronhurley.com/the-ho...e-to-live-surviving-without-health-insurance/

A-freakin-men, Circe. This is 2013 and I'm bloody tired of the 'dog eat dog' societal attitude. I don't know how people can begrudge higher premiums when they come at a cost of what?...a diamond upgrade?...another bathroom renovation?...a third car for the family?...in exchange for keeping their fellow citizens ALIVE.

I'd agree, but with premiums skyrocketing some of us middle class citizens may not be able to afford it much longer.

You're being melodramatic, DF. You can, and will, afford it. Think about your life - really think. What could you give up before you'd be unable to afford health care? A car? Two? Professional or recreational memberships? Expensive meals out? Holiday? Presents? Movies? Gadgets? Goodness knows you've got a whole lotta jewelry and watches you could sell! Thousands and thousands and thousands of recreational money you've spent. You're not anywhere close to "not being able to afford" anything (nor are the vast majority of ALL PSers), and suggesting otherwise is insulting to those who will have their lives SAVED by access to proper medical treatment.

We are not in the $250k bracket... no professional or recreational memberships, no vacations, no movies, no iphones, and no new kitchen floor. I just use duct tapes to cover up the holes on the linoleum floor...

 

[Dancing Fire]

this stuff has to affect the whole economy. People will not have money available to buy the things they used to. That is a big increase and for most people will definitely affect their lifestyle.

Yep,It sure will!

 

[Beacon]

[/quote]
I'd agree, but with premiums skyrocketing some of us middle class citizens may not be able to afford it much longer.[/quote]

You're being melodramatic, DF. You can, and will, afford it. Think about your life - really think. What could you give up before you'd be unable to afford health care? A car? Two? Professional or recreational memberships? Expensive meals out? Holiday? Presents? Movies? Gadgets? Goodness knows you've got a whole lotta jewelry and watches you could sell! Thousands and thousands and thousands of recreational money you've spent. You're not anywhere close to "not being able to afford" anything (nor are the vast majority of ALL PSers), and suggesting otherwise is insulting to those who will have their lives SAVED by access to proper medical treatment.[/quote]
We are not in the $250k bracket... no professional or recreational memberships, no vacations, no movies, no iphones, and no new kitchen floor. I just use duct tapes to cover up the holes on the linoleum floor... [/quote]

Love you DF! I ain't got no iPhone either. Don't spend my money that way.