Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proportions

[twindoeflow]

Hello all,

First time posting but I've been on here a bunch reading through all your helpful comments.

My question is in regard to a blue sapphires dimensions. I'm currently looking at a "cushion modified mixed cut" that is about 2.5 carrots and has the dimensions of 7.8 x 6.6 x 5.8. I'm looking to make this into an engagement ring so I'm looking for a stone that can be set cleanly into a halo type ring.

The depth seems to be too much but i'm unsure if that makes a difference at all. Should I be looking for a certain depth or proportion? Also, is there a minimum carrot/dimension that I should be looking for in a blue sapphire engagement ring? I ask because I'm familiar with a diamonds proportions but not how a sapphire would look at the same size. I had previously looked at 1.35 princess cut Diamonds but eventually decided to go with a sapphire, however, I keep thinking (for logical reasons or not) that a sapphire needs to be larger to get the "bang" out of it, if you will.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[eastjavaman]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

The depth would matter, as it would affect the cut which eventually will lead to good cut or cut with window and extinction, although not straightforward as it sounds, there are still other factors.
If depth does not matter, I think all of us would want stone with largest table face up

 

[LoversKites]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

The depth would matter, as it would affect the cut which eventually will lead to good cut or cut with window and extinction, although not straightforward as it sounds, there are still other factors.
If depth does not matter, I think all of us would want stone with largest table face up

Not to mention, an overly deep stone might not fit in the setting.

 

[LoversKites]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Hello all,

First time posting but I've been on here a bunch reading through all your helpful comments.

My question is in regard to a blue sapphires dimensions. I'm currently looking at a "cushion modified mixed cut" that is about 2.5 carrots and has the dimensions of 7.8 x 6.6 x 5.8. I'm looking to make this into an engagement ring so I'm looking for a stone that can be set cleanly into a halo type ring.

The depth seems to be too much but i'm unsure if that makes a difference at all. Should I be looking for a certain depth or proportion? Also, is there a minimum carrot/dimension that I should be looking for in a blue sapphire engagement ring? I ask because I'm familiar with a diamonds proportions but not how a sapphire would look at the same size. I had previously looked at 1.35 princess cut Diamonds but eventually decided to go with a sapphire, however, I keep thinking (for logical reasons or not) that a sapphire needs to be larger to get the "bang" out of it, if you will.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

First of all, diamonds and coloured stones are vastly different. This is a good thread with explanations about colour, treatments, and other basic things you will need to decide on: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

Coloured stones, it seems particularly with dense stones like sapphires, are cut deeper than diamonds to intensify colour and save weight. Light return is not nearly as much of a priority with coloured stones as it is with diamonds. Dimensions and numbers mean little and as long as a stone isn't windowed or extremely deep then the depth is usually not something of any importance.

It will be very difficult to find a sapphire with such specific dimensions in addition to fitting to other specs you might want like colour and treatment status. Maybe you could get a stone custom cut from a lapidary? I don't know if they can guarantee specific dimensions, however.

 

[LoversKites]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

My question is in regard to a blue sapphires dimensions. I'm currently looking at a "cushion modified mixed cut" that is about 2.5 carrots and has the dimensions of 7.8 x 6.6 x 5.8.

Oh, and this made me smile because I've made this mistake before. We're not talking about vegetables here, but carats

 

[chrono]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

As long as the depth isn't crazily deep (such as 80% and greater), total depth is generally very much more forgiving than in diamonds. Pricing of coloured stones are primarily set by the fineness of colour, unlike diamonds where cut is king.
https://www.palagems.com/quality_4cs.htm

 

[twindoeflow]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Thank you all for your replies. The total depth seems to be around 88%. I'm not sure if that is too much and makes it not mountable or if it would look strange. Any more info you guys could give would be great. Also, while on the topic, where could I get a stone mounted? I went to a couple local jewelers who ultimately convinced me I should go online based on their high pressure sales tactics and outrageous prices; however, that leaves me with a huge gap in how to finish the product. I just moved to L.A. if anyone has any suggestions.

I wouldn't do any of this if I didnt care about my girl, but because I do, I'm willing to go at figuring all this out. You guys have been great, please continue to help me out or give me suggestions for anything you think would help.

Sincerely
Nate

 

[chrono]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

If it is indeed that deep, then a custom mount will be required. In looking at the side view colour, I am concerned that the hue is extremely dark. Do you mind posting the colour of blue sapphires that she likes?

 

[twindoeflow]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Hmm, I dont have one that she likes, but generally she picks darker ones that are "royal" blue in looks. I tend to go more cornflower looking, she seems to like them too so I think the ideal would be one that falls in the middle of the two. That's what I'm looking for but my eyes seem to blur everything together and I get confused if I look at too many.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Evaluating colored stones by mathematical numbers and proportions is wrong. With diamonds there are much fewer types of cuts, and for the most popular type cuts such as rounds there are standard proportions that produce the more brilliant stones. With colored stones, there are thousands of different cuts. Some have very high crowns and shallow pavilions, some the opposite. You can not look at the depths vs diameters and say this stone will perform better than another based on the math. The ONLY way to evaluate a colored stone is to look at it.

Here are two different designs, both work very well, and both have much different ratios of crown and pavilion depths. The first dome design has a crown that is almost twice the depth as the other design. The second design has a pavilion that is almost 50% of the diameter, where the high crown design uses on of only 41%.

 

[twindoeflow]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Evaluating colored stones by mathematical numbers and proportions is wrong. With diamonds there are much fewer types of cuts, and for the most popular type cuts such as rounds there are standard proportions that produce the more brilliant stones. With colored stones, there are thousands of different cuts. Some have very high crowns and shallow pavilions, some the opposite. You can not look at the depths vs diameters and say this stone will perform better than another based on the math. The ONLY way to evaluate a colored stone is to look at it.

Here are two different designs, both work very well, and both have much different ratios of crown and pavilion depths. The first dome design has a crown that is almost twice the depth as the other design. The second design has a pavilion that is almost 50% of the diameter, where the high crown design uses on of only 41%.

Thank you for the information. Buying online turns out to be quite the predicament then since I cannot view them in person. Does the long depth require a custom mount as indicated in previous posts?

 

[Acinom]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Thank you all for your replies. The total depth seems to be around 88%. I'm not sure if that is too much and makes it not mountable or if it would look strange. Any more info you guys could give would be great. Also, while on the topic, where could I get a stone mounted? I went to a couple local jewelers who ultimately convinced me I should go online based on their high pressure sales tactics and outrageous prices; however, that leaves me with a huge gap in how to finish the product. I just moved to L.A. if anyone has any suggestions.

I wouldn't do any of this if I didnt care about my girl, but because I do, I'm willing to go at figuring all this out. You guys have been great, please continue to help me out or give me suggestions for anything you think would help.

Sincerely
Nate

I would recommend David Klass for settings. He makes gorgeous settings for great prices. Have a look at his FB site to determine whether his style would appeal to your GF. David makes a computer drawing of the design and you can then twist and tweak.
Victor Canera is also in LA and makes handforged settings. Less influence as no CAD design is made and his pricepoint is higher. He makes fabulous rings though.
Good luck in finding a stunning sapphire and matching setting

 

[PieAreSquared]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Ditto what Gene says on depth. Percentages are irrelevant (to a point) in colored stones. Which is why you should...
Forget carats too, look at mm size. You can google "diamond carat size chart" or similar to get a visual on cushions. Here is a sample of the typical round brilliant diamonds in one to two carat weights vs. mm. size:

 

[twindoeflow]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Thank you all again. Attached is the same stone face up. Is this too dark? Is something like the other circle one attached a better choice? Generally, she likes darker but I dont want it to be too dark.

I value your respective input, please let me know.

 

[T L]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Thank you all again. Attached is the same stone face up. Is this too dark? Is something like the other circle one attached a better choice? Generally, she likes darker but I dont want it to be too dark.

I value your respective input, please let me know.

The girdle on that stone is so huge that most of the face up size will not reflect the carat weight. I would not buy that at all.

 

[ElleK]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

When you are evaluating a stone, you have to look at color, face up size, cut (does it sparkle throughout? Does it have any dead or dark spots?) and price. If you give us some of the parameters you're wanting to work within, we can probably help out more.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Too dark and badly cut. The depth would drive me nuts. I would so pass on that stone if I were you.

 

[twindoeflow]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Ok, thank you for the comments. I have attached the two I'm considering. Whats your take on color/depth?

Oval/Cushion, respectively


Oval



Cushion:



Hope the vendor is okay with me posting these.

 

[LoversKites]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Ok, thank you for the comments. I have attached the two I'm considering. Whats your take on color/depth?

Oval/Cushion, respectively


Oval



Cushion:



Hope the vendor is okay with me posting these.

Colour is much better as is depth.

I'd base my decision on price, weight and if you have a shape preference.

 

[twindoeflow]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Ok, thank you for the comments. I have attached the two I'm considering. Whats your take on color/depth?

Oval/Cushion, respectively


Oval



Cushion:



Hope the vendor is okay with me posting these.

Colour is much better as is depth.

I'd base my decision on price, weight and if you have a shape preference.

Thank you, however, i was advised that the oval is 6.2 depth which may cause a problem mounting (it would be set pretty high). I'm not sure how that would look exactly or if that is a jewelers eye that sees the minutia one would never see. The cushion, in comparison, is 4.9 deep. thoughts?

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Why don't you take a step back for a minute. Can you help us to understand your priorities? You are looking for a sapphire. About what size and dimensions? Do you have a preference for shape? Color? Treatment? Budget? Forgive me if you've answered these somewhere, but it seems that a more efficient way to go about it might be for you to cast a broader net by identifying the factors/conditions that you seek and choosing from the whole universe that is caught in that net, if that makes sense.

Do you have a setting in mind? There is so much data missing that I would be afraid to say one way or the other on your choices. Check Jeff Davies, check Roger Dery, check Gemfix, etc. If you do have an idea of the color you seek and the size and treatment, etc, we can definitely be of much better assistance to you.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Why don't you take a step back for a minute. Can you help us to understand your priorities? You are looking for a sapphire. About what size and dimensions? Do you have a preference for shape? Color? Treatment? Budget? Forgive me if you've answered these somewhere, but it seems that a more efficient way to go about it might be for you to cast a broader net by identifying the factors/conditions that you seek and choosing from the whole universe that is caught in that net, if that makes sense.

Do you have a setting in mind? There is so much data missing that I would be afraid to say one way or the other on your choices. Check Jeff Davies, check Roger Dery, check Gemfix, etc. If you do have an idea of the color you seek and the size and treatment, etc, we can definitely be of much better assistance to you.

Agree with the text in bold. Once we understand what you are looking for, we can advise accordingly.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Right! Because right now, you are showing us individual stones. We don't know if you have searched high and low and these are the best you can find, or whether you are just asking our opinions to get a sense of things. Two different approaches would warrant two different answers on the stones you have inquired about.

 

[twindoeflow]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

More or less just looking for opinions. I wanted a rich blue color that doesnt look washed out or too dark. I was getting opinions on what makes the "ideal" color. The oval I posted above seems to be a good shade. The dimensions are listed up there, Im looking to stay within that ballpark (or less) and less than 4,000 for the gem and open to the shape so long as it is a good stone. I'm simply looking for the best color gem available and asking for your expertise, my eye is not that detailed for this stuff. Any options or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again to everyone

 

[chrono]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Not everyone likes the ideal colour for blue sapphires, which is why we asked. So...
Shape = oval or cushion
Budget = $4K
Target mm?
Heated okay?

I really like the (first) blue square cushion here:
http://www.finewatergems.com/sapphire.html
It is a medium dark blue and very strongly saturated. Unfortunately, it is also extremely deep.
The second oval is lighter in tone but could be a good buy.

 

[twindoeflow]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

No so sure about the mm size exactly, but something close to the ones I posted.

I edited my last comment to incorporate that I'm open to shape. I know she doesnt have a preference so long as its a nice stone. I believe heat treatment would be okay based on what i've read so long as it is accompanied with a report and isn't too much heat.

Whichever one i get, I'd like for it to be set in a platinum band with side stones (diamonds).

This is all very new to me and i'm doing my best.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Have you checked out Gemfix? Their sapphires are cut far better and imo, have better color.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Look at the 2.05 ct oval
http://www.finewatergems.com/sapphire.html

Not sure if 1221 will end up too dark in person
http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html

The 2.9 ct oval you posted earlier is a bit deep but nothing problematic.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Thank you all again. Attached is the same stone face up. Is this too dark? Is something like the other circle one attached a better choice? Generally, she likes darker but I dont want it to be too dark.

I value your respective input, please let me know.

The girdle on that stone is so huge that most of the face up size will not reflect the carat weight. I would not buy that at all.

+1. That girdle is huge, and the depth is excessive. I would pass.

I agree that you have to take a step back. What is your ideal sapphire color? Color foremost is the focus of colored stones. There are a lot of well-cut sapphires that we can point you to. That second sapphire in particular is just poorly cut. I think after you've seen some well cut stones, things will become more clear.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Help with choosing the right sapphire depth and proporti

Like this one. You are paying for the color.

Or this one. Smaller and cheaper because its darker in tone.

1201 is worth a look too (hard to tell from the handshot whether it has grey or green in it).