What makes a strong marriage?

[Ara Ann]

Date: 4/27/2009 1:00:41 PM
Author: suchende
Everyone does realize I was asking about money-managing compatibility, as in, how will we spend the money we do have, not what I will do if it turns out we don't have any, right? I feel like this has gotten obscured by some other discussion about priorities and earining potential's role in mate selection. I guess it's such a hot-button issue people cannot help but gravitate towards it.

I think we all understand that point...you both plan on having high paying careers and having money to spend on fun things. However, the married people that have responded to your original post also know that life and marriage don't always turn out as we plan...life has a way of changing your plans. Even the best plan can be waylaid by unforeseen circumstances, so the gist of the advice is to be sure you aren't marrying because you are both counting on that six figure income to be there forever. The six figure income is not what makes a good marriage and can dry up faster than you could ever imagine...honestly, what would you do if one of you lost your job, or had an accident and could no longer work? That is the more important question to answer honestly, than how you will spend your money...I know it's a silly saying, but you truly can't count your chickens before they hatch.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/27/2009 1:06:04 PM
Author: princesss
Maybe a 3-account system or ''allowance'' system would work for you guys? Put your money into a shared pot and then either pull out or allocate ''fun money'' for each of you on a weekly/monthly/yearly basis. That way you spend ''your'' money the way you want to (on sparklies, travel, clothing, etc.) but things like home repair and joint trips can have separate savings accounts (rainy day fund, vacation fund, mortgage fund, etc). Then both of you have money for the things you enjoy separately, and money for shared expenses and luxuries.

Does that make sense?

nope, a couple should always separate their money.

 

[princesss]

Date: 4/27/2009 1:12:42 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 4/27/2009 1:06:04 PM
Author: princesss
Maybe a 3-account system or ''allowance'' system would work for you guys? Put your money into a shared pot and then either pull out or allocate ''fun money'' for each of you on a weekly/monthly/yearly basis. That way you spend ''your'' money the way you want to (on sparklies, travel, clothing, etc.) but things like home repair and joint trips can have separate savings accounts (rainy day fund, vacation fund, mortgage fund, etc). Then both of you have money for the things you enjoy separately, and money for shared expenses and luxuries.

Does that make sense?

nope, a couple should always separate their money.

Hence the "pull out" the fun money part of my post. She has her account, he has his, and together they have theirs. OR they could put the same system in place, but leave it all in the common pot. It''s about what works for them. I like separate accounts, but that doesn''t work for everybody.

 

[suchende]

Date: 4/27/2009 1:12:38 PM
Author: Ara Ann

Date: 4/27/2009 1:00:41 PM
Author: suchende
Everyone does realize I was asking about money-managing compatibility, as in, how will we spend the money we do have, not what I will do if it turns out we don''t have any, right? I feel like this has gotten obscured by some other discussion about priorities and earining potential''s role in mate selection. I guess it''s such a hot-button issue people cannot help but gravitate towards it.

I think we all understand that point...you both plan on having high paying careers and having money to spend on fun things. However, the married people that have responded to your original post also know that life and marriage don''t always turn out as we plan...life has a way of changing your plans. Even the best plan can be waylaid by unforeseen circumstances, so the gist of the advice is to be sure you aren''t marrying because you are both counting on that six figure income to be there forever. The six figure income is not what makes a good marriage and can dry up faster than you could ever imagine...honestly, what would you do if one of you lost your job, or had an accident and could no longer work? That is the more important question to answer honestly, than how you will spend your money...I know it''s a silly saying, but you truly can''t count your chickens before they hatch.

So there is no sense in trying to take spending habits into consideration, because the issue I am anticipating may never arise?

I mean, there are obviously a lot of things to take into consideration, and I have gotten a lot of awesome advice in this thread, but... sheesh! I know we''ll be fine if our incomes aren''t as comfortable as we expect them to be, I mean, we''re fine now.

I just don''t want to spend the rest of my life fighting about money, no matter how much there is or is not.

 

[steph72276]

Date: 4/27/2009 1:12:42 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 4/27/2009 1:06:04 PM

Author: princesss

Maybe a 3-account system or 'allowance' system would work for you guys? Put your money into a shared pot and then either pull out or allocate 'fun money' for each of you on a weekly/monthly/yearly basis. That way you spend 'your' money the way you want to (on sparklies, travel, clothing, etc.) but things like home repair and joint trips can have separate savings accounts (rainy day fund, vacation fund, mortgage fund, etc). Then both of you have money for the things you enjoy separately, and money for shared expenses and luxuries.


Does that make sense?

nope, a couple should always separate their money.

No, we have always had a joint account and that has worked perfectly for us. We do a monthly budget and have "fun money" to spend how we want and have different savings accounts for things like an emergency fund/vacations/car fund. It is a good idea to do a budget to see where all your money is going and then to agree upon an amount for fun money...that way, you can save up for your sparklies.
ETA: I would recommend reading Dave Ramsey's book, The Total Money Makeover before entering into marriage. It has lots of useful tools for budgeting, investing, etc.

 

[Bia]

Date: 4/27/2009 1:21:02 PM
Author: suchende
So there is no sense in trying to take spending habits into consideration, because the issue I am anticipating may never arise?

I mean, there are obviously a lot of things to take into consideration, and I have gotten a lot of awesome advice in this thread, but... sheesh! I know we''ll be fine if our incomes aren''t as comfortable as we expect them to be, I mean, we''re fine now.

I just don''t want to spend the rest of my life fighting about money, no matter how much there is or is not.

You need to come to an agreement. If you''re joining finances, then decide what makes each of you comfortable. If you''re both comfortable setting aside a portion of your paychecks for "personal & fun" expenses, then do that. Just make sure it''s ALL out on the table. Personally, I plan to keep a savings account open for myself to do what I want with. I might keep two in fact. One for savings and one for whatever I want.

If your man is more of the frugal sort, and you''re a spender, then you need to, again, decide what will make you both comfortable and happy...COMPROMISE is key...yadda yadda...

 

[Ara Ann]

Date: 4/27/2009 1:21:02 PM
Author: suchende

Date: 4/27/2009 1:12:38 PM

Author: Ara Ann

Date: 4/27/2009 1:00:41 PM

Author: suchende

Everyone does realize I was asking about money-managing compatibility, as in, how will we spend the money we do have, not what I will do if it turns out we don''t have any, right? I feel like this has gotten obscured by some other discussion about priorities and earining potential''s role in mate selection. I guess it''s such a hot-button issue people cannot help but gravitate towards it.

I think we all understand that point...you both plan on having high paying careers and having money to spend on fun things. However, the married people that have responded to your original post also know that life and marriage don''t always turn out as we plan...life has a way of changing your plans. Even the best plan can be waylaid by unforeseen circumstances, so the gist of the advice is to be sure you aren''t marrying because you are both counting on that six figure income to be there forever. The six figure income is not what makes a good marriage and can dry up faster than you could ever imagine...honestly, what would you do if one of you lost your job, or had an accident and could no longer work? That is the more important question to answer honestly, than how you will spend your money...I know it''s a silly saying, but you truly can''t count your chickens before they hatch.

So there is no sense in trying to take spending habits into consideration, because the issue I am anticipating may never arise?


I mean, there are obviously a lot of things to take into consideration, and I have gotten a lot of awesome advice in this thread, but... sheesh! I know we''ll be fine if our incomes aren''t as comfortable as we expect them to be, I mean, we''re fine now.

I just don''t want to spend the rest of my life fighting about money, no matter how much there is or is not.

Of course take spending habits into consideration, that is very important...but it seemed to me (others too) that there was a lot of focus on the big income and counting on that...yes, the spending habits are a good thing to come to terms with before the wedding...and planning a wedding can teach you a lot about that too!

I read that in most successful marriages, a spouse will only have about 80% of what you think are the perfect qualities in a mate. And that 80% is ENOUGH to build a good relationship on...most unhappiness comes as a result of focusing on the 20% their spouse is lacking...so one can become dissatisfied with the 80% and set off looking for someone else and that elusive 20%...not realizing the new person or spouse, while they may have the 20% they were looking for, will still be lacking in other areas. There will always be an area or two, or five that you don''t agree on 100%...but if you both have at least 80% of what the other person needs/wants, it is worth making the necessary compromises to make things work.

Don''t look for a guy who is 100% compatible, look for a guy that is willing to compromise, because the 100% compatibility is just not realistic.


Sounds like you have a good guy already, I hope things work out well for both of you.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/27/2009 1:12:38 PM
Author: Ara Ann

Date: 4/27/2009 1:00:41 PM
Author: suchende
Everyone does realize I was asking about money-managing compatibility, as in, how will we spend the money we do have, not what I will do if it turns out we don''t have any, right? I feel like this has gotten obscured by some other discussion about priorities and earining potential''s role in mate selection. I guess it''s such a hot-button issue people cannot help but gravitate towards it.

I think we all understand that point...you both plan on having high paying careers and having money to spend on fun things. However, the married people that have responded to your original post also know that life and marriage don''t always turn out as we plan...life has a way of changing your plans. Even the best plan can be waylaid by unforeseen circumstances, so the gist of the advice is to be sure you aren''t marrying because you are both counting on that six figure income to be there forever. The six figure income is not what makes a good marriage and can dry up faster than you could ever imagine...honestly, what would you do if one of you lost your job, or had an accident and could no longer work? That is the more important question to answer honestly, than how you will spend your money...I know it''s a silly saying, but you truly can''t count your chickens before they hatch.

true!! at this point of my life thought i would be laying on the beach in Maui with a Mai Tai in my hand.

 

[steph72276]

Date: 4/27/2009 1:41:00 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 4/27/2009 1:12:38 PM

Author: Ara Ann

Date: 4/27/2009 1:00:41 PM

Author: suchende

Everyone does realize I was asking about money-managing compatibility, as in, how will we spend the money we do have, not what I will do if it turns out we don''t have any, right? I feel like this has gotten obscured by some other discussion about priorities and earining potential''s role in mate selection. I guess it''s such a hot-button issue people cannot help but gravitate towards it.

I think we all understand that point...you both plan on having high paying careers and having money to spend on fun things. However, the married people that have responded to your original post also know that life and marriage don''t always turn out as we plan...life has a way of changing your plans. Even the best plan can be waylaid by unforeseen circumstances, so the gist of the advice is to be sure you aren''t marrying because you are both counting on that six figure income to be there forever. The six figure income is not what makes a good marriage and can dry up faster than you could ever imagine...honestly, what would you do if one of you lost your job, or had an accident and could no longer work? That is the more important question to answer honestly, than how you will spend your money...I know it''s a silly saying, but you truly can''t count your chickens before they hatch.

true!! at this point of my life thought i would be laying on the beach in Maui with a Mai Tai in my hand.

ahhh, that is my dream of retirement too, DF!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/27/2009 1:25:26 PM
Author: steph72276

Date: 4/27/2009 1:12:42 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 4/27/2009 1:06:04 PM

Author: princesss

Maybe a 3-account system or ''allowance'' system would work for you guys? Put your money into a shared pot and then either pull out or allocate ''fun money'' for each of you on a weekly/monthly/yearly basis. That way you spend ''your'' money the way you want to (on sparklies, travel, clothing, etc.) but things like home repair and joint trips can have separate savings accounts (rainy day fund, vacation fund, mortgage fund, etc). Then both of you have money for the things you enjoy separately, and money for shared expenses and luxuries.


Does that make sense?

nope, a couple should always separate their money.

No, we have always had a joint account and that has worked perfectly for us. We do a monthly budget and have ''fun money'' to spend how we want and have different savings accounts for things like an emergency fund/vacations/car fund. It is a good idea to do a budget to see where all your money is going and then to agree upon an amount for fun money...that way, you can save up for your sparklies.
ETA: I would recommend reading Dave Ramsey''s book, The Total Money Makeover before entering into marriage. It has lots of useful tools for budgeting, investing, etc.

if we had done that we would of been divorced a long time ago.

 

[Camille]

Date: 4/27/2009 1:28:28 PM
Author: Bia

Date: 4/27/2009 1:21:02 PM
Author: suchende
I just don''t want to spend the rest of my life fighting about money, no matter how much there is or is not.

You need to come to an agreement. If you''re joining finances, then decide what makes each of you comfortable. If you''re both comfortable setting aside a portion of your paychecks for ''personal & fun'' expenses, then do that. Just make sure it''s ALL out on the table. Personally, I plan to keep a savings account open for myself to do what I want with. I might keep two in fact. One for savings and one for whatever I want.

If your man is more of the frugal sort, and you''re a spender, then you need to, again, decide what will make you both comfortable and happy...COMPROMISE is key...yadda yadda...

I like having 3 accounts, but only one joined for basics/bills, we both save and ''talk'' about purchases w/o fighting.
Marriage is NOT about money, but you can''t live from just love. He makes more than me, but I work twice as much.... house is immaculate clean, warm meals, kids taken care of, you name it. My income won''t touch his bank acct, not even the joint for that same reason lol.

 

[suchende]

For those of you with seperate money... do you ever find each other "looking over each other''s shoulder" so to speak about what the other partner spends their "fun money" on? Like, in a critical way?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/27/2009 2:09:32 PM
Author: suchende
For those of you with seperate money... do you ever find each other ''looking over each other''s shoulder'' so to speak about what the other partner spends their ''fun money'' on? Like, in a critical way?

nope, never !! i spend my money however i want w/o her

. can''t imagine me begging my wife for money to buy something i wanted.

 

[Bia]

We''re separate for now until we get married. Since I pay my own bills and he pays the mortgage, maintenance, utilities, and other bills he is much more aware of where money is going. I make, what can be considered hardly anything, so what I do make is just for me right now. He''ll say things like, "Do you really need that...?" Yea, it will annoy me sometimes, BUT, rarely does it cause an argument because I know that he''s just better at handling finances...and probably always will be. When we join our finances, I will have to have more restraint when it comes to spending because it will be our money, not just mine.

BUT no, he doesn''t look over my shoulder. We discuss all major purchases beforehand (anything over $500).

 

[LadyBlue]

Date: 4/27/2009 2:09:32 PM
Author: suchende
For those of you with seperate money... do you ever find each other ''looking over each other''s shoulder'' so to speak about what the other partner spends their ''fun money'' on? Like, in a critical way?

Nop, fun money is fun money. Of course sometimes you have to sacrifice the fun money for some critical unexpected expenses. But if everything is ok, we spend our fun money, buying or doing what ever make us happy.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/27/2009 2:09:32 PM
Author: suchende
For those of you with seperate money... do you ever find each other ''looking over each other''s shoulder'' so to speak about what the other partner spends their ''fun money'' on? Like, in a critical way?

No-that is the entire point of fun money. You can do whatever you want with it. And if someone doesn''t trust their partner about what that partner is spending **their** fun money on-they have bigger problems!

 

[Camille]

Date: 4/27/2009 2:49:23 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 4/27/2009 2:09:32 PM
Author: suchende
For those of you with seperate money... do you ever find each other ''looking over each other''s shoulder'' so to speak about what the other partner spends their ''fun money'' on? Like, in a critical way?

No-that is the entire point of fun money. You can do whatever you want with it. And if someone doesn''t trust their partner about what that partner is spending **their** fun money on-they have bigger problems!

No, Fun money means new curtains/plants/going out w/other moms/shopping but nothing crazy, I''m not 16

It''s all about trust, DH doesn''t worry about me bc we ''talk'' about major purchases, he has a thing for shoes/clothes, fine.
My thing are sparklies and save for them, fine. None of those things come first though, we have bills to pay and kid''s education as a #1 priority

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/27/2009 3:10:35 PM
Author: Camille

Date: 4/27/2009 2:49:23 PM

Author: neatfreak

Date: 4/27/2009 2:09:32 PM

Author: suchende

For those of you with seperate money... do you ever find each other ''looking over each other''s shoulder'' so to speak about what the other partner spends their ''fun money'' on? Like, in a critical way?

No-that is the entire point of fun money. You can do whatever you want with it. And if someone doesn''t trust their partner about what that partner is spending **their** fun money on-they have bigger problems!

No, Fun money means new curtains/plants/going out w/other moms/shopping but nothing crazy, I''m not 16

It''s all about trust, DH doesn''t worry about me bc we ''talk'' about major purchases, he has a thing for shoes/clothes, fine.

My thing are sparklies and save for them, fine. None of those things come first though, we have bills to pay and kid''s education as a #1 priority

I''m not sure what you are disagreeing with in my post? Of course other things come first, but we are talking about money that specifically is earmarked as fun money.

 

[steph72276]

I don't look over his shoulder in a distrustful kind of way, but we use a debit card for 99% of the things we purchase and I enter every purchase into our online register, so I do know everything he spends it on and he can just as easily go in and look at what I've spent it on. We sit down every month and do the budget together so we are on the same page. We discuss major purchases beforehand.

 

[vintagecushion]

Date: 4/27/2009 2:09:32 PM
Author: suchende
For those of you with seperate money... do you ever find each other ''looking over each other''s shoulder'' so to speak about what the other partner spends their ''fun money'' on? Like, in a critical way?

I think I get what your saying. You''re not looking for someone to buy you stuff, you''re trying to avoid being judged about your purchases.
Assuming that you are reasonable in your spending, that kind of critical attitude would be a red flag for me. Not a huge one, necessarily. Just something to sit down and discuss.

My fiance and I have separate checking accounts and a joint account. Very, very rarely, one of us might make a constructive comment about an item. For instance, I notice my fiance loves the effect of spending money for experiences and haven''t been able to resist pointing this out when he''s considering yet another electronic gadget. He''s gently pointed out to me that I should spend more money on myself and perhaps less on presents for other people. No critical attitude, though.

I knew it would be like this going in, though. When we first met, we were BROKE. Now we are not but our attitudes were much the same back then. I was never begrudged my tiny treats in any way and now I''m not begrudged my bigger treats.

 

[Camille]

Date: 4/27/2009 3:12:59 PM
Author: neatfreak


I''m not sure what you are disagreeing with in my post? Of course other things come first, but we are talking about money that specifically is earmarked as fun money.

Not disagreeing with your post Neat, I quoted suchende''s w/o looking at yours

 

[Haven]

I misread your original post, I thought you were asking about strong marriages in general.

I''m recently married, and we combined our finances. We share one main checking account, and one main savings account. We pay all of our bills out of the checking account, and we put all of our extra cash that we aren''t investing in our savings account. It works really well for us this way.

We had a bit of trouble keeping track of who paid what bills in the beginning, so I created a spreadsheet for the year with all of our bills and we just check them off as we pay them.

As for the issue about spending money on "fun" things--we just communicate openly about things we''d like to buy, and we haven''t had any issues, yet. We aren''t big spenders, though, and we live below our means, so I think it makes it a lot easier when you have extra money coming in.

The bottom line is that we talk to each other about what we''re spending or planning to spend.

 

[suchende]

Date: 4/27/2009 3:36:40 PM
Author: vintagecushion

Date: 4/27/2009 2:09:32 PM
Author: suchende
For those of you with seperate money... do you ever find each other ''looking over each other''s shoulder'' so to speak about what the other partner spends their ''fun money'' on? Like, in a critical way?

I think I get what your saying. You''re not looking for someone to buy you stuff, you''re trying to avoid being judged about your purchases.
Assuming that you are reasonable in your spending, that kind of critical attitude would be a red flag for me. Not a huge one, necessarily. Just something to sit down and discuss.

My fiance and I have separate checking accounts and a joint account. Very, very rarely, one of us might make a constructive comment about an item. For instance, I notice my fiance loves the effect of spending money for experiences and haven''t been able to resist pointing this out when he''s considering yet another electronic gadget. He''s gently pointed out to me that I should spend more money on myself and perhaps less on presents for other people. No critical attitude, though.

I knew it would be like this going in, though. When we first met, we were BROKE. Now we are not but our attitudes were much the same back then. I was never begrudged my tiny treats in any way and now I''m not begrudged my bigger treats.

Yeah, that''s a pretty good summary, VC. Right now we don''t live together and don''t really share expenses at all, and he says it''s "sexy" that I buy myself the occasional luxury item, but I also know that he leans towards the frugal side with his own money. Example: trying to convince him he needs a new suit for interviews this summer is like pulling teeth.

I''m just wondering if these little things will grow into big things, or if they can be overcome. I think seperate "discretionary funds" would go a long way towards that, as long as he has a good attitude about it (which is something we''re going to need to talk about).

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 4/27/2009 11:01:32 AM
Author: DivaDiamond007

Date: 4/26/2009 1:38:54 PM
Author: vespergirl
I think that you have to find someone who has compatible values and future goals. I have been married twice - the first time in my early 20s to a fun guy that I loved to be with, but we had very different values when it came to the practical issues in a marriage. We had talked about both of us ''wanting to have enough money to live comfortably.'' For me, that meant an upper-middle class minimum six-figure salary, because that was the type of family that I had grown up in - but for him, if he had enough money to eat ramen noodles every night, he was happy. I also wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, and his family had talked about the importance of having a parent at home all the time, and not sticking kids in daycare, which I agreed with. However, when he kept taking low-paying part-time jobs, and I told him that I didn''t feel comfortable having kids with someone who could barely support himself, he told me that I could get a night job cleaning offices so I could be home with them during the day

Excuse me, but that''s not why I went to college. So, our brief union only lasted two years, and I felt a great sense of relief after my divorce.

The second time around, I was looking for someone who shared my traditional values, and who earned a good living. I remember hearing somewhere that ''you can fall in love with a rich man as easily as a poor man,'' so I only dated people who were high-earning professionals. If I wasn''t hanging around artist types, I wasn''t going to fall in love with one. When I met my husband, I met a stunningly handsome guy, with a great sense of humor, caring, gentle manners, and he was very ambitious and hardworking. He also wanted a wife that he could support, who would take care of him and our future kids. He is also very supportive of my career goals - when our child is in school, I plan to go back for my Master''s Degree, which he is happy to help me pay for. Not to say that there aren''t things he does that make me roll my eyes from time to time (and I''m sure he feels the same way about me) but we get along so well because we are both working towards the same goals.

I think it''s about knowing what you want your life to look like, and where you want to be in 20 years, and finding someone who has the same tools and ambitions that you do to get there. It''s different for everyone - what works for us might not work for everyone, so it''s about finding the man that has the same goals and ideals that you do.

So is it really just about the money

I don''t really know how to take this.


I think that to have a strong marriage you need to have common goals and respect each other. You need to have those hard conversations early on - and keep them going to stay on the same page. As Catholics, DH and I were sort of forced into this through our Pre Cana classes, but it was something that we had already been doing so it wasn''t really a big deal.

Marriage is not always easy - you will compromise, sacrifice and sometimes give things up and I think it''s important to recognize this before the wedding.

I''d like to toot my own horn for a moment and say that I think my marriage is strong. DH and I didn''t just go through the motions of planning a wedding. We planned for a marriage. We had those hard talks while dating and made sure that we were on the same page when it came to the biggies - money, children, sex, religion, politics, etc. We''ve been through easy times and some very tough times and we''re stronger because of that. We are always there for each other and have a great amount of respect for each other. We also TRUST each other and communicate with each other - which is even more important now that we''re parents. We''ve had our fair share of disagreements, but sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I''m sort of speechless about Vesper''s post because, to me, there is more to a happy marriage (and life) than having a lot of money. My marriage would certainly be easier if we had more money, but I''m not about to bail just because we both have to work for the things that we have. Maybe I''m the dumb one and should have only dated guys who were ''high earning professionals'' and then maybe I wouldn''t as poor as I am today

Well, I wanted to respond to this post, to clarify my position. I didn''t marry my husband for money, and I would not have even considered marrying someone who I was not in love with, even if he had Bill Gates'' money. The OP''s post seemed to be regarding financial issues during marriage, so that''s what I focused on in comparing my two marriages.

Im my first marriage, I feel that I received "false advertising" before the wedding. My ex had a solid middle-class job, as did I, and we were both one year out of college. I thought that we would work together to take care of each other, and then we were planning on having kids a few years down the road when we could afford them, and he claimed to have the same values about wanting a parent to stay at home with the kids. Instead, as soon as we got married, the ex quit his full-time job to be a "part-time musician" and told me that I could work full time if I wanted to have such "luxuries" as medical insurance. So basically, he was OK with me doing all the hard work so that he could pursue his dreams - never mind my dreams. It would have been nice if he had let me in on his plans to become a professional slacker some time before the wedding, instead of lying about his intentions. Anyway, while I was supporting us, and paying the mortgage and bills, he used any money he earned gigging to buy himself musical instruments, and never contributed to the joint expenses, never mind ever doing anything for me. After 9 months of marriage, he was diagnosed with Hodgkins'' Lymphoma. It''s a good thing that I covered him under my health insurance, because he would not have been able to afford his treatment otherwise. I nursed him back to health & paid for 6 months of chemo. 6 months into his remission (6 months after the doctors told him he could go back to work), I asked him if he was ever planning on working again - I wanted to take some classes, but since I was working all the time, I was hoping he could go back to work part time to help with the bills. Well, he filed for divorce instead, because he said that after cancer, he didn''t want to ever have the responsibility of a job or family again (like he ever did in the first place?). His family was so ashamed of his behavior that his grandfather actually called me to personally apologize on his behalf. My experience with this loser taought me that someone who is selfish and stingy with their money is sometimes also selfish and stingy with their time and emotional support. All he wanted was to be taken care of, without giving anything in return, ever. The last I heard, he married a female stockbroker who bought him a car and a house, and was living as a kept husband. If that works for her, than more power to them

After that experience, I decided that iI was going to not date anymore musician/artist types after my nightmare of a first marriage, so instead I focused on meeting professionals. Since I worked as a marketing executive, I was around other professionals all the time. When I met my husband, I met him in a bar, and he told me that he worked construction. I was totally attracted to him, and we had instant chemsitry. He was hardworking, successful, and ambitious. I didn''t find out until later that he was an executive at a large govt. contracting construction firm. He also wanted to get married and have children, and while he would support any decision I made, he was hoping that his wife would want to stay at home with the kids for a couple of years until they started school. As burned as I was the first time around, I believed him, and the proof was in the way he treated me. He wasn''t a selfish guy who only wanted to make himself happy - he was the type of guy who loved to make me happy and take care of me - emotionally as well as financially. And I, in return, love giving back to him and taking care of him. It''s about mutual generosity - of love, time, and resources.

I stand by my original post, and my life experiences. I think it''s important to know what your priorities are, and what you want your life to be like. After all, disagreements over money is the number one cause of divorce in the US. After struggling and being taken advantage of for years, I was ready for a man who wanted the responsibility, and rewards, of family life. Since we both came from the same type of social & educational background, we are both very happy with the upper-middle class life that we have, because that''s how we grew up, and it''s what we wanted for ourselves and our children.

So, as I said originally, it''s about who you are, and want you want from life, and finding someone who has the same goals and values as yourself. For me, I know that I wouldn''t be as happy in life if I had to work two jobs while taking care of a couple of kids. I know that my DH feels that he wouldn''t be as happy if he was juggling child-care duties with a working wife who was never around and didn''t know how to cook. Maybe our values are old-fashioned, but we are happy with our choices and our family - what works for us wouldn''t work for everyone, but that''s why it''s important for both the husband and wife to be on the same page.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 4/27/2009 11:42:03 AM
Author: Hudson_Hawk

Date: 4/27/2009 11:31:39 AM
Author: DivaDiamond007

Date: 4/27/2009 11:15:16 AM

Author: suchende

What is wrong with wanting to date high-earning professionals? I don''t think my boyfriend would date someone who didn''t have similar levels of drive and ambition. It would be frustrating for both people.

Having similar levels of drive and ambition is different than cutting an entire class of persons out of your dating pool just because they don''t have the bank account to match that level of drive and ambition.


My DH and I both have high drives and ambition and we''re poor (at least by PS standards) so what does that say about us? Are we lesser people because we don''t make anywhere near six figures a year?


Hudson - I don''t think that Vesper''s intentions were bad, but I just find it interesting that so much value is placed on money in her relationships (and apparently others'' as well). As a mother, I certainly respect her choice to want to stay home with her children so they wouldn''t have to attend daycare; but having to work two jobs (or more) to make ends meet is nothing to be ashamed of - at least not where I come from.

I can''t speak for VG, but I don''t think she was saying it was a shameful way of life. I think she was saying that based on past experiences she had made a plan for how she wanted to live her life and where she wanted to be several years down the road. All she did was find someone with similar goals who could be a partner to her and ensure that their mutual life-view was achieved. Clearly the issue with marriage number one was one of values and not really money.

''However, when he kept taking low-paying part-time jobs, and I told him that I didn''t feel comfortable having kids with someone who could barely support himself, he told me that I could get a night job cleaning offices so I could be home with them during the day''

I 100% agree with VG on this. There''s nothing wrong with expecting the woman to work, but to ask her to take a night job so she could be at home with the kids while he worked part time and did who knows what else with the rest of his time, is just disrespectful to VG and their future family. He was selfish, immature and clearly had no concept of what it takes to raise and successfully manage a family. And when I say that I don''t mean that it takes money. It takes mutual respect and teamwork. Both of which he was lacking.

I don''t fault VG for her choice in her second marriage and I don''t think she should be judged because her opinion differs from that of others. Some men want to be the primary bread-winners and take care of the family. Some women want to make managing a household and raising a family their #1 priority. VG did what we as women are evolutionarily meant to do; and that''s to find a mate who can successfully support his mate and their offspring. Whether that''s through money, farming, or building a roof-by hand-over her head.

Thanks Hudson Hawk! I just responded in a big long post, but you stated my position more succinctly that I did!

 

[Steel]

Not to be glib…but I think the secret might be ‘selective deafness’.

Really.

Knowing how to pick your battles, when to pick that battle and when to let it slide.

 

[vintagecushion]

Date: 4/27/2009 4:37:51 PM
Author: suchende
Yeah, that's a pretty good summary, VC. Right now we don't live together and don't really share expenses at all, and he says it's 'sexy' that I buy myself the occasional luxury item, but I also know that he leans towards the frugal side with his own money. Example: trying to convince him he needs a new suit for interviews this summer is like pulling teeth.

As long as he's not extreme in his frugality, communication should solve these issues.We're lucky because our financial styles are well aligned, but I'm all for making a clear distinction between fun money and mutual savings goals. One thing that works well for us is that we refrain from mentally "planning" with non-joint income. That means if I want to save more than our agreed on percentage, I have no resentment toward my FI if he doesn't want to. I might ask "hey, there's nothing we really have to buy in the next few months so do you want to put away more than x%?" but I don't assume that he shares that goal. Having my own savings helps here.


Anyway, I agree with your guy. It is sexy to have the confidence to treat yourself well when you've earned it. And I sympathize with you because even though I don't spend much money on jewelry I appreciate my FI taking an interest in what I'm interested in. Having a positive attitude toward each other's hobbies is always good, right?

 

[Pandora II]

VG - I totally understand your feelings and the reasoning behind them.

The alcoholic photographer I wasted 7 years of my life on thought that it was fine to let me pay the bills and the rent and everything because he was ''too good to take a job somewhere like McDonalds''.

He also disapproved of my upper-middle class background, my private education and my father paying for someone to help my mother with the house despite the fact that she was a SAHM (with 4 kids and MS)...

After we split up I made a concious decision that I was ONLY going to date men who had decent earning potential (not millionaires, but enough that I would never worry about the mortgage or bills going unpaid or have to look round the house for change to put dinner on the table that night), who agreed that a cleaning lady was a necessity not a luxury, who didn''t want someone else to support them doing nothing all day, who were ambitious for their futures and yet had their feet on the ground, who had a university education and who didn''t have a chip on their shoulder about people with more money or how it was spent. Also - NO MORE ARTISTIC TYPES EVER.

It wasn''t about looking down on anyone who didn''t have these things, it was knowing that they would not be right for me in the same way as a man who was seriously into sport or contemporary music would not be a good match for me either.

Sure, things can go wrong - I had been off work ill for 2.5 years when I met DH, right now I am sueing my employer and win or lose I will be without a job when my maternity leave ends. DH has been under the threat of redundancy for all but 9 months of the last 4 years - and has survived every reshuffle so far. So it''s not as if I''m naive. However I am married to a man who has made sure that we have enough savings to allow us to live for a year without having to drop our standard of living, who is ambitious but would rather have a job that meant he was home at 7pm most nights rather than one that paid an extra $50k and meant he saw me at midnight every night and who if necessary would sweep the streets to put food on the table.

Money/financial incompatibility is a MAJOR reason behind many failed marriages and for me it was a big consideration when looking at men as potential husband material.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 4/27/2009 2:09:32 PM
Author: suchende
For those of you with seperate money... do you ever find each other ''looking over each other''s shoulder'' so to speak about what the other partner spends their ''fun money'' on? Like, in a critical way?

Well, no. But then, to us, ''fun money'' isn''t major bucks. He doesn''t buy the latest gadgets and gizmos, and I don''t have a collection of designer shoes and purses. To us, anything over $200. is a carefully considered purchase; and we have our excellent credit scores to prove it.

Yes, we have separate money. When we buy a house, we may consider a joint account for housing expenditures only. But, for now, we''re paying our own bills, and dividing household expenses; and it works like a charm.

 

[loriken214]

COMMUNICATION, COMMUNICATION, COMMUNICATION is the key!

TALK to each other!

Lori