why is platinum so much more than gold? is it really a rarer substance?

[windowshopper]

i recently read an advertisement that said "platinum is only found in a few places on earth" yadda yadda--the platinum council or somthing. True?

 

[strmrdr]

Good marketing mostly.

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/20/2005 7:46:59 PM
Author: Feydakin
Uh, sorry??

All of the platinum ever mined will fit in a small house.. I know, that statement continues to concern me since I work with platinum every day.. But there it is..

Also, it takes roughly 2 tons of raw ore to generate enough platinum to create 2 rings.. Depending on the mine of course..

And roughly half of the platinum mined each year is made into jewelry..

Care to guess how much gold there is in the world??

prices are always SUPPLY and DEMAND so clearly there is a lower supply of platinum i was just curious. where is platinum mined? and how much gold is mined ?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/20/2005 7:51:13 PM
Author: windowshopper
prices are always SUPPLY and DEMAND so clearly there is a lower supply of platinum i was just curious. where is platinum mined? and how much gold is mined ?

Here's one reasonable source of stats: GMFS mining forecasts

It seems that platinum rarity is measured by the hundreds of tons per year.

2005 has in store one serious advertising campaign by the Gold Council - 'bet gold will become rare too

As long as it gets blue & purple

(link for blue gold ) why not.

 

[strmrdr]

Once upon a time plat. was fairly cheap and wasnt used for much.
Then came the marketing and the research into more uses for it.
Prices started to rise and more research was done on finding uses for it and looking for easier more cost effective extraction methods.
New uses = new markets = marketing = higher demand = higher prices.

So to sum it up good marketing.

 

[strmrdr]

*cough* *cough* spark plugs

All those areas while you mentioned while not marketed to consumers were marketed to industry.
We get several industrial mags at work and every once in a while a new use for it pops up and is marketed.
A lot of the reasearch is paid for by the plat. industry.
Before you accuse me of missinformation do your own homework.

 

[windowshopper]

alrightttttttttttyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy thanks everyone

 

[Jennifer5973]

Platinum.

Rare. Eternal. ... and supremely well marketed.

 

[strmrdr]

I never said it was evil sheeesh.
Where in this thread did I say that it was bad?
Its called building your market.
At least they are doing it the honest way.
instead of creating false shortages.

 

[Jennifer5973]

Date: 1/20/2005 9:54:18 PM
Author: Feydakin
A few things -

Gold has been mined to the tune of thousands of tones per year while platinum is measured in the hundreds of tons per year..

And why does everyone seem to the think that marketing is some great evil?? Good lord, EVERYTHING is marketed, from water to diamonds.. Including those lovely hard drives (which happen to use Platinum as a surface layer) used in your computer Strmrdr.. It baffles me that some people seem to get a great thrill out of pointing out the obvious and then expectng us to think that some grand evil capitalistic conspiracy is brainwashing everyone into doing something that they don't want to do..

Oh, I don't think marketing, for the most part, is evil, especially when we are talking about consumer goods. I love marketing. Marketing is 50% psychology and 50% creativity. I buy the "Rare, Eternal" hype and only wear platinum wedding rings. Perhaps that makes me a fool or maybe, a romantic. Who knows. Who cares. Long live the "forever metal."

 

[valeria101]

Not really... adds would be somewhat more fun if the news to noise ration wouldn't be so large.

There's way too much of this good thing, hence the allergic reaction.

 

[Matata]

----It baffles me that some people seem to get a great thrill out of pointing out the obvious and then expectng us to think that some grand evil capitalistic conspiracy is brainwashing everyone into doing something that they don''t want to do.. --

I''m not being brainwashed????? Uh oh. If that''s true you''re suggesting I''m supposed to be responsible, shudder, and also held accountable, gulp. Which means last night''s purchase of that itty bitty emerald with the super duper price tag was not the result of a devious plot by my jeweler to keep me waiting so long while he cleaned my ring that I got bored and looked through his cases until I went into a stupor and the next thing I remember is sitting in my car with my charge card in one hand and a gift box in the other??? So this means I have to come up with another story -- ooops I mean reason -- for the purchase before my honey gets home??!! Weell, there''s only one thing to do -- blame YOU, for destroying my illusions. Gosh, darn, now I''ll have to rely on turning 50 at months'' end for my brain farts

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/20/2005 9:54:18 PM
Author: Feydakin
A few things -

Gold has been mined to the tune of thousands of tones per year while platinum is measured in the hundreds of tons per year..

And why does everyone seem to the think that marketing is some great evil?? Good lord, EVERYTHING is marketed, from water to diamonds.. Including those lovely hard drives (which happen to use Platinum as a surface layer) used in your computer Strmrdr.. It baffles me that some people seem to get a great thrill out of pointing out the obvious and then expectng us to think that some grand evil capitalistic conspiracy is brainwashing everyone into doing something that they don''t want to do..

i dnt care about marketing--just honestly wondered if there was technically less of it than gold...

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/20/2005 10:33:55 PM
Author: Feydakin
No Matata, you are excused from all of this because you are girl.. We all know girls are genetically bred to react positivly to shiny things.. Now, be a good little consumer and go back to your jewler and apologize for not spending more money..

isnt it racoons who will stick their paw in a trap to get something shiny and end up chewing their paw off cause they wont let go of the shiny thing. anyone else read "where the red fern grows" when they were 13?

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/20/2005 10:37:48 PM
Author: Feydakin
I know, but when the first reply is factually incorrect, and accuses marketing for the price, it sort of bugs me..

well you know that strmrdr................

 

[Matata]

Date: 1/20/2005 10:33:55 PM
Author: Feydakin
No Matata, you are excused from all of this because you are girl.. We all know girls are genetically bred to react positivly to shiny things.. Now, be a good little consumer and go back to your jewler and apologize for not spending more money..

Whew!! I''ve got a genetic predisposition, what a relief, thought I was going crazy for a minute cause I keep hearing a little voice repeating "matchingearringsmatchingearrings".

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/20/2005 10:37:48 PM
Author: Feydakin
I know, but when the first reply is factually incorrect, and accuses marketing for the price, it sort of bugs me..

incorrect how?
Its still marketing even if its not to end users.
Main Entry: mar·ket·ing
Function: noun
1 a : the act or process of selling or purchasing in a market b : the process or technique of promoting, selling, and distributing a product or service

Increased demand for a limited supply of product equals higher prices.
Marketing to new markets led to increased demand.

 

[windowshopper]

to strmrdr

so marketing aside..........is their less raw platinum available to be mined than gold?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/20/2005 11:59:49 PM
Author: windowshopper
to strmrdr


so marketing aside..........is their less raw platinum available to be mined than gold?

No one can answer that but God.
Is there being less mined? the answer is yes.
Is there less sitting in vaults? - yes
Could someone find a huge deposit of plat. tomorrow? - yep could happen.

 

[windowshopper]

yes but just saying they could discover a huge deposit doenst mean they will...............

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/21/2005 8:7:15 AM
Author: windowshopper
yes but just saying they could discover a huge deposit doenst mean they will...............

Or that this will bring prices down... there are new oil wells every year

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/21/2005 8:31:59 AM
Author: valeria101

Date: 1/21/2005 8:7:15 AM
Author: windowshopper
yes but just saying they could discover a huge deposit doenst mean they will...............

Or that this will bring prices down... there are new oil wells every year

and did the discovery of Argyll (sp?) bring down diamond prices???

 

[strmrdr]

Industry supported research and develpment:
http://www.platinum.matthey.com/media_room/1106218808.html

Industrial marketing:
http://www.platinum.matthey.com/media_room/1100610007.html

Marketing in the jewlery industry:

"New campaing in order to promote platinum jewellery in Russian was launched on the 20th of September during Moscow International Jewellery Exhibition "Jeweller 2001". This is the main objective of a group of leading Russian jewellery companies, brought together by new organization - "THE JEWELLERY PLATINUM UNION"."

"The future plans of the Union include technical help and professional advice for the manufacturers, a dedicated website and distribution of publicity materials for jewelery stores to use in window and counter displays."
http://www.jewellernet.com/info/news/platinum/pt2.html

Proof of marketing by plat. producers since 1975.
"About PGI

Platinum Guild International (PGI) is an organization dedicated to inspiring a passion for platinum that ensures it is the precious jewelry of choice. We supply information, practical advice and expertise to help jewelry buyers make informed and inspired decisions. We also offer the jewelry trade specialist knowledge and resources, with the aim of providing customers a high level of help and advice in store.

Platinum Guild International is funded by leading platinum producers and refiners. Founded in 1975, we have been providing sales support and training to all levels of the jewelry trade for almost 30 years. In addition to our headquarters in London, we have offices in each of the world''s major jewelry markets - China , Germany, Italy, India Japan and the USA."

http://www.preciousplatinum.com/output/page12.asp

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/21/2005 8:43:29 AM
Author: crankydave
Hmmmm... I''d also very interseted in how your revisions to your post don''t show up Strm. Care to share that with the class?


Dave

???

 

[strmrdr]

More proof:
http://www.mintek.ac.za/newwebsite/ThePressOffice.php?pageid=49&subid=12

proof right from the industry
Not everyone has powerpoint reader installed so I linked the google html conversion.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 1/20/2005 7:35:50 PM
Author:windowshopper
i recently read an advertisement that said ''platinum is only found in a few places on earth'' yadda yadda--the platinum council or somthing. True?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 1/20/2005 7:46:59 PM
Author: Feydakin


All of the platinum ever mined will fit in a small house.. I know, that statement continues to concern me since I work with platinum every day.. But there it is..

Date: 1/20/2005 10:35:10 PM
Author: windowshopper
i dnt care about marketing--just honestly wondered if there was technically less of it than gold...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Windowshopper,

Steve answered the substance of your original question 11 minutes after it was initially poted. No one seems to be disputing his answer.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

What hole?
Are you saying that plat. isnt more expensive because of marketing and r&d by the producers?

Iv proven that its marketed and pushed which results in increased demand.
Increased demand raises prices when the production lags behind the demand.

Both are facts.

Point proven.

edit to add:
If you want to say that its not the whole reason we can agree.
If you want to say that higher prices has nothing to do with the marketing then we will have to disagree.

 

[fire&ice]

I don''t subscribe to the fact that jewelry of any type is popular because of pure marketing. Adornment is something that nearly all cultures have valued going back to ancient times. Storm, I just don''t buy into the evil jewelry trade. Really, if you are going to take up your argument, then you have too see that money has no real value. It isn''t rare - just controlled.

Funny about the Rhodium, a friends husband justified the cost of some stereo component because Rhodium was rarer than gold & platinum. Talk about not going a day without a rationalization.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/21/2005 10:41

9 AM
Author: fire&ice
I don''t subscribe to the fact that jewelry of any type is popular because of pure marketing. Adornment is something that nearly all cultures have valued going back to ancient times. Storm, I just don''t buy into the evil jewelry trade. Really, if you are going to take up your argument, then you have too see that money has no real value. It isn''t rare - just controlled.


Funny about the Rhodium, a friends husband justified the cost of some stereo component because Rhodium was rarer than gold & platinum. Talk about not going a day without a rationalization.

ooh boy, im not going there with the money issue in this thread thats another can of worms.

The funny thing about it is in this I never said there was anything evil about the plat industry and the marketing.
Iv just proven that there is marketing.
What the plat. industry is doing is just good business practice.
Grow the market for your product is a good formula for success and an honest one.
There is a huge difference in how they are going about business and the way DeBeers was/is.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 1/21/2005 10:49

3 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/21/2005 10:41

9 AM

The funny thing about it is in this I never said there was anything evil about the plat industry and the marketing.
Iv just proven that there is marketing.
What the plat. industry is doing is just good business practice.
Grow the market for your product is a good formula for success and an honest one.
There is a huge difference in how they are going about business and the way DeBeers was/is.

Yes, but most of your posts insinuate that jewelry in general is all marketing hype. It''s not. I say it''s inherent in our culture to be adorned.

And, I don''t buy into the debeers inflates/controls an industry that at it''s core has no value. I look to long term trends & there is value in diamonds. True, just like anything, when it goes out the showroom door it looses value. Very few things don''t. Historically, diamonds have a proven record of maintaining value. That''s one of the reasons you see so much black market trading. I remember when I was looking to buy my 3c, there was some scuttlebutt about Al Queda having a hand in selling and buying diamonds.

I like jewelry not because of the hype/marketing. I like it because I like it. And, it''s a whole lot "funner" than investing in Euros.