Why can't we wish people dead?

[Tartansparkles]

I had a yoga teacher who at the end of every class encouraged us to think about someone we didn't like. We had to imagine that person and slowly surround them with a gentle light. Sometimes it would work for me and sometimes it wouldn't - but it has absolutely nothing to do with the person on the receiving end of your glowing light, they are none the wiser. Like @Gussie suggested, it has everything to do with not destroying the insides of your own head.

 

[bludiva]

What we were taught was that it’s basically a sin to wish harm on others, no matter how awful they are and, once they do pass, you have to show respect for the dead, no matter how awful they are.

How I feel as an adult is I’m not going to actively wish someone harm for my own sake but I can think of a lot of people I won’t be sorry to see go and I’m not going to pretend to feel badly for them or their families when they pass.

 

[stracci2000]

This may all come down to religious beliefs.
I am not a religious person, and therefore I do not subscribe to the idea that any dark thought that pops into my head makes me a bad person.

 

[marymm]

^ I don't see it as religion but rather positivity and negativity -- the mind is very powerful -- if you think it is a crappy day, it will be a crappy day for you --- I tend not to believe a wish such as this, wishing someone dead, would be so fleeting as to leave no negativity in your mind -- of course YMMV.

 

[LilAlex]

Is it just me? Or did anyone else think the thread title "Why can't we wish people dead?" was asking why this strategy is ineffective. I had my answer ready but I guess it's not really needed.

​

 

[yssie]

I’m curious what Myers Briggs personalities are participating in this thread. I’m an INTJ - and pretty far from the middle on everything but the I. I don’t normally put much stock into personality tests but if they’re reflections of how we see and interact with our environs... I’ll bet there are some correlations between personality type and opinions on this topic.

 

[kenny]

The author's identity is disputed but there's a quote, "I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."

 

[Tartansparkles]

This may all come down to religious beliefs.
I am not a religious person, and therefore I do not subscribe to the idea that any dark thought that pops into my head makes me a bad person.

I can see an element of religion in this but I see it mostly to do with parenting. If 2yo Johnny smashes 5yo Jenny's most precious Lego tower and Jenny reacts with "I wish Jonny was dead" I think most parents would intervene and explain that is an unhelpful response. The reasons why it's unhelpful are many and range from religious belief to impracticality (like where will we hide the body). But mostly I see not wishing people to be dead as rooted in parenting and things we were told when we were younger. And hopefully by the time we are adults we can manage our thought processes and actions better.

 

[Matata]

If wishing people dead is wrong, then it's wrong to make exceptions for Hitler, rapists, pedophiles etc. That's diving head first into the rabbit hole of which wrong is wronger.

For emotionally stable people who are not subject to obsessive behavior and obsessive or homicidal thoughts, moral philosophers will argue that it is a healthy way to deal with emotions toward people who have wronged one or who have wronged many. There are also moral philosophers who will argue that any wish of death is wrong. If we had the power to make wishes comes true, I would agree with the latter.

 

[PinkAndBlueBling]

I have put a lot of curses on people!

 

[Cerulean]

The dominance of the Judeo-Christian tradition, I think. Even in cultures that were historically different, it pervades.

We are taught to fear death and that it isn't really right to wish harm on someone else. We've moralized it. Life = good, death = bad. But I think this is out outwardly how we are supposed to act. Inside, I think it's another story. We all have shadowy desires that we not only don't want to admit to other people, we really don't want to admit them to ourselves. A nasty in-law you hate, someone who intentionally runs you off the road, or a jerk who harasses you at work...maybe for a moment, we might think about how nice it might be if that person didn't exist. Haven't we all? But it's more comfortable to pretend that you're not a monster like other people...the ugly truth is, even the best among us are a little bit monstrous.

What distinguishes monstrous impulse from being a monster, is if you have impulse control and don't let those desires turn into harm. Flashes of rage I think are quite healthy. Better out than in, so they say.

So yes, there are absolutely people I'd rather be dead, or that I might delight in their suffering and I will own it. I remember in high school I casually shared that I was supportive of the death penalty (I was the only American at my Canadian boarding school) and they all looked at me like I was a psychopath and vehemently debated me.

I told them to imagine a hypothetical scenario where a repeat offender, let's say a pedophilic serial killer was caught...and there was no hope for rehabilitation. Maybe he had dozens or hundreds of victims. To me, that person lost their right to so much as draw another breath. So, shoot me!

 

[Cerulean]

I’m curious what Myers Briggs personalities are participating in this thread. I’m an INTJ - and pretty far from the middle on everything but the I. I don’t normally put much stock into personality tests but if they’re reflections of how we see and interact with our environs... I’ll bet there are some correlations between personality type and opinions on this topic.

Interesting...I am an ENTJ. In the middle on most of them besides 'N'. I tend to be very matter-of-fact about moral debates and am rarely compelled by anecdotes and emotional pleas...

 

[Matata]

I remember in high school I casually shared that I was supportive of the death penalty (I was the only American at my Canadian boarding school) and they all looked at me like I was a psychopath and vehemently debated me.

The Canadians I've met are the most polite people I've ever met. I think even when Canada had the death penalty, they probably gave the person to be executed a nice Hallmark card.

 

[Cerulean]

The Canadians I've met are the most polite people I've ever met. I think even when Canada had the death penalty, they probably gave the person to be executed a nice Hallmark card.

LOL. #Truth

They reminded me of the passive-aggressive Midwesterners I grew up around, but on steroids.

I never knew how deftly "sorry" could be worked into any phrase in the English language...

*EDIT - I mean no offense to Canadians whatsoever. I'm just a harmless loudmouth!

 

[canuk-gal]

LOL. #Truth

They reminded me of the passive-aggressive Midwesterners I grew up around, but on steroids.

I never knew how deftly "sorry" could be worked into any phrase in the English language...

*EDIT - I mean no offense to Canadians whatsoever. I'm just a harmless loudmouth!

As a Canadian, you are now dead to me.

 

[Cerulean]

As a Canadian, you are now dead to me.

Will you find in yourself to forgive me?

(Jokes aside, I really enjoyed living there! Montreal is one of my all-time favorites!)

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Meh, it's a social faux pas with a tinge of added religious dread for others.
I was taught it was bad form.


I'm catch myself doing more of an 'imagining protracted suffering' as a work around more often than not.
I think there's no real harm in it, it's a safe outlet for anger and aggression. It is fleeting and not a reflection of character. The only really troublesome aspect would be for the individual to turn to intrusive/obsessive thoughts.
Otherwise, wish away!

 

[Matata]

Superstition can be powerful. My mother's side of the family is Italian. Anytime someone got a headache they'd go to my grandmother to see if they had maloik (evil eye). She'd sit mumbling unintelligibly over a bowl of water into which she dropped beads of oil. If the oil formed an eye shape, the person was a victim of the evil eye. My grandmother could sometimes identify the perpetrator of the curse. It seemed the only way to rid oneself of maloik was to cast a curse on the original curser which led to a curse war and a lot of headaches

 

[missy]

It is very simple.
If you don’t want someone wishing harm on you, don’t wish it on others.
We make it more complicated by justifying, generalizing, and rationalizing.

If wishing people dead is wrong, then it's wrong to make exceptions for Hitler, rapists, pedophiles etc. That's diving head first into the rabbit hole of which wrong is wronger.

I respectfully disagree. Though I have never personally wished someone dead I could make exceptions for the groups you listed above. "The exception proves the rule"

 

[missy]

Superstition can be powerful. My mother's side of the family is Italian. Anytime someone got a headache they'd go to my grandmother to see if they had maloik (evil eye). She'd sit mumbling unintelligibly over a bowl of water into which she dropped beads of oil. If the oil formed an eye shape, the person was a victim of the evil eye. My grandmother could sometimes identify the perpetrator of the curse. It seemed the only way to rid oneself of maloik was to cast a curse on the original curser which led to a curse war and a lot of headaches

The mind is a very powerful tool. The power of the placebo effect. The placebo effect is more than positive thinking. Not just believing a treatment will work but it's about creating a stronger connection between the brain and body and making them work together,

 

[Bravissimo]

In Catholicism it is considered a mortal sin. And a mortal sin alienates you so much from God by your own choice that it’s not that God can’t forgive you but you’ve just chosen to walk away so far you can’t make your way back because you won’t. (I am not religious-I just did time at a Catholic prep school and took philosophy of religion).

Personally, whenever I want to go there, I remember Gollum from the Lord of the Rings and wonder if I had the power to wish someone to death who really seemed to deserve it, what ripples would this produce across society? Gollum is very corrupt but his bad action causes good in the end.

That said if you keep it to yourself and aren’t religious maybe it’s fine. Like being an atheist but not advertising it because if you did so many people would think that makes you a jerk (even if it doesn’t).

 

[rainydaze]

Others here have said it much better than I have (looking at you @Cerulean and @stracci2000 and @ItsMainelyYou ! but here is my take:

I don't value the lives of people who don't value the lives of others (talking extremes here, such as murder, rape, incest, pedophilia, genocide, extreme narcissism with widespread negative effect, etc.). I don't beat myself up for thinking that the word is better off without them. I also do not feel obligated to show underserved respect or recognition when such people do in fact die. Should I feel something positive that they are no longer on this earth to harm/torture/kill others, I don't beat myself up for that either.

I was raised to be a kind, respectful, authentic, honest person with strong morals, character, and integrity. I was raised to treat people with respect and kindness. I was also taught that if I learned things about a person that showed me their character, integrity, morals, and/or actions were disrespectful, hurtful, harmful, hateful, etc. I need not engage with, support, or encourage them. I don't expect evil (or even just really awful) people to change, and I just don't believe any good they do compensates for the harm they cause. So it's not a stretch for me that when someone presents as an evil person, and commits heinous and/or evil acts, I see no problem with momentary recognition that they are not worthwhile to this world.

All that said, in more direct answer to your question... I don't know. I have wondered this myself! Seems to me as much energy is spent on denying, hiding, or altering such a sentiment for... propriety's sake?, so why not acknowledge it and move on. If the person has earned it (again, speaking of the extremes) I see no reason to pretend otherwise.

 

[nala]

My conscience! I’m arrogant enough to think that the universe has and can grant me wishes! I use my powers for only good. And I am not a judge, jury and executioner so… won’t take that upon myself.

 

[Matata]

"The exception proves the rule"

Which rule is that in this particular case?

By the way, I don't think it's wrong to wish someone dead. You do think it's wrong except in cases where it violates your moral code. Is that the rule you're referring to above, your moral code? I'm kinda dense this morning so may be missing the obvious.

 

[Cerulean]

It is very simple.
If you don’t want someone wishing harm on you, don’t wish it on others.
We make it more complicated by justifying, generalizing, and rationalizing.



I respectfully disagree. Though I have never personally wished someone dead I could make exceptions for the groups you listed above. "The exception proves the rule"

I don't think it's simple at all. Well, maybe I do...just not in the way you mean. I think generally, repression is unhealthy. There's positive thinking, and then there's denial.

I don't think there is a person that walks this earth that is incapable of a violent thought towards another person. We all do it. Why do we pretend?

I don't care if someone momentarily wishes that I come to harm, or punch a pillow imagining it's me, or even write out a note about how they are going to kill me, burn it, and never revisit the topic again. I mean it in earnest. I am less than perfect, have done nasty things, whether deliberate or accidental, and I certainly don't expect a puritanical level of self-control over one's thoughts.

In fact, I think that level of control is dangerous. I don't want to offend anyone, but Catholicism is a perfect case study of what happens when guilt and repression turn like a knife against us. I'm not saying all Catholics do bad things or anything of the sort, but I think we've learned from the most egregious examples, if you utterly deny your feelings out of guilt, I think you are beckoning trouble. It's like a cancer.

 

[missy]

Which rule is that in this particular case?

By the way, I don't think it's wrong to wish someone dead. You do think it's wrong except in cases where it violates your moral code. Is that the rule you're referring to above, your moral code? I'm kinda dense this morning so may be missing the obvious.

I don't do wish people dead for the reasons I listed. I am not judging others. I try not to judge others in general (though there are plenty of exceptions to that as well) because I am not perfect.

As for what I am referring to regarding exceptions it is what you stated below. "Wishing people dead is wrong". Not that it's a rule but you know what I mean. There are definitely exceptions IMO.

If wishing people dead is wrong, then it's wrong to make exceptions for Hitler, rapists, pedophiles etc.

if you utterly deny your feelings out of guilt, I think you are beckoning trouble. It's like a cancer.

I never said anything about guilt. I don't believe in feeling guilty. I agree repressing one's feelings is very unhealthy. I always share my feelings and vent freely. Ask anyone who knows me well. I don't hold back.

Guilt the most useless of our feelings IMO and by far the greatest waste of emotional energy.

 

[Cerulean]

I don't do wish people dead for the reasons I listed. I am not judging others. I try not to judge others in general (though there are plenty of exceptions to that as well) because I am not perfect.

As for what I am referring to regarding exceptions it is what you stated below. Wishing people dead is wrong. Not that it's a rule but you know what I mean. There are definitely exceptions IMO.






I never said anything about guilt. I don't believe in feeling guilty. I agree repressing one's feelings is very unhealthy. I always share my feelings and vent freely. Ask anyone who knows me well. I don't hold back.

"If you don’t want someone wishing harm on you, don’t wish it on others."

Or

"Wishing people dead is wrong."

These are in their very essence statements of guilt from where I am sitting. They certainly aren't statements of fact.

 

[GeliL]

Not that I am completely against wishing people dead, I just don't believe in wishing harm or death on people over petty reasons, like if you disagree with them, or they have done something wrong in the past (excluding criminal acts and harming people with actual malicious intent). On social media like Twitter there's always a lot of hatred going around where death threats are flying around, and I just don't think that can possibly be healthy for anyone. So I guess it's more of a "only wish them dead if they are really truly evil and you are not just wishing death on everyone who disagrees with you" .

However I think there's always someone that makes you say "Finally!" when they die.

 

[telephone89]

I think "why" is pretty easy - religion. It's a "commandment" a "sin", its "gods" job. Religion has long been intertwined with what we consider "morality". To me, trying to scrub the religion from that statement by saying "energy" is still the same - back in the day they'd call it black magic. Still against "religion".

This is an interesting article, based on a political happening. The article does not discuss politics (so I hope its allowed to post), but more so the "moral" philosophy behind wishing someone dead. https://peasoup.deptcpanel.princeton.edu/2020/10/on-wishing-someone-dead/

Editing to add: I also think there is a bit of self righteousness by saying exceptions are ok. Who are you to decide what is wrong-ENOUGH to make it ok? Based on the laws of man? The laws of your religion? The comings and goings of a simple whim? By saying I decide these exceptions are ok, you are still inputting your own morality into the situation.

 

[missy]

"If you don’t want someone wishing harm on you, don’t wish it on others."

Or

"Wishing people dead is wrong."

These are in their very essence statements of guilt from where I am sitting. They certainly aren't statements of fact.

That is your point of view. You are not in my mind and cannot say what I feel with that statement. I don't wish people harm because I don't. It isn't who I am. I treat others the way I want to be treated. YMMV. And obviously does.

I didn't say " if wishing people dead is wrong"...I was quoting Matata. See her above post.


@Cerulean You feel very strongly about this. Perhaps you are the one who is feeling guilt about how you feel since you seem intent on trying to prove that I am feeling guilt. I did say I don't think it is OK from my POV to wish someone dead. But I wasn't putting that on others. This is what works for me and who I am.


FWIW I am not religious in any way and never have been and neither is my family.