What are the most desirable colors for these gemstones?

[megeve]

Tanzanite
Sapphire
Emerald

And how would the vendors describe them when the colors are in the top desirable range?

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 11/9/2009 3:52:27 AM
Author:megeve
Tanzanite

Sapphire

Emerald


And how would the vendors describe them when the colors are in the top desirable range?

This is probably the most difficult question to answer as there are as many answers as their are people. Also, it varies by country. For example light blue Sapphires and light green emeralds are preferred in Asia, while here that would be considered a low color grade.

Disclaimer: Everyone has their own preference but the following typically trade for premiums in the US.

As an average (in the US) this is what I would say:
Tanzanite: A very saturated blue with strong hints purple at the same time.

Sapphire: A very saturated deep blue, but not dark. The sapphire should glow.

Emerald: A very saturated green with hints of blue.

How the color is called is really the worst part of how color gems are traded. There are grading systems for color and that's the best way to describe it, unfortunately no one uses it because for clients it's typically too complex and they are more aware of marketing terms such as 'Cornflower Blue', 'Kasmir Blue', 'Forest Green'. Several labs also color grades but each one also uses a different system.

I've attached some pics that show the colors that are usually the preferred best in the US. Naturally the photos cannot capture the best color at all, as most stones at this level have special glows or textures that add to the overall beauty.

It's more important that you pick a color that speaks to you and examine it in person, which is why return policies are required for color gem purchases. Back in the old days when I was collecting, you'd be surprised at what some vendors thought Kashmir blue was, lol. And one hint of purple, however slight as it may be, in a sapphire removes 95% of the value.

Attached to this post is a what would be a high value Tanzanite color. The two colors that should be present in Tanzanite cannot be photographed very well, so it's going to look deep blue but it MUST have purple highlights for top grade.

--Joshua

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Typical High Value Emerald Color.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Typical high value Sapphire color.

 

[chrono]

Tanzanite = the trade likes it to look like a top blue sapphire, with a hint of violet
Sapphire = there are many “standards” ranging from a medium saturated blue, some with a slight violet touch, to a silky famed Kashmiri look. I do think the silky intense medium dark blue is THE top though.
Emerald = Medium saturated green with a blue undertone

Josh has attached excellent examples (although the tanzanite is quite dark on my monitor).

 

[MakingTheGrade]

The tanzanite looks a little dark in my monitor too. I like this color from Dana though.

 

[megeve]

Date: 11/9/2009 7:37:01 AM
Author: serenitydiamonds

This is probably the most difficult question to answer as there are as many answers as their are people. Also, it varies by country. For example light blue Sapphires and light green emeralds are preferred in Asia, while here that would be considered a low color grade.

Disclaimer: Everyone has their own preference but the following typically trade for premiums in the US.

As an average (in the US) this is what I would say:
Tanzanite: A very saturated blue with strong hints purple at the same time.

Will the description purplish blue fits your very saturated blue with strong hints purple?


Sapphire: A very saturated deep blue, but not dark. The sapphire should glow.

Is the description Royal blue applies to a very saturated deep blue?

Emerald: A very saturated green with hints of blue.

I have seen description as forest green, grass green and olive green - which is which?

How the color is called is really the worst part of how color gems are traded. There are grading systems for color and that''s the best way to describe it, unfortunately no one uses it because for clients it''s typically too complex and they are more aware of marketing terms such as ''Cornflower Blue'', ''Kasmir Blue'', ''Forest Green''. Several labs also color grades but each one also uses a different system.

I''ve attached some pics that show the colors that are usually the preferred best in the US. Naturally the photos cannot capture the best color at all, as most stones at this level have special glows or textures that add to the overall beauty.

It''s more important that you pick a color that speaks to you and examine it in person, which is why return policies are required for color gem purchases. Back in the old days when I was collecting, you''d be surprised at what some vendors thought Kashmir blue was, lol. And one hint of purple, however slight as it may be, in a sapphire removes 95% of the value.

Attached to this post is a what would be a high value Tanzanite color. The two colors that should be present in Tanzanite cannot be photographed very well, so it''s going to look deep blue but it MUST have purple highlights for top grade.

--Joshua

Thanks Joshua for chiming in!

 

[megeve]

Chrono, thanks!

Same questions to you like in Joshuas post! I need to learn how to see through the vendors descriptions whether its a so so color or its a TDF color!

 

[megeve]

MTG, thanks!

The pic does help me to see the color as it should be! But as you mentioned, every monitor shows some slight variation in color, so I thought maybe its time to learn to read vendors description properly even the hidden nauces!

 

[chrono]

Yes, to me purplish blue is prB where the primary colour is blue with a purple secondary. However, as to the saturation, there is no mention of it anywhere. For the top colour of medium dark tone and very saturated blue, the rating will be 6/5. I’m not sure if I’ve seen any 6/6 in blues. So for example prB6/5 means purplish blue of medium dark tone and very strong saturation.

I try not to use romanticized terms like royal blue or cornflower blue, etc because it can be so subjective. I’ve seen some pretty dark royal blue stones, if you know what I mean.

The same goes for forest green, grass green and olive green. I think of grass green as having some yellow. Olive green as having some gray undertone. I’m not too sure about forest green.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 11/9/2009 10:10:30 AM



As an average (in the US) this is what I would say:

Tanzanite: A very saturated blue with strong hints purple at the same time.


Will the description purplish blue fits your very saturated blue with strong hints purple?


I would go with Chrono''s suggest with one addition, Tazanite shows pleochroism, so the base color should be blue as he said, and the secondary hue would be the purples he is describing.


Sapphire: A very saturated deep blue, but not dark. The sapphire should glow.


Is the description Royal blue applies to a very saturated deep blue?
Well it can. But I''ve seen people list Royal Blue''s from Black all the way to cornflower, so really it''s not an accurate way to describe the color.


Emerald: A very saturated green with hints of blue.


I have seen description as forest green, grass green and olive green - which is which?

Yeah this is the same problem, vendors choosing colors that market the stone the best. For color gems I prefer GemeVision best to describe color, as it''s very specific. http://www.gemewizard.com/GIASquare/index.php?&ip=&ref=1.

Using that chart, here''s how I would describe a ''perfect'' US emerald:
vslbG(15) 6/6 -
Medium dark , Vivid, very slightly bluish Green

 

[LD]

I would ignore all descriptions and use your eyes. One person's cornflower blue is another's Kashmir blue! Forest green can suddenly become grass green! All are romanticised and vary disproportionately - not to mention the problem with monitor differentials!

One other thing that's important - you may not actually LIKE the top colour. Some people prefer paler Tanzanites or Sapphires. Some prefer the bright neon green Emeralds rather than the deeper green.

Multicolour.com explain the grading for Tanzanite as follows:

"There is a GIA color guide that rates the colors. This is not a final rule about color grading but it is something the buyer can consider. We color grade our stones according to the closest possible match from the GIA color set.
The guide rates the tanzanite colors as follows on a scale from 1-10: vB 6/5 - 10, bV 6/5 - 8.1, B6/5 - 8.1, vB 5/5 - 6.4, V 6/4, vB 7/5 - 6.4, vB 5/5 6.4 .. and the list goes on but selecting the color you like is more important."

So, look at these two examples - both are mine. The photos are a pretty accurate representation of what I see in real life. Obviously, there is more pleochroism and you're only looking at a flat colour here but from these pictures, which one is rated like this:

V 6/5
Hue: violet
Tone: Medium dark
Saturation: moderately strong

(The other is rated vB 6/5)

So which is which?

 

[megeve]

Date: 11/9/2009 10:42:36 AM
Author: Chrono


Yes, to me purplish blue is prB where the primary colour is blue with a purple secondary. However, as to the saturation, there is no mention of it anywhere. For the top colour of medium dark tone and very saturated blue, the rating will be 6/5. I’m not sure if I’ve seen any 6/6 in blues. So for example prB6/5 means purplish blue of medium dark tone and very strong saturation.

I try not to use romanticized terms like royal blue or cornflower blue, etc because it can be so subjective. I’ve seen some pretty dark royal blue stones, if you know what I mean.

The same goes for forest green, grass green and olive green. I think of grass green as having some yellow. Olive green as having some gray undertone. I’m not too sure about forest green.

Thanks for the definition of the tone scale! I wish I have your pair of eyes!

Thats also the conclusion I came too. Like you, I can't figure out forest green - is that suppose to be better than grass green or below?

 

[megeve]

Date: 11/9/2009 11:03:54 AM
Author: serenitydiamonds

Date: 11/9/2009 10:10:30 AM



As an average (in the US) this is what I would say:

Tanzanite: A very saturated blue with strong hints purple at the same time.


Will the description purplish blue fits your very saturated blue with strong hints purple?


I would go with Chrono''s suggest with one addition, Tazanite shows pleochroism, so the base color should be blue as he said, and the secondary hue would be the purples he is describing.


Sapphire: A very saturated deep blue, but not dark. The sapphire should glow.


Is the description Royal blue applies to a very saturated deep blue?
Well it can. But I''ve seen people list Royal Blue''s from Black all the way to cornflower, so really it''s not an accurate way to describe the color.


Emerald: A very saturated green with hints of blue.


I have seen description as forest green, grass green and olive green - which is which?

Yeah this is the same problem, vendors choosing colors that market the stone the best. For color gems I prefer GemeVision best to describe color, as it''s very specific. http://www.gemewizard.com/GIASquare/index.php?&ip=&ref=1.

Using that chart, here''s how I would describe a ''perfect'' US emerald:
vslbG(15) 6/6 -
Medium dark , Vivid, very slightly bluish Green

Joshua, you have been very helpful! Thanks for the color gems chart! Will check it out right now!

 

[megeve]

Wow LD, you are a wealth of information!!

Thats my problem, I fancy my eyes are not doing what I want them to do, to see colors like they should be and not seeing whats not there but just in my imagination! lol!!

From the pics, I would guess

Heart v6/5
EC vB6/5

How did I score?

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I think of forest green as med-dark green with a hint of blue. But that's probably just me! I think of my tsavorite as forest green though.

Maybe it depends on what kind of forests you grew up around, haha. Right NOW the forests aren't that green at all..

My favorite description used for green though was a vendor that listed a tsavorite as "venomous" green. I was confused because most venom I've seen in white/milky (i.e. snakes), and people also don't usually turn green either (depending on the venom, they might turn blue or white or grey....). So the term had me just scratching my head, lol.

 

[megeve]

Lol, MTG!! Right now the forest around me are only brown branches!

Wow, your tsav looks fabulous! Thats the green I am trying to figure out how vendors would describe it! I guess the definition of forest green would be appropriate. It would make things easier if all vendors use Joshuas definition of vslbG6/6.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 11/9/2009 1:17:21 PM
Author: megeve
Lol, MTG!! Right now the forest around me are only brown branches!


Wow, your tsav looks fabulous! Thats the green I am trying to figure out how vendors would describe it! I guess the definition of forest green would be appropriate. It would make things easier if all vendors use Joshuas definition of vslbG6/6.

Very beautiful Tsav!

The worse thing about it is, lol, some members of the trade use the same vague terms to each other. I cannot tell you how many times someone asks for or to tries to sell a parcel of ''pigeon blood red'' rubies, lol. Counter to the diamond trade, the color stone trade is a bit like the wild west at times


--Joshua

 

[chrono]

MTG,
I remember that venomous green for the tsavorite too. It was rather amusing.

Megeve,
Some vendors are familiar with the Munsell colour chart, which is a great tool to at least get some idea of colour that both can agree on. It’s not the best tool but it’s a whole lot better than trying to guess what forest green is.

 

[LD]

100% Well done!

Trust your judgement - NOT descriptions. Descriptions are misleading!

Here''s a brilliant example - when MTG said something was described as "venomous" green, my mind jumped to a bright neon vivid colour. I didn''t think of the actual venom of a snake! I saw somebody trying to describe a "wow" green! See how two people have interpreted the same thing in two different ways? Trust your eyes!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I''ve actually always wondered what "stop light red" translates into in more objective terms/numbers. Same with "pigeon blood", lol.

Is an ideal red spinel med or med dark? Or is it just personal preference?

 

[MakingTheGrade]

These various gems were all described as "stop light" or "pure red", but I think they all look pretty different, lol. Although a part of that might just be photo taking skills (these are all different vendors)

Personally I like the color of #1 best, whatever it's called!

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Date: 11/9/2009 1:47:15 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
100% Well done!

Trust your judgement - NOT descriptions. Descriptions are misleading!

Here''s a brilliant example - when MTG said something was described as ''venomous'' green, my mind jumped to a bright neon vivid colour. I didn''t think of the actual venom of a snake! I saw somebody trying to describe a ''wow'' green! See how two people have interpreted the same thing in two different ways? Trust your eyes!

When I hear venomous green, I think a bright, yellowish green. Like a cartoon vial of poison.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Date: 11/9/2009 6:50:58 PM
Author: MakingTheGrade
These various gems were all described as ''stop light'' or ''pure red'', but I think they all look pretty different, lol. Although a part of that might just be photo taking skills (these are all different vendors)

Personally I like the color of #1 best, whatever it''s called!

I think 2 is too pinkish for stoplight red, but I like it a lot.

When driving, I amuse myself by looking at all the traffic lights. Some have a lovely bluish green light, while others are more yellowish. Near my house, there is a red light that would be my perfect ruby, if set on a ring

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 11/9/2009 6:50:58 PM
Author: MakingTheGrade
These various gems were all described as ''stop light'' or ''pure red'', but I think they all look pretty different, lol. Although a part of that might just be photo taking skills (these are all different vendors)


Personally I like the color of #1 best, whatever it''s called!

Now expand the description to just Ruby, and you''ll see pink and purple ''ruby''s''.... lol

--Joshua

 

[chrono]

I’ve seen various green colours in traffic lights too. Some are a little yellow, some are a little blue and some a pure green. My favourite is the bluish green one. As for red, some have a hint of orange. All 4 stones look darkish in your pictures which could be just poor photography, with the exception of #2 which is nice and bright but too pink.

 

[haagen_dazs]

is there a way the public can access GemeVision ?

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 11/9/2009 8:10:43 AM
Author: Chrono

Sapphire = there are many “standards” ranging from a medium saturated blue, some with a slight violet touch, to a silky famed Kashmiri look. I do think the silky intense medium dark blue is THE top though.

what is not desirable in a blue sapphire?
if the blue sapphire has a secondary greenish hue, that is not desirable right?
grey tones are not good too right?

 

[megeve]

Date: 11/9/2009 6:50:58 PM
Author: MakingTheGrade
These various gems were all described as ''stop light'' or ''pure red'', but I think they all look pretty different, lol. Although a part of that might just be photo taking skills (these are all different vendors)

Personally I like the color of #1 best, whatever it''s called!

This is what I would call a ''stop light'' red!

 

[megeve]

Date: 11/9/2009 1:47:15 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
100% Well done!

Trust your judgement - NOT descriptions. Descriptions are misleading!

Here''s a brilliant example - when MTG said something was described as ''venomous'' green, my mind jumped to a bright neon vivid colour. I didn''t think of the actual venom of a snake! I saw somebody trying to describe a ''wow'' green! See how two people have interpreted the same thing in two different ways? Trust your eyes!

Yah, I probably have to train my eyes more to look for all the tiniest sign of color in gems!

BTW, your tanzanites are yummy!!