Upset...vent (long)

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

So from a few of my posts, some of you may have picked up that I''m in Japan for the summer. I had an incident today in the subway that pretty much upset and shocked me at how RUDE people can be. Everyone that I''ve had personal contact with have been more than generous, nice, kind and helpful. People in the subway, though, seem to be a different breed. There''s a lot of pushing, shoving, elbowing aside (by women and men alike) to get to a seat first, etc. It''s one of those things I''ve always joked about (like, "haha, didn''t expect that") but I guess bothered me more than I thought. Well, things came to a head today. I was sitting next to this man on the train and had my legs crossed. I didn''t realize that it''s considered impolite here to do so, but 1) I wasn''t invading anyone''s space; 2) I was dressed in work clothes, which means knee-length skirt and blouse; and 3) I wasn''t even close to showing anything inappropriate (and I say this after seeing girls wearing micro-minis, short shorts, etc.). About three other women around me were sitting and had their legs crossed. Apparently this guy had a problem with mine.

So he starts speaking to me. That''s okay at first. Tone was not harsh, but I don''t understand Japanese. I kept saying so. He became more and more vehement. Started gesturing towards my legs. I kept trying to turn away and read my book. He kept talking. Finally he tapped me on the leg, and pushed to get my leg off of my knee. I''m in shock. I simply can''t believe he actually touched me. So being in shock I uncrossed my legs, but a few minutes later, the train got crowded and it became uncomfortable to sit that way so I recrossed my legs. This time, he starts yelling at me, kept saying something about "Japan" (nihon is the only word I understood), and then kicks (not hard but definite) my foot with his (the foot that is crossed, sorry this is getting confusing). At this point, my temper snaps. It''d been a long muggy day and I was already frustrated from atrocious subway behavior (btw, I''ve lived in Boston, Chicago and Madrid, and nothing like this has happened). Basically, I was really offended (come on! I have no clue what he''s saying and he''s touching me???) so I started yelling at him in English, told him that if he touched me again, there would be hell to pay, and leave me alone. He kept yelling at me. Finally, I got out of my seat and stood the rest of the way on the other side of the compartment. I was really shaken by this. Sure, there have been rude experiences, but I''ve never really been "targeted" as a foreigner since I''m Asian and blend in. I was in shock.

Sorry for this long long post. I just felt so unhappy that something like this partly ruined what has been a great time here so far. Now, I''m kind of feeling like, I''ve been here long enough and I''m done with this country and I''m ready to go home. I know it''s just one person and not representative of any group...but it left a bad taste in my mouth.

For those of you who made it this far through my story, thanks so much for taking the time to listen/read.

Vent over...

 

[Elmorton]

Just sending some support. It''s rough living in another country, dealing with strange people (and it sounds like that man was definitely strange) and different customs. I say go treat yourself to one of your favorite things or places cleanse away the bad vibes. How long until you come home?

 

[VegasAngel]

I''m sorry that happened. I had no idea it was impolite to cross your legs in their culture. You said you are Asian maybe he figured you should know better.? I dont know what I would have done or why you were targeted.

Was he an older man?

Dont let it ruin your time there. Make sure to learn the customs, & I''m sure you''ll pick up words/phrases along the way.

 

[shimmer]

Aww that really sucks. Some people have no respect of boundaries.

I think you handled the situation really well. I would have been VERY shaken up! I''m glad that you stood up to him as best as you could. Don''t let this one guy ruin the rest of your trip, I''m sure you have seen many many people on the train and these types are few and far between.

I was just in Korea with my FI who is Korean (but doesn''t know a stitch of Korean) and sometimes the cab drivers would yell (like scream) at him, expecting that would help him understand

. I felt so bad for him...at least with me some of them could tell he was a tourist.

I am so sorry this happened to you

((((Hugs))))

 

[Ellen]

Wow. So sorry this happened to you.

I say, learn how to say a few choice words in Japanese, pronto.

 

[diamondfan]

That is awful! I assume you are clearly NOT Asian, so why would he assume you know that? And why would he continue on with you when you clearly do not speak the language? The touching part is downright creepy if you ask me. I would have slapped his his hand if he kept screaming at me and touching me, how gross and inappropriate.

 

[purrfectpear]

Actually Diamondfan, she said she IS Asian, so he may have thought she was ignoring him out of spite. Still and all, there''d be no touching of my legs.

I would have grabbed his scrawny little neck by the too thin tie so fast his head would have spun.

 

[diamondfan]

Purr, I do see in her post that she says she is Asian, I was reading fast. Also, even if she is Asian, she clearly indicated to him that she spoke English and not Japanese, so even if she looked like she was local she made clear she was not a native speaker. He sounds like a weirdo and RUDE is RUDE in any language. The yelling and touching is NOT okay.

 

[Linda W]

I am so sorry this happened to you. I would have yelled at him too.


Linda

 

[Tuckins1]

Sorry you had to deal with that situation. But, that man is lucky! Even though you look like you''re Japanese, he might have gotten a swift kick in the a@# from your very American foot!! Don''t let one nut job ruin your experience there.

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 8/4/2008 12:18:20 PM
Author: diamondfan
Purr, I do see in her post that she says she is Asian, I was reading fast. Also, even if she is Asian, she clearly indicated to him that she spoke English and not Japanese, so even if she looked like she was local she made clear she was not a native speaker. He sounds like a weirdo and RUDE is RUDE in any language. The yelling and touching is NOT okay.

She did say in her post she is Asian & blends in. You are right though rude is rude. I know what I would do if this happened here but in a foreign country

 

[HollyS]

I''m sorry he was so rude that you actually felt threatened or harrassed. It''s tough being in a foreign country, not fluent in the language, and not so aware of local or national customs -- which can be a lot different than the US. Take heart in the fact that it was an isolated incident; you said you haven''t felt any hostility or ill will before.

Makes you think though; we should all be mindful of the foreigner in our own midst who is unnerved by our way of doing things. They could use a little of our kindness. They probably feel harrassed when we talk louder and louder because they don''t understand English! We have a lot of ''not born in America'' folks in my area: Koreans, Germans, Pakistanis, Mexicans (of course), and a smattering of Eastern Europeans that would have been Soviets in a different decade. When you''re in retail, you learn to get by with a lot of sign language, etc. I''ve always said, "they speak better English that I speak _______."

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 8/4/2008 11:54:08 AM
Author: Ellen
Wow. So sorry this happened to you.

I say, learn how to say a few choice words in Japanese, pronto.

I agree! Learn to say, "Touch me again and I''ll hang you by your tie."

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 8/4/2008 12:40:07 PM
Author: MonkeyPie

Date: 8/4/2008 11:54:08 AM
Author: Ellen
Wow. So sorry this happened to you.

I say, learn how to say a few choice words in Japanese, pronto.

I agree! Learn to say, ''Touch me again and I''ll hang you by your tie.''

I''m thinking of what happened imagining Brown eyed girl saying this & totally cracking up.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 8/4/2008 12:49:55 PM
Author: VegasAngel

Date: 8/4/2008 12:40:07 PM
Author: MonkeyPie

Date: 8/4/2008 11:54:08 AM
Author: Ellen
Wow. So sorry this happened to you.

I say, learn how to say a few choice words in Japanese, pronto.

I agree! Learn to say, ''Touch me again and I''ll hang you by your tie.''

I''m thinking of what happened imagining Brown eyed girl saying this & totally cracking up.

LOL! The worst part is that when I imagine it, I don''t see him actually shutting up - I bet he would have gotten LOUDER. This guy was obviously just rude, and I''m pretty sure if he was older then he still has that whole "the woman must be silent and obidient" attitude.

 

[Anastasia]

Wow. That is not only incredibly rude, but scary. I can''t believe he touched your legs - that gives me the creeps.

It sounds to me like maybe the guy is unstable - I''m so sorry you experienced this. I would be very shaken up by this too.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Hi everyone. First, thank you all SO much for letting me vent, and for all the supportive comments. I just got off the phone with BF and a good friend (there were a couple other things that occurred today, but very minor), and I just got back and saw all the responses. I''m very touched.

Elmorton, good advice! I think I will treat myself to something....maybe go back to this jewelry store I went to today and get a pearl pendant

I actually only have three weeks left here - I''ve been here for seven and am leaving at the end of the month. It''s a shame something like this had to happen, but fortunately, I''ve had a lot of great memories and experiences in the last seven weeks too - perspective tells me that it''s much better to focus on those than this one (hopefully never to be repeated) incident!

VegasAngel, I have to say I didn''t know about this either! I googled it when I got home and there was a discussion on a Japanese forum, where I learned about how it may be improper - on the other hand, there were Westerners on the forum who said that in the US, it''s actually much better to cross your legs if you''re wearing a skirt (for reasons of properness and modesty!). So I guess it''s very much a cultural thing. And yes, he was an older man, and now that you guys mention it, I think he lives outside the city in a more rural area. Not making a generalization! But I had the thought that he may be uber-conservative, traditional and not a city dweller - hence the incident

Shimmer, you''re right! Very few people are like this guy that I''ve seen - yes some are impatient or rude but nothing too out of the ordinary. As my friend said on the phone, I think he''s a nutcase and hopefully, for other commuters'' sakes, a very special snowflake and one of a kind

Incidentally, I''m Korean too! And I feel terrible that cab drivers were so rude to your FI! There are definite advantages to blending in (my very clearly foreign co-worker got stopped by undercover police demanding to see her passport in the street!) but disadvantages too, like your situation. I hope you had a great stay in Korea though! I haven''t been back in years and years sadly!

Ellen, next mission: choice words. Seriously, when I googled this after I got home, I learned that the best word a foreign woman can use on the train is the word "chikkan" which means "pervert" - it''s sure to embarrass the guy, hopefully make him stop, and draw the attention of the entire car! But I plan to learn a few more...fortunately, I have an arsenal of choice words in Korean at my disposal...and I''ve found that for some reason, they are way more effective than English ones

Diamondfan, Sorry my post was really rambly! Yep, I''m Asian, and was dressed fairly typically since I was in my suit, but no, you''re right, it is NOT okay at all for the touching and kicking. I mean, okay, the kicking? What are we in kindergarten??? And the touching - totally inappropriate! I didn''t expect it and didn''t register it for a good long while though - so it was a little too late. It was probably the reason why I lost it when he started kicking me though. Mean guy

LindaW, Thanks for the support! I was afraid I was acting irrationally by yelling - I try to keep my temper and let things like that go - but for some reason, he really got to me.

Tuckins1, If only we had been standing! And I was in my heels! No, I actually did have the thought of "what would I do if he kept things up?" and I was thinking that I would slap him. But then I also had the thought that he looked crazy and from the way he was yelling (you know, drown everyone out tactic), I was afraid that he really would slap me back. He had that vehemence and aggression that really comes from pure offended anger, and I guess I had the thought that if he was really pursuing this and yelling at me, there was no way to really tell what else he would do. And being arrested for assault and not being able to speak the language is terrible when you have interviews for law firms coming up in a month!

HollyS, part of my job here is working with Japanese people who are studying English, and it''s been a really eye-opening experience (considering that my Japanese is non-existence and their English is very good). Just thinking about the way people can react to questions on the street in an American big city, I feel terrible when I think that visitors to the US might feel the way I do sometimes (lost, alone, confused, and unable to communicate). And it''s very easy to take for granted our speaking speed - I''m a fast talker, and I''ve had to consciously slow my rate down a LOT - and it does wonders! But people have been nice here - this was an isolated incident - and they''ve been really helpful too. Although it''s funny - the other day I had three people approach me within 15 minutes of one another (all Japanese women) and ask me for directions! That blending in thing....

MonkeyPie, I love it! I will SO learn that! But yes, I''m pretty sure he wouldn''t have stopped. Ugh.

Anastasia, it was creepy. Especially since you read a lot about how safe Tokyo is (and it is as far as I''ve seen it, other than today). On the other hand, you read a lot about how uncomfortable it may be for women. For instance, how the city now has "Women Only" cars for rush hours in the subway because there were so many incidents of men groping, harassing, taking pictures up skirts, etc. Or how the new iPhone here is sold with an audible shutter click (can''t be disabled like in other countries) because of the incidents of up-skirt photography. I''m glad there are things being done, but sad that it was necessary in the first place. But let me tell you, I haven''t been actually groped on the subway yet - but if they do, someone is going to find that they''re being hit on the head with a heavy purse while having their tie yanked!

 

[sap483]

I don''t have anything additional to add than what everyone else has said, but I just wanted to say that I''m very sorry that you had to experience that. I hope that the rest of your trip is wonderful and isn''t tainted by this bad experience!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/4/2008 1:24:34 PM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl
Ellen, next mission: choice words. Seriously, when I googled this after I got home, I learned that the best word a foreign woman can use on the train is the word ''chikkan'' which means ''pervert'' - it''s sure to embarrass the guy, hopefully make him stop, and draw the attention of the entire car! But I plan to learn a few more...fortunately, I have an arsenal of choice words in Korean at my disposal...and I''ve found that for some reason, they are way more effective than English ones

Ahh, interesting, but I can see it! Also, it would not hurt you, if you don''t have some already, to get a can of mace. You probably wouldn''t even have to spray him/anybody, just hold it in your hand with your finger on the button and look them straight in the eye.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Thanks SAP! I''m just going to tell myself what you all and my friends and BF have told me, which is that the guy was crazy, this was a strange freak incident, and I will therefore NOT let it ruin the rest of my summer! But I am seriously so grateful for everyone''s support, thank you!

Ellen, I didn''t think of this until you mentioned the mace, but in Kyoto, I did buy a sword....


It''s a replica. But it looks real enough. I should start carrying it on the subways! (and to complete this mental image, imagine a tiny, 5''1" Asian girl in a suit and heels, wielding a short sword in the subways of Tokyo!

)

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/4/2008 1:39:48 PM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Ellen, I didn''t think of this until you mentioned the mace, but in Kyoto, I did buy a sword....


It''s a replica. But it looks real enough. I should start carrying it on the subways! (and to complete this mental image, imagine a tiny, 5''1'' Asian girl in a suit and heels, wielding a short sword in the subways of Tokyo!

)

LOVE it!! That''d work.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 8/4/2008 1:39:48 PM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl
Ellen, I didn''t think of this until you mentioned the mace, but in Kyoto, I did buy a sword....

It''s a replica. But it looks real enough. I should start carrying it on the subways! (and to complete this mental image, imagine a tiny, 5''1'' Asian girl in a suit and heels, wielding a short sword in the subways of Tokyo!

)

What a jerk!!!I definitely would have put my heel up his @$$.

That said...I can totally see you wielding a sword and all crazy men getting away from you and FAST!!!

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Date: 8/4/2008 1:39:48 PM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl
Thanks SAP! I''m just going to tell myself what you all and my friends and BF have told me, which is that the guy was crazy, this was a strange freak incident, and I will therefore NOT let it ruin the rest of my summer! But I am seriously so grateful for everyone''s support, thank you!

Ellen, I didn''t think of this until you mentioned the mace, but in Kyoto, I did buy a sword....


It''s a replica. But it looks real enough. I should start carrying it on the subways! (and to complete this mental image, imagine a tiny, 5''1'' Asian girl in a suit and heels, wielding a short sword in the subways of Tokyo!

)

Don''t buy the mace until you look at the laws on it. I know in a number of countries, civillians carrying mace is illegal and you don''t want to add to your troubles.

 

[princesss]

Ate my post...grrrr....

Anyways, I think you handled it the best way you could. I agree with BIH, you don''t want to do something that could get you into more trouble. Having a disagreement with a man on the subway (no matter how rude) is far easier to deal with than being arrested or deported, especially when you don''t speak the language and can''t explain yourself.

 

[Bliss]

OHHHH, that makes me SO mad!!!!!!!

Just think, though. One day, that pushy creepy cellar dweller of human waste is going to pull that on the WRONG woman. And you''ll see it in the headlines.

"Screaming cellar dweller beheaded by samurai princess" on page one of the local newspaper!

 

[miraclesrule]

I''m totally with Ellen...learn those choice words.

When I was in Vienna for two weeks, I was treated really strangely on the Strauusenwhateveryoucallitthingee.....

I was so happy to be in Europe and couldn''t stop smiling in awe of such beautiful historic buidings. When I would smile at people, they would give me a dirty look and turn away. When shopping, if I bumped into someone, I would turn around and say "excuse me" and they would give me a dirty look. I even learned to say it in their language.

As it turns out, nobody in Vienna smiles during the winter. Nobody holds a door open for you even if you are pushing a stroller with kids, and nobody says excuse me because they are used to the small aisles and bumping into each other is normal. That behavior is normal for them and nobody expects it. Saying excuse me was considered insulting to them as though I was upset that our bodies had touched.

:::::shrugs:::::: oh well. Live and Learn.

There are crazy people in every town. You can secretly thank that jerk now, because you will learn some colorful Japanese language to use during the rest of your stay.!!

 

[diamondfan]

I think it would be good to learn how to say, STOP TOUCHING ME, you PERVERT in Japanese.

I also heard about the groping and under the dress photo taking. Gross. Women are being violated all over, dressing rooms, gym locker rooms, anywhere there is a crowd...there is a disorder where men like to rub ip against people, frotterism (spelling?) and they tend to do it in crowds, as they can make it seem accidental and if caught they can just say Sorry, I was bumped or I lost my balance.

this guy sounds a bit off. I mean, if if you WERE a native, why is it HIS business to berate you for your leg crossing? He was out of control. I do not think he would have done much else to you, BUT there are boundaries, standards of behavior and space issues in public which he clearly violated. Gross. Make sure you know your rights in terms of protecting yourself in the future so you do not have any more worries when you go out. there are always weirdos around...

 

[FrekeChild]

Frotteurism

I''ve always thought that was a weird one. And apparently females can do it to. Anyone else seen that Clearasil commercial where the girl goes rubbing her face all over strangers? I always think of that disorder when I see it.

 

[miraclesrule]

Wow, who knew it was such a big problem in Japan. That''s crazy. My new word of the day "Frotteurism"

It''s easier for me to just say "groping", but if I was in Japan I would learn how to yell "Chikan"

 

[diamondfan]

I knew I spelled it wrong!!!

I think that mostly men do it but I would never say never!

this was not frotteurism but still...it was NASTY.