Took my huge Ametrine in to get a ID/value...

[RockHugger]

I have a jewler who I have taken quite a few of my stones to. I took it to him and he was shocked at its size...he said it is deffinately natural, and weighed it in at 75.5cts.

I couldnt give me a value though because he has never seen one that large. He called his gemologist buddy and gave a description over the phone. His friend said an ametrine that size is irreplaceable. He said though, larger ametrine stones usually run 30$/ct. He said about 2k would be the appraised insured value, but if I lost it, I prolly wouldnt find another one no matter what the price.

So I guess thats good! I didnt get a for sure value....but irreplaceable is an OK answer for my 6$ stone LOL.

Now for the important question....

Should I mount it? He said I could mount it in gold for about 1k (because of the amount of gold it would take just for the head) or sterling for 200$. I would go with sterling if I was to mount it, because I cant afford 1000$ just for a mount.

Or should I keep it safe in its soft littlle tissue/baggie home away from sharp corners and the dangers of the world.

Wuddya think?

 

[fierypyropixy]

Date: 11/11/2009 3:21:57 PM
Author:Tropicgal10
I have a jewler who I have taken quite a few of my stones to. I took it to him and he was shocked at its size...he said it is deffinately natural, and weighed it in at 75.5cts.


I couldnt give me a value though because he has never seen one that large. He called his gemologist buddy and gave a description over the phone. His friend said an ametrine that size is irreplaceable. He said though, larger ametrine stones usually run 30$/ct. He said about 2k would be the appraised insured value, but if I lost it, I prolly wouldnt find another one no matter what the price.


So I guess thats good! I didnt get a for sure value....but irreplaceable is an OK answer for my 6$ stone LOL.


Now for the important question....


Should I mount it? He said I could mount it in gold for about 1k (because of the amount of gold it would take just for the head) or sterling for 200$. I would go with sterling if I was to mount it, because I cant afford 1000$ just for a mount.


Or should I keep it safe in its soft littlle tissue/baggie home away from sharp corners and the dangers of the world.


Wuddya think?

Nice! Hmm, it depends on your personality -- I''m really protective of my things, and freak out if I accidentally bump into anything with a gemstone in a ring, so one part of me says for that sort of value and it being irreplaceable, you''d want to keep it display only.

Then, of course, the other part of me says . . . but . . . that''s no way to really get ENJOYMENT out of your gemstones . . . so do you value the stone more as a rarity, or as an adornment?

 

[RockHugger]

See I am the same as you. I am also super protective of my stones. NONE of them are mounted. They are stored safe in their jars.
But Id like to show it off....and I hate to have it all hidden away. I will have to think about it a bit. I start to think of having it set, then I imagine bumping it into something and cracking in half....*shiver*. Oh the delema...

 

[fierypyropixy]

The benefit of having it set as a pendant, though, would be having it a lot more protected than a ring. That could be a good compromise. And I would not want a sterling ring (I turn it green in five seconds!) but for a pendant, sterling probably wouldn''t be an issue.

 

[fierypyropixy]

Oh, too, and if you were thinking of going with sterling, with that quote the jeweler gave you, you might also consider Julia Kay Taylor on Etsy. She works a lot with sterling/argentium and her prices may be close to your jeweler''s. Just for some variety of choice.

 

[oddoneout]

That''s huge. What luck to have such a good return on your money. I''d be afraid of it getting ruined if it was mounted and besides it would be huge to wear. But it would be a shame to have it tucked away out of sight. I understand your dilemma.

 

[jstarfireb]

Well, you and I are a little different, considering I can''t just let gems sit around unmounted. I mount and wear them as soon as I buy them! So I would of course mount it, but not in a ring (too big). I think a pendant would be a wonderful choice.

 

[SB621]

+1 for using JKT on esty. She is fantastic!

 

[RockHugger]

HAHA I dont think it could be a ring...could you imagine? It would tip me over. I would do pendent if anything. I will check out the Etsy. I don tknow how I would feel about shipping it to someone though...

What to do what to do...

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 11/11/2009 6:35:29 PM
Author: Tropicgal10
HAHA I dont think it could be a ring...could you imagine? It would tip me over. I would do pendent if anything. I will check out the Etsy. I don tknow how I would feel about shipping it to someone though...


What to do what to do...

Julia has received many very valuable gem stones and also diamonds from PS''ers to be set.
She is completely trust worthy.

I am like Jstar and like to wear all my stones - so normally would encourage you to set it.
However, it seems as a person who has mentioned you don''t set any of your stones, I would lean toward getting a nice lil display case for it and admire/play with it unset and keep it safe (If it really is irreplaceable as you were told.)

 

[RockHugger]

There is a well known certified gemologist about an hour away from here. He actually does lab testing, and will give very official appraisals. I am thinking I am going to go to him next to get a deffinate answer on the value of this stone. All the jewelry stores refer to him for appraisals. May not be for a while though, as I know he isnt cheap.

Intill then though, we made the decision it will be staying safe in its little pouch. It would just break my heart if it hit something and snapped it. Not worth it to me.

Thanks for the ideas and opinions! I apprecieate it!

 

[jstarfireb]

Great! I was thinking after reading your other thread that while this stone is gorgeous, there are many more in your collection that I would set before it (mainly due to size). Whatever you do, enjoy it!

 

[morecarats]

Date: 11/11/2009 3:21:57 PM
Author:Tropicgal10
I have a jewler who I have taken quite a few of my stones to. I took it to him and he was shocked at its size...he said it is deffinately natural, and weighed it in at 75.5cts.

I couldnt give me a value though because he has never seen one that large. He called his gemologist buddy and gave a description over the phone. His friend said an ametrine that size is irreplaceable. He said though, larger ametrine stones usually run 30$/ct. He said about 2k would be the appraised insured value, but if I lost it, I prolly wouldnt find another one no matter what the price.

So I guess thats good! I didnt get a for sure value....but irreplaceable is an OK answer for my 6$ stone LOL.

Now for the important question....

Should I mount it? He said I could mount it in gold for about 1k (because of the amount of gold it would take just for the head) or sterling for 200$. I would go with sterling if I was to mount it, because I cant afford 1000$ just for a mount.

Or should I keep it safe in its soft littlle tissue/baggie home away from sharp corners and the dangers of the world.

Wuddya think?

Did your jeweler offer you $2K for your ametrine? I notice that are a lot of ametrine over 50 carats being offered on eBay for attractive prices (usually under $20). You could make some good money reselling these.

 

[RockHugger]

Alot of them are synthetic. Thats why I dont buy ametrines (or really any stone that can be made in a lab) on ebay, inless I have delt with the dealer before. You can usually tell a synthetic ametrine right away. A VERY sharp color split, very deep colors (can be real, but if dirt cheap, doubt it), and alot of them are blue/green/grey/white or some other crazy color combo. Nature doesnt make those. Coupled with a low price, they are synthetic. The dealers over in thialand know what they are selling....and you usually wont get an amazing deal or treasure from them (I am a little bitter....been scammed a few times with tanzanites). Synthetics are pretty much costume jewelry, and can come in HUGE sizes...but are pretty much worthless value wise. Alot of those stones (I have looked at them also) are synthetic, and I am sure if I bought one it would RI as 1.53-1.54 (hydrothermal quartz). I just t hink I was super lucky running across mine when I did. It made me look again for some other hidden treasures, but no avail. Trust me, if ebay was full of 50ct natural stones, I would have bought them all up and resold em .

I have wrote a couple sellers who were selling green/blue ametrine as natural from bolivia telling them nature doesnt make these colors. They wrote me back saying they were natural...yadda yadda yadda. I have an tropical island in antartica!

Anywho.... no he didnt offer to buy it from me. He knows I collect them. Plus he prolly wouldnt have bought it anyway because he has no market for a 75ct ametrine.

 

[morecarats]

Yes, if the price is very low it is probably a good indication that the stone is synthetic.

If you don''t mind me asking, how much did you pay for your 75 ct ametrine?

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 11/12/2009 12:01:35 AM
Author: Tropicgal10
Alot of those stones (I have looked at them also) are synthetic, and I am sure if I bought one it would RI as 1.53-1.54 (hydrothermal quartz).

I''ve been testing quartz for many years now. Lab-made hydrothermal quartz has exactly the same refractive index and other properties as natural quartz, including ametrine. The only sure test has to do with twinning and a gem lab is required for that test. While there''s abundant synthetic quartz of all varieties on the market, you can''t ID it just with RI or by eye.

This piece of natural rough Anahi ametrine weighs 195 ct. and is clean as a whistle. I have several others close to it in size/color/clarity.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

 

[ma re]

Would setting it in sterling make you happy and make you want to wear it? If the answer is no, I''d wait untill you can afford the right setting, cause I''m not crazy about the idea of setting a valuable stone as this in just about anything. Pendant would be an obvious choice, but it could also go in a brooch, bracelet...hairpin...tiara...

 

[morecarats]

Hydrothermal quartz has the same RI as natural quartz because it is, after all, real quartz.

Brazil-law twinning is a very good indicator of natural quartz, but it is not conclusive, since synthetic quartz can be grown that displays twinning. Here is reference to the article by John Koivula on the topic:

http://gia.metapress.com/content/b227p04207771121/

The best labs use a combination of traditional analysis and advanced instruments to reach a definitive conclusion about a quartz sample. The traditional analysis looks for distinctive "breadcrumb" inclusions left by the seed crystal used to grow synthetic quartz; color zoning usually found only in natural quartz, and the presence of Brazil twinning which is typical of natural quartz crystals. Then infrared spectroscopy is used to graph the wavelengths of infrared light that the quartz absorbs. Synthetic and natural quartz usually exhibit distinctive patterns of absorption.

The idea that the original poster could take her sample to her local jeweller who was "sure" that it was natural ametrine is, unfortunately, quite absurd. I have taken many quartz samples to gem labs who were unable to definitively identify them as natural or synthetic. It takes some serious and time-consuming (and often expensive) work by highly-trained gemologists to determine whether a given quartz sample is natural.

 

[RockHugger]

HAHA at the Tiara! My mom has mentioned that!

As for the jewler, we looked under a 50x scope for the 'bread crumb' inclusions mentioned no 'nail' looking inclusions or raindrop inclusions also seen in synthetics. None of that, but there were natural inclusions. There was some Small feathering inclusions, and a veil inclusion. It has natural color zoning as well....not the flat colors and sharp change. Between the both of us looking at it, I am very happy with the results....Enough so, that I dont need to ship it some expensive lab to be tested. I have looked at alot of stones under scopes and I am very confident in identifying lab and natural. Havnt been wrong yet. As for RI testing, I am new to that...I bought it as a convienence so I can quickly test stones I get that have no synthetic concern.

Not everything has to be scientifically sampled, tested, and stamped with a GIA card to be loved, thank you! Nothing you can say can burst my big ametrine bubble!

 

[RockHugger]

Cool! And what do you sell those bigguns cut for?

 

[chrono]

MoreCarats,
Since she purchased the ametrine for a grand total of $6, I don’t think it’s worth sending the stone out to be tested or verified.

 

[RockHugger]

ditto. I am very happy with my results. I highly doubt they would make a synthetic anyway with natural looking inclusions. What would be the point.

 

[LD]

Date: 11/12/2009 9:57:35 AM
Author: Tropicgal10
ditto. I am very happy with my results. I highly doubt they would make a synthetic anyway with natural looking inclusions. What would be the point.

Unfortunately more and more synthetics have natural looking inclusions.

It''s becoming virtually impossible to tell real -v- synthetic using just a loupe. Gone are those days.

 

[RockHugger]

The places that make synthetic stones say they offer full disclosure for their stones....then why would they make included stones for any other reason but to scam someone into thinking they are real? Hmm?

Thank goodness they dont have synthetic tanzanites yet...I mainly collect those, and they are easy to tell with a simple RI check (and coating treatments are easy to tell under a scope). I think I will stop buying them when they come out with a synthetic.

 

[LD]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:25:13 AM
Author: Tropicgal10
The places that make synthetic stones say they offer full disclosure for their stones....then why would they make included stones for any other reason but to scam someone into thinking they are real? Hmm?

Thank goodness they dont have synthetic tanzanites yet...I mainly collect those, and they are easy to tell with a simple RI check (and coating treatments are easy to tell under a scope). I think I will stop buying them when they come out with a synthetic.

There are so many unscrupulous sellers who will pass one gem off as another, sell synthetics as natural and, if you take a look at the recent Emerald thread you''ll see an Emerald (with inclusions) that turned out to be lab grown. General rule of thumb, if you''re paying a small amount, you''ll get what you pay for. Of course there ARE exceptions but you need to ask yourself why somebody would sell a natural Ametrine of that size for $6 if a quick internet search would show that this gem over X carats is rare? I do hope that it is real but I always err on the side of caution and presume something isn''t until proven otherwise (that way I may get a nice surprise rather than a huge disappointment).

In terms of synthetic tanzanite, I''m not 100% sure but I believe they have now come up with a synthetic version! I seem to recall there was an article on this somewhere and that it made an appearance in Thailand about 18 months ago. Maybe Morecarats knows about this?

 

[chrono]

Unfortunately, I’m with LD in this. I know there are synthetics with inclusions in the current market. However, for $6, it isn’t worth verification; just enjoy it for its appearance with the thought that it is extremely possible to be a synthetic ametrine.

 

[RockHugger]

Honestly when I bought it, I 100% was expecting a lab created stone....wansnt thinking I was buying a real one for that price. But after scoping it and seeing the micro inclusions and the lack of lab inclusions I do honestly think its real. As for the guy selling it...he looked from his other items like he was selling half his house. Wasnt a dealer, just some guy trying to make some extra cash. So I dunno what he was thinking. Either way, I am happy with it. Even the small chance that it is lab, 6$ is still a good price for such a cool looking rock.

 

[LD]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:58:28 AM
Author: Tropicgal10
Honestly when I bought it, I 100% was expecting a lab created stone....wansnt thinking I was buying a real one for that price. But after scoping it and seeing the micro inclusions and the lack of lab inclusions I do honestly think its real. As for the guy selling it...he looked from his other items like he was selling half his house. Wasnt a dealer, just some guy trying to make some extra cash. So I dunno what he was thinking. Either way, I am happy with it. Even the small chance that it is lab, 6$ is still a good price for such a cool looking rock.

I agree and the most important thing is that you love it.

 

[RockHugger]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:46:55 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 11/12/2009 11:25:13 AM
Author: Tropicgal10
The places that make synthetic stones say they offer full disclosure for their stones....then why would they make included stones for any other reason but to scam someone into thinking they are real? Hmm?

Thank goodness they dont have synthetic tanzanites yet...I mainly collect those, and they are easy to tell with a simple RI check (and coating treatments are easy to tell under a scope). I think I will stop buying them when they come out with a synthetic.

There are so many unscrupulous sellers who will pass one gem off as another, sell synthetics as natural and, if you take a look at the recent Emerald thread you''ll see an Emerald (with inclusions) that turned out to be lab grown. General rule of thumb, if you''re paying a small amount, you''ll get what you pay for. Of course there ARE exceptions but you need to ask yourself why somebody would sell a natural Ametrine of that size for $6 if a quick internet search would show that this gem over X carats is rare? I do hope that it is real but I always err on the side of caution and presume something isn''t until proven otherwise (that way I may get a nice surprise rather than a huge disappointment).

In terms of synthetic tanzanite, I''m not 100% sure but I believe they have now come up with a synthetic version! I seem to recall there was an article on this somewhere and that it made an appearance in Thailand about 18 months ago. Maybe Morecarats knows about this?

I have been keeping up on the tanzie market and news and havnt heard of any actual synthetic (simulant yes) with the same chemical makeup and RI as tanzie. But if I am wrong, and someone knows of one I would be happy to see the article!

 

[LD]

You might be right about Tanzanite not being synthesized but Forsterite is very close (slightly lower) in RI to Tanzanite although it''s birefringence is much higher than Tanzanite. Look at this photo - I wonder how many unsuspecting Tanzanite buyers have bought this?