The new Wittelsbach-Graff

[LD]

Date: 1/4/2010 8:42:28 AM
Author: Richard W. Wise
TL,

The picture caption does say that but Michael looked at it carefully and believes it is the un recut stone. I don''t believe the Smithsonian would alter the image, but would Graff? Believe me it has been color corrected, the stone itself looks more like a pale aquamarine.

The Hammid alexandrite was interesting, but for another reason (it was cut from rough). For years, everyone used that image as an example of a fine Russian alexandrite. That image was published everywhere. I recall being quite frustrated trying to find the mythical ruby red/emerald green alexandrite. Despite my long search I never did. I was in Brazil when the Hematatita Alexandrite strike was going full bore but nothing really came close. Then when I purchased the image for Secrets, I had a conversation with Tino Hammid and he admitted that the stone had been color corrected. So, it was like a search for the Holy Grail.

So, my friends beware of Englishmen bearing images, If you are looking for a blue diamond that looks like the Wittelsbach in the image at the beginning of this post you will be looking for something that does not exist.

Thank you thank you thank you. As a long time collector of Alexandrite I have seen literally hundreds of them and have never ever seen one change to a ruby red. To me it''s always been a chase (albeit a slow one) to find one that has that property. I''ve found some that are very burgundy but never red! I can now stop looking safe in the knowledge that I have some fine Alexandrites and the elusive red has been colour corrected!!!

 

[T L]

Date: 1/4/2010 5:20:40 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 1/4/2010 8:42:28 AM
Author: Richard W. Wise
TL,

The picture caption does say that but Michael looked at it carefully and believes it is the un recut stone. I don't believe the Smithsonian would alter the image, but would Graff? Believe me it has been color corrected, the stone itself looks more like a pale aquamarine.

The Hammid alexandrite was interesting, but for another reason (it was cut from rough). For years, everyone used that image as an example of a fine Russian alexandrite. That image was published everywhere. I recall being quite frustrated trying to find the mythical ruby red/emerald green alexandrite. Despite my long search I never did. I was in Brazil when the Hematatita Alexandrite strike was going full bore but nothing really came close. Then when I purchased the image for Secrets, I had a conversation with Tino Hammid and he admitted that the stone had been color corrected. So, it was like a search for the Holy Grail.

So, my friends beware of Englishmen bearing images, If you are looking for a blue diamond that looks like the Wittelsbach in the image at the beginning of this post you will be looking for something that does not exist.

Thank you thank you thank you. As a long time collector of Alexandrite I have seen literally hundreds of them and have never ever seen one change to a ruby red. To me it's always been a chase (albeit a slow one) to find one that has that property. I've found some that are very burgundy but never red! I can now stop looking safe in the knowledge that I have some fine Alexandrites and the elusive red has been colour corrected!!!

I heard that photo was color corrected as well. It is a famous photo though. For those of you that don't know what photo we're talking about.

 

[Imdanny]

Disgraceful.

 

[Largosmom]

Well, if it is to be on display at the Smithsonian this year, perhaps someone can capture a real photo if it is allowed.

Laura

 

[chrono]

I don’t understand the photoshopping or colour correcting of these famous gems. Why? I mean, people can see it for themselves when they are on display so why the fakery? I can understand making adjustments to make the stone look like the real thing because it isn’t easy to photograph gemstones but not to improve upon its nature given colour.

 

[LD]

Totally agree Chrono.

In terms of the Hammid Alex though, I don''t believe this has ever been on display so the colour change was not actually witnessed. I''d love to see it but I doubt it will go on display

If it does, I''ll be the first booking a plane ticket, unless it comes to the UK of course!

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/4/2010 8:31:10 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 1/4/2010 5:20:40 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 1/4/2010 8:42:28 AM
Author: Richard W. Wise
TL,

The picture caption does say that but Michael looked at it carefully and believes it is the un recut stone. I don't believe the Smithsonian would alter the image, but would Graff? Believe me it has been color corrected, the stone itself looks more like a pale aquamarine.

The Hammid alexandrite was interesting, but for another reason (it was cut from rough). For years, everyone used that image as an example of a fine Russian alexandrite. That image was published everywhere. I recall being quite frustrated trying to find the mythical ruby red/emerald green alexandrite. Despite my long search I never did. I was in Brazil when the Hematatita Alexandrite strike was going full bore but nothing really came close. Then when I purchased the image for Secrets, I had a conversation with Tino Hammid and he admitted that the stone had been color corrected. So, it was like a search for the Holy Grail.

So, my friends beware of Englishmen bearing images, If you are looking for a blue diamond that looks like the Wittelsbach in the image at the beginning of this post you will be looking for something that does not exist.

Thank you thank you thank you. As a long time collector of Alexandrite I have seen literally hundreds of them and have never ever seen one change to a ruby red. To me it's always been a chase (albeit a slow one) to find one that has that property. I've found some that are very burgundy but never red! I can now stop looking safe in the knowledge that I have some fine Alexandrites and the elusive red has been colour corrected!!!

I heard that photo was color corrected as well. It is a famous photo though. For those of you that don't know what photo we're talking about.

But at least this one is raspberry-red, the one in Richard's book is green-to-plain red. I wonder if it was photoshopped, or the same effect could be achieved by playing with the lighting...

Has either of you ever seen an old, pre-revolutionary Russian alexandrite? The mines ran out by the end of the 19th century, but after the revolution most of Russian nobility flew abroad and sold their gems for tokens! (the prices were driven down by so many of them selling their collections simultaneously). But these gems should still exist. Has anyone really seen them? Was the color different?

I am off on a tangent here, but "alexandrite" makes me salivate...

 

[LD]

Yes. Russian material was still available several years ago (although much more difficult to find). Of course, provenance needs to be proven but in all honesty there was good AND bad Russian Alex - just the same as from Brazil, India etc. Personally, I''ve seen better examples from other parts of the world than the Russian ones I''ve seen. I may just have seen the wrong ones! I own several Russians but they''re not spectacular.

 

[T L]

I now admit, I have a tiny 20 pointer supposedly Russian alex. It is like the Hammid photo. It goes from green to raspberry red. I purchased it many years ago from a serious rock hunter, collector, and fossil dealer.

 

[Sagebrush]

The latest from The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/fashion/07DIAMONDS.html

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Date: 1/7/2010 8:32:20 AM
Author: Richard W. Wise
The latest from The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/fashion/07DIAMONDS.html

Fixed the link

Now I am off to read.

 

[T L]

I like how the article calls the Hope a more "drab stone."

Thanks for the article Richard, very interesting read.

BTW, here''s a painting of the little princess that the diamond was purchased for. I can''t imagine letting my little girl going around wearing the Whittelsbach.

Oh how times have changed.

The infanta Margarita Teresa of Spain (circa 1659).

 

[Sagebrush]

All,

Not sure why I can''t seem to post a link. Any wisdom? I selected the text then pasted it into the window opened by clicking the chain link, so what am I doing wrong.

Russian Alexandrite is one of the great misunderstandings. Russian is no better than Brazilian. The ruby red/emerald green color change is something of a myth. The late great gemologist Max Bauer who wrote at the end of the 19th Century and saw a great many Russian stones held that the Sri Lankan stones were of better quality and compared the color to amethyst by night and emerald by day though I have never seen an "emerald" at least not a fine emerald green in any stone.

I like the African stones better because unlike the Brazilian they often exhibit a high degree of transparency or "crystal."

Cheers,

 

[LD]

Date: 1/7/2010 9:44:29 AM
Author: Richard W. Wise
All,

Not sure why I can''t seem to post a link. Any wisdom? I selected the text then pasted it into the window opened by clicking the chain link, so what am I doing wrong.

Russian Alexandrite is one of the great misunderstandings. Russian is no better than Brazilian. The ruby red/emerald green color change is something of a myth. The late great gemologist Max Bauer who wrote at the end of the 19th Century and saw a great many Russian stones held that the Sri Lankan stones were of better quality and compared the color to amethyst by night and emerald by day though I have never seen an ''emerald'' at least not a fine emerald green in any stone.

I like the African stones better because unlike the Brazilian they often exhibit a high degree of transparency or ''crystal.''

Cheers,

Richard your observations are very interesting and I would agree (and did so earlier in this thread)! However, I do have two Alexandrites that are very "emerald" like - obviously there are differences but they are probably nearer to an emerald than my Tsavorites. In fact I was in a jewellers (high end jewellers) and was actually asked if the ring I had on was an emerald. Now if only I could ever capture the "green" of the Alex as I see it with my eyes, I would be happy to show you but I/my camera are totally incapable of photographing the green!

 

[T L]

Date: 1/7/2010 9:49:32 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 1/7/2010 9:44:29 AM
Author: Richard W. Wise
All,

Not sure why I can't seem to post a link. Any wisdom? I selected the text then pasted it into the window opened by clicking the chain link, so what am I doing wrong.

Russian Alexandrite is one of the great misunderstandings. Russian is no better than Brazilian. The ruby red/emerald green color change is something of a myth. The late great gemologist Max Bauer who wrote at the end of the 19th Century and saw a great many Russian stones held that the Sri Lankan stones were of better quality and compared the color to amethyst by night and emerald by day though I have never seen an 'emerald' at least not a fine emerald green in any stone.

I like the African stones better because unlike the Brazilian they often exhibit a high degree of transparency or 'crystal.'

Cheers,

Richard your observations are very interesting and I would agree (and did so earlier in this thread)! However, I do have two Alexandrites that are very 'emerald' like - obviously there are differences but they are probably nearer to an emerald than my Tsavorites. In fact I was in a jewellers (high end jewellers) and was actually asked if the ring I had on was an emerald. Now if only I could ever capture the 'green' of the Alex as I see it with my eyes, I would be happy to show you but I/my camera are totally incapable of photographing the green!

Wow, sounds like a very rare and fine alexandrite you have LD!!

BTW, getting back to the topic of the Whittelsbach. Does anyone know who the owner was just prior to the Graff purchase? I heard it was in an obscure private collection, but the diamond wasn't seen for years until now. Just curious.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/7/2010 9:33:48 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
I like how the article calls the Hope a more 'drab stone.'

Thanks for the article Richard, very interesting read.

BTW, here's a painting of the little princess that the diamond was purchased for. I can't imagine letting my little girl going around wearing the Whittelsbach.

Oh how times have changed.

The infanta Margarita Teresa of Spain (circa 1659).

Is it a part of "the Meninas" by Velasquez?

Still think it was an audacious decision to rename it Wittelsbach-Graff's diamond. Stones can be very unlucky, and the dynasty was known for bad luck even among other European dynasties.

Just imagine, Mr. Graff buying Venus of Milo. Do you think the first thing he would do would be to give her arms? And rename her Venus of Milo-Graff?

 

[T L]

Date: 1/7/2010 12:14:41 PM
Author: crasru

Date: 1/7/2010 9:33:48 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
I like how the article calls the Hope a more 'drab stone.'

Thanks for the article Richard, very interesting read.

BTW, here's a painting of the little princess that the diamond was purchased for. I can't imagine letting my little girl going around wearing the Whittelsbach.

Oh how times have changed.

The infanta Margarita Teresa of Spain (circa 1659).

Is it a part of 'the Meninas' by Velasquez?

Still think it was an audacious decision to rename it Wittelsbach-Graff's diamond. Stones can be very unlucky, and the dynasty was known for bad luck even among other European dynasties.

Just imagine, Mr. Graff buying Venus of Milo. Do you think the first thing he would do would be to give it arms? And rename her Venus of Milo-Graff?

I'm not sure of the painting name, but I do know that Velazquez did paint several portraits of her. Poor girl, died at 21, after having SIX children, and being married off at 15 to her hideous uncle. I'm actually glad times have changed!! The Whittelsbach was part of her dowry to her husband King Leopold.

That's funny about the Venus d'Milo comment. Maybe he can buy the Mona Lisa and paint her a new hairstyle.

ETA: No this is not eht Meninas by Valezquez, but a solitary portrait. The Meninas had her parents in that painting and Valezquez looking on at her in a mirror. That's his most famous painting.

 

[Arkteia]

Richard, could it simply be that rubies that came to Russia were more pink than red? I do not think Russia produced its own rubies, and it did not trade with Burma, so the best source of rubies could be India. I never heard the tern, "pigeon blood" in Russia. Re. Russian emeralds are clean but are not even close to Colombian ones.

Are we just implying that alexes were red as finest Burmese rubies and green as Colombian ones because these are the gems we authomatically think of? Red-and green flag colors do not mean much to me, Russians are poets and use flowery comparisons, but if you read about someone's "green eyes, like Iranian sick turquoise", would you automatically imply that the girl really has drab-green eyes with brown spiderwebs?

I suspect that if I eventually buy a "neon-blue" paraiba I am in for disappointment because it will not fluoresce at night as my clock does.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/4/2010 10:21:37 PM
Author: Largosmom
Well, if it is to be on display at the Smithsonian this year, perhaps someone can capture a real photo if it is allowed.

Laura

Don''t worry, there will be tons of photos and videos of it surfacing everywhere. I''m actually more interested in seeing a video. I think they better capture the diamonds luster than a stationary photo. There''s photos and videos of the Hope, so I don''t see why not.

 

[T L]

An interesting tidbit of news I found today on the Whittelsbach-Graff

Famous Blue Diamonds - Not Related After All

The world famous Hope Diamond and Wittelsbach-Graff Diamond were not cut from the same stone, a National Gem Collection statement said. The latter is part of a Smithsonian Institution collection.

According a statement by Jeffrey Post, the National Gem Collection''s curator, quoted by the Seattle Times, "There is an uncanny resemblance (between the blue diamonds), but they are different. They are not part of the same crystal or rough."

The two blue diamonds were examined under a variety of microscopes and lights at the Smithsonian to try and solve the centuries-old mystery of their possible common origin. The Hope Diamond weighs 45.52 carats and the Wittelsbach-Graff Diamond weighs 31.06 carats. Both gemstones have a deep blue color.

The National Gem Collection had the opportunity to probe the diamonds after the Wittelsbach-Graff Diamond, which has not been on public display for more than 50 years, was lent to the Smithsonian for display, alongside the Hope Diamond.

"The tests supported the fact that they are extremely similar, in their color, in the way they phosphoresce. It''s amazingly similar," Post said, adding that at the same time, the differences between the two blue diamonds became apparent under a diamond-view microscope. "The detailed pattern is different in the two," he said.

 

[gsellis]

I have seen good pictures of before and after on the W-G. Before, it was ugly. It looked like a piece of tanzanite that was in a ring in someone's pocket for years. It was scratched to distraction. It was more gray than blue and the huge culet was so obvious because of the poor performance. Historical, yes, but it was still ugly.

Leaving the culet almost as is is why it only lost just over 4 cts. The moved it to IF... IF for a stone so big. That is a huge wow. And the gray is gone (bet some of the polishing did a good bit on that too.) My wife and I are going to try to see it at the Natural History museum before it goes back in the vault. And of course, the Hope in its new dress.

 

[T L]

Where have you seen the "after" pictures. I didn''t think it was unveiled yet.

 

[gsellis]

The NHM put a basic one up here... http://www.mnh.si.edu/exhibits/ The exhibit is open and I am trying to remember where I saw another.

Update - here you go. http://newsdesk.si.edu/images_full/images/museums/nmnh/Wittelsbach_diamond/wittelsbach_front_v2.jpg

Another http://newsdesk.si.edu/images_full/images/museums/nmnh/Wittelsbach_Press_Conference/Wittelsbach_2009_49652.jpg

 

[T L]

THanks, I hadn't realized the exhibit opened. Here's the only high-res photo I could find, but I'm not sure if this is real or the mock-up.

http://newsdesk.si.edu/images_full/images/museums/nmnh/Wittelsbach_diamond/wittelsbach_front_v2.jpg

ETA: I guess you and I found the same website at the same time. Thanks for the links!! Much appreciated.

 

[Arcadian]

Date: 1/5/2010 9:13:19 AM
Author: Chrono
I don’t understand the photoshopping or colour correcting of these famous gems. Why? I mean, people can see it for themselves when they are on display so why the fakery? I can understand making adjustments to make the stone look like the real thing because it isn’t easy to photograph gemstones but not to improve upon its nature given colour.

last year I did a photoshoot (model, not stones) and I can tell you that people today are so used to photoshop and the idea of perfection its absolutely ridiculous. They don't care that it dosen't look exactly like the person, trust me.

I did the job they wanted, I even gave them the 'look' they were after with all the post processing I had to do, but you know, in retrospect after the fact, I felt it was a huge insult not only to the model, but also to the photographer(me).

People want perfection they want the unattainable, and by golly, they'll find it one way or anther it seems.


-A

 

[ma re]

So they''re not cousins after all; thnx TL for an interesting bit of a story!

 

[Stone Hunter]

Date: 1/4/2010 1:11:48 PM
Author: crasru

Date: 1/4/2010 12:38:06 AM
Author: haagen_dazs

Date: 1/2/2010 1:15:02 AM
Author: Hest88
Ugh, me no likey. Yuck. And, I agree, even if it had improved immeasurably in appearance, there''s something terribly wrong with re-cutting such a historical stone.

maybe Graff recut the diamond so that he can get the diamond to be named after him too =p

I vaguely remembered that Wittelsbach family was not too happy. Browsed the Wikipedia, and lo and behold, the family history appeared to be loaded with mental illness. The dynasty did not fare too well. Ludwig II of Bavaria is well-known, but it seems that schizophrenia was rampant in the family since the 15th century. Maybe it is better to recut and rename the stone?

I think it does damage the historical value of the stone to recut it. I don''t like the idea of removing the history from the stone. We''ll have to wait to see what the recut really looks like.

 

[T L]

The recut is already unveiled. There are pictures of it in some of the above links.

 

[T L]

Here''s the unveiled picture of the recut.

 

[cellentani]

Oh, I hadn''t realized this was at the Smithsonian - I live nearby, so maybe I''ll have to check this out! Hmmm, not doing anything on Monday.....