the best material is cut close to the mine : WHY?

[haagen_dazs]

I read that "the best material is cut close to the mine and a lot of the rest is shipped to cutting factories."

Its like 3am and I cannot and dont want to speculate.
Could someone tell me why this is so?

 

[arjunajane]

haagen, can you please try to restrict to a couple questions per thread instead of one?
It just makes the board run a lil smoother/less clogged - thankyou!

And although it''s fine to ask, a number of the questions you''re asking could be rather easily answered with a search.
In case you weren''t aware (I wasn''t until recently) - you can click on the search button (next to personal section, posted today etc), and filter by forum, author, date etc.
Very handy!

cheers!

 

[beaujolais]

I think that is a great question. I haven't heard this but could understand. Is it that they put the mine near the more prime source/better material? Hoping someone with some knowledge on this will come around.

I did a search on this and nothing came up.

 

[morecarats]

Date: 10/23/2009 3:22:09 AM
Author:haagen_dazs
I read that ''the best material is cut close to the mine and a lot of the rest is shipped to cutting factories.''

Its like 3am and I cannot and dont want to speculate.
Could someone tell me why this is so?

Many countries that are a major sources for colored gemstones -- such as Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique, Madagascar, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and so on -- have very little expertise in gemstone cutting. These countries ship virtually all their rough gemstones to cutting centers like Thailand. It is a major economic and political issue in the mining countries, since the revenue they get from selling the rough material is only a small fraction of the selling price of the cut and polished gemstone.

 

[onvacation]

Hmm. Maybe it's a myth that stems from the belief of miners keeping the best rough for themselves? I would like to know more about this too.

AJ, though I understand your concern, and wholeheartedly agree that the search function should be used before asking lotsa questions, I think in this case HD's questions are different enough in nature to require distinct threads. I for one would not want all these questions bundled up into one thread.

Mark, in the future, it may help if you could include a citation for the sources of your interesting tidbits!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 10/23/2009 4:17:08 AM
Author: onvacation
Hmm. Maybe it's a myth that stems from the belief of miners keeping the best rough for themselves? I would like to know more about this too.


AJ, though I understand your concern, and wholeheartedly agree that the search function should be used before asking lotsa questions, I think in this case HD's questions are different enough in nature to require distinct threads. I for one would not want all these questions bundled up into one thread.


Mark, in the future, it may help if you could include a citation for the sources of your interesting tidbits!

onvacation - I wasn't necessarily suggesting Haagen put a whole lot of completely distinct topics in one thread..Just trying to help a newbie out is all with the tip on the search function - if Haagen already knows about the search function and prefers to ask before he looks, fair enough!
I just prefer to see the board kept "cleaner" - and of course that's just my personal preference and I have to deal with it, lol

I do agree that Haagen, if you could link us back to where you read your lead topic, it may help the folk trying to answer (good point onvacation).

 

[morecarats]

Date: 10/23/2009 3:49:57 AM
Author: sonomacounty
I think that is a great question. I haven''t heard this but could understand. Is it that they put the mine near the more prime source/better material? Hoping someone with some knowledge on this will come around.

I did a search on this and nothing came up.

I thnk you''re on to something here. In the ideal case you want to put the mine right where the gemstones are. In fact if there are no gemstones there they don''t call it a "mine." They call it a "hole."

 

[chrono]

Mark,
That is also my understanding and the reason is that the mine owners know that those fine material will sell right away, so why not have it cut right at the source instead of spending $$ having it shipped somewhere else to have it cut? The more hands it passes through, the less the profits for the mine owners.

Sonoma,
I think it’s the other way round; the mines are set up near the source of rough, or hole in the ground, as MoreCarats described it more accurately. It doesn’t matter that what comes out of the ground is good or bad, no one can predict the quality of the gemstone that is mined.

 

[morecarats]

Folks, this idea of the best material being cut right at the mine doesn''t make any sense at all.

First of all, the mines are almost always out in some remote area. The expert cutters are in town or, very often, in another country entirely.

If you dig a big gemmy tsavorite or sapphire out of the ground, you don''t know how good it is until it''s been evaluated by someone who has a lot of experience and really knows what they''re doing. The last thing you want to do with a gem that might potentially be worth $100k (or $1 million) is have someone start hacking away at it out in the bush. You want to get it in the hands of the best cutter you can find and maximize your profit.

 

[chrono]

MoreCarats,
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think you are taking the “cut right at the mine” too literally. Obviously it is going to be cut in town but it is meant the closest town in the native country. I’m sure not all the rough is shipped to Thailand.

 

[morecarats]

Chrono, many of the mining countries would love to have a gem cutting industry. But there is hardly anything being cut outside of Thailand, Sri Lanka and India.

I have people from Tanzania and Mozambique calling me all the time asking me if they can send me some rough to have cut in Thailand for them. They simply can''t find any cutters where they live. There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of African traders here in Thailand whose job it is to bring rough stone to Thailand.

Madagascar is trying to foster a home-grown cutting industry, but they are just at the beginning. Even a lot of Sri Lankan material is cut in Thailand because it is sent here for treatment first.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 10/23/2009 8:54:42 AM
Author: Chrono
MoreCarats,

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think you are taking the “cut right at the mine” too literally. Obviously it is going to be cut in town but it is meant the closest town in the native country. I’m sure not all the rough is shipped to Thailand.

Exactly, I''m positive we are not speaking of the actual miners cutting these stones at the site - that is rather absurd. Infact, Haagen did say "close to the mine", not "at the mine", let''s remember!

I am positive all the rough is not shipped to Asia - in fact, looking at the blogs of anyone like Peter Torraca, Gary Braun or Gene Flanigan who document their O/S trips to various areas and countries in Africa, it''s quite clear many of the gemmy stones are taken into the nearest "town" and cut by the local pro. There are numerous photos and comments on this process on said blogs.
I also think its a massive and unfair generalisation to say the mass-produced Asian cutting houses can do a better job than the local African cutter.

Of course, a large number are kept in the rough to sell the above mentioned adventurers

I think when we are discussing countries like THI, we are verging more on political/revenue issues surrounding gems like sapphire, rather than the actual crux of Haagen''s question;
And, just to throw that term out there again - basically, I would like to clarify Haagen''s question - Haagen, could you please elaborate, are you asking why the good stuff is cut in native cuts?
And if so, from what perspective are you approaching this?

I think some clarification would (again) assist those attempting to answer accurately

 

[morecarats]

I''m sure the odd stone is cut in the various mining countries.

I would maintain that the top stones are routinely sent abroad for cutting. But we should talk about specifics if this is going to be a useful discussion.

Here''s an example of one of the top tsavorite garnets found in East Africa. I think you''ll agree that this would count as an example of "the best material" as cited by the original poster:

http://www.multicolour.com/tsavorite/

 

[T L]

Date: 10/23/2009 9:37:52 AM
Author: morecarats
I''m sure the odd stone is cut in the various mining countries.

I would maintain that the top stones are routinely sent abroad for cutting. But we should talk about specifics if this is going to be a useful discussion.

Here''s an example of one of the top tsavorite garnets found in East Africa. I think you''ll agree that this would count as an example of ''the best material'' as cited by the original poster:

http://www.multicolour.com/tsavorite/

Wow - a GIA 4/5 to 4/6, sounds like my kind of tsavorite, not too dark, not too light, but vivid saturation. Sorry to get off topic.

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 10/23/2009 3:32:35 AM
Author: arjunajane
haagen, can you please try to restrict to a couple questions per thread instead of one?

Hi
Thank you for your friendly reminder.
I actually do not like to keep making new threads but one of the odd things about this forum is that the admin lock threads that are >3mths old.
Alot of the other forums I frequent do not do that.
That way I could just reply to an old thread to a question that had been posted.

I have been searching and reading alot of information online.
Just so happens I guess i did not chance on an answer to this question though.

I still love this community for helping me

Perhaps its because I am posted at 3-4am EST in the morning and all my postings seem to be bunched up opppz

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 10/23/2009 3:49:57 AM
Author: sonomacounty
I did a search on this and nothing came up.

exactly

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 10/23/2009 4:17:08 AM
Author: onvacation
I think in this case HD's questions are different enough in nature to require distinct threads. I for one would not want all these questions bundled up into one thread.


Mark, in the future, it may help if you could include a citation for the sources of your interesting tidbits!

Thanks!!

That quote was actually from a big time regular in the rocky forum storm aka Karl.

Another funny thing is that
If there was a private messaging function, i could email the person directly understanding why such a claim was made

The queer problem is that there is no PM function (and i do know why) and so the only way for me to get my questions answered is to BLAST the community a thread.

Thats why it seems like there are so many threads of the same information repeated over and over again since 2002. (thats how much reading I have been doing)

eg I bet the question of "Is heating and treatment bad? " was asked a thousand times.....

 

[haagen_dazs]

CITING THE SOURCE CLICK HERE

 

[haagen_dazs]

morecarats

are you located/based in thailand??

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 10/23/2009 6:54:13 AM
Author: arjunajane

I just prefer to see the board kept ''cleaner'' - and of course that''s just my personal preference and I have to deal with it, lol

.

I totally agree with you
Unfortunately (as I have explained) the board is set up to not allow for a clean board..oh wells

 

[chrono]

I remember seeing that stone and reading that article. G4/5 to 4/6 is the perfect combination in my book for a tsavorite.

 

[kas baby]

don''t some countries ban the export of rough? thus demanding that the gems be cut in the country of origin? that could be another reason

 

[Harriet]

1. Sri Lanka, for one, does not permit the exportation of rough (Kas Baby).
2. Controlling the supply chain protects revenue (Chrono). I know of at least two miners who have German-trained cutters on staff.

Mark,
No worries on the different threads.

 

[chrono]

Date: 10/23/2009 11:38:42 AM
Author: Harriet
1. Sri Lanka, for one, does not permit the exportation of rough (Kas Baby).
2. Controlling the supply chain protects revenue (Chrono). I know of at least two miners who have German-trained cutters on staff.

I only know of one.

 

[Harriet]

Heh heh. That''s why I''m called "Harriet," as in "Harriet the Spy."

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 10/23/2009 9:37:52 AM
Author: morecarats
I''m sure the odd stone is cut in the various mining countries.


I would maintain that the top stones are routinely sent abroad for cutting. But we should talk about specifics if this is going to be a useful discussion.

Agreed re the specifics.
which is why I asked Haagen to qualify his question above.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Date: 10/23/2009 10:16:13 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 10/23/2009 9:37:52 AM

Author: morecarats

I''m sure the odd stone is cut in the various mining countries.


I would maintain that the top stones are routinely sent abroad for cutting. But we should talk about specifics if this is going to be a useful discussion.


Here''s an example of one of the top tsavorite garnets found in East Africa. I think you''ll agree that this would count as an example of ''the best material'' as cited by the original poster:


http://www.multicolour.com/tsavorite/

Wow - a GIA 4/5 to 4/6, sounds like my kind of tsavorite, not too dark, not too light, but vivid saturation. Sorry to get off topic.

I think you and Chrono would find that tsavorite to be way tooo yellow for you taste. Looks to have a strong yellow on my very accurate screen.


While in Tanzania we saw a few people there using American made faceting machines. Many of the cuts I saw at one of the major gem dealers in Arusha were very good quality, much better than the typical Thailand cutting. However, much of the rough from Africa is bought by Thai''s and cut in Asia.

As far as being cut near the mine... this is pretty much what is going in around the mining areas I saw. This is about 1/4 mile away from the largest tanzanite mine outside.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/23/2009 11:37:51 PM
Author: PrecisionGem

Date: 10/23/2009 10:16:13 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 10/23/2009 9:37:52 AM

Author: morecarats

I'm sure the odd stone is cut in the various mining countries.


I would maintain that the top stones are routinely sent abroad for cutting. But we should talk about specifics if this is going to be a useful discussion.


Here's an example of one of the top tsavorite garnets found in East Africa. I think you'll agree that this would count as an example of 'the best material' as cited by the original poster:


http://www.multicolour.com/tsavorite/

Wow - a GIA 4/5 to 4/6, sounds like my kind of tsavorite, not too dark, not too light, but vivid saturation. Sorry to get off topic.

I think you and Chrono would find that tsavorite to be way tooo yellow for you taste. Looks to have a strong yellow on my very accurate screen.


While in Tanzania we saw a few people there using American made faceting machines. Many of the cuts I saw at one of the major gem dealers in Arusha were very good quality, much better than the typical Thailand cutting. However, much of the rough from Africa is bought by Thai's and cut in Asia.

As far as being cut near the mine... this is pretty much what is going in around the mining areas I saw. This is about 1/4 mile away from the largest tanzanite mine outside.

It does look too yellow, but I recently got scolded for commenting on color from photographs.

Thanks for noticing that Gene

, I thought it looked way too yellow, based on the photograph of course.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

They described that large tsav as "jello green", which to me implies a yellow modifier since I think of that color as an electric lime green.

Haha, Gene, I thought that was a picture of a two headed donkey at first!

 

[PrecisionGem]

To my taste, I would take a tsavorite a little lighter, which generally means a little yellow, than one that is too dark. You see some of these overly dark stones that look nice when flooded with light, but 90% are just too dark. The guy who traveled to see me from Kenya had a large tsavorite, that was just too dark, but a very nice color.

Here''s a picture of a cutter in Arusha, using a US made Facetron machine.